- 3 months ago
What happens when music, culture, and immigration laws collide? In this episode, Billboard On The Record sits down with Billboard’s Senior Editor, Latin Griselda Flores to unpack the stories shaking up Latin music today — from Trump’s immigration laws to Coachella’s lack of regional Mexican artists to Bad Bunny’s absence from U.S. stages. Griselda opens up about writing bold, sometimes polarizing pieces and how sharing uncomfortable conversations is changing the industry.
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00:00Welcome to On the Record, a new music business podcast from Billboard and Sickbird Productions.
00:05I'm your host, Kristen Robinson. I'm a senior correspondent here at Billboard, and each week
00:09on the show, I will be giving you a peek into the conversations that I'm having with executives,
00:14artists, and reporters all day, every day as part of my job here at Billboard.
00:18On today's show, I am very fortunate to be joined by Billboard's senior Latin editor,
00:22Griselda Flores, to talk through the impact that Trump administration policies have had
00:27on Latin musicians, fans, and concerts. You might have heard about the recent news that
00:32Bad Bunny is not planning to come to the U.S. on his next tour due to fears about potential
00:36ice raids at his shows, but that's just one of many stories that we'll talk about here
00:40today. As another example, Griselda is joining us remotely from her hometown of Chicago, where
00:45just months ago, the local Michelada festival, which featured big acts like Grupo Firme and
00:51Anita on its billing, were canceled due to uncertainty around artist visas in a, quote,
00:56rapidly changing political climate. All of this has had a sizable impact, both culturally
01:01and economically, on the Latin music business. And as Trump's second term progresses, it shows
01:06no signs of slowing down. So let's go ahead and bring in the true expert on this topic.
01:10She's been reporting on it all year. Please welcome to the show, Griselda Flores.
01:20Griselda Flores, thank you so much for coming to On The Record. We're so happy that you're here.
01:24Thank you so much, Kristen. Thank you for having me.
01:27So I wanted to talk to you so badly. As soon as I thought that I was going to do a podcast,
01:33I immediately thought I need to talk to Griselda about the reporting that she's doing. I think
01:37it's one of the most important topics in the music business this year. And I wanted to start
01:43by asking you when it really came on your radar that this was really starting to impact the Latin
01:49music industry. Yeah, I would say that I started paying attention to it even back in November when
01:57President Trump got elected, just because he had campaigned on an aggressive crackdown on
02:05immigration. And historically, even with previous administrations, when that happens, when there's
02:10this stepped up immigration enforcement initiative by any administration, historically,
02:16you know, we do see a trend where there is less people willing to go out, maybe they're fearful of
02:24immigration raids. And so this has happened in the past with previous administration. Actually,
02:28my boss, Leila Cobo, she reported on it when it happened with George W. Bush.
02:33Oh, yeah, back in 2007. So we see that happening with previous administrations. So I thought, you know,
02:40maybe just keep an eye out and see how this could pan out for Latin music when Trump does enter into
02:47a second term. So in November, it was more of me like paying attention, keeping an eye out. I didn't
02:52really know what to expect, what would happen if there would even be an impact, right? And then in
02:57January, I would say like, one or two weeks after he took office, we started hearing rumors,
03:04a few shows had been canceled or people weren't buying tickets. My boss was also hearing it from
03:13her sources. And that's when my reporting started. I feel like oftentimes when people cancel shows,
03:18they're usually not very transparent about why. So were they publicly just saying, hey, we have to
03:25cancel the show because I'm sick or like some other kind of BS excuse. And really underneath the hood,
03:32you were hearing that the reasons were actually related to the new administration?
03:37I would say both. This was happening in very small markets, right? Northern California. And these were
03:42shows at nightclubs, shows in venues that maybe were like 500 to 1000 people capacity. These were
03:48small shows. This wasn't like an arena show or a stadium show, nothing of that sort. And this was
03:53in Hispanic neighborhoods, Northern California. I spoke to a promoter who worked that market.
03:58He did say, you know, as soon as he took office and that's when, you know, there we were seeing
04:03immigration rates, very sporadic immigration rates across across the country. And immediately he noticed
04:08that, you know, people either weren't buying tickets to to the show and he just sort of had to cancel and
04:14offer refunds. And it was sort of like people understood what was happening. Right. Again, because we see this
04:23happening. It's a historical thing that always sort of tracks when administrations step up their
04:29immigration enforcement. But there was this other promoter in Florida that canceled the show,
04:36obviously not in Miami, but a smaller city in Florida. And they posted on their social media saying
04:42because of, you know, the political climate and what we're saying, you know, we're postponing these
04:46shows. So some were were very transparent about why they were canceling or postponing the shows.
04:53Others, it was sort of just, you know, more like under the radar. But again, people weren't reporting
04:59on it. Media wasn't reporting just because they are very small markets. I'm kind of surprised that
05:04the Florida market was transparent about it because I feel like there's probably also a lot of fear
05:08associated with being transparent. And I thought, you know, that's very brave of them to to even
05:14acknowledge that that's the reason. But, you know, low concert attendance just tracked in general with
05:21what we were seeing in other areas. So, for example, The New York Times was reporting that people
05:28weren't even going to church. They weren't going to doctor's appointments. People were scared to drive
05:32their kids to school just in case anything could happen. So if they weren't going to doctor's
05:36appointments, they weren't going to to shows either. Right. Because this was a real thing that was
05:42impacting their their lives. And it just made sense that that was happening. I will say after I
05:50started reporting it and I, you know, I published the story on just sort of like what the impact
05:54could be. Visa issues weren't a thing yet. Right. My first focus was, are people going to concerts?
06:00Right. Are they too scared to buy a ticket to attend? That was pretty much my focus at the time.
06:05When you're focusing on that, were you also thinking about most people buying tickets for shows that are
06:10far in the future. So these people were having to think about whether or not they wanted to show up
06:15for a show, sometimes like six months away. Was that part of the reporting at all?
06:20No, I think it was very immediate of like the shows happening that weekend.
06:25People were still buying for shows in the future, maybe in like bigger arenas, bigger artists that they
06:33were willing to go see. And I will say after reporting and my story came out, things got back to normal.
06:39Like people started feeling more comfortable about going out. My reaction was like, OK,
06:44maybe people were scared that first month that he went into office. But now everything seems to be
06:49back to normal. When was that? When did you feel like it kind of settled out?
06:54Late February, early March. OK. Yeah.
06:58Yeah. That promoters were saying like, you know, we kind of went through like this whole few weeks of
07:03people weren't buying tickets, but now everything seems back to normal.
07:07It was just like that initiative of like being scared to go to go out.
07:11Can you explain for those who don't really know much about visas?
07:14Like what are the kind of visas that artists typically get and how long does it typically
07:18take to get approved for one?
07:22So the type of visas that artists apply for and are generally reserved for these types of artists
07:27that we cover are O-1 and P-1B visas.
07:33And these are non-immigrant visas. So this isn't like a green card.
07:37This is a working permit that is temporary.
07:41And for an artist to get it, they have to have a petitioner.
07:45So a petitioner has to apply on their behalf.
07:47And this petitioner is typically could be the artist's label, could be the promoter, could
07:55be, you know, the manager that is applying on their behalf.
07:59And they would have to show an itinerary, right?
08:02An agenda for this artist.
08:04This is why they need to be here.
08:06They have to be in the studio.
08:07There's a songwriting camp that they have to come to.
08:09They have a 20-day tour.
08:12And that's proof of why they need to have that work permit, why they need to be in the
08:18U.S. for a certain amount of time.
08:20And these work permits or visas, they will be approved for two to three years, maybe.
08:27But again, it just depends on how busy they're going to be.
08:30Like it has to make sense of, you know, we give you a year and they have like a, you know,
08:36two-month tour type of thing.
08:38So what determines is just how busy they'll be here in the U.S.
08:42But again, these are temporary.
08:44Once they do expire, they have to reapply and they have to go through the whole process.
08:49And the process has just generally always been complicated.
08:54It costs a lot.
08:56And not everyone gets approved.
08:58You know, that's always also been the case.
09:00Oh, OK.
09:01Yeah, yeah.
09:02I mean, it was rare that people wouldn't get approved.
09:05It was, you know, people could get their visas revoked for a number of reasons, like criminal
09:10activity.
09:11You overstate your visa, a whole bunch of other issues.
09:15But it's not as common, right, as what we're seeing today.
09:19Everything is just so public of what artists are going through with their visas.
09:22I'm also wondering if we could go back to Trump's first term.
09:27Did you see the same wave of fear and difficulty with selling concert tickets?
09:34Or is this really something that got exacerbated during the second term?
09:39Definitely the second term, we've seen it more.
09:42The first term, I remember that mainly it was because of that travel ban that he imposed
09:48for Middle Eastern countries very early on in his administration.
09:53We were seeing artists mainly from that area being affected.
09:57And a lot of the immigration lawyers that I've spoke to say the same thing, right?
10:02We were dealing with clients from the Middle East just because of that travel ban.
10:09So from what I remember, I don't recall having to report on Latin artists having their visas
10:17revoked.
10:18I think the process was taking longer than it usually was just because when that happens,
10:24there's more extreme vetting, which is also what we're seeing now.
10:28So I think in his first term, it was more of like the Middle Eastern countries that were
10:32being impacted and artists from that area.
10:35And again, just like the whole process taking longer than expected.
10:40What was the first moment or event where you noticed that visas were really starting to
10:46play a role in the story you've been developing?
10:48The first case that we heard of with the visa situation, I would say, was very early April.
10:56And it was this regional Mexican group called Los Alegres del Barranco.
11:02They had a show in Guadalajara in Mexico, and they sing narco corridos.
11:09So a narco corrido is a type of music, a style, a subgenre of música mexicana that is very
11:15controversial because the lyrics often glorify narco culture or cartel leaders.
11:22There's even some states in Mexico have banned artists from performing narco corridos in public
11:28spaces.
11:28If they perform, yeah, they have to pay a fine, actually.
11:32Wow.
11:32Yeah.
11:33So we've seen consequences happen in Mexico.
11:36There weren't really consequences that we knew of here in the States, right?
11:40That was never an issue.
11:42At least nothing that we knew of.
11:46Yeah.
11:46But we have to remember that.
11:48So this group performed in Guadalajara in Mexico, and they sang on narco corrido.
11:53They even displayed images of a cartel leader during their show.
11:58OK.
11:59So, yeah.
11:59That's tough.
12:00Yeah, that is tough.
12:02It's hard to go unnoticed.
12:03So when that happened, we have to remember that in January, when Trump took office, he
12:10designated cartels as foreign terrorist organizations.
12:15Oh, OK.
12:15And that's the first time they'd ever been classified as that.
12:18Uh-huh.
12:19So these guys are singing about cartels.
12:23So when that happened with that group in Mexico, mind you, they were performing in Mexico, not
12:29the U.S.
12:29So the State Department's Deputy Secretary, Christopher Landau, he took to Twitter or X.
12:37He announced, he wrote a post saying that the U.S. government had revoked this group's
12:46working and tourist visas.
12:49And this was really alarming, again, because they were performing in Mexico, not in the U.S.
12:54But then we go into the whole thing of, like, freedom of expression, the freedom of speech.
13:00Where does that play into that?
13:02Not that glorifying cartels is a good thing, but it does kind of feel like a free speech
13:07thing, maybe.
13:08Totally.
13:09Yeah, that's very interesting.
13:11So when you heard about that, did someone text you that tweet or were you just already
13:16following that so closely that it was already on your radar?
13:20Like, how are you getting some of this information and these tips?
13:22So thankfully, we have two reporters in Mexico who are great and they're very aware of what's
13:29happening.
13:30And they've actually covered a bunch on narco corridos getting banned in Mexico.
13:36So they've been following that story.
13:38They're great at what they do.
13:40So one of them saw it and she wrote it up for us.
13:43But I think that was really the first case that I think put a lot of people in alert.
13:51Right.
13:52Someone was getting punished for singing.
13:55Right.
13:55Because they didn't like what they were singing.
13:58It almost feels like the Mexican equivalent of like gang rap.
14:01Would that be like a fair comparison?
14:03Totally.
14:04OK.
14:04Totally.
14:05Yeah.
14:05Which is something that I still today don't know.
14:08But it's like, who is alerting them?
14:10Who is alerting the federal government that this is happening?
14:13Like, who told them that this artist was playing a show in Guadalajara?
14:16And then how are they getting the list of all these other artists, right, that we're not
14:20now seeing?
14:21Because Los Alegres were the first case, but now they're not the only ones.
14:26After that, we saw a handful of artists who not necessarily sing just Corridos, but they
14:35have sung Narco Corridos in the past.
14:38That's really like a story that I'm trying to figure out, like, who's alerting them that
14:42these are the artists?
14:43Is it a collaboration between both governments?
14:47We just don't know that part.
14:48It was probably the largest Narco Corridos act today.
14:53Some of the biggest artists have performed Narco Corridos.
14:56You have Los Tigres del Norte, which are huge.
14:59We have huge artists that have performed Narco Corridos just because it is part of, you
15:05know, sadly, it is part of our music.
15:07It's part of our culture.
15:09And people want artists to sing Narco Corridos.
15:12I think people, that is a part of, you know, what Mexican music is.
15:17Yeah.
15:18And tell me a little bit more about your background.
15:21Your family is from Mexico, but you were born in the U.S., correct?
15:24I'm in Chicago now.
15:25I was born and raised in Chicago to Mexican parents.
15:29And my household was, you know, we were the quintessential Mexican immigrant family, you
15:36know, trying to hold on to our roots, our culture.
15:40Regional Mexican music was always blasting in our house.
15:44I didn't listen to anything but regional Mexican music.
15:47So this is something that, you know, I love.
15:50I mean, I love that I'm, I was there to report and just how it grew globally these past few
15:56years.
15:57And now to be covering this.
15:59It feels like one of the later waves of Latin music to finally hit the U.S.
16:04So I imagine, like, growing up, the friends of yours who were not Mexican American, they
16:09might not have understood any of the music that you were listening to at the time.
16:13Oh, no.
16:14I will say, though, that Mexican music has had a really strong foundation and a huge fan
16:21base in the U.S.
16:22and in Mexico.
16:23So it's one of those, I mean, it's been around forever and we now have artists who are Mexican
16:29American, artists who are Mexican.
16:32But it wasn't always, like, the most popular genre in Latin music.
16:37It was very much, oh, for a specific type of person, only Mexicans listen to it.
16:42Even in, you know, within my own family, there's people who don't like the music just because
16:47it's very specific.
16:48The instruments are also very, like, specific.
16:50There's a specific sound to it.
16:51It's not as global as probably other sounds like reggaeton that could be a bit more, like,
16:58just rhythmic.
16:59It was a little genre that, you know, I loved and people would look at me weird just because
17:06I liked it.
17:07It was like, oh, you like that music.
17:09But now everyone loves it.
17:11And I get to be and hear and report about it.
17:15Yeah.
17:15Yeah.
17:16I mean, now I'm sure everyone was going to you about Peso Pluma and being like, yes, okay,
17:21it's actually really cool.
17:23This has been my life forever.
17:25Welcome to my world.
17:27So, I mean, obviously, first of all, like, Latin America is not a monolith, but Latin
17:34music is also not a monolith.
17:35So are there certain genres and subgenres and even nationalities within Latin America that
17:42are being or that are having a harder time at this point due to ICE and due to visa issues?
17:50With Mexico, it is sort of more of the regional Mexican artists who are going through a difficult
17:55time.
17:55Either their visas are getting provoked or, again, it's just a process that used to be six months.
18:01Now is 12 months just because of the extreme vetting.
18:06So that's sort of like what Mexican artists are going through.
18:10And then the other artists that I recently reported on are the Cuban artists touching,
18:16you know, lightly on Venezuela just because both of those countries, Cuba and Venezuela,
18:20are part of the travel ban that was imposed by President Trump in June.
18:25So it just really limits and restricts people who can come from both of those countries.
18:32And I was speaking to someone who works very closely with Cuban artists.
18:36And it's just sort of I think he was saying even like 90 percent of those applications that
18:41are, you know, being 90 percent of the applications from Cuban artists are just going straight to
18:48like administrative review, just because it's a multi-agency review, multi-agency process that
18:55is reviewing them.
18:56And they're just going straight to admin review because of that travel ban.
19:00And admin review is sort of like a black hole.
19:04So that artist is just in limbo.
19:06And he's saying it's hard for Cuban artists to get booked at festivals or shows because
19:11you don't know if they're ever going to get approved, how long it's going to take.
19:15Due to the visa issues, the delays, even visas being revoked, has that had an effect on Latin
19:25artists being able to be booked for these major festivals and tours in the future?
19:30Like, is there now some fear among venues?
19:32There was this person that I spoke to from an association of Promotores Unidos that focused
19:40mainly on regional Mexican artists saying, you know, we have to think twice now because
19:45fans are like, do we buy a ticket?
19:48Not knowing if the artist actually can get a visa to come to come to the U.S.
19:52Some were saying like the fan will wait literally till they see a video of the artist saying like,
19:59I'm in the U.S.
20:00They have proof that the artist has entered.
20:02That's when they're willing to buy a ticket.
20:04And it's like a day before.
20:06So that is definitely impacting presale for a lot of these venues and the promoters.
20:12But Kristen, Coachella, they just announced their lineup.
20:16There's no regional Mexican artists on that lineup.
20:19Oh, yeah.
20:19I mean, well, Carol G is a headliner, but that's about, yeah, I remember seeing that there was
20:24like a genre breakdown.
20:26I don't know if you've seen this.
20:27I'll send it to you after this.
20:28So there's a company called Roster, shout out Roster.
20:33They create this thing every year where they change out the names of the artists with what
20:40genre they are so people can track how many artists from pop are booked this year versus
20:45hip hop versus Latin.
20:48And I'm pretty sure Latin had a pretty weak showing this year compared to years past besides
20:54the Carol G of it all.
20:56Yeah.
20:56Same hip hop was down really far.
21:00But yeah.
21:01Yeah.
21:01Talk to me about that, like with Coachella and in the book.
21:04Yeah.
21:05And I had been reporting a bunch maybe like two years ago of like, oh, my God, look at
21:09all these regional Mexican artists on the lineup making strides.
21:15And this year there's no regional Mexican artists on that lineup.
21:19And, you know, I get it.
21:20I think it's hard for people to want to book someone who's coming in from another country
21:25because of the visa issues that we're having.
21:27But that's not an excuse because there's a bunch of Mexican-American artists who live
21:31in the U.S. that they could have booked.
21:32So that's a whole other story.
21:34Do you have any knowledge of whether or not this is about the visa issue or if it's just
21:39like a general shift in the Coachella booking more towards pop this year than other genres?
21:45I don't have confirmation.
21:46I just, you know, found it very strange that there were no regional Mexican artists on the
21:52lineup.
21:53Yeah.
21:53It's just interesting timing.
21:55Right.
21:55Yeah.
21:56And I think it's important to know that, you know, while some big artists from Mexico,
22:02maybe they're having visa issues, but it's no excuse as to like exclude the genre completely
22:07just because there are so many regional Mexican artists who are from here.
22:12Yeah.
22:12Yeah, absolutely.
22:13And I want to talk about another festival, the Michalada Festival, which is in your hometown
22:18of Chicago.
22:19Yeah.
22:20That got canceled this summer.
22:22Can you tell me a little bit more about what happened there?
22:25Well, Los Alegres del Barranco, who were the first ones to go through this publicly,
22:29were part of that festival.
22:31They were on the lineup.
22:31But I think they were, Michalada Fest, when that happened, they were able to just sort
22:38of bring in another artist.
22:40And that was sort of like the fix then when that happened.
22:43And but then I think it was in May that they officially announced that they were canceling
22:51the entire event.
22:53And I they were saying it was, you know, due to uncertain uncertainty surrounding artists
22:59visas.
23:00And then I jumped on the phone with one of the founders.
23:05And he was saying that.
23:08At the end, first, you know, they heard about Los Alegres and they thought, OK, maybe that's
23:13just an isolated event.
23:15Yeah.
23:15Yeah.
23:15It's like they're making.
23:16Maybe the other artists are.
23:18Yeah.
23:19They're making a case out of them.
23:20Right.
23:21But they did have other regional Mexican artists who were on their lineup.
23:27And at least one of them, we know for sure publicly that they also got their visa revoked.
23:34So he said, you know, internally, we were hearing about all these artists who were getting
23:39the visas revoked.
23:40Do we give people just sort of like, you know, last minute lineup?
23:44Um, or do we make sure that we're being super transparent with them and say, like, we'd
23:50rather cancel this year and come back strong, stronger if, you know, if possible next year.
23:56Um, so they ended up canceling because they were dealing with that internally where it
24:01wasn't just Los Alegres del Barranco, but all a whole bunch of other artists were also
24:05dealing with the same thing.
24:06What are the financial implications for a major venue or a major festival like Michelada
24:12when they cancel like this?
24:14Like, is there, do they have to give everyone their money back?
24:17Um, is there insurance for something like this?
24:20Obviously, we know that there's force majeure, uh, with insurance that covers whenever, you
24:24know, a show gets canceled because of something, I think it like hurricanes or something like
24:29that.
24:30Yeah, it's like an act of God.
24:31Yeah.
24:31It has to be like an act of Trump.
24:33So, of course, Trump.
24:34We need that in there in the fine print.
24:37Um, but visa issues are not in there, so it's not covered, right?
24:41So, it's up to, um, you know, it's a total loss at that point because insurance doesn't
24:48cover.
24:49Um, but it's really, it was really sad for Michelada Fest because this is a festival that
24:53went from being like a street festival, a very local Chicago festival, and it had just
24:58grown a lot.
24:59I mean, you had Kali Uchis who had headlined it last year.
25:04Um, so it was just really like in a growing, uh, uh, moment.
25:09It was growing and, you know, for it to happen to them, uh, this time around, it's an independent
25:15company, like from Chicago, uh, it impacted local vendors that they hire, merch, uh, that
25:22they were hiring security.
25:23He was saying, you know, this is a big contract for a lot of the people that we, that we hire
25:29security.
25:30I mean, this, we were their biggest contract of the year and now they don't have that gig
25:33anymore.
25:34Wow.
25:35I mean, it's crazy how if you, you watch the domino effect, it's not just the artist taking
25:40the hit.
25:41It's not just the fans being inconvenienced.
25:43There's the venue and all the vendors, as you were saying, um, like this is a really random
25:48aside, but I, I once took a, um, well, so I went to USC and I did their music industry
25:53program and they had a class, uh, called music festivals and we had to like plan out hypothetical
25:59music festivals and think about all the logistics.
26:02And one of the big things that we focused on in that class was how many porta potties do
26:06you need?
26:07Uh, like all of these like random things that no one would think about how much, how much
26:11fencing do you need?
26:12How much security, um, do you want to ramp up security due to gun violence potential?
26:19Um, you know, it's, I, it is really fascinating how many minute details go into something like
26:24that and how many contractors there are involved in it.
26:27Yeah, so I mean, even the, yeah, like the porta potty thing was something that he thought
26:33about too.
26:34Like we're that company that we hired, we were their biggest, uh, event of the year and
26:38how they don't have that gig anymore.
26:40Like it, it impacts not just the artists, but so many, so many agencies around it.
26:45So many people.
26:46Yeah.
26:46And so do you think that there's good odds that they're able to come back next year
26:50after this financial loss?
26:51I hope so.
26:52I'm rooting for them again, because this is a Chicago very high price.
26:57for local people who are working the events that the founders are from Chicago.
27:02Um, and again, it had just grown so much.
27:04So I think the community will rally together and, and hopefully we'll see them come back.
27:08There have been some other high profile instances of visas being revoked.
27:14Um, the one that I always come back to, cause I, you think you've written about it a couple
27:18times now, and it's been very interesting to watch, uh, Julio Alvarez.
27:22Can you talk to me about that situation and what happened there?
27:25Los Alegres del Barranco were a little bit lesser known.
27:28Uh, Julio Alvarez is, is a huge Mexican artist.
27:32At one point he was the box office king, uh, here in the U.S.
27:36What a title.
27:38Right.
27:39Um, he's an interesting case, I will say, because in 2018, uh, he, 2017 or 2018, he was having
27:49some issues with the U.S.
27:51Government, with the U.S.
27:52Treasury.
27:53So, um, he couldn't come work to the U.S.
27:57Uh, his visa was revoked.
28:00He didn't, he couldn't come here legally because of those issues with the Treasury.
28:03Wait, so what, what were the issues?
28:05Do you know?
28:06Money laundering, uh, something of that sort.
28:10So he wasn't allowed to come into the U.S.
28:12or work in the U.S.
28:12This was at the peak of his career when they had just called him the box office king.
28:17Um, so it definitely derailed like his career here in the States.
28:21Uh, and this was before regional Mexican music was even like a global thing.
28:26Right.
28:26Um, so he had just announced his compact tour because those issues had been cleared.
28:33He was able to come back to the U.S.
28:35He got a visa.
28:37His visa was approved.
28:38He was ready to go.
28:39Like, this was one of the most highly anticipated tours, uh, in Musica Mexicana.
28:45I mean, the box office king was coming back, right?
28:47As soon as he announced a few shows, they sold out.
28:50He did three sold out SoFi stadiums in April.
28:54That's, that's how big he is.
28:56Yeah.
28:56I mean, I think that's very shocking to folks that are not following the space very much.
29:03That is way bigger than, I mean, so many other artists.
29:07Like, I don't know how to be articulate about it, but that, that is huge.
29:10It was a huge deal.
29:12So he, he got to do those shows at SoFi in Los Angeles.
29:16Okay.
29:17And that was in April.
29:18He got to do those shows.
29:19So he got his visa approved.
29:21Yeah.
29:21He got to do those shows.
29:23He went to LA.
29:24He went, after those shows, he went back to Mexico.
29:27And I think this was perhaps maybe a mistake.
29:30He went back to Mexico after those shows.
29:33And he tried to come back in May for his show in Texas, the AT&T stadium.
29:39He had a show that Saturday and he was traveling on Friday.
29:45So just the day before he decided to travel to Texas and at the airport, they informed him that he couldn't travel because his visa was revoked.
29:54And that was just super last minute, obviously a day before this massive show.
30:00And I think it really just left his team sort of in shock and scrambling to try to figure out what was going on.
30:08I was lucky enough to speak to the promoter, Henry Cardenas, who's actually based here in Chicago.
30:15And he's the CEO and founder of one of the biggest indie Latin promoters.
30:21And he was very honest about the whole situation, just saying like even in his 40 year career, 40 plus, he had never seen anything like that where a visa was just revoked.
30:33So last minute, a day before a show.
30:36So he got no warning.
30:37It's not like he got a phone call or one of his lawyers heard that there was some trouble.
30:42No.
30:42I just I find that so fascinating.
30:46And I mean, yeah, you'd think he would have more of a heads up.
30:50But yeah, I mean, from there, I guess he has to cancel everything.
30:53And then he had to.
30:54Yeah, he had to cancel everything.
30:56Well, I think he said that it was postponed until like further notice.
31:02But I spoke to Henry and he was saying it was a total loss.
31:06Like we lost two million dollars that day, like for that show, because, you know, you have labor and production.
31:13Everything was a loss.
31:14Wow.
31:15And he's like, we can't keep losing two million dollars every weekend.
31:18Like, this is insane.
31:20Like, we need to do something about it.
31:22Were there a lot more dates on the tour after AT&T?
31:26No, that was the last one.
31:28And I'm not sure if it was two shows or one show, but he was he was about to announce a tour.
31:35A tour was coming.
31:37And again, this was supposed to be part of like his comeback tour.
31:40So that all just sort of got derailed.
31:43And even to this day, like he hasn't been able to come back.
31:47We don't know if he's going to tour or not.
31:49But that's, you know, the promoter that I spoke to, he was saying these guys, Julian Alvarez makes 10 million dollars in a show in the U.S.
31:59You don't make that amount of money in Mexico or in any other Latin American country.
32:03Like this is this is big.
32:05Like artists are losing a bunch of money.
32:08Yeah.
32:08Yeah.
32:09I mean, that that is crazy.
32:11I mean, so are the monetary opportunities generally for Latin artists larger in the U.S. if you can break into that market?
32:18Totally.
32:19OK.
32:19I mean, you know this.
32:21The U.S. is still the number one global market.
32:24This is where, you know, you get the money.
32:27The streams are which I leave that to you because I know you more.
32:30You know more about that.
32:32I will.
32:32I will actually explain this if anyone's listening and is not aware of this.
32:35So, I mean, the cost of having a Spotify subscription, for example, is different based on where you live, because obviously something that costs a fair amount to a U.S. person might be totally different for someone in India or someone in Poland or wherever.
32:51The buying power of consumers informs the price that Spotify will list their subscriptions at or any streaming service.
32:59It's not just Spotify.
33:00And so the corresponding royalty pool for artists in that country are dependent on how much users are paying for the service.
33:11So in a place like the U.S., you can certainly earn a lot more streaming dollars than if a stream came from the Philippines or another country where it might be a lower cost price point.
33:23So, yeah, that would be true for probably most of Latin America.
33:27To be a global artist, you have to come to the U.S. and establish yourself as an artist here.
33:32You want to meet with the DSPs in person.
33:35You know, you want to do promo out here with media outlets.
33:39This is where the biggest awards happen.
33:41Our awards, the Latin Grammys, right?
33:43You want to make sure that you have a presence here in the U.S.
33:46Because, again, this is the number one market for music in live or in streams, right?
33:52So this is detrimental to an artist's career.
33:56And this is going to sound like a really dumb question.
33:58I actually don't know the answer to it.
34:00Is the Latin music industry primarily based in Miami or is there a base outside of the U.S.
34:08that is more of the primary location?
34:10Before, it used to be L.A. because of its proximity to Mexico.
34:15And Mexico is probably the biggest market in Latin America.
34:19Brazil as well.
34:21But, yeah, I think it was L.A. for Latin music.
34:25Now it's probably Miami, between L.A. and Miami.
34:28So basically, if you are not able to come to the U.S., it's not just like,
34:33oh, I can't do this one tour that I wish I could do.
34:35It's also probably songwriting sessions.
34:38And getting in the room with your label executives and your managers and the folks that can really propel your career forward.
34:46Yeah, that should still be like an important part of a release plan, coming to the U.S. and having that presence.
34:52Interesting.
34:53So, like, have you heard about stuff like that?
34:55Like songwriting camps being affected by artists that are either afraid to travel or are not allowed to?
35:01What have you been hearing in that space, if anything?
35:05Yeah, I think it's impacting just the entire business of what Latin music is, right?
35:12I think our focus always goes to the artists and what that looks like for them.
35:17But it's impacting, I'm sure, their labels, right?
35:20Promoters, venues here, will they try to be more flexible and be able to change dates here and there?
35:28Songwriting camps, I'm sure, have also been impacted.
35:31For one of the stories that I just did, I spoke to an executive at an indie promoter who was saying, like,
35:38one of their marquee artists, he, you know, lost the tour when he, he's their biggest source of income.
35:45And when their artist loses their biggest source of income, which is a tour in the U.S.,
35:50like, he literally feared that the company would go down.
35:53Like, would they have to shut down operations, downsize as a team?
35:58He was scared of losing his job.
35:59So this is impacting, like, all areas of the business.
36:04I think it's easy to forget that there are a lot of independent labels and other sorts of companies within the music industry
36:11that are kind of relying and banking on their one breakout.
36:15Yeah.
36:16And it, like, funds everything else.
36:18I hear this all the time.
36:20And, I mean, it's a very dangerous position to be in as an independent company to not have a second or third star,
36:28to just be relying on one.
36:29But obviously, everyone would love to have more stars.
36:32So it's no one's fault.
36:33I'm sure they're trying to work more all the time.
36:36Oh, I'm sure.
36:37Yeah.
36:37I mean, that is definitely an issue.
36:41I'm wondering, throughout all of this reporting, it sounds like you've spoken to so many different people
36:47at so many different angles.
36:49But were people afraid to talk to you at any point?
36:52Some were really open to speaking to me.
36:54Like, that promoter who's, I mean, he's been around for many years.
36:58He's a veteran and he's, you know, he was very nice enough to speak to me on the record.
37:03He was the one that, you know, saw the issues the first month that Trump went into office
37:08and had to cancel some shows in Northern California.
37:11So he was very nice about it just because he's been around for many years.
37:14He's dealt with this in the past.
37:16That was one example of a conversation that I had.
37:19Others, you know, were also honest in saying, you know, we haven't felt an impact yet.
37:24Maybe it's too early, too soon to tell what sort of, you know, what we can expect will happen.
37:29And I, you know, I get that.
37:31Just because I was calling them up in January and they were like, he just took office.
37:35We don't know what's going to happen.
37:36Yeah.
37:37Yeah.
37:37So true.
37:37And, you know, there were others who were very scared that I was doing this type of reporting.
37:44At least two people asked me not to write this story.
37:48Oh, wow.
37:49Wait, so why did they not want it to get out?
37:52Because, I mean, you're the one taking the risk putting it under your name.
37:56But, like, wouldn't they want people to understand the issues that the Latin music industry is facing?
38:02I mean, it's such a sensitive topic, right?
38:04You're talking about a very vulnerable community when you're talking about undocumented immigrants.
38:11And I get that, right?
38:13I have always been very careful about that type of reporting.
38:17I went to school and I studied social justice journalism.
38:20So I get that.
38:23But I think maybe for them, they were just scared that we would expose something so negative about what was happening within Latin music, right?
38:33People losing money.
38:35I don't think people want that to come out, that they're losing money in any sort of, you know, capacity.
38:41It is so rare to find a source who's willing to be honest about the fact that they have taken a big financial hit.
38:47Because it's, I mean, even if it's out of their control, it obviously doesn't make them look amazing.
38:52Yeah.
38:53So, yeah, it takes a lot of bravery to actually be able to be honest about that.
38:56Exactly.
38:57And I recognize that so much from Henry Cardenas, who talked about Julio Nalvarez, just because he was so honest about it.
39:03And I think he was really like the first big executive to say like, hey, we need to talk about this because this could jeopardize our entire industry.
39:11So it was a lot of very different conversations that I was having, just a lot of back and forth, trying to get sources to feel comfortable with me.
39:23Because, I mean, I get it.
39:24Like I was just coming in and asking these questions from like out of the blue.
39:29So it's, I'm not upset at them because, again, no one wants to talk about this.
39:36But, you know, Kristen, we're journalists and we have to follow the story.
39:39We have to follow the numbers.
39:42And this was the thing that was happening.
39:45As your reporting went on, because you've written several stories about this topic.
39:48Did you feel like people warmed up to you a little bit more because they knew more about what they would expect from your resulting stories?
39:54Maybe the first story that I wrote, which was more, you know, like what could happen under the Trump administration.
40:01I think people were just like, oh, like, OK, you know, that was a good story.
40:08But I didn't really get any feedback from the industry.
40:11My second story, which was the regional Mexican artists going through these visa issues.
40:19Everyone on, you know, that I follow that follows me from the industry was reposting this story.
40:24Right. And and I think it was the real it was the first time that, you know, they saw a story like this where it was out in the open and we couldn't just like slide it under the rug anymore.
40:35Like this was impacting our industry in a very real way.
40:38I actually made a reel or like a to talk about it.
40:43And I that was a very high performing one for me, too.
40:46It seemed like that was something it just felt like it hit the zeitgeist.
40:49Like everyone was talking about it.
40:52Everyone wanted to see a reporting on it.
40:54What was new in your most recent reporting that just came out last week?
40:58If an artist gets their visa revoked, how can that impact their career growth?
41:04And that's when I really started writing about the stream effect and how a stream is worth more here, the importance of doing promo out here.
41:14And if they don't, that that could really derail their career.
41:17And I touched on the Cuban artists issues that they're going through now because of the travel ban that was imposed in June.
41:26So that's really kind of like what's new.
41:29And again, it's still a lot of reporting.
41:32And these stories take time.
41:34So I know that I always say, like, oh, I'm working on this and I don't release it till like two months later.
41:40No, I mean, that's the thing that I think my non-journalist friends just like really don't understand that you don't just go out with something because you heard a rumor.
41:48Like, no, maybe that rumor seems very, very true and very possible.
41:53You're going to need to dive really deep and get a bunch of sources.
41:56And especially with a sensitive topic, there's some people who will never want to go on the record.
42:00They'll never want to be associated with the story and you have to figure out how to handle that.
42:06So, yeah, two months makes a lot of sense.
42:09I would understand if it was like six months, too.
42:12It's a big challenge.
42:14And sometimes you have to run with a story without many on the record interviews and the record interviews.
42:20But I am having on background interviews off the record because people feel more comfortable that way.
42:26So a lot of my stories you'll see they're like, oh, this person, you know, preferred to be anonymous or on background or maybe there's just like two people that I actually name because that's who was willing to speak to me on the record.
42:40But in, you know, in the process, I'm interviewing so many people that at the end, I'm like, I think I've spoken to way too many people at this point.
42:50I think going back to the visa issues, visas being revoked specifically, the examples that you've given so far are people who have had issues with.
43:03Well, I mean, you have one Narco Corridos example, which although that might be a free speech issue, you know, it's like glorifying cartels is maybe not the most palatable thing.
43:14And then you have Julio Alvarez, who had some issues with the Treasury Department previously.
43:20Are there any examples of artists that are getting their visas revoked and there is absolutely no rhyme or reason behind it?
43:27Yeah, I mean, Grupo Firme is another group that we know for sure went through this in a very public way because they had to cancel a show at a festival performance in June.
43:44And this group, they've been on the cover of Billboard.
43:49Wait, didn't you write that?
43:51I wrote that one.
43:52Shout out.
43:53I know, I'm like, uh.
43:56They're huge, right?
43:57They were selling out stadiums in the U.S.
43:59And they're not really like a Narco Corrido type of band, right?
44:07They've performed one or two, but their, you know, their work is mainly romantic songs, party songs.
44:15And then, you know, we heard that their visa had been revoked.
44:21And I think that's the scary part, right?
44:23Are they just seeing a regional Mexican artist and assuming that they're singing Narco Corridos when they're not?
44:30Like, that is not who they are.
44:32Um, and that's, that's one that really sort of like shook me where it's like, you know, are we just assuming because they sing regional Mexican that they're talking about cartels?
44:43Um, and I think that's where it gets really scary, where it's, it just doesn't, you know, wipe out a whole, um, genre or derail a whole movement that we've been seeing because they're just assuming that, oh, you're a regional Mexican, you won't get a visa.
44:59Wow.
45:00Yeah.
45:01And I mean, very, very recently moving outside of regional Mexican, uh, Bad Bunny, Puerto Rican born Bad Bunny, uh, biggest, one of the biggest stars in the world, um, has said that he does not want to tour the U.S.
45:14because of what, what, what was it?
45:17Was it ice or, um, yeah, yeah, ice could show up at his concert.
45:22Wow.
45:23And are there any examples that you've heard of, of ice actually showing up or is there more of just a chilling effect by the fact that it could happen?
45:31We've never heard reports of ice showing up to a show, uh, a concert.
45:35Um, I think it's just like that, you know, fear of, you know, what if it does happen?
45:41Right.
45:41Um, again, we've, haven't heard of that actually happening.
45:47Uh, and when Bad Bunny said that publicly, I mean, he's the biggest, probably the biggest Latin artist, uh, today.
45:55Um, he's global.
45:56So, you know, we were talking about it before, like he doesn't need to tour the U.S. at this point, um, cause he's such a big artist.
46:02But for him to say that publicly and acknowledge that as a real fear, I think it's going to open the doors for many other artists who were thinking this just weren't, you know, didn't want to say it out loud.
46:17I'm sure they've been dealing with, dealing with it, um, privately within their own teams and have been talking about it.
46:24But Bad Bunny actually saying it, I think it's going to now really start conversations and there's no way to hide it anymore when Bad Bunny is saying, I'm scared I could show up to one of my shows.
46:38Like, you can't hide it anymore.
46:39Like, this is a reality.
46:40Like, why did he feel brave enough to say that?
46:43He's Puerto Rican born, which means he's a U.S. citizen.
46:47Um, so I think that was probably something that made him feel, like, have that courage to really say it.
46:54Um, whereas other artists maybe don't feel comfortable just because they're not from the U.S.
47:00They don't want to get into that type of politics.
47:02Um, that doesn't mean they haven't spoken about, like, being in solidarity with the immigrant community.
47:08I think we've seen that from a bunch of, uh, Latin artists.
47:12Um, but I think, yeah, I think that really, you know, encouraged Bad Bunny to speak up, um, using, you know, privilege in the correct way of, you know, being able to speak up and say that something that is impacting an entire community, his fan base.
47:26What about more localized neighborhood music events?
47:29I think you've, you've written about By Lists in the past.
47:32Do you mind talking a little bit more about that?
47:34So, like, the local scene, I, I would say, is even in a more vulnerable position.
47:40Um, I think Michalada Fest is, like, a really clear example of that.
47:45Uh, just, you know, even wondering, like, could they come back next year just because they're an indie company?
47:50Um, so the local scene here, I mean, we even had in Chicago Cinco de Mayo parade being canceled because of it.
47:59Uh, the festivities surrounding Mexican Independence Day definitely look different here, um, just because local politicians are even encouraging people to be more careful of, um, just sort of, like, the events that we're having, uh, larger gatherings.
48:16I think that's still very much, uh, a concern, um, of immigration, uh, ice raids happening or immigration officials showing up.
48:25Um, so, yeah, I mean, it's definitely scarier when you're a local event where you don't have that, you know, backup of a major company.
48:34Um, you don't know if you could survive something like this.
48:38Um, even Henry Cardenas from CMN, he said, if we were in a smaller business and we just lost $2 million, that's it.
48:47Like, we probably couldn't recover from anything like that.
48:50Did you ever fear getting into this reporting?
48:53This is our job.
48:55We have to tell the story, um, especially if it's impacting a business as big as Latin music.
49:01Um, so I knew that I had to do it, uh, scared just because it involves, uh, such a vulnerable community that you don't want to expose.
49:12Um, you don't want to make them even more, uh, a center of a conversation ever, right, because of what they're going through, because of that fear that, yep, that they're going to, um, I have to be really careful about the type of questions that I ask, right?
49:26Um, presenting the right information, uh, not, you know, causing more fear than there already is.
49:33Yeah, you don't want to fear monger and make it worse.
49:36Yeah.
49:37Yeah.
49:38Yeah, that was a real concern.
49:39Um, you know, and I, I was talking to our editors, uh, Dan, I was calling him a bunch, uh, our news director, um, my boss.
49:48I even went back to, uh, some of my professors who are media ethics and I, you know, was asking them, like, am I doing the right thing?
49:57Can you guide me?
49:58Um, just cause it's so sensitive.
50:00And again, I, I was getting that pushback from the industry initially.
50:04Um, so I just wanted to make sure that I was doing it the right way.
50:06That's wonderful to be able to lean on some of like these people who have been part of your past and taught you how to be a journalist in the first place and being able to go back to them.
50:15Um, yeah.
50:16Um, I mean, on a lighter topic, uh, what else are you working on these days?
50:20I mean, beyond, I'm sure this takes up a lot of your time, but obviously, like we were saying before, you did the cover on Grupo Firme and you've done a lot of our covers on Latin stars.
50:30So are you doing anything on the artist side that you're excited about right now?
50:33I've focused a lot on regional Mexican artists.
50:36Actually, most of the covers that I've done have featured, uh, regional Mexican artists, which is exciting.
50:42Um, right now we're really focused on our biggest event of the year, which is Latin music week that is happening.
50:49Yes.
50:50In Miami in October.
50:51And it's such a huge event because we have, uh, it's a week long event in Miami.
50:56We have panels, workshops, our billboard Latin music awards take place.
51:01Um, so it's just sort of like, uh, you know, community coming together, industry coming together.
51:06And it really is like the biggest, at least it feels to us like the biggest Latin event.
51:11Griselda, thank you so much for joining us.
51:14But before you go, I do want to ask you the questions that I ask everyone who comes on, on the record.
51:19Um, this is a segment that I like to call make me a playlist.
51:22And we actually do have this playlist on Spotify for anyone who is curious.
51:26I will update it every single time that we have an episode come out with everyone's answers.
51:30Um, and also the podcast episode.
51:32So check that out on the billboard Spotify, but I want to hear yours.
51:36Um, so you have to pick three songs for us in three different categories.
51:40So the first category is a song that you can no longer gatekeep.
51:45It's not an old song and it's, you know, I think people know about it.
51:49Um, but there's this Puerto Rican artist.
51:52His name is Tommy Torres and Bad Bunny produced an EP for him.
51:57And I don't think it got the recognition that it should have gotten.
52:01I mean, we wrote about it.
52:02I interviewed both, uh, cause it was kind of like the first time that Bad Bunny was producing
52:07an entire project.
52:08Yeah.
52:08I didn't know that you produced.
52:09That's cool.
52:10Yeah.
52:10Yeah.
52:11So the EP is called El Playlist de Anoche.
52:14It's amazing.
52:15It's like alt rock, which is super different for Bad Bunny as well.
52:19But there's this one song called, uh, Marea.
52:23And I think people really need to listen to it.
52:28Um, again, I think the whole project just sort of went, uh, under the radar and it didn't
52:34get the recognition, but that song is one of my favorites on it.
52:37That's a great pick.
52:38Um, what's a favorite throwback for you?
52:41One of my favorite throwbacks is by Ariel Camacho.
52:45He's a regional, all of my songs will be Spanish songs, Kristen, because that's what I report
52:50on it, yeah, so, uh, this is a regional Mexican artist who passed away, unfortunately, uh, 10
52:59years ago, but he inspired Peso Pluma, all the new generation artists.
53:04Uh, he's, he inspired, um, the song is called Te Metiste and it's a Cierreño, very guitar
53:11driven song that I love to listen to.
53:14It's a romantic song, um, and it's definitely has that, uh, Ariel Camacho essence.
53:20So I want people to, to know more about him just cause he is a huge icon in musica mexicana.
53:27And last but not least, a guilty pleasure.
53:31I guess just listening to the same songs that I always listened to.
53:36I should be discovering new artists and trying to listen to, you know, new artists and new
53:43songs.
53:43But my guilty pleasure is just going back to those artists that soundtrack, uh, you know,
53:48my childhood.
53:50And a lot of it is from like the 1980s and 1990s.
53:53And that's, you know, that's something that makes me feel good.
53:56And it takes me back to a place, um, and a moment in my life that I love.
54:00So my guilty pleasure is just listening to old songs over and over again, which I shouldn't
54:05do.
54:06Well, I love that.
54:07Is, is there any artists in particular that people should check out?
54:11Vicente Fernandez.
54:12Uh, my dad used to listen to him all the time.
54:15And, you know, I think he, for me, takes me back to like my dad.
54:20Right.
54:20And he represents a lot of that of, of my family.
54:23So Vicente Fernandez, huge artist, uh, Mexican music artist.
54:28Love it.
54:29Love it.
54:29Well, thank you so much, Criselda, for coming by.
54:32We really appreciate it.
54:33And, uh, see you soon.
54:35Thank you, Kristen.
54:36All right, y'all.
54:37That was Billboard's senior Latin editor, Griselda Flores.
54:41We're very grateful that she was able to join us here today on On The Record.
54:44And before we sign off, let's check out what's going on on the Billboard Hot 100 chart for the
54:49week of September 27th.
54:51How It's Done by Huntrix falls to number 10.
54:57Lose Control by Teddy Swims returns to the top ranks this week at number 9.
55:03Justin Bieber's Daisies gains this week landing at number 8.
55:08Love Me Not by Raven Lenay climbs to the 7th spot.
55:11And the top three songs are still sticking around from last week, so that means Man Child by Sabrina
55:36Carpenter stays at number 3.
55:39Ordinary by Alex Warren is number 2.
55:44And finally, Golden by Huntrix from the K-pop Demon Hunters soundtrack is number 1 again this
55:51week for a sixth week.
55:52Thanks so much for tuning in to On The Record.
55:57Again, I'm your host, Kristen Robinson.
56:00And if you enjoyed today's show, please follow, like, subscribe, rate, all those good things.
56:05They really help a new show like ours to reach new fans.
56:08And we also have an Instagram, at Billboard On The Record, if you want to stay up to date
56:13on all things On The Record.
56:14That's all I have for you today.
56:16So tune in next week.
56:17We have a very special interview coming up with a top major label CEO.
56:21See you then.
56:22We'll see you then.
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