- 11 months ago
A stampede at TVK chief Vijay's rally in Tamil Nadu's Karur resulted in 41 deaths and over 100 injuries on Saturday. The incident has triggered a political blame game, with the TVK calling for a CBI probe and alleging sabotage, including a power cut during the event.
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00:00Welcome, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. Before we get to our top debate, let me quickly take you through the headlines.
00:09High drama over Asia Cup trophy presentation. BCCI vows to register a stern protest and bring the trophy home.
00:18PCB Chief Nakvi takes trophy away after India refuses to accept it.
00:30Prime Minister Modi hails men in blue for Asia Cup win and takes a dig at Pakistan after Asia Cup win, says Operation Sindhu on cricket field as well.
00:51Indian captain Surya Kumar Yadav hails Prime Minister Modi, says it feels good when Prime Minister stands with you.
00:57Viterates it stands firm with armed forces and Pahalgam terror victims.
01:08Opposition Mox Team India sees certain members of the India Alliance may claim BJP takes on the Amadmi Party.
01:19claiming Surya Kumar doesn't have
01:23Vijay not named as accused in Stampede F.I.R.
01:43Culpable homicide charges on key Vijay aides, key and Chief Minister Stalin's big warning on Stampede, says do not spread rumours on social media.
01:59Prime Minister Modi pens foreword for Italy.
02:02Prime Minister's memoir, calls it Monkey Bath, hails Georgia Meloni's inspiring journey in foreword.
02:09Prime Minister Modi, calls it a
02:12politics and blame.
02:25Alright viewers, our top story comes in from Tamil Nadu.
02:28Politics and a massive blame game has now erupted over the deadly stampede in Tamil Nadu at TVK's rally.
02:34Vijay has also been criticised for not visiting the victims of the stampede yet.
02:41Having said that, all eyes right now on who takes accountability.
02:4640 lives are lost and yet no accountability fixed.
02:51The deadly stampede at Tamiragavetri Karagam Chief Vijay's rally in Tamil Nadu's Karoor cost 41 lives on Saturday and more than 100 people were injured.
03:15In less than 48 hours of the incident, a full-blown war of misinformation, accusations and cover-up theories have taken the centre stage.
03:27TVK has submitted an application to Madras High Court asking for a CBI probe.
03:33The party has also appealed to court to restrict DGP and collector from preventing the actor-turned-politician Vijay from meeting the victims of Karoor tragedy.
03:48Mr. Radhan Arjuna has filed a petition before the High Court of Madras Madurai bench for seeking a transfer of the case from the town police station of Karoor to Central Investigation Team for the rope of the entire occurrence.
04:09TVK petition in the High Court claims that some anti-social elements infiltrated the rally and as soon as Vijay mentioned, DMK Minister Sentil Balaji and started criticising him.
04:24It was conducted in the recent past by one of the political parties with about 12-15,000 people who were gathered there and it went out very peacefully.
04:41So that was suggested to them. So they also went and saw the place, they finally agreed, they gave it in writing saying that we may be permitted to conduct the event in this place.
04:48Further, the petition mentions that even before TVK leader Vijay started his speech, the electricity connection was disrupted.
04:57It allegedly led to people jamming towards the generator used for backup.
05:04BJP has supported TVK's demand for a CBI probe.
05:09The Tamil Nadu government has denied power-cut allegations raised by TVK.
05:33India today has accessed the letter seeking a temporary power-cut by the TVK party itself.
05:42The
05:57TVK chief Vijay
06:04It's been a long time for 20 days, 20 days, it's been a long time for 20 days.
06:09While posters condemning TVK chief Vijay, showing him with a blood-stained hand,
06:14have been put up in Karoor by the Tamil Nadu Students Association,
06:19social media is rife with speculation theories of hurried cover-up attempts.
06:25Tamil Nadu chief minister has issued a request to restrain from spreading misinformation online.
06:31Political parties too have been cautioned by the Tamil Nadu chief minister to be vigilant about crowd management in future.
06:56As of the time and time and time and time,
07:03all of the time was to return to the official government,
07:06we are not in need for any work that we lead to.
07:11Union Finance Minister Nirmala Sitaraman visited the stampede spot at Karoor and met victim families and injured.
07:41Tamil Nadu police has lodged FIR against top leaders of TVK, but has not mentioned the actor-turned-politician Vijay in it.
07:53Bureau Report, India Today.
07:58A killer stampede takes 41 lives. What we've seen ever since is a slew of politics and zero accountability.
08:05I want to cut across to our panelists this evening. I have with me Mr Ray Salwanan, Spokesperson DMK,
08:12Kowai Satyan, Spokesperson AIDMK, Somansi Raman, Political Analyst, Shekhar Raya, Senior Journalist, Political Analyst.
08:19The TVK has refused to be a part of this debate, ladies and gentlemen.
08:24I want to quickly cut across first to our political analyst to get a better understanding on what we're actually witnessing.
08:30Somansi Raman, the fact is we'd seen rally after rally of the TVK and actor Vijay, and this was something which was always anticipated.
08:41That, you know, maybe possibly it was in the coming because the kind of chaos that we'd seen,
08:48and especially with what had happened in the last rally where there was one death.
08:52Larger question, Somansi Raman, stems from the fact, do you see any accountability being fixed at all?
08:58Number one, you see a slew of politics, everyone going behind actor Vijay.
09:02On the other hand, zero accountability, be it fixing accountability with the TFK or TVK or with the government.
09:11Look, it's very, very unlikely that accountability will be fixed on any individual.
09:17Last time, the very same retired judge carried out an inquiry, the people who were indicted by the commission of inquiry were given promotion.
09:30IPS officers were actually promoted by the government.
09:33People were indicted by the very same retired judge and they were actually promoted.
09:38So, anyway, that apart, look, the bottom line is very clear.
09:44The fault lies on both sides.
09:47With the TVK, their crowd organization has been appalling.
09:51There is no doubt about it.
09:53Multiple occasions, as you rightly said, this was predicted at several rallies even earlier.
10:00It is just God's grace that it didn't happen before this particular tragic incident.
10:06So, the point is, they have violated the rules which were given to them by the police, the norms.
10:12So, clearly, they are accountable.
10:14Having said that, the way the state government, the ruling party is trying to portray as if it is only Vijay's fault.
10:21No, sir, it is not only Vijay's fault.
10:23It is the local administration also totally responsible as well.
10:28Look, if the police felt that permission was granted for 10,000 people, 20,000 people have come up, why can't you restrict further entry to the location?
10:39Now, you can say, Vijay will say then that, you know, that the government is scared of him.
10:45That's a political charge.
10:46You have to handle it.
10:47You can't say, I'm going to allow 40 people to die because, you know, Vijay will make some political charges against us.
10:53The ruling party in every state is responsible for law and order and crowd control at public events.
10:59The buck stops with the state government and the local administration.
11:03Vijay and the TVK must be prosecuted and must be brought to book for the various lapses, especially for, you know, violating the timing which was allotted to them and the various other criteria.
11:19But by no means…
11:19Mr. Raman, your time is up.
11:21We go over the two-minute timer.
11:22I'll circle back to you on this.
11:24Shekhar Iyer, I want to bring you in.
11:26Of course, zero accountability fixed.
11:27As Somansi Raman says that that was expected.
11:30Nothing is really going to happen.
11:31But what it's also done, Shekhar Iyer, it's exposed the fault lines which till now at least were hidden where Tamil Nadu politics was concerned.
11:39You can openly now see where, which party stands in this divide.
11:45Indeed, Prithee, you know, the unsaid part is this.
11:49DNK leadership has been quite rattled by the kind of impact Vijay has been making in the last few months.
11:55And particularly after he took to this kind of road show, crowds have been coming.
12:00Maybe it's largely because they want to see their favourite actor.
12:04But at the same time, this particular road show was in Karur.
12:08Karur is the home ground of a very powerful DNK minister, Sendhil Balaji.
12:14He has made headlines because he continued even as a minister after arrest and he's close to the chief minister's talent.
12:21So, therefore, all the eyes are on, did the supporters of Sendhil Balaji have a role in all those incidents that are being alleged to have taken place and which have been mentioned?
12:33The petition that this party has filed in the Madurai bench of the Madras High Court.
12:38Saying that, I mean, we also saw a video of a slipper being thrown, some people being pushed, a kid being lost in the crowd.
12:47There are several incidents which are related to this and also the power cut which has been denied by the Tamil Nadu government.
12:53Obviously, but at the same time, you can see one more thing.
12:58The DNK leadership is not in a hurry to prosecute Vijay.
13:02Less that, you know, some kind of a sympathy factor starts.
13:06Right now, he's seen as a villain of the peace.
13:08But they are also very careful and that's why Stalin's today video appeal also, you know, not to go for Richard against Vijay without mentioning him because posters have come up accusing him as some kind of a killer.
13:23So, the DNK would like to see that this incident is used to curb the influence of TVK but at the same time, not hurt Vijay personally.
13:34I mean, they are being very careful now. That's why they keep saying we will wait for this one-man commission of report.
13:40But on the face of it, there have been violations by TVK and the crowd management but at the same time, the local police administration and civil administration…
13:49Fair point. Fair point. Let me take that question to the DNK spokesperson, Mr. Ray Sarwana.
13:54Now, Mr. Ray Sarwana, there is no denying that today the TVK is responsible with what went down on Saturday, claiming 41 lives.
14:05Responsible, yes, but not wholly responsible, Mr. Sarwana, because your government, which governs policing, administration, needs to shoulder some of that responsibility too.
14:14Yeah. See, if you look at the timeline of the events, if you look at what had happened there, it will clearly establish that this tragedy should be squarely put on the TVK.
14:29The only question that remains still unanswered by the TVK or anybody who is trying to throw muck around the state government or the local administration is this.
14:42Why there was this delay? Why this deliberate delay? Nobody seems to answer that and this tragedy can be directly attributed to that delay.
14:51The social media handles and their general secretary, Mr. Busi Anand claimed that he will be there at 8.45 and 12 p.m. at Karoor, but he starts only at 9 a.m.
15:02So, this was a planned one. Probably, they were not able to attract crowds, to attract this crowd and this has happened.
15:09And at the last point, the ADGP was on record stating that the local DSP was advising, continuously advising the organizers.
15:19Please don't. Please don't. Please don't move further. Do your speech here. Do your rally here. Probably a few kilometers away from the tragic place.
15:31But they refused. They point-blankly refused. And all these conspiracy theories fiddled by the TVK and everybody who have got credentials against the state government are proved to be wrong.
15:42Everything. Everything. There are several media houses, which have given a minute-by-minute blow-by account of what had happened, how it went, how it was, went into the last minute at the tragic incident.
15:59Nothing. There is no foul play here. And these conspiracy theorists and the chief minister has warned that these kind of conspiracy theories, they will be dealt with severely.
16:09This is a tragic incident. And look at the way they have run to the court. Why have they run to the court? They have run to the court with blatantly false accusations.
16:20Mr. Sarwana, nobody is subscribing. Sir, your time is up for two minutes. Nobody is subscribing to conspiracy theories.
16:25One is only looking at what really happened that day. You say that there were not too many people. That's why he came in late.
16:31The sheer fact that the local administration thought that there is going to be a groundswell of people, over 10,000.
16:37That is why some extra police personnel were sent. Were those extra police personnel actually enough?
16:42Was 500 police personnel enough to contain crowds, which were over 20,000?
16:47Yes, the TVK is at fault. But the policing, the administration, sir, is equally your domain as well.
16:53So nobody is subscribing to, right now, any conspiracy theories on what happened or was there sabotage.
16:59One is plainly looking at a killer stampede that has taken place.
17:02And on the virtue of that, who takes accountability? I'll come back to you on that.
17:07Kowai Satyan from the AIDMK wants to come in and make a point.
17:10Go ahead, sir. Your two minutes start now.
17:17Mrs. Satyan, you wanted to come in? Go ahead, sir.
17:19Can he hear us?
17:24Mr. Kowai Satyan, can you hear me?
17:28There seems to be an audio, there seems to be an audio connect problem with the AIDMK spokesperson.
17:32We're going to cut across to him, but I want to bring in Sumanse Raman back into this conversation.
17:36Sumanse Raman, the question that I had asked Mr. Raiya as well, because what it's also done is,
17:40you know, that in tragedy, what this tragedy has exposed are fault lines that lay well hidden,
17:46at least till now, between the political dynamics of various parties.
17:50And that is quite out in the open.
17:53Yeah, and I think that it's very, very unfortunate that politics is being played over the lives of 40 people.
18:00I mean, this kind of an incident at a political rally has never happened before in Tamil Nadu.
18:05And despite that, all that we're seeing, within hours of this incident, there were posters which were put up condemning Vijay.
18:14Some of them were, you know, were from the ruling party itself, saying some students association and so on.
18:21So, what are we talking about?
18:25These are the, first of all, let's be very clear briefly.
18:29Nobody, except, you know, absolute, you know, conspiracy theorists and all that,
18:35who need to be dealt with severely, as the chief minister said, is saying that the DMK caused this.
18:41But, there is more than enough evidence to say that they are playing politics on this event, on this issue.
18:47Half a dozen ministers go, there was an illicit liquor tragedy in Tamil Nadu, in Kaldakpur, she nearly 50-60 people died.
18:55How many of these ministers visited?
18:57When did the chief minister go there?
18:59Within four hours, five hours of this incident, he takes a special aircraft, rushes to Karur.
19:03Half a dozen ministers come there.
19:05One or two ministers are in tears and are, you know, in front of the cameras.
19:11And what is going on?
19:12Seriously, the kind of tarnishing that their own, you see, we have a fraternity called the DMK.
19:17DMK journalists in Tamil Nadu, which is large part of the mainstream media.
19:21We call them DMK journalists.
19:22They are, quote, unquote, propagandists, but they work officially as journalists.
19:26So, they're kind of putting out, one of them actually put out a post of a photograph of Vijay smiling,
19:34taken at a rally which happened a week ago.
19:37And asked the question, you know, which was very, very improper.
19:43So, I think that what is happening is, clearly they are out to gain political mileage out of this.
19:48It's a tragedy.
19:50They are also culpable, just like the TVK and Vijay have to answer multiple questions.
19:58Kowai Satyin is with us.
20:00Mr. Satyin, you wanted to come in for, go ahead, sir.
20:03Two minutes.
20:09Okay, I think there's an audio problem where Kowai Satyin,
20:12every time he wants to come in for an interjection,
20:14and then he doesn't, can't seem to hear me.
20:17I'll come to you.
20:18I want to bring in Shekhar Iyer into this conversation.
20:20Shekhar Iyer, you know, there is a point that Mr. Suman C. Raman was making.
20:25It's interesting because the huge tragedy happened.
20:27The DMK did not quite act with the same amount of alacrity that we have seen them in this.
20:32So, there is a clear attempt.
20:33They've got TVK Vijay on the back foot, who they claim, this is what the DMK,
20:38DMK practically claims is the team B of the BJP.
20:41And they, right now, where the DMK is seemingly, is going all out to politicize the issue.
20:48And I'll come to you, Mr. Sarun, and I know you want to come in with your response.
20:51But go ahead, Mr. Raiyar.
20:53Initially, the DMK was very happy with Vijay's foray into politics.
20:59Because they felt this would divide the opposition votes.
21:03At least the anti-DMK votes would get divided.
21:05But what has happened is, ever since he lost his party two years ago,
21:09and since then, what we are seeing is, he could pose a danger to the DMK itself.
21:16Because of the kind of crowds he has been growing.
21:18And mostly, in the age groups of first-time voters to mid-20s or even late-30s.
21:24And particularly, he has been attracting a lot of women crowd in all his meetings and rallies.
21:31And that may be because of his cinema or his films.
21:34But definitely, it has been worrying the DMK leadership for some time.
21:38Now, the good part is, Vijay has been declaring himself that he is opposed to BJP and he is
21:44opposed to ADMK.
21:46ADMK, because of its alliance with the BJP, and his political rivalry is with the DMK.
21:51This is what he has been saying.
21:53But since this strategy, you can see that, you know, there are several things happening
21:57in the background.
21:58See, Rahul Gandhi spoke to Vijay.
22:01And he also spoke to Stalin.
22:04I mean, I don't think the DMK would be very happy that Rahul Gandhi has chosen to speak
22:11to Vijay.
22:12Look, there is a section in the Congress which has been sounding the central leadership that
22:17why not explore the possibility of some kind of an understanding with Vijay if the deal with
22:22the DMK runs into trouble in terms of number of seats and also in terms of particular constituencies.
22:29There is definitely an undercurrent that will not immediately play out.
22:33But as soon as this story about this tragedy, you know, fades from memory, the politics is
22:39going to scatter center stage.
22:41And it could see new alignment.
22:42And at this moment, Vijay needs friends.
22:44He needs new friends.
22:45He can't have a lonely furrow at this juncture.
22:48You know, I just want our guests to stay with us.
22:52There's news break coming in on the story.
22:54Two TVK leaders have now been arrested by the Chennai police for spreading Karoom rumours.
22:58What does it really mean of spreading Karoom rumours?
23:02Earlier, TN Chief Minister, of course, Mr. Stalin, through a video message, had appealed
23:07against misinformation.
23:09And now it does seem that two TVK leaders have been arrested by the Chennai police for spreading
23:14rumours or misinformation.
23:16What's all the more interesting, and I want to cut across to our DMK spokesperson in this,
23:21sir, is that no arrests have really been made in terms of who's accountable for the
23:27stampede, but arrests already being made of TVK leaders for what the government alleges
23:32is spreading of misinformation.
23:34How does it all add up?
23:35Yeah, see, what's very, very important is this conspiracy theorists.
23:46You have said that we don't subscribe to this conspiracy theorists.
23:49Well and good.
23:50But that is not what that is happening on the ground.
23:52There is a deliberate campaign that is going on, that it is made because the TVK leaders,
23:58they are afraid to take responsibility.
24:00They are into hiding.
24:02They don't want to come out in the public.
24:03And as I told you, they have filed a case with fake and false allegations only so that
24:11these conspiracy theories, these conspiracy theories can be propagated out in the open and the
24:18chief minister has warned them, but still they have been going on propagating this theory
24:23that the DMK is responsible for this and all that.
24:27That is the reason action has been followed.
24:29See, the one-man commission is inquiring, the police are inquiring into, investigating into
24:34an allegation of culpable homicide not amounting to murder.
24:39And the most important aspect is this.
24:42Every single aspect is on record.
24:44But Mr. Sarwana, the larger question in this also is what will a one-man commission actually
24:49detail?
24:50The larger call is have a bigger commission, have a larger bench.
24:55What will, and that is something which has been picked up by the BJP as well.
24:59What does a one-man commission prove?
25:01They feel that it is going to be a DMK Strooge.
25:05So why did they send Hema Malini to have a report?
25:10Why Hema Malini, sir?
25:12Yeah, they have sent a commission.
25:14They have sent a committee under Hema Malini to inquire into this.
25:16What will the committee do?
25:18And there are a number of stampedes where the BJP has not done.
25:22See, the BJP has nothing to speak on this.
25:24They have no moral right.
25:26But Mr. Sarwana, you know, to bring in Hema Malini in this and the committee that they
25:32have sent is separate.
25:33But the larger demand is that why just a one-man commission?
25:36It is not about the one-man commission.
25:40She is heading it to find out ways and means so that these things, these incidents would
25:45not happen.
25:46It's a fact-finding mission.
25:47That is one aspect.
25:48The other aspect is the criminal investigation.
25:51They have been booked under culpable homicide not amounting to murder.
25:53Three persons have already been named.
25:55Madhya Lagan, Hussi Anand, and one more person.
25:58They have been TV Kendrin Malkumar.
25:59They have been named.
25:59So, investigation will go on.
26:02And if there is evidence, when we find evidence, the long arm of the law will take care, take
26:09its course.
26:10And now, this is something.
26:11This is something else.
26:13See, you are trying to create panic.
26:14You want to politicize.
26:15That's what I'm saying.
26:16The TVK is unable to take responsibility.
26:18And Mr. Vijay is still silent.
26:21He's still silent.
26:22He has not come out.
26:23He has not met anybody.
26:25He has not expressed remorse.
26:26Nothing has come out.
26:28But still, these people, they want to divert everything.
26:31They want to ensure that the attention is diverted from their wrongdoings, their misdoings.
26:39They propagate false information.
26:40All right.
26:41So, the crackdown has started against this false information.
26:43Okay, Kowai Satyan from the AIDMK.
26:45I think we finally have him.
26:46He wants to come in very quickly.
26:48Mr. Satyan, make your point, sir.
26:49Then we need to go into a break.
26:50The actions by DMK has not infused confidence.
26:59Then every nook and corner of Tamil Nadu, the common men have started to ask questions on the lapses.
27:04The lapses of the DMK government that led to this diaspora, the way they handled the aftermath of these incidents.
27:10Fearing the approach from the common men, from all the corners on social media,
27:14MK Sun is so scared, he is coming and giving a subtle threat, stating that we are monitoring the social media.
27:20Don't talk anything.
27:21We will take action.
27:22So, he is sending a threat, indirect threat to people not to watch their point of view or point of opinion.
27:27It is in the same debate yesterday.
27:29DMK Surroundants said there were no lathe charge.
27:34And it would take the video to the police lathe charge.
27:40Sir, there is a problem with your audio connect, but okay, I am going to give 20 seconds to Mr. Sarvanan to answer.
27:46We are having a problem with your network, sir.
27:48Mr. Sarvanan, you have 20 seconds before I go into a break.
27:51See, when the false informations, the conspiracy theories try to destroy the fabric of the society,
27:59of whatever that is there, definitely the government has to intervene.
28:03And whatever the allegations, the allegations made by the other team that the police has not done the job or not,
28:10everything has been clearly explained.
28:12We have been advised to stop.
28:14Okay, I would like to give in 20 seconds each to both our other guests.
28:17Mr. Sumansi Raman, you wanted to come in quickly, sir.
28:19Politically, politically, Preeti, I think this is a miscalculation by the DMK to politicize this to the extent they have.
28:25A weakened Vijay is more likely to seek alliances, which he had rejected earlier, meaning AIA-DMK.
28:34And mark my words, AIA-DMK plus Vijay plus PMK will sweep the elections with or without the BJP.
28:43Alright, I want to quickly give in 20 seconds to Mr. Raya.
28:46Go ahead, sir.
28:47Make your final points.
28:47Yeah, I think the whole strategy of the DMK would be, I mean, as well as of the government,
28:54would be to bring more pressure on Vijay to pipe down his politics so that, you know,
29:00the threat to the DMK votes is somehow contained.
29:04That is a strategy that's happening.
29:06Right.
29:06You know, we're going to leave it at that.
29:08Will actor Vijay be able to bounce back from this setback is something we're going to be looking at very closely.
29:13Elections still a while away from here on.
29:16And what does it entail politically is something we'll be studying very closely in the state of Tamil Nadu.
29:21Right now, of course, a huge setback.
29:23And especially of how he has responded to the stampede has raised even more questions by really not responding at all.
29:30Thank you, all our guests, for joining us.
29:32Our latest news break right now coming in from Ladakh.
29:35Lays Apex body to boycott talks with the centre.
29:38Demand of judicial probe into the death of four people during September 24th.
29:43Violence has not been met and that is why the group has decided to boycott the talks with the centre.
29:49The group had also demanded an apology from the centre for calling the people of Ladakh anti-national.
29:54The next round of talks between the centre and representatives of Ladakh, including members of the Lays Apex body and the Kargil Democratic Alliance,
30:02was scheduled for October 6th.
30:04As of now, what we've been given to understand that the Lays Apex body has boycotted, refused to talk with the centre on two grounds.
30:13Number one, their demand of a judicial probe into the death of four people during September 24th.
30:20Violence has not been met.
30:22The group has also demanded an unconditional apology from the centre for calling the people of Ladakh what they say was anti-national.
30:31I want to quickly cut across to my colleague, Mir Fareed, who's going to break it down for us because clearly Ladakh continues to be on edge.
30:38Amir, Lays still in curfew and the latest coming in that the Lays Apex body has decided they are not going to talk to the centre.
30:48Break it down for us.
30:49What does this mean now?
30:50Well, this means deadlock in the coming days.
30:58The centre will now have to work hard to restore the confidence, trust of the Ladakhis and especially the Apex body on the dialogue process.
31:06Because I've been here from the last five, six days and speaking to a cross-section, they say that they have this sense of betrayal.
31:14They say that the talks that have happened from the last four years have been mostly on peripheral issues.
31:18The main issues, issues which are at the heart of it is statehood, then the sixth schedule where the demanding tribal rights and then basically these two are the major issues.
31:30And they say that the centre has been dilly-dallying and these are time-wasting tactics and now the anger which really poured on the roads in the form of violence was not because they were wrong.
31:42It was because the centre did not heed and it did not fulfil its promises because it is the BJP government too which had promised them that they will give them because these are genuine demands within the constitution of India.
31:56So there is anger and then obviously what has not helped things is the violence, the casualties, Preeti, four people have been killed and that has led to a lot of anger.
32:06People are angry because they believe that this kind of violence, it could have been treated or taken control through non-lethal means.
32:14Firing was not needed and that really has only added fuel to the fire.
32:19And then lastly the arrest of Sonam Wangchuk which again they are calling it witch hunt saying that that again was something that the centre through that sent this message to the people that now they will come down hard.
32:34And on one hand while the centre says dialogue but the actions on the ground suggest that they do not want that, they want to suppress this.
32:43And the arrest of Sonam Wangchuk is being seen on those lines so people are unhappy, Ladakh is on the edge and it is definitely now a big mission as far as the BJP government is concerned to restore confidence, trust and firstly to remove restrictions and also importantly release the people.
33:05There have been random arrests, people feel that the people who have been arrested, the youth, they were not involved in violence.
33:11Well, some could have been but there have been random arrests and that's something that they are now saying that they need to release these people and they have put forth four demands.
33:20Basically, number one, release the people who have been arrested, youth post that violence, unconditional release of Sonam Wangchuk and then they are also saying that curfew should be lifted and before, in fact, once these demands are met then only they can think of returning to the dialogue.
33:41So, it seems that people right now are angry, the epic body has also sensed it and they definitely feel that the sentiment right now is that dialogue should not happen, first the centre should clear there as far as the anti-national comments are concerned because not just Sonam Wangchuk, in a way they have blamed the people of Ladakh for being anti-nationals which it seems has hurt them the most.
34:09Preeti?
34:10Alright, Mir, you know, we're going to continue to come back to you for more updates on the story but Mir, just a short while back, spoke to Sonam Wangchuk's wife, Dr. Gitanjali Yangmo, CEO of Himalayan Institute of Alternatives, Ladakh.
34:22In this exclusive interview, she talks about how she's waiting still to speak to her husband who's been detained under the stringent NSA.
34:30Listen in.
34:31He was very weak after the 15 days of strike and then to be taken, you know, by the police, it's very, very painful and more painful is the fact that for the last 48 hours I have not been in touch with him.
34:53The police here had promised that after the land in Jodhpur they would make him speak to me or they would speak to me but I'm still awaiting the call.
35:03Neither have they given us the detention order.
35:05Not just me but everybody in Ladakh or in India who would hear of these charges would laugh at them because these are absolutely baseless charges.
35:16The whole country has seen that for the past five years he has been leading this movement and this protest in the most peaceful, in the most Gandhian way possible.
35:25Be it his Padhyatras, be it his Anshans and he's always followed the path of, you know, non-violence and peace.
35:35So it is, everybody is, you know, aghast and know that this has been deliberately done to frame him because given his past record and his methods,
35:48he always stood for progress, for science, for innovation, for climate work, for patriotism, working for Indian Army, you know, asking Indians to boycott China.
36:00So everybody knows him as a great innovator, as a patriot, you know, as a nationalist.
36:06So to be taken in NSA, which is the most draconian act, you know, and for public safety, I mean, it is not just to me, everybody knows that this is just have been used by people in power to use the national machinery that they have working for them to unnecessarily defame and frame, you know, the person who is the pride of India.
36:33So, Sonam Wangchuk and I are the people who run this not-for-profit organization in a manner that we do not take even salaries.
36:46So every year, we contribute 50 lakhs to 1 crore of our personal money into these projects.
36:52So we are always welcoming of anyone who wants to look into our accounts, which have been duly, you know, submitted to the registrar of companies, to the IT department.
37:06It would be evident that till date, Mr. Sonam Wangchuk would have contributed not less than 5 CR to the projects that he is doing.
37:13So, when you are giving your own money, then where is the money to launder?
37:19And money laundering is, by definition, using Havala and cash transactions and all of that.
37:26And our bank statements, which are there with the CBI and with the IT, clearly shows that more than 99% of our transactions happen online through bank transfers.
37:37So there is no cash transactions and when we are putting in our own money, where is the money to launder?
37:44You know, so all these are just big words because a common Indian or a common citizen would not have access to these documents and he or she would be, you know, suddenly it would be like defamation happening.
38:01And they are using it as a smoke screen, you know, using this big word. So it was not a CBI raid.
38:07When CBI came here, they said we are fact finding and we were completely cooperative with them and we gave them all the, you know, documents.
38:16And I can have that gentleman, Mr. Vishal, who came here, you know, online to check with him if it was something that was not given to him.
38:24So when you have nothing to hide and when you cooperate and you give all the details, then the only thing and everybody knows that this is the way they use, as I said, the entire machinery, you know, because they are slowly building up and trying to frame.
38:39And it is not something that started, though it might have intensified in the last one month.
38:44But this has started in the last four years, ever since he started his anshan.
38:50You know, they have delayed our registration with the UGC.
38:54Mr. Dharmendra Pradhan, who is the Education Minister of India, openly told me that he will not move our file because still Sonam Wangchuk is asking for sick schedule.
39:04Mr. Dharmendra Pradhan, they have called up all the heads of PSUs and told them not to support us with their CSR funds.
39:11This is those very, you know, we got to know from them.
39:15They have tried to stall all our registrations, including FCRA for HAYAL.
39:20And now they are saying that FCRA has been violated by HAYAL.
39:24It hasn't been because FCRA is needed only for donations.
39:28But the funds that we have received is for research that we conducted for those universities.
39:35And for the government it should be a matter of pride.
39:38Because no foreign university takes research from India.
39:42HAYAL is the only institute which does reverse technology transfer.
39:47All right viewers, things still on the edge where Ladakh is concerned.
39:52Trust India today to get you one up on all developments coming in from there.
39:55With that exclusive interview of Sonam Wangchuk's wife.
39:58SHIN'end CT-
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40:25This process is preverkening
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