Is Cersei The Mad King's Daughter?

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Transcript

00:00Is Cersei a secret Targaryen? It's been a fan theory for quite some time,

00:05and there's actually quite a lot of evidence. Let's take a look.

00:09Hi everyone, this is Robert. Welcome to InDeepGeek. On this channel we cover A Song of Ice and Fire

00:14in full, as well as the wider world of Ice and Fire, Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon,

00:18and Dunk and Egg. Oh, and The Lord of the Rings and The Witcher 2. If that sounds good,

00:23there's a subscribe button in the bottom right of your screen.

00:26I've several times theorised on this channel that Tyrion might be a secret Targaryen. There's

00:33various bits of evidence both for and against that. But if Tyrion might be the Mad King's master child,

00:39might Cersei and Jaime be too? Well, all this stems from the fact that Aerys II, the Mad King,

00:46had a history of being inappropriate with Tywin Lannister's wife Joanna. There were lewd comments,

00:52eyewitness accounts of him taking liberties at the bedding ceremony, rumours of an affair,

00:57and Joanna was even expelled from court soon afterwards by Rhaella, Aerys's wife,

01:02which is what she did with the King's various mistresses. Nevertheless, Joanna was still at

01:07court sometimes. We're told she was there seldom, but not never, and therefore in close proximity to

01:13the King, so it's possible. George R. R. Martin makes it clear in The World of Ice and Fire that the

01:18playing down of the rumours we see there are from Grand Maester Pycelle, who is, as we know,

01:24a bit of a Tywin fanboy, so we can't really take his word on it. So in purely practical terms,

01:30it's at least possible. And it's noticeable that, although Tyrion was given a traditional

01:35sounding Lannister name, just in the couple of generations above Tyrion you get Tywin, Tyget,

01:40Tytos, Tybalt, Tyon, you get the idea, but no Cersei or Jaime anywhere. But are there clues in

01:48the way George R. R. Martin wrote Cersei's character that hint that it's actually true?

01:52Well, she's first introduced as a POV character in A Feast for Crows,

01:57and these are literally the first words we hear from her perspective.

02:01She dreamt she sat on the Iron Throne, high above them all. The barbs and blades of the Iron Throne

02:09bit into her flesh. That's quite an image, and a clear echo of Aerys II, who became known not just

02:17as the Mad King, but also King Scab because of how often he was cut by the Iron Throne. And as I said,

02:23it's the very first image of her we get from her own perspective. But that's not all for the comparisons

02:30with Aerys II, not by a long way. A couple of chapters later we get this when she's talking to

02:35Jaime. After the war I mean to build a new palace beyond the river. She had dreamed of it the night

02:42before last, a magnificent white castle surrounded by woods and gardens, long leagues from the stinks

02:48and noise of King's Landing. This city is a cesspit. For half a groat I would move the court to

02:54Lannisport and rule the realm from Casterly Rock. Aerys II also dreamed of building a white marble

03:02city on the other side of the river, and also literally took his court to Lannisport and Casterly

03:07Rock for a year to rule from there. And then there are the echoes in their lives. Both were imprisoned

03:13for a while despite their high station, Aerys at Duskendale and Circe by the High Sparrow, and both

03:19emerged more paranoid and cruel. Both had three children, two boys and a girl, one of which,

03:24Viserys and Joffrey respectively, was a cruel bully. These three children were with their sibling,

03:30Rhaella and Jaime respectively. They didn't love their spouse, and had a string of other lovers as

03:36well. Of course, the twin-cest thing between Jaime and Circe also just screams Targaryen. History is full

03:44of Targaryens falling in love with and marrying each other. It's worth noting that Jaime and Circe

03:51never seem to find what they are doing shameful. It just seems natural to them, contrary to how pretty

03:57much everyone else in the story feels other than Valyrians. And to add another weird twist to this,

04:03Circe also massively lusted after Rhaegar, who, if this theory is correct, would also be her brother.

04:10Her father had tried to get the two of them engaged when they were young, and years later she still

04:16thinks about the two of them together in an idealised way. But the biggest echo of Aerys II in Circe is

04:23undoubtedly her association with wildfire. The Mad King we know became obsessed with it, and Circe is

04:30continually associated with it in the text. Her eyes are explicitly described as burning green with wildfire

04:37by Sansa, Tyrion and Ned. When she orders the Tower of the Hand burned down by wildfire—the first time

04:44she has seen it used on a large scale she had been indoors for the Battle of the Blackwater—we read

04:49this disturbing passage. It's quite long, but here are the highlights to give a flavour of how it makes

04:55her feel. The Queen could feel the heat of those green flames. It is beautiful, she thought. Circe thought of

05:04all the King's hands that she had known through the years. All of them are burning now, she told herself,

05:11savouring the thought. Circe felt too alive for sleep. The wildfire was cleansing her, burning away

05:18all her rage and fear, filling her with resolve. The flames are so pretty. I want to watch them for a while.

05:26This is somebody becoming obsessed with wildfire. And if we need the point made even more clearly,

05:34we see it from Jamie's perspective, too, as he remembers back to that night.

05:39The green light of the wildfire had bathed the face of the Watchers, so they looked like nothing

05:44so much as rotting corpses, a pack of gleeful ghouls. But some of the corpses were prettier than others,

05:52even in the baleful glow, Circe had been beautiful to look upon. She'd stood with one hand on her

05:58breast, her lips parted, her green eyes shining. She is crying, Jamie had realised. But whether it

06:06was from grief or ecstasy, he could not have said. From having seen what Circe was feeling,

06:13it is clear it was ecstasy. This is how Jamie concludes that thought. The sight had filled him

06:21with disquiet, reminding him of Aerys Targaryen and the way a burning would arouse him. Jamie,

06:28the person who probably knows Circe best, thinks she is becoming like Aerys. And it's hard to disagree.

06:35Even in the twelve POV chapters we have for her, we can see her growing crueler, more delusional,

06:41more paranoid, blaming slights and hurts, real and imagined, on everyone but her, dreaming of revenge,

06:48obsessed with wildfire. Yes, she is becoming like the Mad King. Now, by this point, I'm sure some of

06:56you will have started to wonder, what about Jamie? If Circe is the Mad King's daughter and Jamie is her

07:02twin, then surely he must be his son. But Jamie seems decidedly not like Aerys. In fact, he was so repulsed by

07:11the Mad King that he broke his solemn Kingsguard vow and killed him. And in the main story, Jamie's

07:17character arc seems, so far, one of self-reflection and personal growth. So how could we explain that?

07:24Well, Circe and Jamie are, of course, non-identical twins, so perhaps it's simply that he takes more

07:30after his mother, Joanna. Not all siblings turn out the same. In fact, most don't. And not all Targaryens

07:36turn out to be obsessed with wildfire. And without wishing to over-interpret the text, there is this

07:42intriguing moment when Tywin's sister Jenna, that's Jamie's aunt, spoke some home truths to him in a

07:49feast for crows. Jamie, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile

07:57like Gerion, and fight like Tig, and there's some of Kevin in you, else you would not wear that cloak.

08:02But Tyrion is Tywin's son. Not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me

08:10for half a year.

08:12Gerion, Tig, and Kevin are her and Tywin's brothers, so she knows what she's talking about. But how

08:18literally should we take her assertion that Jamie isn't Tywin's son? Is it just a turn of phrase,

08:24or something more? Incidentally, there's another layer here that we don't yet have enough information

08:30on, because Tywin and Jenna were once close until, in her words, she disappointed him. How? We don't

08:38know. Is it connected to this in some way? Maybe, but maybe it's something else entirely. Feel free

08:45to speculate wildly in the comments below. There is also a fan theory that, as the twins are non-identical

08:51fraternal twins. Perhaps Cersei is Aerys' daughter, and Jaime is Tywin's son. It's biologically possible,

08:59and the phenomenon goes by the name of heteropaternal superfecundation. Unlikely, perhaps, but

09:05not impossible. In any event, the main point here is that Jaime not being like Aerys does not

09:12invalidate the theory that Cersei is his son. And what I find most fascinating about this whole

09:17theory of Cersei being a Targaryen are the implications for the story. For all the focus

09:22on Robert's Rebellion being the end of Targaryen rule in Westeros, actually, it wasn't really.

09:29Robert Baratheon's grandmother was Targaryen. She was the Mad King's aunt, no less. So he was part

09:36Targaryen, an argument the maesters themselves put forward to defend his coronation. Depending on how you

09:42interpret the line of succession, there's an argument that, at the moment he was crowned,

09:46after the deaths of Aerys, Rhaegar, and Rhaegar's children, and before Dany was born,

09:51he was actually second or third in line anyway after Viserys. Obviously, Fagon and Jon potentially

09:57muddy the waters a bit, but this was more of a bloody coup by a member of the extended family

10:02than the start of a completely new royal family. And after Robert came Joffrey and Tommen, Cersei's

10:09children. If she is Aerys's child, that makes them Aerys's grandchildren. And it would mean that

10:16Tyrion, the son Tywin despised and wished that he could disown, might be the only true heir that Tywin

10:22has. Jaime potentially was a kinslayer as well as a kingslayer when he killed the Mad King.

10:28Aerys instructed him to kill his father, Tywin, but Jaime killed Aerys instead. And if Jaime does turn

10:35out to be the Valoncar, the younger brother prophesied to kill Cersei, then he will have

10:39killed both father and daughter who were obsessed with wildfire. It would also add another layer to

10:45Joffrey's character, there now being a reason for his cruel character being so reminiscent of Viserys

10:51and Aerion Targaryen. And Tyrion's description of Joffrey as Aerys III is not actually that far off.

10:58So, with all that in its favour, what could be against this theory? Well, a few things. First,

11:06although we can't conclusively prove that Aerys and Joanna weren't in the same place with the right

11:11timing for this to be true, we also don't have any evidence to suggest that they were. Joanna

11:16and Tywin were married in the year 263, and she was expelled from court soon afterwards,

11:21seldom returning. Jaime and Cersei were born in the year 266, three years later.

11:29And Tywin was clearly committed to Jaime and Cersei as his children. He may not have shown them much

11:35love, but he was very focused on Jaime being his heir and using Cersei to tie his family into the royal

11:42line. He never gives even a hint that they aren't his children. And although Cersei herself certainly

11:48loves wildfire and takes prophecy seriously, in over 12 chapters from her perspective, we don't get

11:54much by way of other Targaryen traits. She doesn't think overly about dragons or dragon eggs or get

12:00dragon dreams or show much of a resistance to fire or heat. Finally, we have to be honest that just

12:08because there are echoes of Aerys in her story, that does not necessarily mean that she must therefore be

12:14his daughter. Perhaps George RR Martin is just warming us up to the idea that she will look to

12:20blow up portions of King's Landing with wildfire. In this context, Aerys' actions would therefore be

12:25foreshadowing for her, rather than an indication of a blood tie between them.

12:31And it's not as if Aerys is the only historical character Cersei is reminiscent of. I've spoken a few

12:36times on my livestreams on my other channel, IDGLive, about how Cersei seems to be being set up to be

12:43reminiscent of Rhaenyra in the Dance of the Dragons. Just watch her go in the Winds of Winter.

12:49In my mind, George RR Martin definitely gives us enough room to believe that Cersei could be the

12:54Mad King's daughter. But not enough yet to say that she definitely is. And it may well be one of

13:00those things that we never actually find out. All the people who would actually know, Joanna, Aerys and

13:06Tywin are all dead, so we may be left to speculate for a while yet. But what do you think? Let me know in

13:14the comments below. If you'd like more videos like this on the world of A Song of Ice and Fire,

13:19there's a playlist on the left of your screen. Or to support this channel, the best way to do that

13:23is by clicking on the link to Patreon on the right of your screen. That's all for this time.

13:28Thanks for watching. I'll see you again soon.

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