- 5 months ago
Following an India-Pakistan cricket match, the Indian team's refusal to shake hands with their opponents has ignited a debate.
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00:01Okay, let's raise some big questions that have been sparked by that controversy between India and Pakistan once again when it comes to cricket.
00:08Has cricket become war minus the shooting? Are cricketers becoming political pawns in a larger political battle?
00:15Spirit of cricket or message of terror? What matters more? Handshake, refusal, a bid to blunt criticism over the fact that we are playing Pakistan in the first place?
00:27These are some of the questions that I'm going to raise. I'm joined at the moment by special guest Saad Bin Jang is a former first-class cricketer.
00:37I'm joined by Shishi Ratandi, former Mumbai cricket captain. Ayaz Mehman, one of the country's leading cricket writers over the years.
00:45Javed Qureshi is a former Pakistan under-19 captain. I appreciate all of you joining us.
00:51I'm coming to each of you in a moment, but I want to first turn to Sunil Gavaskar, who we spoke to earlier.
00:56And I began by asking Mr. Gavaskar, your first thoughts on the Indian team refusing to shake hands with the Pakistan team.
01:06Was that the right thing to do?
01:08Well, I didn't—I actually didn't see it, but, you know, it's entirely up to an individual, individual what they want to do.
01:18Because, you know, I think you have situations on the field where people are abusing you, saying things to you, and then at the end of the day,
01:25if you expect that somebody who's been calling your name, somebody who's been saying things to you,
01:31if you expect that, you know, you're going to go and, you know, impress or shake hands with that person,
01:36that's asking for too much.
01:39So, I don't know what had happened on the field, whether there was any exchange of words or anything of the sort.
01:46But if a person—I'm not even talking about a team.
01:50If an individual decides not to shake hands, he or she is perfectly within his and her rights to do so.
01:59But what will you tell, Mr. Gavaskar, those who will say, please keep sports and politics separate,
02:06that you can't bring your political beliefs and messages onto a cricket field?
02:14Sports and politics have never been a sight.
02:16I mean, it's been—I mean, have a look at, you know, things over the years.
02:23Sports and politics has always been around.
02:25And so, I wouldn't even say anything to somebody who says that.
02:32Wouldn't even want to get into any discussion with somebody like that.
02:37But the concern now is that Pakistan has officially written to the Asian Cricket Council
02:43saying they will boycott the tournament if Pycroft remains match referee.
02:48Do you see the next India-Pakistan game going ahead as planned?
02:52Or do you think the match and indeed the tournament is under some kind of threat?
02:55Well, we'll have to just wait and see.
02:59There's still a few days left, I think, five, six days to go.
03:04And whether this threat of them not playing because they don't want Andy Pycroft as the match referee,
03:13we'll just have to wait and see what happens, what the ICC does, whether the ICC takes—
03:17because the ICC appoints the match referee.
03:22The ICC tells the ICC who the umpires are and who the match referee is going to be.
03:28So, I think it's going to be not just an ICC decision.
03:32I think it will probably be an ICC call as well.
03:34Okay, that was Sunil Gavaskar saying it's up to individuals to decide whether they want to go ahead with a handshake or not.
03:43But I want to take that to all my guests who are joining me live.
03:45Starting with you, Saad Bin Jang, what's your view?
03:48Do you believe that it's the right thing, that every player has the right—
03:52if Surya Kumar Yadav, India captain, doesn't want to shake hands with the Pakistani captain,
03:57wants to send a message on Pahal Gaam, is it the right thing to do or is it against the convention of cricket?
04:08Rajdeep, let me answer that in a different manner.
04:12See, there are three fundamental issues in front of us.
04:14One is the handshake.
04:15Second is what the Indian captain has gone and said after the game.
04:20And third is this Lakshman Rekha between politics and sport.
04:25Now, this Lakshman Rekha which has existed since time memorial that I remember,
04:29has been there and it has actually ensured that countries which are in conflict,
04:35countries which are maybe at the verge of war, etc., etc., get to play each other.
04:41That's what the line has done so far.
04:43But what's happened after Pahal Gaam, what's happened after the massacre of those 27 innocents
04:48and the way they were massacred.
04:50You know, it wasn't that they were killed in a war or there was a bomb blast which is actually as bad.
04:54But the way it was done, the way it was planned, the way it was structured was very cold-blooded and terrible.
05:00So that Lakshman Rekha now stands completely squashed.
05:04It's abolished. It doesn't exist anymore.
05:06Now let's take the stance from there. Now comes the handshake.
05:11We didn't handshake before the beginning of the match.
05:14It's not that we waited to win before we decided not to shake hands.
05:18No, we took a stance before the match started and we were very clear.
05:21We said, listen chaps, you people have fallen too badly.
05:24None of you have ever spoken out against terrorism and we refuse to shake hands with you who sit there quietly and support this issue.
05:31And I am glad that Javed is with us and he is going to respond to this.
05:35Because unless there is going to be some response, there is absolutely no reason to shake hands.
05:40For what? The meaning of shake hands is play within the spirit of the game and peace and friendship.
05:45There is none of that anymore. It's gone.
05:47The second thing that the captain has said, which is the captain said after the game was very simple.
05:54He said, listen, what am I saying? I am dedicating this win to all those people that you murdered.
06:00And terrorism is terrible. I stand against terrorism. He didn't say it in those words, but he meant that.
06:05And it's absolutely clear. I mean, for heaven's sake, there is a captain of India which has finally stood up and spoken about the truth.
06:13When there was match fixing, no one said anything. When there is conflict, no one says anything.
06:16When there is huge corruption, no one says anything. Finally, a captain stands up and says something which is absolutely fine.
06:23And it's real. And people are finding fault with it. What heaven's for?
06:29He is absolutely right in saying, I dedicate this win to these people. And I don't think you should actually kill him.
06:34One more, one more last line. And this line between sport and the line between politicians, which, I mean, who are we to say anything against Sunil, Mr. Gawaskar.
06:45But that line has now, which existed for so many generations, has now been abolished.
06:50So, there is absolutely zero respect or zero line between us and what he did was absolutely right.
06:56Okay, so you see, you believe what he did was absolutely right. Javid Qureshi, former Pakistan under-19 captain, why don't you respond to that?
07:07Saad bin Jang makes the point that Pehal Gaam means it's not business as usual.
07:12Pakistan's as cricket establishment, cricketers did not even show the empathy that they should have.
07:18They should have spoken out. The army state is what it is. But the players could have spoken out.
07:23Why should then India show the kind of respect to the Pakistan players if they don't empathize with the terror attack?
07:30Is broadly the point that Saad is making and that the lines have totally got blurred between sports and politics.
07:37Yeah, thank you very much and good evening, everyone. Yeah, look. Yeah, can you hear me? Hello?
07:48Yes, I can. Yeah, you know… Yes, I can.
07:53Yeah, if the Indian players feel strongly, you know, then they should have simply not played.
07:58I think once you come onto a cricket ground or a cricket match, you play by certain rules and certain decorum.
08:05If you feel strongly about something, boycott the game and, you know, we will have respect for you.
08:12But to simply expect Pakistan cricketers to show empathy, Pakistan cricketers are supposed to focus on that game,
08:20not to become pawns in a political game to show empathy or not show empathy.
08:25If the Pakistan team had won this game and the Pakistan players had made some statement dedicating this game to the Pakistan Air Force,
08:34I would have been equally upset and I would have condemned that act.
08:39You play cricket, you come onto the ground, you play by certain rules.
08:43During the time of apartheid, and apartheid was pretty horrific, it was a pretty horrific thing.
08:50You know, Gary Sobers and Graham Pollock, etc. played together.
08:56Mike Proctor and Zaheer Abbas played county cricket together.
09:00Garth Leroux and Imran Khan played cricket together.
09:03They behaved as gentlemen. There were serious issues about apartheid.
09:07But cricketers have… You know, you cannot allow cricketers to get embroiled in this because there is no end to this.
09:14It's much better off if you feel strongly, don't play.
09:17I mean, why did India end up playing if they felt strongly about this? Don't play.
09:22That's my two cents.
09:26You're saying that cricketers cannot bear the can for what our politicians do or don't do.
09:37Exactly.
09:38You're saying, don't target the cricketers. Is that what… You believe sports has to be kept separate from politics.
09:43Is that a bit of a romantic notion?
09:45No, it's not a romantic motion. If you feel strongly, don't play. Don't boycott the game.
09:51But once you play… Once you get into the ground, you play by the rules.
09:56I don't… I mean, I'm all for using sport as a principle.
10:00Okay. Shishi Ratandi…
10:05Yes.
10:06Okay, Shishi Ratandi respond. You've heard two very different views.
10:09Saad bin Jang saying, Surya Kumar Yadam did just the right thing.
10:13Javed Qureshi saying, once you come on the field, then you've got to be cricketers first.
10:18You can't be soldiers in uniform once you're on a cricket field.
10:22If you don't want to play Pakistan, don't play. But when you play, then play by certain conventions. Your response?
10:28Yes. Play by certain conventions, Rajdeep. Once you get on to the 75 yards. And if you don't feel that it's right to play, don't play.
10:39And I think if Surya has voiced an opinion out of his own choice, then I think the bigger thing would be to not play against Pakistan.
10:50and say, I'm unavailable to play in this tournament. And I think everybody believes that he shouldn't have been playing this game
10:58because of the sentiment and because of the empathy he had over what happened in Behlgam.
11:05He needed to do the same. The fact is, the bigger question is, did this come out of Surya's heart?
11:13Or was it a scripted statement that he was compelled to say? Because for me, it's all about, you know, players are really simple people.
11:25You know, cricketers are simple. They know only how to play cricket. They don't look beyond that.
11:29How to excel in their craft and make sure that they, you know, raise the bar for themselves as sportsmen.
11:36So, my bigger worry is, are they being… Is this a scripted piece that they have had to say because of the situation?
11:45But the bigger point is, if you feel so strongly about this sentiment, don't play.
11:51I mean, it's… We are the powerhouse of world cricket. So, if you really feel so strongly…
11:58You're saying that… It's easier said than done than don't play because there are certain global tournament rules.
12:07But what you're saying, don't allow the players to become pawns in a larger political game.
12:13But I ask Mehmen, as someone who's seen the game for decades, do you believe that it's possible?
12:18Are we all romantic somewhere to believe that players can be immune to the political pressures around them?
12:23And therefore, if Surya Kumar Yadav had shaken hands, he would have received a volley of abuse maybe from those who feel that Surya Kumar Yadav is now reaching out to Pakistan.
12:34So, a few months after Pahlkam. So, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
12:38It isn't easy to keep politics and sports separate in today's world.
12:43Oh, absolutely, Rajdeep. I think you hit the nail on the head.
12:46Because, you know, there are niceties of sport and you want that to be kind of adhered to and accepted.
12:53We've seen that happen. But also, it's happened in the breach of it.
12:56I mean, you've seen it happen in the Olympics. You've seen it happen on tennis courts.
13:00I mean, you look at what John McEnroe would do to his opponents.
13:03It might not be as polarized as it is in the current situation that we're talking about.
13:07But I think what I see from the, you know, from like a distance view, I think India played it very smart.
13:14First, they participated in the tournament. There was a huge amount of debate whether India should go to the Asia Cup at all and participate in this cup.
13:21And then there was this, you know, yes, we must participate because otherwise you are putting yourself at risk for participating in the Olympics.
13:28So, you made that gesture saying, we'll be there. We'll play Pakistan. But as, you know, you don't necessarily have to thump each other on the back.
13:37If that happens, it's great. It's happened in the past. It makes for a great sight that players are getting along with each other, win or lose.
13:43And India wins the match. And then I think they chose to deflect all the attention following their participation in the win on another matter, which has, you know, remembered.
13:55But Ayaz, what has changed between 1999 when, if you will recall, Pakistan defeated India in a match in Chennai in a thrilling test match and the entire crowd gave a standing ovation to the Pakistanis.
14:11It was, it isn't as if there weren't terror attacks then. Terror attacks have taken place in the 1990s as well. So, what has changed between 1999 and 2025?
14:20That now we don't want to have anything. If we want to stop the Indus Water Treaty, but we are going to play cricket with Pakistan?
14:28I mean, look, it's a very different world we live in, isn't it, Rajdeep? In 1999, by 2004-05, when India went to Pakistan, had that fantastic series, which India won the first time ever in Pakistan.
14:39The crowds came out on the streets to greet the Indian team. You know, Indian fans and Indian media were, you know, given free khana and peena everywhere else.
14:48So, it's a very different scenario now. Even heading into this tournament, you know what the message was. Not just from the fans, even from, for instance, you know, in the political sphere,
15:00the opponents of the government at this point in time said, we should not play against Pakistan. So, that was the opposition to the team. But we still went and played.
15:08I think driven by an exigency because you want to bid for the Olympics, you better make sure that you participate. You know, so that was an important thing to do.
15:17But let me take that to you, Saad bin Jang. Saad bin Jang, what has changed? Have Indian fan reactions and political reactions changed or have the players changed?
15:30As I said, 1999, Ayaz Mehman mentioned 2004. There seemed to be a bonhomie between players. Even in the 1980s, there was mutual respect between an Imran Ghan and a Sunil Gavaska.
15:42All of that seems to have changed. What has changed? Has the public mood changed, particularly in India?
15:47I think, Rajdi, what's happened over the past two decades or so is that because of the polarized politics of India, a lot of the youngsters have become Indian first.
16:01And then they are thinking through India first. And I am sorry but I completely disagree and I am very disheartened with the point that Shishir, my good friend, made.
16:11Is that the captain of India was coerced into saying things which he didn't want to say. So, I think the whole ethos of today's youth is different.
16:22It is India first. It is that, you know, forget the Muslim, Hindu issues. All those issues are gone.
16:28But what they feel for is their soldiers. What they feel for is the innocence. And I think everyone today feels what happened
16:35in Pahlgaum was the, was worse or literally as bad as what happened with Nazi Germany and the Jews. So, this was the utmost.
16:44So, then why play? No, no, but Saad Bin Jang, then Saad Bin Jang, if you feel so strongly about India first, if blood and water, if blood and water cannot coexist,
16:54why should blood and cricket coexist? Then don't boycott Pakistan. You play Pakistan, but you don't want to observe the conventions of the sport anymore.
17:03No, Rajdeep, listen. This is a bilateral series. We are not playing one against the other. This is a bilateral series which is played on an international platform.
17:14And why should we turn around to the world and say we are frightened of playing them or we don't agree with playing them? We are going to come out looking bad.
17:20This is a bilateral series which needs to be played with, needs to be played with a voice that we have to opine. We have to turn around and say we disagree with this.
17:28We disagree with what this team stands for. We disagree with what the players stand for. But we will play against them. And whoever wins or loses is irrelevant. And that's my point.
17:39Okay. Okay. Okay. So you're saying, you're saying it's a platform for Indians who are angered with Pakistan to air a voice. Quick responses from Javed and Shishit.
17:50Shishit Chaved, you first. Does Pakistan appreciate the kind of anger Pahlgaam has set in this country? This is a reflection of that anger and rage.
18:01You know, people in Pakistan's response was somewhat muted. I disagree with the Pakistan cricket board going after Andy Pycroft. I don't think Andy Pycroft has done anything wrong.
18:17I think the lady on the call made the point that, you know, he has not broken rules or he has not done anything. So I don't think that that is appropriate. I think this issue is now getting blown out of proportion.
18:31I think it should just now be closed and we just get on with life and get on with playing cricket. As far as the passion is concerned and wearing your patriotism on your sleeve, there's nothing wrong with that.
18:45But, you know, I just think that there are rules. There is a game that you're supposed to play. As I said, I go back to the same point. If the Americans felt that the Russians had invaded Afghanistan in 1979, they simply boycotted the Olympics.
19:02You don't participate in the Olympics and you go out of your way to snub Russian athletes. I just don't see how that works. And there's no end to this.
19:13Are we now… Are we now going to see the Pakistan players do the same thing?
19:16Okay, let me give you… So… So… Okay. You want a final word, Shishirat Adli? Very quickly. Saad bin Jang says he doesn't agree with you. You're the cricket romantic here. Saad bin Jang is saying he represents the young Indian.
19:30My final take on this… Angry with Pakistan. If I had to rewrite… If I had to rewrite the script, I would have said if I was India captain, there's very little chance of that. But I would say that we played this game.
19:42For all that has happened for people who died at Pelgam and the families. Not about a win. This is not about a win. This is about playing the game of cricket. And that is…
19:54That is why you played the Asia Cup. It's about playing the match. It's not about winning or losing. What if you had lost? What if you had that one bad day in the office? Would you have said that? No, you would have not said anything.
20:06So, it's important to get things into context. If you feel so strongly about something, say that you played this game of cricket because you want to dedicate it to what happened in Pelgam…
20:18What happened in Pelgam and your thoughts are with the families and the soldiers. That's all.
20:27And let's have just one last point and let's have… Let's leave it there. Gentlemen, appreciate you joining us on our top talking. Yes. Yes, very quickly.
20:36I'm saying let's have consistent rules. You know, then when Uthman Fajah talks about the Palestinians, then you know, let him talk about the Palestinians. But we can't block him…
20:46We can't cut him off then because we don't like what he has to say. And you know, therefore, you're probably better off by simply not allowing…
20:54Okay. Good point. Fair point. Fair point. Fair point. Let's leave it there. I appreciate you joining us. I have a my take. I feel strongly about these issues. So, let me give you my take.
21:06I have always been a firm advocate of Indo Park cricket in the hope that sports can build bridges where politics cannot. No longer. The hope of sports as a bridge builder between two hostile neighbours has been dimmed in recent times.
21:22The terror attack in Pehal Gaam and the complete lack of empathy shown by the Pakistani army state and dare I say even more troubling, the incendiary remarks made by some former Pakistani players make it apparent that it could no longer be business as usual with Islamabad.
21:40The Modi government made it clear that blood and water cannot flow together by putting the Indus Water Treaty on hold. How then can cricket and terror coexist?
21:49Last night's game only further shows how sport is only now an instrument for competitive jingoism.
21:56When a game becomes a platform for war minus the shooting, when performative nationalism takes over and when players cannot even show the minimum courtesy of shaking hands with each other, there is something horribly wrong.
22:10Next time, either don't play cricket with Pakistan or if you believe it's a compulsion, then gracefully accept conventions of sport,
22:18including a handshake. Let's not reduce cricketers to pawns in a larger battle only to cater to domestic constituencies looking to settle scores.
22:27Sports is expected, my friends, to bring out the best in us, not the worst.
22:32Else we are hurtling down a very dark and slippery slope where players will be expected to play the role of soldiers in uniform.
22:40And if the players, BCCI and GOI, Government of India, want to truly put the victims of PALGAM first, here is my suggestion.
22:49All your earnings from India-Pakistan cricket games should go to support the families of the victims of Pakistan-based terror.
22:58The Countdown-based terror.
22:59Jingo, the Countdown-based terror.
23:00Jingo, the Countdown-based terror.
23:01We are on dall afpare.
23:02If you think of them, you will have to be the potential.
23:03The Countdown-based terror.
23:04We have to be the potential.
23:05Hmm...
23:06The Countdown-based terror.
23:07We have to be the potential.
23:08A leg which is the best to give them a chance of having a constant episode of the war.
23:09Really nice.
23:10You will be the potential.
23:11If you see their own strength or a strong state of stress and a spinning machine,
23:12the power to break them out the game, as to be a shame,
23:13you will not be able to carry out that quickly.
23:17Plus, we are going to be able to defend it.
23:18At the time so far, we are going to play the best and a direction.
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