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00:00how is it to be called the king of british verticals and british juanchu it's it's
00:07interesting i've been it's been a very long beautiful journey um unpredictable if i've
00:13learned a lot over the last year and a half it's been um very busy back to back i've done 20 now
00:19so um a lot of projects a lot of different stories um very fast paced as you can imagine but yes it's
00:25um i guess it's a privilege to be called it but it's um it's fun it's fun definitely
00:32good um so i understood that uh you are doing verticals and that you are let's say a leader
00:40and a leading figure uh in britney and in england because i think you're london-based right
00:46correct yes based in london yeah um so how uh did you happen to know about verticals
00:53um when did you know about it uh i think it's quite a recent phenomenon so you were one of
00:59the first to let's say bring it to england and uh and britney so how does it work
01:06so the very first one we did was april last year there was a one called mafia lover which is on
01:12drama box now and that was just being a freelance director so obviously being networking and finding
01:18new contacts and knowing lots of producers and i was introduced to a producer um a company called
01:23onset octopus and they're doing lots of different verticals at the moment in the uk and they were
01:29experimenting they had a contact in china and they basically wanted to bring something to the uk and
01:35see if we could shoot something in the uk so they said you want to direct it i said of course let's try
01:40because it was a new format i'd never done much in vertical before any sort of shot features and tv and that
01:46kind of stuff before this um and there it was so that this project came along the script came to my
01:52inbox i read it and it was just complete madness it was very fast and i'd never seen a script like that
01:58before where it was just so much pace so much information in such a little space of time and
02:04back then it was such a fresh thing and no one really knew what it was you know in april last year
02:08it was in the uk anyway the uk was very kind of it no one knew basically what vertical drama was at
02:14that point um so then we shot it and it was crazy experience crazy process um but it wasn't that
02:21dissimilar to like an indie feature film or like a micro budget feature it was similar sort of pace
02:26you know it was very fast um but the script was written for a budget of much more than we had so we
02:32had to learn how to figure out ways of still telling the story but um not necessarily doing
02:37everything that was written because it was impossible but we did our very best you know
02:42and that's that's the thing with these verticals a lot of time they're written for budgets of millions
02:46and millions but you only have you know a certain amount so it's all about problem solving um
02:51but obviously you have such a vertical frame you only have a little sliver to shoot so that does help
02:57help because you don't need to see everything you can hide a lot of the the bad stuff just focus on
03:02the good stuff you know um but yeah that that was kind of how it happens and then from that one um
03:08immediately afterwards we had another one called mafia obsession and that went that one went quite quite
03:13viral on drama box and got lots of views and obviously kind of put a bit of a stamp on the uk i think at
03:21that point so there was a whole like heap of mafia related films after that and um i mean you say
03:27mafia it's not really mafia because there's no italian connection at all it's just the word mafia
03:32so it's just like it's almost they like that word and i think it brings the right connotations for
03:36them but it's all chinese written scripts chinese writers um coming to the uk and they're the sort of
03:42client and yeah we're trying to execute the story for them as best we can
03:46yeah so i understand that then there is a space and room for flexibility and agility
03:55because of the low budget and uh i understand that you can still try to work things out also with
04:01authors and with directors to make it fit with the budget and the needs and the constraints so it's a
04:09lot about problem solving as you're saying for sure a hundred percent and it's it's interesting because
04:14sometimes um the the clients or the writers don't have a very good grasp on filmmaking they're
04:21they're novelists they're storytellers but they're good they're used to writing long-form books you
04:27know not not screen so um it's a lot of conversation about how we can make their story come to life
04:33within the restraints that we have and that's always part of the process so it's lots of kind of
04:38conversation when you're on set in in prep of course in pre-production about how we can make
04:44someone falling off a building how we can make that look realistic or you know just trying to
04:49exactly problem solve everything um obviously having a very limited like vfx budget but still
04:54try and do as much as we can in the camera to make sure it looks as good as possible
04:59but like i say you have the benefit of it being a small frame so that does definitely help for sure yeah
05:05yeah yeah so there is a high focus on characters and let's say um um people main characters um so how
05:17does it work uh when you choose the actors uh they need to be good they need to be talented because
05:22they're going to be featured um you know in this way on verticals uh is there a particular way of
05:29shooting them yeah i mean the casting is always is always interesting because it's it's a lot of
05:34pressure for them for the actors more i think than not more but different pressure to like a normal
05:40feature film because they're in every scene pretty much you know they're in like it's constantly it's
05:46about the two main lead characters on all of the ones i've done so far it's a romantic story or it's a
05:50forbidden love or something like that so there's lots of lots of screen time for these people so they
05:55have to understand that there's back-to-back scenes they're doing sometimes 15 scenes in a day
06:02and it's it's high pressure but in terms of choosing them it's the casting is always
06:06it's a kind of mixture between look and talent so a lot of the time the look is so important for the
06:11client that they they sometimes choose look over talent obviously which isn't ideal for me because
06:16i want to be able to direct actors that can act but luckily now that's that's slowly changing and
06:20the clients are respecting the fact that you have to have talented actors too because
06:24you know it's very important to have that um so for me it's um it's a way it's always a balance
06:30between the look and the talent for me but it's yeah it's a lot of pressure for them for sure they do
06:35they do a really good job and it's helped me as well to learn from them how to direct in a very
06:39efficient way and i have no time to kind of go deep into the story with them on when i'm on set
06:45because you have 20 minutes to shoot a scene so you're kind of like you have no time to you
06:50you know sit down have a coffee and talk about it it's it's always about the most efficient way
06:55of doing the given notes and giving directions so that you get the performance back that we need
07:01yes you need to have reactive actors and people around uh also i guess it's a lot about negotiations
07:06maybe with the directors and authors i don't know if they are on stage i don't know if they are i mean
07:12on sites uh the the writers sometimes are on set but usually there's a platform producer on set that's
07:20in community in contact with the writer that's usually what's happened in the past okay and also
07:28a lot of pressure for the actors because uh it's high speed uh right so they need to be good uh because
07:35they will not have um many times to try um so how do you do that how do you how do you do to make
07:43them comfortable um are they just used to it do they get used to it i mean is there a you know secret
07:50formula to have everyone on board for me it's just giving space to play in that time so even though
07:58there's no time to really experiment you still need to give them a creative voice and i think that's
08:04always been my directing style anyway no matter what the project is but if you have an open
08:09kind of safe space on set where people feel like they can give their own input and it's not just a
08:14robotic experience for them to like hit to do exactly what they're told exactly that way um which
08:20isn't my way of directing i know some directors love that because they have full control but for me i
08:24quite enjoy seeing how actors interpret the script first so they have one go for themselves and usually
08:30i say to them if you can let's push this one to like a sort of a hyper level of of performance
08:36like a big performance you know and then from that one we can bring them down to something a bit more
08:41grounded um that's kind of how i play it but yeah you definitely have to create a a safe space for
08:47them to kind of feel comfortable it's adrenaline um i think the the best way of describing it is
08:53letting go for everyone not just actors for for me as well for the dp for everyone the sound of the
08:59sound person everyone's gonna let it go because you have two goes you can't get perfection in two
09:04goes usually you can get close and the more you do it the better you get at that speed but if you have
09:10two takes on one setup then you're kind of very limited to what you can achieve so that's why when
09:15you watch these verticals they they usually shot quite basic you know they're not they're not crazy
09:20camera angles or cameras flying through windows or anything like that usually because it's there's just
09:25no time no time to risk it really to risk that that kind of shot
09:32yeah so it's it's a it's a whole story and um about the future i'm wondering uh what do you think
09:39the future is going to be for verticals and and tuan shu uh in england and also internationally
09:45um because also it's very international do you think that uh england is going to be a place that's
09:51um the place to be to shoot uh for uh directors and producers uh do you think that you're gonna
10:00have your own trends um do you think that you're uh inspired a lot by china or the states how do you
10:07see things and also in comparison with uh the cinema do you think that this industry is going to be
10:13become big bigger than cinema it's going to be i don't know something running in parallel
10:18which i think i'll answer it backwards that's okay but i think cinema will always be cinema
10:25i hope i hope i hope um it needs to be its own thing because you can't really compare vertical
10:31drama to cinema because it's such a different way of viewing a different way of sitting and watching
10:36something on such a big screen and seeing the horizontal cine scope um using your peripheral vision
10:41you know i think for the senses and for the mind it's something very very different whereas vertical
10:46drama is something short snappy convenient um good for sort of short attention spans you haven't got
10:53something you don't need to kind of sit for two hours to watch it right you can see you watch like
10:58three or four or five or even 10 in in 20 minutes you know um and it's just a it's just a nice little
11:04little fix a little story you want to you want to watch a story you get it boom you move on you
11:07know it's not something that will stay in your mind and you can think about it and dissect it
11:11necessarily but saying that that's how it is at the moment i'd love for me um to start telling
11:18stories that are more grounded that have a bit more tv-esque kind of storytelling the arcs
11:24um obviously the pacing and the tropes and the things that sell need to be included
11:30but i definitely want to see something that feels more high quality in terms of stories and something a
11:35bit brave as well because currently they're quite safe in terms of what works and what doesn't and
11:41it looks like a lot of the platforms are kind of pushing the same narrative there's a few a few
11:46platforms that are doing new things and trying but very rare because that it's it's a risk for
11:52financially it's a risk for them so they don't want to go let's try something crazy and then lose all
11:56our money right so they want to keep they want to keep something that feels fairly safe but for me um
12:02i'd love obviously as a director to start telling stories that are brave exciting fresh new um and
12:08the cool thing about verticals is that not like it's very easy to be the first at something whereas
12:15it's very hard to do that in tv or film because everything's been done so many times already whereas
12:20in verticals you have you could be the first to do a really horrible like slasher movie or a
12:26horror movie or something like that where it's like dark and gritty and it's brave because it's
12:31actually dark it's not super high exposure like all of them they're really bright you know
12:35whereas if you have the opportunity to tell something like a gritty superhero movie that's
12:39like that the anti-hero for example like boys you know that kind of thing on netflix or i'm sorry
12:44on prime that kind of thing where you have it's a brave story that tell that tackles important subjects
12:50um but through entertainment and also giving time to the story to tell the uh the writer to tell
12:57it properly and not to kind of diminish important subjects because i feel like that does happen
13:02sometimes in verticals like abuse sexual abuse that kind of stuff is told in a way that isn't ethical
13:09i don't think and that needs to change and it is changing luckily but there was a phase within the
13:14sort of storytelling where like domestic violence for men hitting hitting women was just totally normal
13:20and you'd see that and then you'd get rewarded at the end so that the man would like beat up his wife
13:25or beat up his girlfriend and at the end they get married and they live happily ever after which
13:28is like disgusting right but within the vertical drama kind of kind of format for some reason that
13:35sold quite quite well but luckily now that's not that's not that's changing um and it was always my
13:42job on set to try to make it you know as good as i possibly could within the restraints that i had
13:48but now all the scripts are coming and there's a lot a lot more consent a lot more kind of equality
13:54um which is which is nice a lot less drugging because they love they love to have some drugging
13:58in there for some reason um so that that's good i think it's based a lot on emotional topics and
14:05things that sold and now it's becoming a bit more about uh let's say higher quality and uh different
14:13types of scenarios yeah correct and i think all the all the platforms are in competition so they
14:20they need to do something a little bit different each time or try and push the budget a little bit
14:25or try to have a quite a extravagant action sequence um like in pride and prejudice for example we had
14:31horses we had carriages and that kind of stuff which was new for verticals um and then there's been
14:37one where i've done a big car stunt the cars rolled and we had fire engines ambulances and so it's
14:42it does get bigger um i think that's that's what's interesting because it's it's still for me very
14:47early in terms of the sort of format it's only in the western world it's what three years three and
14:52a half years old or something um in the uk probably like a year and a half really so it's um it's quite
15:00easy to sort of try new things and be the first at something and and also i think it's just scratching
15:04the surface you know it's this beginning and i think that it's exciting at the moment for sure
15:08and then i hope that you're going to be also one of the main actors or let's say my leaders to try
15:16to bring things forward and also have uh more creative um let's say proposals so can what can
15:24we wish you for the future i mean for you and uh for england and for verticals what would be your
15:30your targets uh what is your dream next step for me um my my dream next step i think would be i mean
15:39that's actually in process already is to develop our own streaming platform our own platform um but
15:45uk based so it's i'm working with a group of five very talented people all from very different
15:51backgrounds and we're slowly putting things together to try to bring in investment and try to build an app
15:56uh that's uk but it won't only be for us we'll kind of share it amongst other production companies
16:01and we'll have production partners in the uk uk writers uh from tv and from from movies and stuff
16:08and i've i get approached quite a lot now by amazing writers that have done big things in tv and they
16:15want to try verticals because it's a challenge for them and they've never it's it's like the ultimate
16:20challenge for a scriptwriter really because you have to tell a story in such a short space of time
16:24and you have to have your beginning middle and ends every 90 seconds and you have to have a hook
16:29at the end of each 90 seconds so it's as a writer it's a bit of a you know explosion to the mind you
16:35know um but yeah for me definitely this app would be amazing um i think it will happen pretty soon
16:41which is exciting and we will be telling uk-centric stories to begin with but for global audiences
16:47um look what shooting the whole uk as well not just not just london will be shooting in scotland in wales
16:52um in you know everywhere so we'll be telling stories that haven't been told before vertically
16:59is the is the plan and to kind of elevate the content as much as we can but also not alienate
17:05the audience that exists already because that's obviously and for me obviously as a a selfish
17:12creative i want to make it as interesting and abstract as possible and and powerful but also
17:17like i was saying we don't want to alienate the existing audience so i've learned over the last year
17:22and a half i think of how to keep the entertainment aspect of it and how to keep the the fans happy
17:29but also maybe elevate the storytelling a little bit and try and push the boundaries and push the kind
17:34of and just take take risks really i think with this with the storytelling so for me it's um important
17:40to tell stories that are important in life that raise awareness about very important subjects but
17:45through the lens of entertainment and through the lens of comedy and horror and genres that are kind
17:51of getting there for verticals but i think haven't quite kind of hit it properly yet um the last one
17:57i did just now in canada i got back yesterday was was a comedy and it was about it was a crazy story so
18:03there are things happening where people are taking more risks um which is which is exciting but i think
18:09from the uk's perspective we have a slightly different way of consuming entertainment and i think we we
18:15have like a maybe higher standards potentially before we start getting hooked on stuff but saying that
18:22we have eastenders as well and coronation streams so we have our soap operas obviously lots of people
18:27watch but um yeah i think i'd love to just find something and create something that that really hits
18:32hard in the uk that really raises awareness but also entertains and also just tells really cool
18:37stories really really exciting fun stories uh within this vertical madness you know the landscape
18:44yeah so the idea i understand is also to adapt to maybe the uk audience that would be a bit
18:49different uh with other habits of consumption maybe more european style uh if i understand well
18:56um but also trying to stick with the format because this is something that works so you do not want to
19:01let's say start from scratch and you need to find the right balance which is the difficulty
19:06uh between arts and uh let's say the creative side but also keeping things that work so i guess that's
19:14what you need now to adjust uh in the markets and that would be i guess the next step because uh first you need
19:21to find an audience and then when you found it you need to also increase the quality because you want to
19:27keep it the audience if you are doing as you were saying uh the same thing again and again i guess
19:32that people are going to get bored uh so that's now i guess what you want to do with your platform
19:38yeah exactly that yeah i mean we'll definitely um the main thing for us is to keep the audience happy
19:44of course but we also need to be happy creating the content so it's a kind of uh we both everyone
19:49needs to be happy basically that's that's the key we're all happy i'm pretty sure it'll be a success
19:53you know and that's that's that's that's the key that's for the creative to drive and to also push a
19:59bit for new things exactly that 100 yes well said that's exactly it and i think we're pretty close to
20:07kind of getting our first phase done and complete and like i say the team we've got is really really
20:12great um and they're all really passionate about the the sort of new age of the new verticals and it
20:17feels a bit disruptive which is quite fun you know because you're not you're not sort of staying in
20:23one lane you're not keeping it safe you're playing you're trying to do something a little bit different
20:28maybe go against the grain a bit um and like i say because it's such a new format it's really easy to
20:33be the first at something and that's that's also super exciting because it's it stops you getting jaded
20:38it stops you getting like tired of everything because if you're working in something that's been going
20:43for so long and there's so much being produced all the time it's very difficult to get excited by
20:49something when it's fresh and new whereas if the verticals of a new story comes in that's like
20:53it's really great and really beautiful but it's new for verticals it keeps you engaged and keeps you
20:59fresh and and keeps the creativity flowing which is which is super which is great
21:05and then what is going to make you very specific and very original compared to your uh let's say potential
21:11competitors because they are a lot on the market many platforms so i understand this let's say
21:18european style and also this let's say um will to really be higher standard but do you have other
21:26specifics that you would like to highlight i think those are the two main ones the fact that we'll be
21:32doing something a little bit different in terms of story um visually we want to try to push boundaries
21:37to and not just keep things bright and consistent which they currently are a lot of the time um
21:43try to make it a bit more kind of movie-esque try to make sure that the visual experience is a bit
21:48higher for people they're getting a bit more production value um but at the same time we're
21:53still going to be in the same restrictions as all the others we're not going to be shooting over
21:57months and months and months because budget wise we need to keep the same business plan
22:01of of like shooting within 10 days um 15 maybe 15 days max if we can really really push like a
22:07flagship project um so it's still doing the same restrictions but i think it's all down to the
22:12script the fact that our scripts are going to be written by uk-based writers european-based writers um
22:19that's to me the most the big difference for us that we'll be telling stories that are local to where
22:24where we're where we're shooting them you know that people can relate to and there aren't just
22:28only hyper realistic crazy worlds that are being created by writers from different continents
22:34we're going to be shooting them by right writers that are based within the country
22:38um and from europe and from uk and just have them like make sense for the location they're writing
22:43in if that makes sense so the audience will be able to relate yeah more local yes and what kind
22:49of stories can we expect like do you have ideas would it be more romance like pride and prejudice
22:54or do you want more adventures more horror movies you you talked about that uh some minutes ago so
23:00what can we expect from you is it going to be diverse do you already have i don't know a big story you
23:04want to shoot or um what are your ideas right now yeah i think already some there's quite a few ideas
23:11we're kind of we have like a bit of a team talking about things at the moment um we're going to do
23:16or work with two writers i've worked with a lot before and we're going to have this big writers
23:21lab situation where we're going to sit and just have big conversations about what's going to kind
23:25of make people the most excited to write you know um and i think for me it's uh crime drama it's
23:32exciting i think but within that i think a romantic story within the crime drama murder mystery is
23:37great um anything like that but obviously yeah horror is is is something that hasn't really been
23:42explored yet in this space and proper comedy um like high level kind of english comedy or british
23:50comedy um i think is good humor yeah like sarcasm irony dark humor dark comedy that kind of stuff
23:57which i think will be a lot of fun in vertical and working with uh writers that write really great
24:03comedy already and as well as writers that write great horror as well so we have i think they're the
24:09two kind of i guess genres we're looking at we've got this crime drama murder mystery stuff
24:14we've got the comedy and we've got the horror those three and to be fair there's one sci-fi as well
24:19because one of our partners in the business is an amazing sci-fi writer and has done incredible
24:25stuff already so i think we'd definitely utilize his skills as well great well then we wish you the best
24:33of luck and uh i hope that platforms also um can see the light and can um happen very soon do you have
24:40a timeline when i mean we will stay tuned but uh when when can we expect it i mean if the first phase
24:48goes as planned um we should be doing like a beta launch in february next year um but then the actual
24:54main public launch is tbc but hopefully a few months after that for sure okay so that is the plan
25:03yeah but in the meantime i'll still be freelance director of course i think i'll still be freelancing
25:07as well while the while the app while the app is happening um because that's also super exciting for
25:11me and i don't want to lose that completely either so it's it's uh important for me to continue
25:16directing as i am as well and working with others to get inspired yes 100 yeah and i've got good
25:22relationships with good platforms and good production companies that are still very
25:26important to me and they'll always be part of what i'm doing as well for sure that's long-term work
25:32with all the partners yeah exactly that's great then we stay tuned and we will share also uh
25:38everything you do uh on our website uh doandrew.fr um so we can also follow up on you
25:45appreciate that amazing thank you so much thank you dan
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