- 5 hours ago
CTP (S3EOctSpecial1) Prison to Purpose: Douglas Smith's Redemption Journey
Douglas Smith shares his journey from addiction and incarceration to becoming an author and advocate for those with mental illness and substance use disorders. His book "The Path of Rocks and Thorns: Leadership Lessons from a Prison Cell" explores how true transformation comes from internal reckoning rather than external validation.
• Born in Princeton, New Jersey and eventually settled in Austin, Texas
• Earned a social work degree and worked in public policy before addiction led to prison
• Served six years of a 15-year sentence for robbery charges related to his addiction
• Found meaning in prison through reading Dante's Inferno and connecting with others
• Discovered that collecting certificates for parole hearings was less valuable than genuine self-transformation
• Now focuses on developing leaders among people with experiences of mental illness, substance use disorder, and incarceration
• Planning a future book addressing "imposter syndrome"
• Available at d-degree.com for contact and more information
Douglas Smith shares his journey from addiction and incarceration to becoming an author and advocate for those with mental illness and substance use disorders. His book "The Path of Rocks and Thorns: Leadership Lessons from a Prison Cell" explores how true transformation comes from internal reckoning rather than external validation.
• Born in Princeton, New Jersey and eventually settled in Austin, Texas
• Earned a social work degree and worked in public policy before addiction led to prison
• Served six years of a 15-year sentence for robbery charges related to his addiction
• Found meaning in prison through reading Dante's Inferno and connecting with others
• Discovered that collecting certificates for parole hearings was less valuable than genuine self-transformation
• Now focuses on developing leaders among people with experiences of mental illness, substance use disorder, and incarceration
• Planning a future book addressing "imposter syndrome"
• Available at d-degree.com for contact and more information
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to the Constitutionalist Politics Podcast, aka CTP.
00:07I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard, and that's L-E-N-A-R-D.
00:12CTP is your no-must, no-fuss, just-me-you-and-occasional-guest-type podcast.
00:19I really appreciate you tuning in.
00:22As Graham Norton will say, let's get on with the show!
00:25Oh, Douglas Smith. Okay, I have my note here.
00:29You can see I'm holding up.
00:31But Mickey Mickelson, a joint acquaintance of ours who is a publicist out of Canada.
00:40And Douglas Smith, I'll repeat it again.
00:44Hopefully it'll sit right. You got to say it three, four, five times to get it.
00:48This is Douglas Smith, although how hard is it to remember Smith, right?
00:55Is the author of The Path of Rocks and Thorns, Leadership Lessons from a Prison Cell.
01:04This will be interesting.
01:05As I was telling them in the green room, I've had on a couple people that in prison didn't have great experiences.
01:16For the benefit of the transcript and audio, I'm using air quote, great.
01:21But they had a positive, transformative-type situation occur while in prison and, of course, now leading wonderful, great lives.
01:33Hello, Douglas.
01:34Hello. Thank you for having me on your show.
02:07It's an actual, legitimate question.
02:12Go.
02:13Beautiful.
02:14Well, yeah.
02:14So I was born in Princeton, New Jersey.
02:17We moved around a lot.
02:19My dad was unsettled inside.
02:22So therefore, we moved.
02:23Probably lived in about nine different places by the time I was 10 years old.
02:26And we settled on Austin, Texas.
02:30And my parents split because my mom liked Austin and was not prepared to move again.
02:37And so I always say that I moved to Austin the summer that Star Wars came out.
02:44So that's how long ago.
02:47There's a reference for people.
02:49And before we go any further, just tell me you're not a New Jersey Devils fan.
02:54I am not.
02:57I don't watch much hockey.
02:59Okay.
03:00Well, at least you had a clue what I was talking about.
03:04Yeah.
03:04Of course.
03:05You could be a Dallas Stars fan.
03:07Former Minnesota North Stars moved to Dallas, became the Dallas Stars.
03:12There's enough NHL history.
03:15So, indeed, you did spend some time in prison.
03:20Do you want to say for what?
03:22Or do we want to not go there?
03:26No, no.
03:27I mean, I want to be sensitive to it.
03:30I mean, it's sort of the nature of the book.
03:32So, you know, I am a social worker.
03:34I got my degree in social work at the University of Texas at Austin.
03:38I worked in public policy, working in and around the Texas legislature.
03:44And I'm also someone with a co-occurring mental illness and substance use disorder.
03:49And those conspired.
03:50I tried street drugs.
03:52The street took me to prison.
03:55And I committed, out of desperation for drugs at my lowest point, committed four counts of robbery.
04:03And got a 15-year sentence to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.
04:07And I served six of that on the inside and the remainder on parole.
04:15And I've been free of parole for a good two years now.
04:19Oh, you answered the obvious next question.
04:22How much of that did you serve?
04:23So, some good behavior involved in that?
04:29Oh, who knows?
04:29The Texas parole system is too opaque.
04:33Like, it's, you never meet with a parole commissioner.
04:37You meet with a clerk.
04:39They type down your information.
04:41And so, four times in a row, I got turned down for parole.
04:45And basically, it's just the nature of the crime.
04:47It really didn't matter what I was doing with my time, what classes I was taking, things of that nature.
04:54And, in fact, that was actually a really good thing for me because the more I tried to, like, get certificates, go out all these Christian classes and things like this to try to, like, convince the parole commissioners, hey, look, I'm a good guy now.
05:09Right?
05:09It was, you really had to do all of that for a different reason.
05:13You know, something more on the level of, like, really reckoning with yourself, internal transformation.
05:20So, you know, I eventually learned to stop collecting certificates and just do my time and learn to be myself.
05:29Yeah.
05:29Amen.
05:31That transformational experience I was talking about.
05:35Yes.
05:35So, it wasn't a great experience, but it was good that you were sent there.
05:41You are who you are today because of it.
05:44Otherwise, you might be six feet under of a drug overdose.
05:49One hundred percent.
05:51I often bristle when people say prison saved my life because I would love to imagine all of the things that we could have done to save your life prior to prison.
06:01But I will say that I literally would be dead had I not found the back of that police car at that very moment.
06:10And so, yeah, I'm grateful and I wouldn't change it.
06:15Amen.
06:15God working in mysterious ways.
06:17Right?
06:18Hey, I don't like to talk about it often.
06:21And it's not something I'm happy about, not something I'm pleased to talk about, but I feel I must confess to being a suicide attempt survivor.
06:34Right?
06:34Oh, yeah.
06:35I was saved at that point.
06:38In a way, I was born yet reborn yet again as a new person, and God had something for me.
06:47I like to think it's the show, although I'd appreciate a few more listeners.
06:55If you're up there listening, if indeed this is my purpose in life and part I feel calling to do, I'd appreciate some help driving some more people my way.
07:07But anyway, you know, all kidding aside.
07:12Well, you have me on now, so it's just going to be a sensation.
07:15Oh, my listeners will be tenfold, right?
07:21Turn it over to God and he shall multiply it.
07:26Exactly.
07:26Exactly.
07:27Indeed, I view it the same way as me.
07:31God had other plans for you.
07:33And from that came, segue, the path of Rocks and Thorns Leadership Lessons from a Prison Cell.
07:45If I didn't have it written down, I wouldn't be able to remember.
07:50So, did you feel called to write the book now then?
07:56And share these experiences?
08:00Yeah.
08:00So, honestly, it didn't start as a calling.
08:04It started as a lark.
08:06I read a leadership book by a Navy SEAL named Jocko Willink about Navy SEAL operations that went wrong.
08:18And he, as a leader, learning to take full responsibility for it.
08:23And it's a really good book.
08:24People die.
08:25People die.
08:27And I was like, hey, I could write a leadership book.
08:32I could talk about turning points in prison that helped me to enter back into the world of public policy and leadership that really served me.
08:42And I was like, I could do that.
08:44But I'll tell you, when I started to write my story, I didn't realize how difficult that would be.
08:51Like, no one goes into prison happy, well-adjusted.
08:55There were things that led me to prison.
08:58And I had to reckon with it while I was writing.
09:01But that's cathartic to deal with.
09:06It not only helps others, you're helping yourself through that process, which is why I have my how to write a book and get it published.
09:14All kinds of people have stuff in them that even if they don't publish it, get my how to write a book and get it published so you can figure out how to write the book, even if you don't publish it.
09:31Because it's personally cathartic.
09:35Absolutely.
09:36In fact, in my book, so I do discuss leadership lessons, but they're really light.
09:43That is to say, like, I offer it.
09:46It's an invitation to pull it to yourself.
09:48But I always say, you know, your life experience gives rise to leadership.
09:53I'd like to read the book that you want to write about leadership.
09:57And with my book, they can do that.
09:59Yes.
10:00Exactly.
10:01Go get the book today on Kindle.
10:04Yeah.
10:04Kindle print available anywhere books are sold.
10:09Amazon Kindle is the only e-book.
10:11But at any rate, I'm not here to plug my book.
10:16But we don't want to give away all of the path of rocks and thorns leadership lessons from a prison cell by Douglas Smith.
10:26But do you have one you want to share, can share, to entice people to buy the path of rocks and thorns leadership lessons from a prison cell?
10:39Well, can you tell I've been doing this a while?
10:41I know to keep repeating things.
10:45Wow.
10:45Wow.
10:46I love it.
10:47You know, I'll tell you that one of the cool things about it is I always thought of Dante's Inferno when I was writing it.
10:56Right.
10:57I because we did a book club in prison and loved it.
11:02And then people saw me reading it with someone else and everyone would be like, hey, will you read it with me?
11:07And I ended up reading it three times with people.
11:10You know, people are always looking to improve themselves.
11:12But there was just something about it.
11:16That seems to me a perfect book for people behind bars.
11:21Exactly.
11:22It says midway through my life's journey, I found myself in the dark woods, the right road lost.
11:29That I read that and I was like, OK, I'm in.
11:32And the whole metaphor is that Dante couldn't find his way back up.
11:37He had to go through it.
11:38Yeah.
11:39And on the other end of it, he started to climb again.
11:43So that's the metaphor of it is that you go through it.
11:47And so each chapter is.
11:49I'm so glad you use the word metaphor because in the book I'm working on now, I'm calling Project Carpe Diem.
11:56That won't be the title.
11:57By the time this airs, unless I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, that book should be on Amazon print and Kindle exclusive.
12:07I'm calling it Project Carpe Diem.
12:10I go into that and I joke.
12:13I'm far too clever for metaphors.
12:16I use meta sixes.
12:17But I'm bummed.
12:21You like that one?
12:22Oh, my God.
12:23That is the best dad joke.
12:26I love it.
12:26Please let me use that.
12:28It is the perfect author joke.
12:30Just, hey, don't forget where you heard it.
12:33OK.
12:33I'll quote you.
12:34That's right.
12:36I want my accreditation and attribution.
12:39I have no doubt AI scrubbing the web has probably already stolen it and given it to others because I've used it before.
12:48And AI isn't properly accrediting me.
12:52So I need humans to actually give me my attributions.
12:55You can use it in your next book.
13:00Just make sure there's a footnote.
13:02I shall.
13:03I shall.
13:05Because I like to joke, I'm going to write down here humor when I edit the episode.
13:13I wind up putting a banner there of an article I wrote.
13:18Even in my Terror Strikes Coming Soon to a City Near You book, there's a comic relief chapter.
13:25So in a book that deals with terrorism, I put in comedy because we've got to maintain a sense of humor or we'll go crazy.
13:36And at this point in the behind the scenes video, for those watching, popped up will be the online article at The Liberty Beacon that correlates with that also.
13:47Right?
13:49Rabbit hole humor in prison.
13:53Value.
13:54Yes.
13:55Absolutely.
13:56I write about, sometimes you find humor in the weirdest places.
14:01I remember I had to reckon with race.
14:06I had to like, the clash of race was really prevalent.
14:11And I broke the cardinal rule.
14:14And I talk about it in the book.
14:17And that was that a white prison gang was setting up a tattoo parlor and breaking the circuit for the only fan in a hundred degree dorm.
14:30And I broke the cardinal rule and I said to the officers, you've got to do something.
14:39And of course, they walk in looking like they were in a high school play and go directly to that person's bunk to search that bunk.
14:49And then you saw all the people getting up and like the gang members kind of like talking amongst themselves.
15:01And then they fanned out.
15:03It looked like a detective squad going to trying to collect clues.
15:09Hey, did you see this person?
15:10Did you do you have any evidence?
15:12It was it was hilarious.
15:14Yes, of course, I got beaten half to death.
15:19Yeah, because of the moron, Keystone cop ish, idiot, not able to use subtly, not able to use their brain power to understand.
15:32You've got to handle that.
15:34I mean, I've never spent any time in.
15:37I have spent time in a jail overnight, but I've never spent any time in a prison.
15:43A whole other long story there, obviously.
15:46Well, we count that.
15:48We count that.
15:49So you're one of us one day in jail.
15:51That's all it takes.
15:53OK.
15:53Glad to have you as part of the club.
15:56I appreciate that.
15:57That's one more badge of honor.
15:59I'll have to have the tear tattooed on now.
16:05At any rate, but, you know, I mean, that's just common sense.
16:09And it has nothing to do with prison.
16:13Common sense on this entire planet is so rare these days.
16:18Yes.
16:21Yeah.
16:22Well, I'm not even sure what it is anymore.
16:26It's a lost art.
16:28Yeah, exactly.
16:29Yes.
16:30Thank God for irony.
16:32I don't use an iron.
16:37I take them to the cleaners.
16:39Oh, OK.
16:40The jugs keep coming.
16:43My audience knows I cannot pass the lame puns.
16:47Yes.
16:48No.
16:48I have them pressed over at Brown's Cleaners.
16:51Yeah.
16:53That's a shameless plug.
16:54Yeah.
16:55And anyway.
16:55Yeah.
16:56Hey, you owe me $1.50 for the ad.
17:00Time has flown.
17:02And indeed, I call it today's Twitter attention span.
17:05You got to keep things shorter.
17:08People won't watch.
17:09People won't listen.
17:10People won't pay attention.
17:12It's like everybody wants the condensed version.
17:15So let's wrap things up.
17:17Do you have final thoughts on this?
17:21Well, I hope that people will enjoy it.
17:25When I talked about the metaphor of going through, that was really what it is.
17:30It's, you know, I invite people to just, I think part of addiction, part of mental illness
17:38is you're trying to change how you feel.
17:42And that ultimately nearly destroyed me.
17:44And in prison, I learned to actually experience my emotions, to learn about myself, to not
17:53hide, to not change how I feel.
17:56And, you know, on the other end of that, I, the things that mattered before no longer matter.
18:03And I get to go and live my life.
18:05I had a great career in public policy after that.
18:10I was more concerned about investing in other people and not in myself.
18:16And I got to watch them go on to amazing positions.
18:20And today, my life is really developing leaders among people just like me with experiences of
18:29mental illness, substance use disorder, incarceration, trauma.
18:33That's who I spend my time with, investing in that.
18:36Not the proper application, but as a metaphor, it does work.
18:40The remove log from thine own eye.
18:44And indeed, learn to understand oneself, learn to love oneself, to be corny about it, right?
18:54And that all, my sixth book working on right now will be out by, hopefully, by the time
19:00this airs, all about life and living, and all life has value, meaning, purpose.
19:09Whether you see it on a day-to-day basis or ever in your life doesn't mean it's not true.
19:17A small smile that you give another, who then gives another, even if forced, can make somebody's
19:26day better, who might be contemplating suicide, going back to, again, not happy to talk about
19:32being a suicide attempt survivor.
19:35But, and then if their child, I call it the Pantene ad effect.
19:41You know, the shampoo, well, we're both, yeah, don't need, have need a shampoo.
19:47For those on viewing the video, you know what I mean.
19:50But, and I had leukemia in 2010.
19:53I didn't choose the hairdo.
19:54It came out, so I'd shave it.
19:56Save a ton on shampoo and conditioner.
19:59But Pantene, the shampoo, they tell two people, then they tell two people, then they tell two
20:05people.
20:06And pretty soon, you've got a movement, right?
20:09A butterfly effect, also, if you will, right?
20:13That small smile you give to another, who then's child, who wouldn't be her otherwise,
20:21hadn't you given them that smile, goes on to cure cancer.
20:26What little heart did your smile play?
20:32That's beautiful.
20:33I love it.
20:34So, you've got to get my heart.
20:37That's true in the world and in prison, that one smile you can give.
20:42Yes.
20:43Oh, I can imagine.
20:44Yeah, tying it back to that, bringing it back to that.
20:48A smile is, you get more with sugar than vinegar, as the saying goes.
20:53A smile is certainly helpful rather than a snarl, but even a smile might be perceived as a smirk
21:01and get you into trouble.
21:03So, you've got to be careful.
21:05That opens another rabbit hole, begs a question.
21:09Do you have another book in development yourself?
21:13Not currently.
21:14Lee, I'm thinking about something.
21:18I'd love to sort of take down the whole concept of imposter syndrome.
21:22I want to, I keep hearing it among people I work with.
21:25I just want to completely obliterate it.
21:28I hope you do write that.
21:31I'll look forward to having you back in 2026 to talk about that book.
21:37That sounds like fun.
21:39I want to read that book.
21:41Do you have a website?
21:45I do.
21:47It's d-degree, like college degree.
21:51Oh, that's right.
21:52d-degree.com.
21:54I remember seeing that because our email back and forth was, I don't want to give out your email,
22:02but yeah, there's a contact tab at d-degree.com.
22:07I take it people can reach out to you at, right?
22:10Sure, they can, there's a contact way to reach out to me on the website.
22:16So, yeah, I'd love to hear from readers.
22:18Okay, sounds great.
22:21Let me read it again, even though it's a simple name, to make sure I get it right.
22:27Douglas Smith, no middle initials.
22:29So, you already checked there isn't another Douglas Smith author.
22:32Like, I've got to write under Joseph M. Leonard, because there is a Joseph Lenard out of South Carolina, who's also a Christian author.
22:44And it's like, he's not me.
22:46I'm not him.
22:47We are two different people, people.
22:50Douglas Smith and the Path of Rocks and Thorns Leadership Lessons from a Prison Cell.
22:57I'm sure if they remember Rocks and Thorns, they should be able to find it from that.
23:04There's probably other few books with that term in it.
23:07But I'm sure, remember, Douglas Smith, not John Doe, Douglas Smith.
23:14That's right.
23:16It was so great.
23:19Yes, thank you for stopping by.
23:21I really appreciate it.
23:22Take care.
23:22God bless.
23:23God bless you.
23:24Like and subscribe to the Christitutionalist Politics Podcast and share episodes.
23:33We need your help.
23:34Thank you for having tuned in for Christitutionalist Politics Show.
23:39If you haven't already, please check out my primary internationally available book, Terror Striped, coming soon to a city near you.
23:49Available anywhere books are sold.
23:51If you have locally run bookstores still near you, they can order it for you.
23:57And let me remind, over time, the fancy high production items will come.
24:03But for now, for starters, it's just you as a very appreciated listener by me.
24:10All subsets.
24:11No flow.
24:12Just straight to Key Discussion Points.
24:15A show that looks at a variety of topics, mostly politics, through a Christian U.S. constitutionalist lens.
24:24So again, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
24:27Take care.
24:28God bless.
Recommended
1:42:03
|
Up next
1:46:45
0:12
Be the first to comment