- 7 months ago
This episode of India First examines Pakistan's reported reversal regarding its threat to boycott the T20 World Cup match against India.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First Time, Gaurav Savan, big story coming in, Pakistan appears to be chickening out, Pakistan is all set to play against India on the 15th of February, taking a U-turn, Pakistan's big U-turn on the T20 World Cup, is that just about to be announced in a short while from now.
00:25Sources say that Pakistan Cricket Board had some key demands when it came to its meeting with the ICC, no penalty for Bangladesh, major ICC revenue share, so Bangladesh should get its entire share compensatory, ICC went for Bangladesh, we're told a number of demands that were kept, Pakistan was told, you play first, that's more important when it comes to bilaterals or shaking hands and other issues, that is not an ICC issue.
00:55What we're also being told, Pakistan, ICC, Bangladesh, remember this was a trilateral engagement that took place in Lahore, so there appears to be a face saver, a kind of an off-ramp that's been given to Pakistan and Pakistan is all set to play.
01:12So the ICC pushed back firmly, making very clear, whether it's bilateral series or a trilateral engagement, that's not to be discussed when the World Cup T20 is the issue.
01:23ICC reminded Pakistan of the sporting and commercial consequences of any boycott of the February 15 India-Pakistan match.
01:30VCB chief Mohsin Nakwe, who incidentally is also interior minister of Pakistan, was part of this trilateral with the ICC and Bangladesh officials at Lahore, he's now reaching out to Pakistan's Prime Minister Shabash Sharif, apparently they're in two different cities, that's the information that's coming in.
01:47So an ICC decision is expected shortly. Nakwe, we are told, is reaching out to Pakistan government.
01:56ICC CEO Sanjog Gupta, ICC chair of associates Mubashi Rusmani, Imran Khwaja, we're told detailed conversations have already taken place and a resolution is expected very soon.
02:10We have the best voices on cricket, joining me on the show, Nikhil Nas, Vikrant Gupta, we'll have reporters and analysts joining us also from Pakistan.
02:21But first, first, let me try and get you more on this report. First, let's take a look at the report.
02:29Pakistan's boycott drama is turning out to be a massive embarrassment for the country.
02:45What began as a threat of boycotting match against India has now reached intense backchannel negotiations
02:52and a desperate search for an ICC lifeline, a face saver for Pakistan.
03:00Pakistan Cricket Board Chief Mohsin Nakwe, also Pakistan's Interior Minister, held an emergency tripartite meeting with ICC officials and Bangladesh Cricket Board.
03:12Pakistan's boycott standoff with the ICC deepened after Islamabad wrote to the ICC invoking the force majeure clause
03:24and citing government instructions to skip the first match against India on the 15th of February.
03:32The ICC in turn questioned the basis of that claim.
03:36Warning of crippling sanctions on Pakistan cricket if no valid reason was provided.
03:45The Pakistan Cricket Board sought further dialogue as uncertainty continues over the clash.
03:55Reports indicate even Pakistan's newfound partner Bangladesh asked Mohsin Nakwe to consider playing the India match.
04:06Nakwe has once again run to Pakistan's Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif, seeking approval for a possible U-turn.
04:15For now, the spotlight remains squarely on Pakistan's Prime Minister and Cricket Board.
04:21Will ICC reading a right act to Pakistan trigger a climb down or will politics overshadow the India-Pakistan showdown in World T20 in Sri Lanka on the 15th of February?
04:39Bureau Report, India Today.
04:41So, is Pakistan getting an off-ramp, a face-saver or has the right act been read to Pakistan?
04:51Let's try and make sense of these latest developments with information coming in thick and fast.
04:55Joining me on this India First special is Vikrant Gupta, Managing Editor of Sports Tak and Sports Aaj Tak.
05:01Nikhil Naz is our Consultant Editor of Sports at India Today.
05:03Sushant Sarin is a Senior Fellow at the Observer Research Foundation who watches Pakistan very closely.
05:08Also with me is Javed Badar, a former media coordinator of Imran Khan's Pakistan Tehri Ke Insaf Party.
05:14And a sports analyst joins us from Pakistan in a moment.
05:17I think we'll also be joined by Mona Alam, a journalist from Pakistan for the latest from there.
05:22But Vikrant, Pakistan desperately looking for a face-saver.
05:26Is Pakistan getting an off-ramp here?
05:29Well, they were always going to play this game.
05:33There was no way that Pakistan would have boycotted an ICC event.
05:38I mean, come to imagine what would have happened, the ramifications.
05:42It says that they were delaying the inevitable and they had a meeting.
05:46The meeting was good, cordial.
05:48As in, I won't say somebody won or somebody lost in the meeting.
05:52Because Bangladesh, any which ways, if they get the revenue, they're still not playing in the World Cup.
05:57Pakistan was trying to be the elder brother.
06:00They must have succeeded in winning Bangladesh over in terms of diplomacy and in terms of strategic alliance.
06:07But in terms of cricket, they did not get what they wanted.
06:10ICC again were also desperate for this game to happen.
06:14So, in the end, what has happened is that Pakistan had their drama, any movie that you go to a cinema theatre will run for three hours.
06:23I mean, we know in the first 15 minutes that X is the heroine and Y is the hero and Z is the villain.
06:31But you sit through a movie to watch the hero and the heroine bashing up the villain, the last reel, at the stroke of three hours.
06:39So, this was a movie and the movie has just ended.
06:42Okay.
06:42So, end of the three hours, Pakistan emerges as villain.
06:46Javed Badhar Sahib, what was the idea of Mohsin Nakwee?
06:48What was the idea of being a heroine bashing up?
06:51But Pakistan will become a big zero in this game?
06:53Javed Badhar Sahib, what was the idea of being a heroine bashing up in this game?
07:24Javed Badhar Sahib, what was the idea of being a heroine bashing up in this game?
07:29So, this is how the idea of being a heroine bashing up.
07:32Kriket, when the two countries were created, the temperature was created by the other people.
07:37We have seen that in the future, the pressure of being a heroine bashing up in this game,
07:42and the temperature has been reduced.
07:43foreign
07:50foreign
07:57foreign
08:02foreign
08:07No, let me get Vikran to respond to this.
08:13I think it's okay. He can say whatever.
08:2015-20 people will support you. You change it.
08:23If the ICC wants, it wouldn't be a problem.
08:26The ICC shifted in Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Hindustan.
08:30It wouldn't be a problem.
08:32We've got a problem that we've got.
08:37You say that we've got in Bangladesh.
08:39No.
08:40No, this got a lawyer.
08:45When your brother took care of you, your brother got out of Bangladesh.
08:49You were out of Bangladesh.
08:51You were out of Bangladesh.
08:53That's what I'm saying.
08:56This is not a matter of country.
08:58Why not do you have to do it?
08:59I agree.
09:01You have to say that you have to try and keep the players from the field.
09:07You have to say that you can still have to take a look at the field of the field.
09:13No, no, one second.
09:15I'll just interrupt.
09:17Sir, forgive me, you said that you have to try and keep the field of the field of the field.
09:21I agree.
09:23Sir, there are some previous cricketers.
09:27They say that Hindu people are hurting on the mountain, so they are very happy to be here, so that you can subscribe to them.
09:33I mean, this is what you're talking about, Javed Miadad, sir, one second, one second, sir, one second, Javed Miadad,
09:40you know, you know, you know, India's pride in India, but you know, you know, the statements were,
09:45you know, this is a joke, this is a joke, you know, this is a joke, you know,
09:49you know, you know, one minute, one minute,
09:52you know, you know, you know, Vikran Gupata says that my balance is running from broadcast.
09:56But my balance doesn't work, I mean, my boss is running.
09:59I like to know, you know, Javed Miadad,
10:01you know who criticised the joke of Javed Miadad,
10:02how do a country say that myth and he says his mouth hurts,
10:07how do Hindus say that the bloods are saying,
10:09we say Javed Miadad, we are saying that we are talking about Javed Miadad,
10:12that's what we call the joke,
10:13you know, this is the joke about a joke of the fact,
10:16that is the joke, now listen.
10:19Your Prime Minister has tweeted it. Your Prime Minister has said it in your cabinet.
10:26We should not play.
10:28Now you think that you should play because you have paid money.
10:32You have paid money.
10:34You have paid money.
10:36You have paid money.
10:41You have paid money.
10:45You have paid money.
10:53You have paid money.
10:55When you eat money?
10:58You have paid money.
11:00I have never seen it in my life that I can't take away from my life.
11:04I have never seen it in my life.
11:07I have never seen it in my life.
11:11Because if you understand that in 1980,
11:14the whole western block didn't go to Moscow Olympics.
11:17In 1984, the whole Soviet block didn't go to Los Angeles Games.
11:21It's a very long situation.
11:23I'm not playing with Russia.
11:25You don't play sports and cricket.
11:28You have to eat and eat.
11:32What is happening in the world?
11:34You are talking about JF-17.
11:36Sushank Sarin, is Pakistan getting an off-ramp here?
11:47Very clearly, I think they are being given an off-ramp out here.
11:51And I don't think they should have been given it.
11:53Because what this off-ramp will do is,
11:56it will buy you temporary relief and a permanent headache.
11:59Because these fellows will use this off-ramp.
12:02Because this means that there are no consequences on Pakistan for their misbehavior.
12:07And if they are going to misbehave, they should be punished for it.
12:10In fact, I would have ideally advised both BCGI and ICC to have said nothing.
12:15If the Pakistanis did not come and play, they should have been warned of the consequences.
12:19And if they did not still come without giving them any off-ramp, then they should have been visited those consequences.
12:25By trying to appeal to them, plead with them, let's play this match because of the losses that will happen.
12:33Those losses would have gone to everybody, right?
12:36It would not have affected the Indian board.
12:38It would have affected everybody.
12:40And everybody's wrath would have been on Pakistan.
12:43Especially because, I think Vikrant himself mentioned in an earlier program,
12:47that that force majeure clause was not going to be applicable to Pakistan.
12:51So, one is that,
12:54you know, this gentleman out here is talking about JF-17 and talking all kinds of nonsense.
12:58This is the typical Lahori churan which they said.
13:01This is the Lahori churan which they were sold on this whole ICC fracas.
13:05On this T20 fracas which they entered into.
13:08The bottom line is that they are going to be ending up with nothing.
13:13At least if I go by what Vikrant has been reporting.
13:16By whatever their demands were that you give us a bigger share and you played domestic bilateral series with us.
13:23They are not being given any of that.
13:25So, what are they left with?
13:27Vikrant himself reports that, you know, the ICC had already agreed that they would not penalize Bangladesh.
13:33Ideally, they should have.
13:35Because Bangladesh was changing, shifting the ghostly posts at the last minute.
13:38Under Pakistani pressure.
13:40So, you have two countries that play truant.
13:43You are absolutely right.
13:44Two countries that misbehave but they will get rewarded for their misbehavior.
13:48Nikhil, is that how we should look at it?
13:50Or is it a massive loss of face for Pakistan's Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif
13:54who went on record to say that Pakistan will not play against India on the 15th of February
13:59and that Pakistan stands with Bangladesh or words to that effect.
14:02But now, Pakistan will end up playing.
14:04Or may end up playing.
14:06Yeah, I'm sorry I was a bit distracted because, you know, just now we've got news coming in about India's annual contracts of the players.
14:12I was just looking at the A-grade, A-plus contract players get about seven-odh crore.
14:17Which could be, you know, almost one-fourth the budget.
14:19That's one player's annual contract would be one-fourth the budget of entire Pakistan cricket.
14:23I think that just explains why you've had a U-turn of sorts from Pakistan.
14:28I mean, just looking at where they are, some of those demands which are now in public domain.
14:32To be asking ICC that ensure we want to have bilaterals.
14:36To ask ICC that there should be a handshake protocol.
14:39I mean, it's laughable on multiple levels.
14:42One, how is it that people who are negotiating don't even know that ICC is not the correct forum to be addressing these issues.
14:49And these are people that are looking after their board.
14:51And secondly, from a stance that their government has taken that we don't even want to play India in a game because of Bangladesh.
14:59Why would then you want to engage with India on a bilateral level or have handshakes?
15:03That just beats me.
15:04All it tells me is that I think Pakistan was in a confused state.
15:07We mentioned that force measure thing.
15:09That is something they were relying on.
15:11They consulted their legal experts which also ill-informed them that, listen, don't worry.
15:16No legal ramifications, no financial ramifications are going to come your way.
15:20Because we have this, you know, clause to give us an exit somewhere or the other.
15:25After having realized that, no, that is something that we cannot rely on.
15:29Because what we were banking on doesn't even add up on this situation.
15:33That's why this U-turn has now happened.
15:35I'm sure they'll get something out of the deal.
15:37When you do hear them saying that, listen, we've agreed to play India.
15:41But those could be as the common word that is being used right now.
15:44Lahori Choran, that could be okay.
15:46You know, Bangladesh will get some sort of revenue.
15:48Which I think, anyway, ICC may have considered that.
15:52If Bangladesh should continue to negotiate with them.
15:54And couple more things, that's all they'll get.
15:56And eventually, the game will go ahead.
15:57Let me get Mona Alam's perspective on this.
16:00Mona joins us from Islamabad. Mona, welcome.
16:03Your take on this, an off-ramp for Pakistan?
16:08Or is there merit that it's a massive loss of face for Shabash Sharif and Pakistan?
16:12That first they said they will not play.
16:14And now apparently, the word is that they want, at least Mohsin Nakwe wants Shabash Sharif to give them clearance to play on the 15th.
16:23Thank you for taking up the topic.
16:27Well, yes, of course, Prime Minister wants, Prime Minister is the ultimate authority, right?
16:33Since it was announced by the government of Pakistan that initially they had, I don't know, the smirk on Sushant Saleem's face.
16:40It's inexplicable only.
16:42Because the ultimate authority, I thought, was Asim Munir.
16:45It's so distracting.
16:46Be that as it may.
16:49So, Prime Minister, of course, is the ultimate authority.
16:53It may seem funny in your country, but it is the case in our country at least.
16:58It's a sovereign one, you know.
16:59So, the Prime Minister will ultimately decide whether we want to play or not.
17:03And it was announced by the government of Pakistan.
17:05So, I think it is up to them only to take back that announcement if they've had a change of heart.
17:11Due to this ICC coming over and trying to convince us.
17:13Why would they have a change of heart?
17:14Could you explain, you know, why would they have a change of heart?
17:19And, I mean, if he's ultimate authority in Pakistan, Shabazz Sharif, I'm sure that's news even to him.
17:25That he's the ultimate authority and not Asim Munir.
17:28But be that as it may, why do you think Pakistan had that change of heart, Mona?
17:32Because ICC is trying to convince us, right?
17:36ICC is meeting PCB officials as we speak and they've had a certain ice melting, I'd say, in recent times that at least Pakistan has put up certain conditions as to the certain criteria that we think should be abided by in order for us to be willing to play this bilateral.
17:54I think it's about a decade that we haven't played a bilateral with India.
17:57So, of course, it's going to be huge.
17:59And I do understand ICC's stakes in the entire matter.
18:02But, of course, I think Pakistan has had a dignified stance.
18:06Except ICC, just on an issue of fact and Vikrant can tell us better as can Nikhil.
18:10ICC cannot decide on a bilateral between India and Pakistan.
18:14Am I right Vikrant?
18:15Mona, I think you're misinformed.
18:16I can understand.
18:18I mean, I do listen to your shows.
18:20But I think cricket, you are…
18:21This is half-baked.
18:23Yeah, cricket is of course your forte.
18:25Of course, of course.
18:26I give it to you entirely.
18:27My point is…
18:28There's no bilateral happening.
18:29Please go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong.
18:30Mona, there's no bilateral happening.
18:32Because see, again, I think people need to understand what is the ICC.
18:37And what is a bilateral cricket?
18:39I mean, how can the ICC ask any member board to have a bilateral relation with the other board while I don't want to?
18:48I can only play Pakistan so long as the government doesn't allow.
18:52I can only play them in Asia cup or the ICC tournaments.
18:55Secondly, you know, it's naive of the Pakistan cricket board to even suggest to the ICC delegation, please tell India that they should play with us.
19:05Please tell India they should play a tri-series with us and Bangladesh.
19:10Please tell India that they should play us in the WTC cycle.
19:13I mean, people need to understand the World Test Championship cycle does not belong to the ICC.
19:20The ICC we only get five days in two years time.
19:24When bilateral cricket ends and you look at the point system, the top two teams play in the WTC final.
19:30That's it.
19:31That's it.
19:32But for an ICC event, Mona, the limited point that on facts, ICC cannot decide bilateral or trilaterals.
19:38But the fact also is…
19:41Just to add to that, one is that ICC cannot decide.
19:45This is the only negotiator that we are getting to converse with, right?
19:48This is the only negotiator.
19:49It may be a third party.
19:51For ICC events.
19:53For ICC events.
19:54For ICC events.
19:56My only question to you, Mona is…
19:57Only for ICC events.
19:58My only question is that, you know, I think we have pointed it out.
20:02They have had a meeting with the PCB deputy, right?
20:04For an ICC event.
20:05They are trying to make amends.
20:07For an ICC event is the only point.
20:10Just one question.
20:11That's fair enough.
20:12But you know, I am just trying to imply that this is the only negotiator that is available to us.
20:18So, of course, whatever grievances or concerns that we have, we will put them forth to…
20:22My question is…
20:23Mona, Mona…
20:24I just had one question for you.
20:27Please.
20:28You know, whether you agree or not, whether ICC is the mediator or not.
20:31My point is, why would Pakistan want to have bilateral cricket?
20:34Why this demand for bilateral cricket?
20:36When they decided to boycott even an ICC match versus India for not something that involves Pakistan,
20:41which involves a third party.
20:43Why this change of heart?
20:44You've had, you know, some bluster coming in from Pakistan where they said that
20:48if India doesn't want to shake hands, we don't want to do it either.
20:51Why this change of heart?
20:52Why even the need to play bilaterals with India?
20:56Actually, I think this is a news which only Indian media is breaking to us.
21:02That, you know, we've had this change of heart.
21:04Yes, we have put out certain conditions.
21:06But I don't think the bilateral match is a condition so far that at least I've heard of.
21:11I'm just saying that the bilateral…
21:13What are the conditions the Pakistani media is putting out?
21:15What are the conditions the Pakistani media is putting out?
21:18Regarding the handshake, I think this was a bitter incident that had happened after the Indo-Path war last year.
21:24That there wasn't a handshake and, you know, the winning team, Indian team, they should have shook hands.
21:31They even refused the trophy from Mohsin Nakwee's side.
21:34So, I mean, all of this has happened, right?
21:37There's no denying this.
21:38So, we…
21:39No, but if India doesn't want to shake hands, why is Pakistan saying we'll only play play if India shakes hands?
21:44Why?
21:45We don't want to shake hands.
21:46Because there's…
21:47No, I think there's this…
21:48There's this certain sportsmanship which should be honoured.
21:51And particularly from the winning team side.
21:54I mean…
21:55Just to interrupt Mona.
21:56Mona is absolutely right.
21:58I think Mona must be a great cricket fan.
22:00This is a very basic point.
22:01Mona must have been a great cricket fan.
22:04Pakistan had a great legacy of cricket.
22:07I mean, Mona in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
22:10Two things here.
22:11Pakistan wants sportsman spirit.
22:14Even if they lose, they want the Indians to shake hands with them.
22:18But do you want your interior minister, who also happens to be the Pakistan cricket board chairman, to run away with the trophy that a nation has won?
22:28B.
22:29Do you also subscribe to the views of Mohsin Nakwee when he held an Asia Cup game to ransom, where the Pakistanis refused to travel for the game to the stadium?
22:40And see, where was the sportsman spirit when you said, in an ICC event, we don't want to play India?
22:46And just to add to that, where was that spirit when Mohsin Nakwee puts out a tweet of Cristiano Ronaldo with a gesture of aircraft downing?
22:55I mean, so you want that gesture to be extended from India, that shake hands.
22:59But your interior minister, who is also the head of PCB, does these things.
23:04All of this has happened, of course.
23:06I don't deny that.
23:07But it had happened after India's, you know, sore loser attitude of not shaking hands.
23:13No, you won the game.
23:15We won all the three games.
23:17We won the Asia Cup.
23:18We won everything.
23:19We won everything.
23:20We won all the sore loser.
23:22You know, but since you mentioned just recent attempts and events, Mona, sportsman spirit.
23:28You know, when India and Pakistan actually started playing after the gap in 1960s, Pakistan won a match.
23:35Your captain, he turned around and said, this is the jeet of victory of Muslims over Hindus.
23:41It's recorded history.
23:42Sushant Sareen, they think that's sportsman spirit.
23:45Of course, I will not.
23:46People like Imran Khan playing against India's jihad for Kashmir, for heaven's sake.
23:52I mean, this is actually not you individually, Mona, but it's virtually like the devil quoting scriptures, Sushant.
23:59So you see the problem really with the Pakistanis is that now they are being meted out the same treatment that they were meeting out to others and that they can't handle.
24:11So now they are saying that, listen, why don't you guys, you know, turn the other cheek like you always used to.
24:17That other cheek is not being turned.
24:19Second, I am glad Nikhil brought out that point.
24:23This whole business about the Pakistanis wanting a trilateral series with India, a bilateral series with India.
24:29I don't want to play with them.
24:30I don't want to shake their hands.
24:31I don't see what's the problem.
24:32Why should I be forced to shake their hands, hands which are covered in the blood of my people?
24:37I don't want to do it.
24:38So, you know, cope with it.
24:40Third and most importantly, you know, this whole business about the kind of grandstanding.
24:46My point is a very simple one.
24:48Show some Gairat, show some pride and tell your prime minister since as Muna Alam very bravely has claimed that he is in charge of Pakistan.
24:57Everybody and even he himself knows that he is not in charge, that he is just the chaplasi to the army chief.
25:03But let him show that he is in charge.
25:05Let him take a decision and say we will not play.
25:08We will stand by our pride.
25:10We will stand by our brethren in Bangladesh.
25:13We will stand up for cricket and not play against India.
25:17I challenge you to do it.
25:18I challenge you.
25:19Forget about all these conditions you have put.
25:22I challenge you that you will not be able to do it.
25:24Because that is what it is all about.
25:26And what we have done is or what ICC has done is by reaching out to them and giving them an off ramp, you have just encouraged them.
25:34Which is I think a disastrous thing to do because how they will spin it Gaurav and you can mark my words on it.
25:40The way they will spin it is even if they get nothing, not one of their conditions is fulfilled.
25:45They will spin it and Muna Alam in her television programs will be the top person to spin it, top anchor to spin this.
25:51They will say look at least we rattled the ICC.
25:54At least we brought this matter to the fore.
25:57At least we shook everything up.
26:00And now this is the first step.
26:02Now we will take more steps.
26:03So what ICC has done is opened itself to further blackmail by these fellows.
26:08This should have been nipped in the bud, right here, right now.
26:12Even if there was some minor laws, that would have been made up in the long run, even in the medium run.
26:17It would not have affected anybody's finances, least of all BCCI finances.
26:21So I want to get Javed Badar and Nikhil to respond to this.
26:25But first since so many questions were put to Mona, Mona you want to quickly respond ma'am?
26:29Well I was talking in utmost civil manner but I don't know where he brought out that chapdasi and derogatory terms for my country's prime minister.
26:39That's ridiculous.
26:40I did not voice out extreme fines and featuring of Mr. Modi Gandhi.
26:45Fair enough.
26:46Okay, Mona I am sorry.
26:47Please don't do that.
26:48Actually I have to take you out of the show.
26:50Just stay on the issue and such remarks on either side.
26:54Not wanted.
26:55But for a moment I want to bring in Mr. Badar.
26:57No, Mona.
26:58Mona, we are talking cricket.
26:59But you also know where your prime minister stands and we all know where your prime minister stands.
27:03No, don't use those derogatory words.
27:05I completely agree and I told Sushant that.
27:08Fair enough.
27:10But there is no comparison between your prime minister and ours.
27:13But be that as it may.
27:14I want to bring in Mr. Badar and I want to understand from you.
27:18It's all done from you.
27:19It's all done from Pakistan.
27:20What does Pakistan do not do that.
27:21What does Pakistan do?
27:22If you are a bitсуд a bit concerned about it, don't play.
27:25You should not play.
27:26Here is my prime minister.
27:27We should not play.
27:28We should not play.
27:29You should not play.
27:30Just 1-1-1 week after began, you have been a show.
27:31We have played with Pakistan and Pakistan.
27:33You must play a break.
27:34Use these Jamaicanangs towards this.
27:35Then tell me what you want to play.
27:36Good point, good point, Vikran Gupta ICC
28:00Good point, a state sponsor of radical Islamist era that has been bleeding India and Indians for decades
28:10Why are we so desperate for Pakistan to remain in the ICC?
28:14You are absolutely right, you should not be able to do that international cricket
28:19You should not be able to do that
28:21No sir, no sir, no sir, let me correct you
28:25No sir, no sir, no sir, no sir, no sir
28:28It is a tournament. Our marriage is, you should also be married
28:31All the time is right, that is a bad thing
28:34But nobody wants to do that. They are bad things
28:37But the bad thing is bad things
28:40They are bad things
28:41Who give them the kids and can give them something
28:43They are saying that they are half an hour late
28:46They have to go ahead and understand the bad thing
28:49So I will talk about it
28:51I am sorry, I am sorry.
28:52I am sorry, I am sorry.
28:53I am sorry, I am sorry for you in cricketing terms.
28:58I had a delegation of the ICC's delegation.
29:02There was also a delegation from Bangladesh.
29:04There is also a process of protocol.
29:05There is no place for me.
29:08It is not my place.
29:10This is my place.
29:11You have to take your job.
29:12There are people from Bangladesh.
29:13When I was in Bangladesh, I was not outvoted.
29:18Similarly, to extend that courtesy,
29:20To extend that courtesy, these people, Imran Khwaja, have also gone there and this is courtesy.
29:25And I know for a fact that...
29:27Sir, listen. Pakistan is a stakeholder of the ICC.
29:33ICC is not mine. ICC is not yours.
29:36It constitutes of various cricket boards.
29:39Pakistan is its member.
29:41So, Pakistan didn't give so much courtesy.
29:43But I will tell you this too.
29:45Again sir, I don't use those words.
29:47But the fact is that you are telling this.
29:50That, look, Pakistan has remained.
29:53Yes.
29:54The fact is that what Pakistan has done, the ICC was worried.
29:59Even now, they must be worried.
30:01But the fact is that ICC had a PCB.
30:04When PCB wrote it, there was a little unpartheism.
30:08Pakistan cricket board wrote ICC to attach a tweet.
30:12That we are putting force majeure.
30:14So, ICC is asked to tell you one thing.
30:16Which sub-clause comes in.
30:17Number two.
30:18Now, I will tell you about force majeure.
30:20The contracts are not just the ICC.
30:22What is the most important thing in it?
30:25It is asked to you.
30:26If the government has made it.
30:28What steps have you taken to mitigate that?
30:31That means you are meeting with the government?
30:33Or you have made the government's decision?
30:35The moment ICC wrote back to PCB.
30:39What steps have you taken to mitigate that?
30:41A.
30:42B. We want you to play.
30:43You will tell us what to do and how to do it.
30:45But, see.
30:46Yesterday, the marketing, the commercial.
30:49Sir, I will tell you.
30:51Sir.
30:52That is the reason.
30:53That is why India does not want to play with Pakistan.
30:54There is a reason for it.
30:55That is the reason.
30:56That is why India does not want to play with Pakistan.
30:58There is a reason for it.
30:59This is the reason for it.
31:00Look, this is the reason for us.
31:01We have a very strong agreement.
31:02Sir.
31:03You have a very strong agreement.
31:04Sir.
31:05I will tell you.
31:06Just a minute.
31:07That is the point.
31:08I will tell you.
31:09There is no evidence that Pakistan has.
31:10Sir.
31:11You and Mona both know that you are here.
31:12I sit here.
31:13Sir.
31:14One year ago, we came here.
31:15We came here.
31:16We came here.
31:17We came here.
31:18We came here.
31:19He came here.
31:20He came here.
31:21He came here.
31:22He came here.
31:23He came here.
31:24He came here.
31:25He came here.
31:26He came here.
31:27No.
31:28He came here.
31:29He came here.
31:30Pakistan is going to take a lot of money.
31:32Sushant Sarin, somewhere down the line, this message has to go out.
31:35It is with a begging bowl that Pakistan goes everywhere.
31:39You know?
31:40And that is the point, Sushant Sarin.
31:43Pakistan goes with a begging bowl and yet shows this attitude.
31:46It is amazing.
31:48I am very disappointed though.
31:52I am very disappointed.
31:53You are the one who brought in business about how important Prime Minister is.
31:57I didn't bring that up.
31:59And even you know that you are indulging in a lot of dissimble.
32:00But the fact of the matter is, Gaurav, as far as I can make out, the Pakistanis bold a full
32:01toss to ICC.
32:02And to BCCI.
32:03If I was in charge of BCCI.
32:04If I was in charge of BCCI, I would have told them, I am not going to give them back.
32:05And you are the one who brought in business about how important Prime Minister is.
32:10brought in the business about how important your prime minister is. I didn't bring that up.
32:16And even you know that you are indulging in a lot of disassemble. But the fact of the matter is,
32:22you know, Gaurav, as far as I can make out, the Pakistanis bowled a full toss to ICC and to BCCI.
32:30If I was in charge of BCCI, I would have told them I'm not going to give them a damn thing
32:35and I will not relent on anything. If these guys want to behave bad, let them be visited with the
32:41consequences that will follow. So it is as simple as that. And while they might have their protocols
32:47and they might have reached out to them. And as Vikrant is saying, you know,
32:52he was trying to make the best of the people. Sometimes he should be able to make the best of the people.
32:57So that he understands what is important. Most respectfully, Mr. Sareen, I think even your BCCI
33:04is not listening and not paying heed to your comical analysis. This is comical in nature.
33:10Be that as it may, be that as it may, be that as it may, Mona Alam, the fact remains Pakistan,
33:19your prime minister has gone on record to say that he and the army chief. No, it's not ridiculous.
33:24It's a fact. It is a fact that your prime minister announced with a begging bowl,
33:29your army chief and he are going everywhere. It's a fact.
33:35And only Nikhil Nas on the screen, please. No, I am not going to get Pakistanis on my show for this.
33:41Only Nikhil Nas on air immediately. But Nikhil Nas, this is where BCCI has to make it very clear.
33:49Or the ICCI needs to make this very clear. A state sponsor of radical Islamist terror cannot be a part of the cricketing playing world.
33:57Look at that attitude. Even defeat, like Operation Sindhur they'll spin as victory.
34:01Well, it's a rare occasion where I agree with the Pakistani panellist Mr. Badar actually, where he did bring about ICC.
34:09I think Vikran made a valid point that, see, ICC has certain protocols in place. They have to follow it up.
34:14But I think, you know, this should serve as an example for ICC also to set their house in order.
34:20Should ICC then be extending this courtesy to Pakistan?
34:24Can they allow a country to hold an international board like the ICC to hostage like they have because of their wins and fancies?
34:32I don't think any other international body will allow that.
34:35You know, so I think this is also this should serve an example for ICC to not have those pre-planned India-Pakistan matches that they would.
34:44This should be the moment for ICC to realize that let's not base all our ICC tournaments and sell it to the broadcaster on only that India-Pakistan game.
34:52Let's not have them in the same group. I'm sure the cricketing universe or the cricketing ecosystem can survive with this India-Pakistan game.
34:59Let this be the moment to call out that bogey that is that India-Pakistan game.
35:04And if this can lead to some course correction and for ICC to fix their house in order, let this be that moment.
35:10Is this that moment Vikrant? Because Pakistan is tom-toming that ICC will collapse without India-Pakistan matches.
35:18All money comes from India-Pakistan matches. That is why ICC keeps India and Pakistan in the same group.
35:25Is it time now for the ICC to wake up and perhaps for the BCCI, more importantly, keep India first and Indian interests first?
35:33Well, again, the India-Pakistan game does generate a lot of revenue.
35:39It is mentioned in the contract that you have with the broadcaster.
35:42It is a little less than the semi-final and the final, but the India-Pakistan games are revenue generator.
35:48But how much money?
35:50It's about, in Indian rupees, about 200 crore, 250 crore.
35:54I think that's the value of one India-Pakistan game.
35:57So 200 crore rupees Indian would be some, maybe 750, 800 Pakistani.
36:03800 crore rupees in Pakistan.
36:05So just to give you an objective reality, in the IPL, two IPL games give you 250 crore rupees as the rights.
36:20Exactly.
36:21250 crore rupees, the BCCI earns in two IPL games from the broadcaster.
36:27But you look at the ICC.
36:28And like I said, India is not the ICC, as much as the Pakistanis now claim, India is not the ICC.
36:37ICC is a body made of several cricket boards and India is the most important.
36:43India is the most important, not just for the revenue that India generate.
36:46It is also now, because of the ICC trophies that India win.
36:51It's not just 150 crore Indians watching the game.
36:55The point is, for far too long, Sushant, we've permitted Pakistan, a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror, to punch far above its weight.
37:03You can make the same amount of money and more in an India-Australia match, or maybe two India-Australia matches.
37:09Do that, have new rivalries come up, get rid of that state sponsor of terror.
37:13Yeah, but this is precisely the point I was making earlier, that, you know, the Pakistanis go, you know, they bite a lot more than they chew, and then you allow them to, you know, get away with it.
37:28And this is where we should have drawn the line.
37:30And this is exactly what I'm saying, that for a short-term benefit, or to prevent a short-term loss of, as Vikram is saying, about 200, even if it's 300, 400 crores, even if it's that much, that would have not been, that would have been spread across all the boards, right?
37:46If the revenue goes down, then the shares of other boards go down.
37:49Yes, that's the problem.
37:50If the smaller boards would suffer more, I don't think it makes any difference to BCCI, really.
37:55Or maybe at least the big three or four boards, it would be Bangladesh, which goes bankrupt, it would be some of the other smaller boards, which have problems, and the BCCI could have been nice to them, and maybe given them some tournament, something or the other, you could have…
38:09Absolutely, make up, you know, Vikram, isn't that possible?
38:12To save a short-term loss, I suspect we might be entering into a long-term problem with this kind of behavior from the Pakistanis.
38:26Absolutely.
38:28How Pakistan has been told that next time you do something like this, there will be terrible consequences.
38:34Incidentally, that's how we ran our foreign policy.
38:36And never encourage a bully.
38:38Put him down in the first place.
38:40Absolutely, put him down in the first place.
38:42And Vikrant, whatever revenue loss you may have on a one game with Pakistan, play two more games, make up for that, but then Pakistan will go bankrupt, won't it?
38:50Karabh, again, let's understand.
38:53I think Sushant does understand the dynamics of how the ICC works.
38:57ICC, again, is not just India, England, Australia, who can generate money on their own.
39:03I mean, the other boards, of course, they do depend a lot on the ICC money.
39:07They're smaller nations.
39:08You know, nations like Oman, nations like Singapore, nations like China, for instance.
39:15So these associate members, they make very little money.
39:18And that money is not sufficient for them to run their cricket.
39:22Look at Hong Kong, for example.
39:23So the moment, you know, the value of one ICC tournament goes down, somehow, it'll have a spiral effect.
39:30But let me also tell you that I feel that the broadcast money in the ICC tournaments is also on the higher side.
39:38I mean, there was a time when you had an Australia and England and India, even a Pakistan, a Sri Lanka, a West Indies.
39:46Now, you've got just three or four teams playing.
39:49And, you know, fortunately, the start to this World Cup has been good.
39:53Otherwise, 20 teams, one-sided, four teams playing to the best of their ability.
39:58Others, just being a guachi ga, doesn't make a commercial success, even for the broadcaster.
40:05Fair enough.
40:05So, this is a debate that we will continue to have.
40:08But the effort will remain that a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror has to be called out and kept in its place.
40:15I want to thank all my guests.
40:16The Sarsangchalak of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Mohan Bhagwat, was speaking at the centenary celebrations of the Sangh
40:24and spoke of the right time to confer Bharat Ratna on Veer Savarkar, Vinayak Damodar Savarkar.
40:33In fact, he went on to say that this would actually enhance the prestige of the honour, of the Bharat Ratna.
40:39The Congress has come out all guns blazing.
40:42They're saying it was Vinayak Damodar Savarkar who was propagating the two-nation theory.
40:49Massive politics.
40:50Massive politics.
40:51The BJP has backed Mr. Bhagwat's remarks.
40:56The Shiv Sena, Uddhav Thakri group, accused the ruling party of using Savarkar's legacy for politics.
41:02Let me get you more in this report.
41:04Swatandri Veer, Savarkar ko Bharat Ratna milla nahi milla.
41:08So, if Bharat Ratna milla, to us samman ka goro badhega.
41:12Mohan Bhagwat said the cat among the pigeons at an event to mark 100 years of RSS in Mumbai.
41:29His suggestion to give Bharat Ratna the high civilian honour to Vinayak Damodar Savarkar has sparked a debate.
41:36Swatandri Veer, Savarkar ko Bharat Ratna milla nahi milla.
41:40So, if Bharat Ratna milla, to us samman ka goro badhega.
41:44Bina us samman ke hi, wo laakho parodo rudeo ke samraat bane hai.
41:51The Congress has hit back hard, accusing Savarkar of propagating the two-nation theory first.
41:57A claim that was echoed by Asad Uddin Ovesi.
42:15The BJP backed Bhagwat's call, turning the Rao into a full-blown political face-off.
42:43The ship Sena UBT accused the BJP of using Savarkar's name for political gain.
43:04Meanwhile, Savarkar's family backed the cause for honoring the Hindutva icon.
43:11Meanwhile, Savarkar's family backed the cause for honoring the Hindutva icon.
43:29As the RSS statement fuels a nationwide political clash, the big question now,
43:49will Vee Savarkar be awarded Bharat Ratna?
43:53With Rahul Gautam, Bureau Report, India Today.
43:55And the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sarsangchalak Mohan Bhagwat also sounded an alarm
44:04over the threat of ghuspaitiyas or illegal infiltrators in our country.
44:09And he's called for stronger action to detect and ultimately deport these infiltrators or the ghuspaitiyas.
44:16Mohan Bhagwat said, employment must go to citizens of the country.
44:20Jobs must not go to infiltrators, regardless of their religion, but not to illegal immigrants.
44:27Listen in.
44:28Now, in the case of government, the government must have to do a lot of detect and deporting.
44:37It must have to do a lot of detect and deporting.
44:38If it wasn't enough, now it started to start.
44:41It will grow.
44:42There will be a census or a SIR, there will be a lot of people who come in front of the country,
44:48who are not here, who are not here.
44:51They will go to their own process.
44:52This will be happening.
44:54and we don't give a day
44:57which is our country
44:59Muslim even
45:01we don't give a day
45:04we don't give a day
45:05we can do this
45:06let's say
45:08you should be aware of it
45:11you should see
45:11then you should do it
45:13then you should have a job
45:16in your childhood
45:17big most people
45:19will get
45:20the Hindu society has left this small job
45:25and all people are running behind big nukariyon
45:28and this is why there is no one who is not
45:32so they are not going to die
45:34so they are not going to die
45:37but in all kinds of work we need to do
45:40and if you don't say Hindu
45:45they are also going to be this country
45:47foreign
45:54foreign
46:01foreign
46:06foreign
46:11foreign
46:14After all of this, we have to do all of this.
46:20Then we can go in a good way.
46:44Now, officials say the reset in ties could tighten the net around Khalistan networks operating in Canada.
46:57They're using Canada for funding, logistics, threats to India, and with real-time intelligence sharing,
47:03perhaps even operations by the Canadian authorities to target terror financing,
47:07narcotic groups, cyber-terrorism, and of course, extremist mobilization.
47:12Both sides have agreed to treat the issue as terrorism and extremism and not an issue of free speech.
47:18And this marks a major diplomatic shift ahead of the expected Prime Minister Narendra Modi
47:25and Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney's engagement.
47:30I want to quickly cut across and bring in India Today's Pranay Upadhyay for more on this.
47:35Pranay, bring us details because what was happening in the times of Justin Trudeau,
47:40so much so that India's High Commissioner and officials had to be called back
47:44to this cooperation with the NSA's visit, marks a major shift.
47:51Absolutely, there's a major shift happening here, Gaurav.
47:54And this is also an expression and a validation of the change of perception in Canada
47:59and the change of policy in the Canadian government.
48:03India's National Security Advisor, Ajit Doval, visited Canada, Ottawa, on 7th of February.
48:09And he had a detailed conversation with the various officials of the Canadian government.
48:14And Mark Carney is also expected in India.
48:16So this is also considered as a preparatory visit for Prime Minister Mark Carney's India visit.
48:21But besides that, there is a serious conversation regarding, you know,
48:24the taking on or to containing and controlling the Khalistani elements.
48:28And this is not for the first time India has raised this issue.
48:31You mentioned about, you know, the things, how things deteriorated during Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government.
48:36But there is a realization on part of Canada, especially after Prime Minister Mark Carney took over the office.
48:43And he wanted to have a, build this relationship.
48:46He wanted to have a better relationship with India.
48:50And to have that, this is a prerequisite.
48:52You know, that Canada takes strict action against the elements,
48:56those who are now becoming detrimental for Canada's own law and order issue.
48:59And this is the thing.
49:00Good point that you raised.
49:01We'll track that story very, very closely, Pranay, for the moment.
49:05And thanks for joining me.
49:06This is a story we'll be tracking very closely.
49:08That is all I have time for on India First this evening.
49:11And thanks for watching.
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