- 4 months ago
In this episode of Super 6, the focus is the political fallout from the deadly stampede in Tamil Nadu's Karur, where 41 lives were lost.
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00:00All right, here on Super 6, here on India Today, let's get you all the details of what's coming up.
00:05We're going to be talking about the fallout of the tragedy in Tamil Nadu's Karoor, of the stampede.
00:1241 lives have been lost. We'll have political representatives joining us over the next 30
00:17minutes to tell you exactly who is shouldering responsibility for that tragedy. Let's begin
00:23by taking a quick look at all the top stories. After a thrilling five-wicket victory over Pakistan
00:31in Asia Cup, India refused to take the champion's trophy from the ACC chief from Pakistan's interior
00:37minister Mohsin Nakhui. India's five-wicket win over Pakistan quickly also took on political
00:42significance with Prime Minister Modi likening the victory to Operation Sindhu, saying it's
00:47Operation Sindhu on the games field. Days after ARP Delhi chief Saurabh Bharatwaj dared Surya
00:59Kumar Yadav to donate all his match earnings to the families of the Pelgam attack victims,
01:03the cricketer has announced exactly that, that he will be donating his entire match fee to
01:07them and the Indian army.
01:13France Minister Nirmala Sitaraman visited Karoor and met families of victims and injured
01:17at the government hospital in Karoor. After approaching the Madras High Court and demanding
01:21a CBI probe, Vijay's TV case also lodged a formal complaint with the National Human Rights
01:27Commission, alleging lapses in crowd control and state negligence.
01:35Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Maloney's autobiography gives readers a candid glimpse into her heart
01:40and mind and tells her man ki baat. These are the words from Prime Minister Narendra Modi
01:45as he's written the foreword to the Indian edition of the Italian leader's autobiography.
01:50The autobiography, I am Giorgia, my roots, my principles are set to be launched in India.
01:59The gold pedestal of the Dwara Palaka idols at Shabrimala Temple that went missing has been recovered.
02:04It was recovered by the Devaswam vigilance from a sponsor's relative's property. The pedestal was found
02:11at the residence of a close relative of Undikrishnanpoti, the Bengaluru-based Malayali,
02:16who sponsored the gold plating of the idols in 2019.
02:23The probe has intensified in the Delhi molester Baba arrest case. While he was absconding,
02:29it's turned out that Swami Chaitanya Nanda stayed in hotels which were booked by his disciples.
02:36The Delhi police is therefore searching for these aids. His phones, iPad have all been taken in for
02:43forensic examination.
02:49The I Love Mohammed storm has intensified in Uttar Pradesh. What began as a post-war has now
02:55turned wild and sparking clashes across multiple cities. After the arrest of Tokir Raza,
03:01Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath has also issued a stern warning.
03:10Global rating agency Moody's has reaffirmed India's growth with a rating of stable,
03:17essentially a stable outlook on the back of robust economic growth and external position.
03:23The tariffs making no difference.
03:31U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick has sharpened his attack on India and other trade partners,
03:37stressing that countries should keep their markets open and refrain from actions that harm American
03:41interests. Lutnick said that there's a need to fix countries like India, which he said should react
03:48currently correctly to American interests.
03:50And atrocities against Hindus and Buddhist minorities in Bangladesh continue unabated from temple desecrations
04:01to deadly crackdowns. Atrocities against Hindus in Bangladesh have escalated again, leading to
04:07protests. The Bangladeshi army opened fire on some of these protesters.
04:11All right, let's get all the latest updates that are coming in on the Karur Stampede.
04:30There's a political blame game. You're seeing each side point fingers at the other.
04:35There is an investigation that's underway. And remember, an FIR that's been registered in which you've got TBK leaders
04:40being booked. So far, there's been no action against the district administration.
04:45And the question that everyone's asking, who was responsible for the Stampede?
04:51We don't have answers just yet. But it's also turned, as I said, into a big, big political fight.
04:57And joining me here on India Today on Super 6, we've got our panelists with us.
05:02Darni Dharan, spokesperson of the DMK, is joining me this evening.
05:06We've got Sanjay Sahai, former IPS officer, as well as Murali Dharan Shivalingam, AIADMK supporter.
05:12Mr. Sanjay Sahai, I'd like to begin with you. As a former IPS officer, and I had you, of course,
05:17on my show as well about 24 hours ago, when you were rather critical of the administration as well,
05:23and the handling of how this entire, of this rally itself that led perhaps to the Stampede.
05:3024 hours on, with more details of exactly what transpired, Mr. Sahai, what do you think?
05:37Who really does the responsibility fall on here?
05:40It is very crystal clear. If Vijay does not listen to somebody who has the responsibility, power, and the band-aid
05:48to control Vijay and TVK, as far as the crowd management, as far as the political function,
05:54the whole power is vested in police and the local administration and the state government.
05:59Where is the question that somebody comes out of the blue and runs the nature of crowd gathering
06:04and road shows in whichever way he wants? It does not fit into any framework of crowd gathering,
06:12crowd management, crowd control. So, that's point number one. So, Vijay can be booked for whatever,
06:17in whichever way they want. They could have stopped the function. They could have stopped his travel
06:21from Chennai. They could have 101 things. They could have got into a media blitzkrieg.
06:27See, their representative is a spokesperson battling it out in TV studios or on panel discussions,
06:34whichever way you take it. I think the same effort could have been done by the government
06:38telling that, okay, it is delayed, it will not happen. See, crisis management does not mean that
06:43the crisis should happen and only then the crisis management takes place. Crisis management means
06:48that when we are nearing a crisis, we have the capability to stop and prevent the crisis.
06:54Only to come on your show, I went into all the commissions of inquiry and all the criminal cases
07:00which started from 1992 till today, inclusive of the Karur case. So, there has been one case where
07:06Tamil Nadu government was head responsible but there was no action taken against anybody else.
07:11There is a very clear-cut strand which shows that every single commission of inquiry has found the
07:18government and the local authorities to be negligent. Primarily, the issue is regarding
07:24crowd control. So, it is basically overcrowding which is right there and every single commission of
07:31inquiry. No action has been taken against any officials. That is number one. And there has been
07:36remedial action which has been provided in all these reports. But no remedial action has been taken.
07:42And we are where we are.
07:44Darni Dharan of the DMK is also with us on this broadcast. The concern is, Darni Dharan,
07:49that so far in the AFIR that's been registered, you know, you're seeing TVK leaders being booked.
07:55What about the local administration? Are we trying to suggest that the local administration
07:59has absolutely no responsibility to shoulder when a rally happens in that particular district?
08:05Mr. Sahai, a former IPS officer, is highlighting how crowd control is not Vijay's responsibility,
08:10it's the official's responsibility. Vijay as a political leader, yes, must be held accountable.
08:14No one's giving him a clean shit. But so should the local administration.
08:18Are we giving them a clean shit here?
08:23I'm not giving anyone a clean shit. First and foremost, this incident should not have happened.
08:28And before doing politics, I would like to apologize to the family of those who are
08:33injured and who are killed. I think many of them have lost their children, have lost their
08:38soul, bread-bearing member of the family. It's very, very unfortunate and should not have happened.
08:45But before point, it's very easy to point blame at others. But I'm not even saying that Vijay's
08:52intention was to make the stampede happen. But the whole cross-off of the matter was that
08:57Vijay got carried away and his lack of inexperience was shown. The main reason why the stampede was
09:03happening was because he wanted to show a grander crowd at the point where he stopped. Did he stop at
09:09the point where he was suggested to stop by the police? No. The DSP told Vijay's driver,
09:14don't stop here. He said, stop here. But the driver did not listen, went 500 meters further.
09:19And normally Vijay...
09:19No, but then whose responsibility is it, Danitaran? To ensure he listens.
09:24To ensure he listens. If rules are there and someone's not following it,
09:28it should be enforced. And Vijay's not going to enforce the rules.
09:33No, no, no. I'm coming there. I'm coming there. What I'm...
09:35First, another major mistake which he did this time was, normally he will stand on top of his van
09:41and show left and the right. He will wave left and the right and people will see him and leave.
09:46Today, I'm sorry, when the incident happened on Sunday, he did not walk the podium. He was sitting
09:51inside the van and switched off his light. Normally, when you're sitting inside the first door,
09:55he'll turn on the light, people will see him and go. So, they couldn't have a glimpse,
09:57so they were following him. And again, the administration tried to reach out to him
10:02to say that, don't do this. But because he wanted to show a large crowd, he did not do...
10:07So, he did not listen. So, the two points, he did not listen. And when there are already 40,000
10:11people, 50,000 people, at that point, if you are going to stop the rally, again there is going to be
10:16chaos. And third major blunder which he did was, he made people wait from 8.45 a.m.
10:21It was supposed to sit in Namakal at 8.45 a.m. And then in Karul at 12.30 p.m.
10:29So, people have been waiting since 8.30 in the morning, until 8.30 p.m. 12 hours without food
10:35and no provision for water or food had been made. And shops were closed because, you know,
10:40they were afraid that... You know, I agree. You're right in highlighting all of these blunders,
10:44three blunders that you have highlighted, Dhani Dharan. But who stops these blunders from happening?
10:49And the fourth blunder. That's the fourth blunder. That's the fourth blunder.
10:51Let's say there are 10 blunders. Dhani Dharan, let's say there are 10 blunders. Let's say there are
10:5610 blunders. Whose responsibility is to ensure that these blunders don't happen? Vijay is not in power.
11:05It's a private event. We gave permission, we gave set of regulations. But law and orders under whom?
11:09He approached the court. Listen, listen. We gave conditions. Kamaladu police gave him conditions.
11:15He approached the High Court. What did the High Court say? The conditions are imposed were to make
11:20sure the rally is safe. And then he said, no, we don't want this condition. Then the High Court
11:23clearly told us the responsibility is on you. Again, who imposes the conditions?
11:26I'll come back to the same thing. Imposing conditions, enforcement,
11:30that's not Vijay's responsibility, Dhani Dharan. That's the local administration's.
11:33Police is responsibility. Police and the DMK party has nothing to do with each other. Police
11:40is an institution which is supposed to be non-partisan. So you concede? You concede?
11:45So you concede that there were lapses on the part of the police that need to be looked at?
11:48No, I'm not. I'm not conceding that. I'm not conceding that. What I am trying to say is,
11:51the same venue, three weeks back, ADMK had a rally. Right? In Tamil Nadu's history,
11:561945 until today, everyone had rallies. MGR had more people. Kalenya had more people.
12:00Anna had five, six times more people than Vijay has had. Why never such incidents happened?
12:06Because Vijay is setting a very wrong precedent. Why has it not happened in any other political
12:12rally in Tamil Nadu or rather in the country? Prime Minister Modi has uttered huge rallies.
12:16Two weeks back, DMK's Muppermola happened in Karur. Five lakh people congregated.
12:22One lakh, one million people came for Uzi Nidhi's youth rally in Salem in 2024.
12:26PEPs. Why nothing happened? I have been to those rallies. Because every party was responsible.
12:32Vijay's party, another major problem is they do not have...
12:34My problem is also that there was a challenge as far as the local administration goes, which we're not
12:50willing to accept here. I'll bring in... I'll come to you, Dhanidharan. I'll come back to you. Let me give
12:55Lulidharan also a chance now. Okay. Daridharan quickly, please. So last time when I was
13:01issued two weeks back when police had imposed conditions and had told that it can't happen
13:06here in this location, happen in other locations, dates were changed. You said if your party afraid,
13:10you asked me this question, is your party afraid of Vijay? Right? If you had not given permission
13:15for the rally, the police would have been told that they're acting in a partisan manner and
13:20supporting the DMT and afraid of Vijay. No, okay. So, okay. Let's put it this way. Let's put it this
13:24way. Okay. Let's put it this way. If the police and if there was a public statement that was issued
13:28saying that, look, the time limit within which Vijay was supposed to hold his rally hasn't been met,
13:33where was the room to then say, are you afraid of Vijay? Because you've said this is the granted
13:37time for his rally. I'll bring in Murali Dharan Shivalingam also on this broadcast. Murali Dharan,
13:41your comments, you know, there's all of this talk about whether there was a conspiracy,
13:44which is what the TVK is claiming here. They're claiming sabotage. They're claiming conspiracy led to the
13:49stampede. What do you think? Ashita, sorry to tell you, the police force in a DMK regime
13:56is a total blunder. It's not one blunder, two blunder. I can give you many instances.
14:00You go back to the air show, which we had in Marina, five people lost their life. When the
14:05intelligence officer was supposed to be in the field, the police intelligence officer, he was
14:09sitting next to the chief minister and he was enjoying the show. This was the first, you know,
14:14mishap which happened. After that, the Kallakurchi, we all know that 50 people died. And Mr. Dharan
14:19will tell us that, you know, police were not aware that illicit liquor was thriving there for many
14:25years. And that becomes, you know, the second blunder. Then after all these, you know, there was a
14:32there was a hit job of a Dalit leader in Chennai. And the police, you know, hurried the inquiry and they
14:40hushed it up in such a way, they encountered the prime suspect. And that matter has been,
14:45the High Court has taken cognizance of the matter and they have referred it to the CPI for an inquiry.
14:51So the, if you talk about police force in Tamil Nadu, it's in complete shambles. This is their
14:57responsibility. Whose responsibility for all the lives? It's their responsibility. In fact, the High Court,
15:02just a week ago, in the same matter said, why don't you form guidelines? Not just, you know,
15:08safety of the people. Even if the people come to a rally and they damage public property,
15:13they should be penalized. The party should be penalized. Did they do it? No, they were busy.
15:17They were busy sending ambulances. This is not the first instance, Sakshita. I mean,
15:23they had done this with the Edda Party's meeting also. Every time Edda Party has a road show.
15:27See, these are not meetings. This is not a, you know, public space meeting or a conference.
15:32These are like roads. It's like he's making, he's on a tour. He's just visiting that city and he's stopping
15:37by and he's making a speech. And whenever Edda Party did this, they used to send an ambulance in
15:41between just to disrupt the proceedings. So this is, this is an habit. This is an habitual. And we will,
15:48we should hold DMK and their, you know, administrators completely responsible. This
15:55is cold-blooded murder class. They are responsible for this. No, but so is Vijay. I'm sure you'll
16:00concede, Mulidaran, that also Vijay, TVK must be held accountable. It's no one side that can be
16:06linked here. Vijay is responsible. He had asked for one space. He was not given that space. He was
16:11given a different space where Annamalai came in his defense yesterday and said, Annamalai,
16:16this place can't even hold 5,000 people. How can they give this place for 10,000 people? And more
16:2115,000, 20,000 people landed there. Obviously, it's chaos. And Annamalai hails from Karur.
16:26Then other gentleman who hails from Karur is Sendhil Balaji. So there's too many, you know,
16:32questions it throws up because there were three, four ambulances which are roaming around this place
16:37anticipating such a missile. So that's just shocking, right? There's something wrong, seriously.
16:43Dadidharan, your response to this?
16:45The other two options which the TVK sought, where only single lane road, the pictures are visible
16:52everywhere in X platform as well as in news channels. I think you can also get access to
16:58those and show that. The only reason why this venue was given is this is a large venue compared to all
17:05the venues there. Ideally, you should not be doing road show in one place in the district. You should be
17:11doing a four-four point which you also suggested. But they outright rejected that, right? Because
17:16normally, and another reason is, why did people congregate in Dutch street? Simply because he was
17:22not standing up the podium. He was sitting inside and turned off the lights of his caravan. And people
17:27from 10 kilometers, 20 kilometers are following him for them to have a glimpse. That is what results.
17:33And then when he started throwing the water bottles, then people wanted to catch the water that he gives.
17:37And again, law and order in Tamil Nadu has drastically improved as per NCRB data under the DMK government.
17:42Unfortunately, in this country, stampede are happening and it should not happen. We need to have an
17:46All India Committee to describe why it happened, what happened during Summela. In Bhatras, I raised the
17:51issue that Ole Baba… You've raised… That's the irony of it, Dadidharan. In each of these stampedes,
17:58where the authorities were questioned, in this case, you're saying authorities not to be questioned.
18:02I'm not saying that. I never said authorities could be questioned or not be questioned.
18:07No, if you have TVK leaders who are booked, you have TVK leaders who are booked, equally responsible
18:13is the Karur administration. We're waiting for an investigation on one hand, but not on the other.
18:19No, no, no. An FAR has been filed. A charge sheet has not yet been filed. And there's also one
18:25member judicial committee. So even the district officials will be investigated or be questioned.
18:31And based on who was wrong, action will be taken and no one will be spared. Why will we protect
18:36anyone who was wrong? No one will be spared. That is not a point. But when the Bole Baba incident
18:40happened, UP, I said the district magistrate should be sacked. The local SP should be sacked. And all
18:44the news channels, including the UP government said, Bole Baba is private or even. He was reckless.
18:49Instead of 80,000 people, he called 2.5 lakh people.
18:51No, sir. If you're demanding it, you should walk the talk now. No. You should walk the talk now.
18:55Anyway, I've run out of time. Mr. Sanjay Sahai, last word to you. Last word to you,
18:59Mr. Sanjay Sahai. You've heard, of course. Go ahead, sir. I think it is too much of a
19:04political talk. And I don't think anybody is really interested in setting this mark in order.
19:11And the responsibility of… One second, one second. One second, sir.
19:19Hold on. One second, sir. See, how is it so different?
19:25The last few minutes, last few minutes of the discussion. So let's please.
19:30Last few minutes, last few minutes that I have. Mr. Sahai.
19:33See, one thing is very, very clear that no political class or the political entity in this
19:40country is interested in crowd management. Mismanagement is somehow helping them in
19:45whichever manner I am not aware of. There is no question of talking anything about Vijay.
19:50Whatever Vijay has done, not done, the government has complete powers. They could have stopped his rally,
19:56they could have booked him. And I was going through the criminal liability. If you take
20:00criminal liability of Vijay, with the DMK is talking about that he was aware of it, there was no light.
20:05One bottle was thrown and all these things went haywire. The hell broke down. Now, that is the way
20:13crowd management is not done. Let's be very, very clear about it. And this might be one of the rare
20:18occurrences in this country where there is no inquiry ordered against the local administration.
20:23So, straight away in such cases, suspensions happened, departmental inquiry is ordered. This
20:29is certainly at a much worse sort of a situation compared to Bangalore stampede, where Bangalore
20:34commission and variety of other people lost their jobs.
20:36Now, I mean, 41 people. 41 people have died. You can't compare this to any other such tragedy,
20:43because this is the worst such stampede to have occurred at a political event. And that
20:47itself should be enough to wake up the authorities. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining me. Personally,
20:51looking at what's happened almost 48 hours since that stampede, I'm disappointed. Disappointed that
20:56on one hand, you have the Tamaragavetri Karagam, the TVK and Vijay, who so far haven't spoken. There's not
21:03been a single statement from them. The TVK refuses to join any debate right now,
21:06perhaps because they've not figured out exactly what they should be saying, when ideally they
21:11should have come on and shouldered some of the responsibilities, saying it's unfortunate it
21:14happened at our event. So, no, we don't have answers from the TVK. The DMK you've heard there,
21:18they're saying the local administration is not to blame, it's only the TVK. As a result of this,
21:23you've got nobody shouldering the responsibility, saying we will introspect, we will look into what
21:28lessons can be learned from the strategy. That would have been the ideal response that everyone's
21:32looking out for when 41 lives have been lost.
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