- 6 months ago
This edition of India First focusses on the aftermath of the Asia Cup cricket match where India defeated Pakistan by seven wickets and declined to shake hands with Pakistani players, a gesture linked to solidarity with victims of the Pahalgam terror attack.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening. Pakistan, a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror, is in total meltdown mode.
00:09In fact, Pakistan is now sulking after Indian skipper Surya Kumar Yadav refused to shake hands with the Pakistani skipper,
00:16not just after the toss, but even after the match.
00:20India decimated Pakistan by seven wickets.
00:23But even post-match, Team India went into a dressing room, did not shake hands with the Pakistani team.
00:28Pakistan claims India lacks sportsman spirit.
00:32Team India, already in the eye of a storm for playing Asia Cup against the popular national sentiment that says,
00:39don't play with a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror, not just bilateral, but even multilateral series.
00:44The players have said they're just doing their duty.
00:48It's their duty to play, so they're doing it.
00:50But their heart is with the soldiers and with the victims of the Pehelgaam terror attack.
00:56Shaking hands is not their duty.
00:59They stand in solidarity with the victims of Pehelgaam terror and the Braves who decimated Pakistan in Operation Sindhu.
01:17India's handshakes numb. Pakistan stumped.
01:21No handshake humiliation for Pakistan.
01:34We came here, we took a call and I feel we came here just to play the game.
01:38I think that's and we gave the proper reply.
01:44Team India's Pehelgaam solidarity.
01:47We stand by with the victims of the families of the Pehelgaam terror attack and we express our solidarity.
01:57Scorned Pakistan in meltdown mode.
01:59It's a game run.
02:02I don't like the postmaster, I'll be honest with you.
02:05It's okay, Sarman, you're going to come here.
02:07It's okay, you're going to press conference.
02:09It's okay, you're going to come here.
02:09It's okay, you're going to come here.
02:10Pakistan cricket boat cries foul.
02:13India stands firm.
02:15From war front to cricket pitch.
02:25Terrorist dance humiliation complete.
02:35That is a big focus on India first.
02:37And a frustrated Pakistan has now demanded that the match referee, Andy Pycroft, be removed immediately.
02:50In fact, reports from Pakistan indicate that Pakistan is threatening to walk out of the remaining matches of the Asia Cup if Andy Pycroft is not removed.
02:59Pakistan cricket board chief Mohsin Nakui, who incidentally also heads the Asian Cricket Council, he's blaming the match referee for telling the captains not to shake hands.
03:08So is Pakistan raising this rhetoric only to divert attention from its shameful performance on the field?
03:17And did India do the right thing by playing Pakistan in a multilateral series, winning the match and not shaking hands with the Pakistani players?
03:24Or is there merit in those within the country saying India should have opted out?
03:28We debate.
03:29Coming up at 8.30 tonight, Prime Minister Narendra Modi's 40,000 crore rupee project in Bihar.
03:36And we also get you the inside details of the BMW accident in the national capital.
03:43Why was the Deputy Secretary of the Ministry of Finance when a BMW came and hit his motorcycle?
03:50Why was he and his wife taken to a hospital 19 kilometers away, not Delhi and not the nearest hospital, which was the Army Hospital, just a couple of kilometers away?
04:03Why? I'm Gaurav Savan. We get you all these stories in an action-packed India first special, but first, the headlines.
04:16Prime Minister Narendra Modi takes the Congress, RJD Jamaat Jive in Bihar, pledges to flush out infiltrators packed by the opposition from across the country.
04:26Finance Ministry Deputy Secretary Navjot Singh killed in a car crash.
04:51The accused BMW driver, Gaganpreet Kaur, arrested by Delhi police, probing a possible cover-up by the accused, Gaganpreet Kaur.
05:07Supreme Court temporarily stays part of the VUKF law, temporary stay on five years in Islam need, no third-party right on disputed assets, upholds registration of VUKF assets.
05:21Shocking revelation in the Disha Patni firing case, probe reveals the attacker's intended to kill the actor's father.
05:35Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanad speaks to Disha Patni's father and assures him stern action will be taken.
05:44Big AIA-DMK unification bid in Delhi ahead of Tamil Nadu elections after Sengoteyan's AIA-DMK,
05:59General Secretary E. Palani Swami to meet Home Minister Amit Shah in Delhi.
06:03The expert leader, Sasi Kala Eko's AIA-DMK unity call.
06:08So it clearly wasn't just cricket, it was a statement made by the men in blue.
06:22Team India's seven-wicket win over Pakistan came with a firm, silent, yet extremely strong message.
06:32No smiles, no handshakes and no camaraderie, no sportsman spirit with players that represent a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror, Pakistan.
06:42And Pakistan, after its massive defeat, not just during Operation Sindur, but now in Dubai is sulking.
06:51Pakistan has lodged a protest, Pakistan is crying foul, but the big question is all of this, just diversionary tactics.
06:57Because in Pakistan, there's tremendous criticism, not just of the players, but also Mohsen Nakwee, what kind of team did Pakistan select and send?
07:06But at home in India, politics on the subject has escalated.
07:10BCCIA remains in the line of fire for choosing money, as some argue, over national pride.
07:16On paper, it was a seven-wicket win for India in the Asia Cup.
07:30But beyond the scoreboard, it was a clear snub, which played out silently on the field.
07:37Pakistan is fuming, crying foul and demanding action.
07:41The reason? Team India's refusal to shake hands with Pakistani players.
07:47Heads!
07:47After the toss, skipper Surya Kumariyadav stood aside, avoiding handshake with his Pakistani counterpart.
07:55And after India's win, the men in blue walked straight off the pitch.
08:00No smiles, no post-match handshakes.
08:05I think we had perfect, our government and BCCI, we were aligned together and rent rest.
08:12We came here, we took a call and I feel we came here just to play the game.
08:17I think that's and we gave the proper reply.
08:23The Indian captain dedicated the win to the victims of the Pehelgaam terror attack.
08:27What a way to finish this match.
08:30We stand by with the victims of the families of Pehelgaam terror attack and we express our solidarity.
08:38And also, the most important thing for me, we want to dedicate today's win to all our armed forces who showed a lot of bravery.
08:47The match is going to be important because as a team, we wanted to show our solidarity towards the victims of all the families that have gone through during the Pehelgaam attack.
08:58And more importantly, we want to thank the armed forces for their successful Operation Sindhurt.
09:02And I'm sure we'll try and make the country proud and try and make the country happy.
09:08Pakistan called it unsporting.
09:10They boycotted the post-match presentation ceremony.
09:13The PCB went into overdrive, filling a formal complaint with the ICC, demanding removal of match referee
09:42Andy Pycroft.
09:45Their charge, violation of the spirit of cricket.
09:49Back home, politics on the issue rages.
09:52The opposition is calling Team India's gesture an attempt to win back credibility lost by the BCCI
09:58and the government when they allowed the match to go ahead.
10:03I think the government very clearly chose profit over patriotism.
10:09The government of India chose TRP and sponsorships more than patriotism.
10:15And what was the necessity to play?
10:18And what happens if you lose some points in Asia Cup?
10:21What happens even if there is no Asia Cup with it?
10:23We have won it so many times.
10:26Pakistan is rattled.
10:28Politicians in India are divided.
10:30The big question lingers, can sports ever truly stay free from politics?
10:34Bureau Report, India Today.
10:46News just coming in.
10:47Pakistan is threatening to boycott the Asia Cup.
10:49If the match referee Andy Pycroft is not removed immediately, Indian skipper Surya Kumar Yadav, from what sources are telling India today,
11:00Team India is very clear.
11:01There's unlikely to be a handshake with the Pakistanis even next time when we play them.
11:07The next clash is on the 22nd of September.
11:10As Pakistan reels from this defeat and humiliation in Dubai, Pakistan's meltdown continues.
11:17Now, we're just being told heads have already rolled in Pakistan.
11:21The Pakistan Cricket Board has suspended its Director of International Cricket Operations, Usman Vahla,
11:28citing his failure to act on the handshake controversy after the snub spiraled into a massive embarrassment for Pakistan.
11:37So, from the field to the boardroom, India's cold shoulder has left Pakistan embarrassed and red-faced.
11:45I quickly want to cut across to India Today's Rahul Rawat for more on this.
11:50Rahul, what can you tell me about, one, Pakistan's threat not to play the next match if Andy Pycroft is not removed?
11:59And is he likely to be removed, the match referee?
12:02Well, Gaurav, the complaint, in fact, two complaints were lodged by the PCV, the Pakistan Cricket Board.
12:11One, of course, to Andy Pycroft, who was the match referee.
12:15And the other one, against match referee Andy Pycroft, that complaint was lodged before the International Cricket Council.
12:23Now, this is a whale threat and also, you know, Pakistan Cricket Board of late has been, they systematically leak a few things before, to their media.
12:37And those who do not toe their line, they are denied accreditation.
12:40That is what has happened in the Asia Cup as well.
12:44I know a few journalists were denied accreditations.
12:48The PCB refused to give them accreditations for the Asia Cup because they could not or they did not toe PCBs' line.
12:57Now, it's a whale threat that is being circulated by the PCB through their media.
13:03A, currently, right now, there's a game happening between UAE and Oman.
13:11And UAE, they are on the verge of winning this game.
13:14So, if UAE win this game and Pakistan forfeit their game, Pakistan are out of the tournament.
13:21We were talking about three potential matches between India and Pakistan.
13:25There could be a possibility where even the second game may not be possible between India and Pakistan.
13:32As you said, about the handshakes in the next game, not happening.
13:37Absolutely not happening.
13:39And as far as handshakes are concerned, it's a convention.
13:43There is no written rule that the two captains or the players have to greet each other, have to shake hands after the match gets over.
13:51So, it has happened in the past.
13:53There have been instances where the players have not greeted each other after the game.
13:59And that is exactly what happened in this game as well.
14:03Stay with me and we'll continue to track developments and I have a huge panel of experts joining me on this show.
14:10Is there merit in Mohsin Nakwe demanding the immediate removal of the match referee Andy Poycroft?
14:15Is Pakistan trying to divert attention from its defeat?
14:18Some reports talk about Pakistan threatening to walk out of all the remaining matches.
14:23Should India and Pakistan actually be playing cricket even if it's not at bilateral but at multilateral level when Pakistan uses terror as an instrument of state policy?
14:33And does that help India as some argue with the Commonwealth Games or Olympic Games not just hosting it but will we walk out of the Commonwealth Games?
14:41Will we walk out of Asian Games and Olympic Games?
14:43Or is that just a very convenient fig leaf?
14:46Joining me on this India First special broadcast, Kirti Azad and Madan Lal.
14:51Two former India players, World Cup winning team members, former India cricketers.
14:56Sir, welcome.
14:57Left-in-Channel Raj Shukla is former army commander.
15:00Joins us for the strategic perspective.
15:02Sushant Sarin is a senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation.
15:05Very clearly of the opinion India should not be playing Pakistan either bilateral or multilateral if I get you correctly, Sushant.
15:11Nikhil Naaz is consultant editor, Sports India Today TV.
15:14Neeru Bhatia is a senior sports journalist and columnist with us on the show.
15:18But Kirti Azad, as a sportsman and somebody who was a part of the World Cup winning team,
15:24what should one make of Pakistan's current tantrums?
15:27Mohsen Nakwee says either you remove Andy Pycroft, that's what the Pakistani side are saying,
15:31or they will not play the remaining matches.
15:34And the fact, he says, it was Andy Pycroft who said the captain should not shake hands.
15:43I don't care a damn about Pakistan, as far as I'm concerned.
15:47I'm concerned that the war is still on.
15:50I'm supposed to believe my Prime Minister.
15:52He said Operation Sindhu is on.
15:53And we are playing whether bilateral or multilateral, ICC, ACC, International Cricket Council, Asia Cricket Council,
16:01or terrorists are not greater than the nation.
16:05Once you come out and say, we are really fighting hard and we've shown Pakistan their place,
16:12there's not a single country that is supporting you.
16:15Pakistan has become the anti-terror country's vice chairman.
16:20And here we are, playing against Pakistan.
16:24Is any individual, any organization, or any game above the nation?
16:31We have had Pulwamas, we've had Yuris, we've had Pahlgaab, we've had Pathankot.
16:38We're playing against them.
16:42That's a very fair point you made.
16:43Let me get you in Shukla.
16:44What is this?
16:48That's a very big point.
16:49Is it a joke, is it a joke, 26 people can't even be cold?
16:54And permission is given by the government.
16:58Please, for God's sake, know that.
17:01If you cannot call artists, if you cannot have trade, you can't have terror and talks can't go together.
17:07Then how can you play cricket is the question when the Honourable Prime Minister of this country says that the war is on.
17:19So, Operation Sidur has turned into Chashmai Baddur with Pakistan.
17:23What do you think it's an insult to play Pakistan? Rubbish!
17:24You think it's an insult to play Pakistan in a multilateral series?
17:32Nikhil, do you want to quickly respond before I bring General Raj Shukla into this conversation?
17:35Well, you know, I look at it very differently, Gaurav.
17:40First thing, I think we need to make a distinction between bilateral engagements and multilateral engagements.
17:47And I'll state this as well, that I'm not saying this and I'm not of the opinion that India and Pakistan play cricket now.
17:53I've said it even before the government actually decided.
17:55So, I'm very politically neutral when I comment on this.
17:59My point is that when you play Pakistan bilaterally, that's like extending a hand of friendship.
18:04So, when you talk about trade, it's a bilateral exercise.
18:07When you talk about artists, it's a bilateral exercise.
18:10And what India has said, we're not engaging with them bilaterally.
18:13Now, multilateral tournaments are a different thing.
18:16My point is, why should you isolate yourself by not participating in these tournaments?
18:21You should look to isolate Pakistan from that stage, which is not happening at the moment.
18:26Why would you want to give Pakistan everything on the platter so they can continue participating in these tournaments while you yourself are isolated?
18:33If you look at all the past examples, like apartheid, for example, the rest of the world got together and excluded South Africa, the guilty party.
18:40In this case, if you consider Pakistan as the guilty party, they should be the one eliminated from multilateral tournaments, not India.
18:48And it's going to…
18:48India Azad, you want to quickly respond?
18:49Where are you going to draw the line then?
18:51Does it stop at just Asia Cup?
18:52What do you do in the ICC tournaments?
18:54What do you do with the Olympics?
18:55Are you going to sit out of all tournaments?
18:57As an Indian fan, as a follower of Indian sport, I wouldn't like to see that.
19:01That Pakistan enjoys the fruits of playing internationally and all Indian players need to sit out.
19:06Okay.
19:06Good point.
19:07I want to bring in General Raj Shukla, I believe we've lost that link with Kirti Azad.
19:11General Shukla, you want to weigh in on this?
19:14Is Pakistan now throwing tantrums?
19:17You know, saying either you remove the match referee or we don't play.
19:20They've lost the match.
19:22They've lost face.
19:23And they're saying India did not shake hands with us.
19:26We will not play because the match referee told them not to play.
19:29What do you make of the games that Pakistan is playing?
19:31In my first observation, Gaurav, is that they have been decimated both on the battlefield and the cricket field.
19:41So, in every field, they're talking about it.
19:44But you know, the larger issue is this.
19:46And I was thinking when your guest relations executive invited me on the show.
19:51As a formal soldier, at a personal level, I would have liked to stay away.
19:57Let me say that up front.
19:59Because after all, Pahalgaam was gruesome, it was tragic, ghastly.
20:04We know all of that.
20:05But let me say this.
20:06We responded to Pahalgaam in such a military fashion that Pakistan was decimated.
20:13Now, what if our response was not effective and we had not played cricket?
20:20Here, our military decimation was complete and we chose to play.
20:26But what I would like to focus on as a soldier is a different issue.
20:29It is not these things about cricket.
20:31But with Pakistan, because he's been so badly decimated, he's more dangerous.
20:37So, what is the future?
20:38Combat over match.
20:39See, the broad point, I make it, it also comes in the Sino-Indian context.
20:44I say grow, increase the flights with Beijing, increase the flights with Shanghai,
20:50but also increase your defense budget.
20:53I mean, these are the issues we have to say.
20:55How long can we sulk after Galwan?
20:58So, I think, you know, the broader relationship has to be seen.
21:01I'm not privy to what, you know, issues decided India playing Pakistan.
21:06It was not the BCCI alone.
21:09It was not profits.
21:10It was the government.
21:12So, were there some issues of statecraft?
21:14I'm not too sure.
21:16And the last point I'd like to make is this.
21:18See, we in the military are wired differently.
21:21We make a point.
21:23We advise.
21:24But our whole military ethos is deep enough to take decisions which we agree with and decisions we don't agree with.
21:32So, decisions we don't agree with, we salute and obey.
21:35So, in that sense, I mean, that's my overall response.
21:38Personally, I would have preferred that we don't play.
21:41But sometimes, I'm not privy to the reasons.
21:43There may be larger issues of statecraft.
21:46So, I mean, that is my response to, you know, whether we should have played or not.
21:49Okay, and you make a fair point.
21:52Okay, Sushant Sarin wants to comment.
21:53Before I bring you in, Sushant Sarin, permit me to bring in Madan Lal into this conversation.
21:58Madanji, when you look at the ground realities, as the general very rightly pointed out, India decimated Pakistan in Operation Sindur.
22:07And Indian, Team India decimated Team Pakistan in Dubai.
22:12What do you make of Pakistan sulking right now?
22:14Saying either you remove the match referee or we will not play.
22:18And accusing Indians of not playing the gentleman's game in its current form.
22:24In its correct perspective.
22:25No, first of all, you know, Pakistan has to be a gentleman.
22:29You know, they are not a gentleman.
22:30Let's not use the word for them.
22:33Other thing is, like Surya Kumar Yadav, whatever he said, I stand by it.
22:38Because the BCCA must have told him.
22:41Or the team management must have decided that's what we're going to do.
22:46Whether we win or lose, that's what we're going to do.
22:47But definitely, I appreciate Surya Kumar Yadav because he dedicated this victory to the Palgamum victims.
22:58And we stand by that, you know.
23:00And I'm very proud that they have beaten Pakistan in the first game.
23:06So, Sushant Sareen, good enough response by India.
23:10Very proud that, you know, as General Shukla put it, India defeated Pakistan during Operation Sindur.
23:15And Team India defeated Pakistan in Dubai and did not shake hands with them.
23:22India also said, next match, we will not shake hands with them.
23:25If we win, this is of course coming through sources, will not take a trophy from Mohsen Nakvi.
23:31Yeah, Gaurav, I see this as virtue signaling from the Indian side.
23:36Not that I blame the cricketers for it.
23:38I blame the board and the government for what decisions have been taken.
23:42And General Shukla likes to believe that there was some higher statecraft involved.
23:48But frankly, I have yet to hear a single, a single compelling argument to justify playing with Pakistan at this point in time.
23:58At a time when India is openly accusing this country of being a terrorist state, we have severed all other connections.
24:06Why are we playing cricket?
24:07I agree with Nikhil.
24:09We should not walk out of multilateral tournaments if Pakistan is part of it.
24:14But what we can do at the very minimum is that if at all there is an occasion where an India-Pakistan match is fixed, we will boycott that match even if we have to dox our points.
24:27I don't have a problem with that.
24:29And it is not only…
24:30But then Pakistan then graduates to the next level and we will lose out.
24:33One second, one second.
24:35Now, if you want to think strategically, I'll tell you.
24:38You know, it's not only people like General Shukla and people from his biradery who are to lay their lives down and give sacrifices for this country.
24:49I think if the cricketers and the cricket board and the government of India was also to make some sacrifices by saying that we will not play this terrorist-sponsoring country, heavens will not fall.
25:02To say that what will happen, we might not win a World Cup, we might not win a World Cup ever again, right?
25:08From 83 to what, 2011, we never won a World Cup.
25:11Did heavens fall?
25:13So, if we don't win a World Cup, nothing will happen.
25:15Number two, the thing is that how do you make an example and how do you convince the rest of the world that you have a sense of outrage and that you feel that by playing these people, you are going to be sending a wrong message.
25:32You say, I will not play with them.
25:33I don't care what happens to the revenue stream and I don't care what happens to my points.
25:38But I will not play them.
25:40What is the message that will be?
25:41Don't tie these guys together.
25:43Don't make them play.
25:45Unlike this Asia Cup, which is only being played so that India and Pakistan can play three matches together, enough money can be made so that other boards can be given money.
25:56Is it India's responsibility to make sure that other boards get money over and above what our national interest demands?
26:02I don't think so.
26:03So, I have not heard a single compelling argument to justify playing against Pakistan at this point in time.
26:10Before I bring in Neeru Bhatia, let me get Madhan Lal to respond to this very pertinent point you make.
26:14Sir, if Asia Cup is cancelled even this year, what will it be done with that?
26:18At least there is a message that terror and sports cannot happen together.
26:22Let's play the next year.
26:24I agree with you, Gaurav.
26:28But we are the hosts.
26:31We have to decide whether we want to cancel it or we want to go ahead with it.
26:35So, that's the BCCI decision.
26:37And the government decision, definitely, if the government can take a strong decision, nothing is going to happen.
26:44But the only thing is that you cannot boycott the Pakistan as a cricket team because you are an ACC member.
26:53There are a few members and they are part of it.
26:59They can say, okay, don't play.
27:01Don't play with Pakistan.
27:03Okay, okay, India doesn't play.
27:04If you don't play, there is no one thing.
27:05We will play from the other side.
27:07So, this is not going to happen.
27:08Cricket has to go on.
27:10But not as an expansion of terrorism.
27:13That's what I agree with that.
27:15Okay, Neeru Bhatia, let me bring you into this conversation.
27:18If tensions are so high, don't play.
27:21Or play but not shake hands with Pakistan just as we have done this time.
27:26Where do you stand on this?
27:27It's a very tough call to make.
27:31Don't play would have been the easier way out.
27:33But I feel that even if…
27:34And we are playing because, obviously, the government wants the team to play.
27:39And the board wants the team to play.
27:40So, we can't blame the players or the team.
27:43So, if we are playing, then don't shake hands is absolutely fine by me.
27:47We don't have to show niceties or do any jhaptis and puppies on the field.
27:52Just do your job.
27:53Win the game.
27:54Beat them.
27:55And come back to your dressing room.
27:57So, according to you, what we are doing is right, Nikhil.
28:00What's the buzz in the BCCI about, for example, that empty stadium?
28:06Or that nationwide call, boycott Pakistan?
28:10And the tantrums that we see from the Pakistani side right now.
28:13Is Pakistan rattled?
28:14Or Pakistan is evil?
28:16It does not get rattled.
28:17It will try and make money out of this.
28:19Like, out of this ACC match.
28:21Out of this Asia Cup match.
28:23Pakistan is making money.
28:24That's right.
28:25But, you know, just to answer that money bogey, Gaurav, the money, like, oftentimes BCCI is blamed that, you know, you're playing for the money.
28:33BCCI hardly makes any money out of this Asia Cup.
28:36In that sense, if BCCI was to organize a tri-series or a bilateral series with another country, they'd probably make the same amount of money as well.
28:44Now, let's address this from the government's point of view.
28:46The money bogey doesn't hold true for them as well.
28:49None of the money that is made here, you know, goes to the coffers of the government as well.
28:53So, just looking at the money thing, I think the decision was taken, you know, with a long-term view in mind.
28:59Just as diplomatic things work, there's never any black or white.
29:02There are lots of grey areas as well.
29:04Listen, your relationship with Pakistan was very different a short while ago.
29:08They're very different right now because the geopolitical situation changes.
29:11And I think that is the long-term view that the government as well as the BCCI may have taken, that when is it that you stop?
29:17Okay, you pull out a one Asia Cup match, then what do you do when the very next competition comes about?
29:22Let's say Neeraj Chopra in the Javelin of the World Championship two weeks later.
29:25What happens three weeks later when there's an ICC tournament?
29:28I think that actually leaves you red-faced.
29:30You say, now, I'm not playing this game.
29:32Two weeks later, you're playing another game.
29:33So, people might ask, what happened to your boycott?
29:35Yes.
29:35So, then are you prepared to have a long-term boycott that, okay, next five, six years,
29:40we don't have any sporting ambitions, we're not going to participate in any tournament,
29:44whether at the Olympic level, because what if we come across Pakistani wrestlers in the Olympic bout or whatever?
29:49You need to look at it in a long-term thing and I think that is what they've looked at.
29:53As for this particular tournament is concerned, I think there was a message that the team has really sent out
29:57and that is something that I've been saying it for a long time,
30:00that playing Pakistan on the cricket field is no aman ki asha.
30:04You're not extending a hand of friendship.
30:05It's no way an admission that, listen, everything is fine.
30:08You go out there as representatives of your country, you give your best, you do your performance
30:12and post that, you say, no, we don't want to shake hands because everything is not fine.
30:16We're professional cricketers.
30:17It's a big tournament and we're playing that.
30:19So does Neeru Bhatia.
30:20I want to bring in Madanlal and General Shukla also.
30:22Sushant, go first.
30:24Yeah, no, I think Nikhil is confusing a couple of issues.
30:28You know, when he talks about Olympic Games.
30:30So, for example, if it's the javelin final, there are about seven or eight javelin throwers.
30:36It's not just the two guys fighting with each other, right?
30:38Or contending with each other.
30:39There are seven or eight.
30:40It's a luck of the draw.
30:42It happens.
30:42It happens.
30:43It's not that you're doing directly with this guy.
30:46Yes, maybe in a wrestling match, you can say that, look, if I am pitted against a Pakistani wrestler,
30:51I'm not going to play against him, no matter what happens.
30:54As a country, we need to be able to take those decisions.
30:58Now, on the cricket field, in fact, my position is that you hold, for example, let us hold an ICC tournament.
31:05Let's say we are holding a World Cup in India.
31:07And it just so happens that you reach a particular stage, maybe a Super 6 or whatever you want to call it,
31:13where you have a match against Pakistan.
31:15But not because the draw was deliberately done that, you know, you have a first match with Pakistan.
31:21But it happens in the course of the thing.
31:23I think India should be in a position to say, okay, fine, I'm sorry, I'm not going to play against them.
31:29If it means I'm doxing points, I'll dox points.
31:32But you can also lift your game to a point where it's not necessary that even if you've lost those two points against Pakistan,
31:39you don't make it to the next stage.
31:40That's quite possible, isn't it?
31:42So, I think we should, we are trying to confuse a lot of issues.
31:45We have to take a policy decision on how we deal with a terrorist sponsoring country,
31:51which is wantonly coming into India and killing our citizens.
31:54And with which we have extremely, extremely bad relations.
31:58If, of course, two years from now, relations improve, the Pakistanis back off,
32:03they clean up the terror swarms in their country, impossible.
32:05As long as Pakistan is alive, that's not going to happen.
32:08But let us imagine for a moment that happens.
32:11Then, yes, why not?
32:12We will play with them.
32:13Why not?
32:14I don't have any problems on that count.
32:16As they say, pigs might fly and they may fly earlier.
32:19Then Pakistan is sorting itself out.
32:21Clearly, that state sponsor of radical Islamist terror is not improving.
32:25We've seen that from 1947.
32:26Just 10 seconds.
32:27I was just, you know, wasn't really confusing the issues.
32:30We've had a real-life situation when Neera Chopra had to cancel an event
32:34because Arshad Nadeem was participating.
32:36There were 10 other javelin throwers, but that event was cancelled.
32:39So, it's, you know, then the question is where do you draw the line?
32:42You skip a Super 6 game, what if it's a semi-final?
32:45You can't really have a, you know, different strategy for different parts of the tournament.
32:50Either you play or you don't play them.
32:52And that's what I think the decision makers have to keep all that in mind
32:55when they come up with a policy as the government has come out with.
32:58Okay, and that policy, Madhanji, is play, defeat Pakistan, don't shake hands.
33:03Now, India, I think, is taking it to the next level.
33:06Madhanji, now that they're saying that if Mohsen Nakwe is to give away the prize,
33:10India will not take it from him or not share the dice with him.
33:13That sends across a more powerful message?
33:17Yeah, definitely.
33:17He sends a more powerful message because if you're not taking a trophy from Mohsen Nakwe,
33:24then I think for Pakistan, it's humiliating.
33:29But Pakistan is not going to solve the problem.
33:34The only thing that solves the problem is how you deal with the Pakistani.
33:38They're not going to improve.
33:39Look at the 75 years.
33:41They're not improved.
33:41They don't improve at all.
33:44And the only thing, they have a cricket, that's all.
33:48They only think about the cricket, if they beat us,
33:51then they'll be very, very happy that,
33:53look, we have beaten Pakistan.
33:54That's the only thing we have.
33:55No, General Shukla, sir, that's such an important point to make.
33:58And Madhanji, stay with me.
33:59That's a very important point you're making.
34:01General Shukla, if cricket is the only thing that makes Pakistan tick,
34:04that is where we should decimate them completely,
34:07ensure they're not, we shouldn't have referred.
34:10In case we are these superstars as we claim to be in ICC,
34:15and we have the money, we should have Pakistan isolated.
34:19Let there be no Pakistan.
34:21Let them roast in their own hell.
34:23Either you play cricket or you stop terror.
34:27See, what are the linkages of sports with broader issues of national security?
34:32That's the real question.
34:33So, let's go to the Indochino.
34:35See, there was a time when there were distinct periods of war and peace.
34:39They were very clear.
34:40Today, in this age of, you know, gray zone kind of existence,
34:45what China did was blatant military aggression.
34:49What it did in Sindur was military collusivity.
34:52Now, should we stop trading with China?
34:54When we do that, then all the other business trade,
34:57commerce lobbies come and say,
34:58no, you have to trade.
34:59So, I'm saying that we must create deterrence
35:03with China and Pakistan such deterrence that doesn't get breached
35:06and divorce the other aspects of the relationship with national security.
35:13Otherwise, these things don't end.
35:15And now, we are not a small player.
35:17We are the third largest economy,
35:19fourth largest, third largest economy to be.
35:22I'm saying, make your national security system so strong
35:25that cricket, cricket, cricket, committee,
35:27this is a small thing.
35:28Our outreach towards Pakistan must get focused into meaningful development of national security capacities.
35:39Today, there is a combined commanders conference where we are talking of national security reform.
35:45Why are we talking about national security reform?
35:45Why are we talking about that?
35:46Why are we talking about that?
35:46We don't talk about that in cricket.
35:47We don't talk about that in cricket.
35:48No, cricket, but national security as you know better on India today and especially on India first.
35:55For us, all aspects are equally important because this is something that the nation…
35:59I'm not making a point with you, a larger point.
36:03True, true.
36:04Not with you, Gaurav.
36:05You're doing human's work on national security.
36:08Yeah, no, and that point taken entirely
36:10because the commanders conference is also extremely, extremely important.
36:14My point about Pakistan, you know, Neeru Bhatia, Pakistan is today telling India,
36:20Oh, you didn't shake hands with us.
36:22That's not the way gentlemen behave.
36:24The same Pakistan team did not shake hands with the England team in Oval in 2006.
36:29So, look at their blatant double standards and who is Pakistan to talk about a gentleman's game
36:35when Inzamamul Haq tries to convert people to Islam during cricket,
36:40when Shahid Afridi and, you know, Imran Khan talk about jihad for Kashmir and cricket
36:46or words to that effect and all their players.
36:50I mean, just look at how they talk.
36:52This guy Shahid Afridi, Shoye Bakhtar, he talks about Gazwai Hind.
36:58And what kind of gentleman's cricket are they playing if they're talking about Gazwai Hind
37:02and attacking Kashmir and from Atak to Katak?
37:04Gaurak, well, you know, Gaurak, let's be very clear that today, whatever Pakistan has
37:10and the Pakistan cricket board has stated that they've been grumpy, they've been complaining,
37:14they are going to write letters, they've shot off letters to the ICC president, to the ACC president.
37:21All that is just a smoke screen for covering up for a very poor game that the team played
37:27and lost to India, which they're finding it difficult to accept.
37:30That is one thing.
37:31Secondly, this Pakistan team is ranked number 8th in the world.
37:37We are number 1 right now in T20 cricket.
37:40I mean, who's going to listen to them?
37:42There's nobody listening to them.
37:44Having said that, I want to come back to a point with one of the gentlemen's made
37:47that boycotting Pakistan is...
37:52We've been saying that for a long time.
37:55But, you know, look at the other countries.
37:57When it comes to the trade deal or when it comes to other issues, international issues,
38:04look at America, look at the European states.
38:07No, but America and Europe will look after their national interest.
38:11We should look after our national interest.
38:13We don't even seem to be looking after our national interest.
38:15But we also have to play.
38:17I say that if we are good enough, we are number 1 ranked team and we are number 8.
38:21Just trash them and move on if we have to play.
38:23They were told to play.
38:25The team was told to play, so they played.
38:27It wasn't the team's fault.
38:28The government told them to go ahead and play.
38:31The BCK told them to go ahead and play.
38:33So, what does the team do?
38:35What do the players do?
38:37Okay.
38:37Sushant Sareen, there was no alternative and there was no option.
38:41Like soldiers, as General Shukla said, once a soldier has been given an order,
38:45he fulfills that order.
38:46Team India was given that order.
38:47Play.
38:48They played and they defeated to the best of their ability.
38:51That's all we can do.
38:51Defeat them in every match.
38:53Gaurav, I said that right at the outset.
38:58That I am not going to blame the players.
39:00Because the itinerary is not decided by the players.
39:03It is decided by the board.
39:04But I have two very quick points to make.
39:06One is a question to Nikhil, which I am a little bemused about.
39:12Because is the PCC chief Mohsen Nakwe going to complain to the ACC chief Mohsen Nakwe?
39:19So, the same guy is going to be writing to the same guy.
39:21How does that work?
39:22I am just trying to figure that out.
39:24Maybe Nikhil can tell us.
39:25So, it is going to be a complaint to the ICC because the match referee, our ICC contracted.
39:32So, they are complaining to the ICC saying that have Andy Parkard removed from that game versus UAE.
39:39Otherwise, we won't be playing that.
39:40But is that the PCC saying it or is that the ACC saying it?
39:43Because the ACC really, you know, between the ACC and the ICC, it is not really an affiliated body of the ICC.
39:52ICC really doesn't call the shots as far as the ACC is concerned.
39:56ACC doesn't have to follow a lot of the stuff which the ICC follows.
40:00So, again, there is that problem out there.
40:03Second, look, I don't disagree with what General Shukla is saying and the larger point he makes about building up our national security sinews and to be able to deter and combat the enemies on the border.
40:15I take that point very well.
40:17My only problem is that, look, you know, when you are combating against an enemy, then you have to, depending on who your enemy is, it has to be a multifarious kind of an attack.
40:27Now, when Madallalji talks about the Pakistanis have not changed for 75 years, they will not change.
40:33The reason they have not also changed is because we have normalized normal contact with them and said, okay, we will compartmentalize the terrorism and all the other inimical actions that you do.
40:46We will put that in a separate box and the Mushairas and Mombatti marches and, you know, movies and all that other stuff which we do with you, that will continue as business as normal.
40:56I have a problem with that now.
40:59I think the time has come where we say that it cannot be a normal relationship until and unless this scourge of terrorism which we have imposed on us has to be ended.
41:09This jihadism, this nonsense of Gazwa-e-Hind has to end.
41:13If you are going to continue with me, sorry, we will have no truck with you.
41:18We will not give you any kind of courtesies, not extend any courtesies towards you.
41:23That's my opinion.
41:24I agree totally with what Mr. Sreen says.
41:29Every word of what he said.
41:30But then that's also the call of the government of India and that is not coming.
41:34That's my problem.
41:36Absolutely.
41:37No, I completely point taken, General Shukla.
41:39I don't see how the government, they are digging the hole deeper for themselves by coming out with clarifications and the ministers and, you know, other people making statements.
41:50They are only digging the hole deeper for themselves.
41:53They should keep quiet and sit it out because they are already getting pilloried and nobody is convinced of the logic or the reasons that they are giving.
42:02None of them hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
42:05And, General Shukla, if SARK could have been put on hold, SARK which is such an important body since 2012 because of terror, since 2014, we haven't gone to Pakistan for SARK.
42:18We haven't had SARK ever since.
42:20How can we have ACC cricket?
42:23Clearly, cricket can't be more important than a SARK meeting or a regional grouping meeting, sir.
42:29So, see, with Pakistan, we have done all the things Sushant is suggesting.
42:33Candlelight vigil has closed, it has closed, it has closed, it has closed, it has closed, it has closed.
42:39Now, we have saved the cricket.
42:41If you don't play cricket, then don't play.
42:43But in the larger sense, I am making Pakistan is the best.
42:47Does it deserve so much television time?
42:49There are better things to do.
42:50On a lighter note, on an ICC, on a ICC, on a ICC.
42:54My point is, if South Africa could have been removed from apartheid to the ICC, why can't we galvanize global opinion to get Pakistan out?
43:07If cricket is the only thing that makes Pakistan tick, get it out.
43:12Then let them decide, do they want cricket, do they want terror or do they want to be a part of the civilized world?
43:17I would say, do they want to be a part of the civilized world?
43:20Look at our country, look at the debate around it.
43:23It is so civilized and mature.
43:24I was watching a statement, I don't know who, I don't know who.
43:29He said that Pakistan won is a victory for Islam.
43:33What do you think of the country?
43:34So we are a sensible nation, we are having an intelligent debate.
43:38One point I would like to make in a light-hearted manner, I was actually a cricketing buff 10-15 years back.
43:44Since China has started rising, I have stopped watching cricket.
43:47There are better things to do, more important things to do.
43:50So in that sense, there are better things to do.
43:56I mean, that's the only appeal I can make.
43:58And the last point I wish to make it, that see, ultimately it was not a BCCI decision.
44:03It was a government decision, a government which has been so firm on other aspects.
44:07What was it?
44:08I really don't know.
44:09There must have been something substantive, that they have made such a decision when much of the national mood was against it.
44:16Now that mystifies me.
44:17I don't know.
44:18I have no insider dope.
44:19I don't know.
44:20Okay.
44:21And we are seeking answers.
44:23Okay, Neeru Bhatia, last 30 seconds that I have on this part of the show.
44:25Go on, man.
44:25Last word to you.
44:27I was just agreeing with exactly what the general was saying.
44:30That what was the reason, it's a big mystery that the government wanted us to go ahead and play the Asia Cup.
44:37Could have been that they were thinking about the Olympics fit.
44:40Could have been they were thinking about the competition.
44:41Nikhil, you have insight on that?
44:43But I am not sure whether that…
44:45Okay.
44:46Nikhil, do you have any insight on that?
44:47No, I do not, since I do not cover politics, Gaurav.
44:52But, you know, I can only look at it at the larger picture.
44:55As I mentioned earlier as well, I don't see any immediate reason for the government to have agreed to have played this tournament.
45:01But I think they really want to put a policy in place.
45:04And that policy cannot be that flexible that it changes with every tournament.
45:07So, I think it was a clear-cut policy where they say no bilateral because bilateral is like, you know, engaging with each other.
45:14Whether it's at the, you know, trade level or Mushairas or Bollywood or even cricket for that matter.
45:19But when it comes to multilateral tournaments, you might meet them, you know, there is an SEO meet as well.
45:24You go and attend that because Pakistan is there, you don't pull out of it.
45:27I think that's the kind of outlook that the government's had.
45:29Probably that's why they've gone ahead with this tournament.
45:31Ideally, as of now, I'm very happy with the way things are.
45:36Operation Sindur.
45:37I love the manner in which India was able to decimate 11 Pakistani airbases, 6 radar stations, 9 terrorist camps.
45:46I mean, General Shukla, Sushant and I, we've talked about this so many times.
45:51Hitting Mureetke and Bahawalpur is something that they've wargamed.
45:55I have only dreamt of such stuff happening.
45:58And it's happened in our lifetime and the indication are perhaps more of that will happen in times to come.
46:04And the fact that Pakistan lost 6 fighter jets, 2 AWACS and early warning systems and a C-130 aircraft and a large number of drones.
46:15And Pakistan remains nervous.
46:17So decimating them there and decimating them on the cricket field, equally good measures.
46:22If Pakistan is panicking, if Pakistan is in trouble, it's always good news.
46:26Because a jelly state Pakistan, a Pakistan that's not strong is always good news for India.
46:32Because then they don't have an opportunity to bleed you.
46:35If they are strong, they will continue to bleed you.
46:37We'll have a debate on that perhaps another time.
46:39But General Shukla, Sushant Sari, Neeru Bhatia and Nikhil, many thanks for joining me.
46:43Prime Minister Narendra Modi's message in Bihar was very clear.
46:48He was in Purnia where he said, infiltrators will be removed.
46:52He said, this is Modi's guarantee.
46:54He slammed the Congress.
46:56He slammed the RJD.
46:57He challenged leaders who are defending the infiltrators.
47:00He said, try, come forward and save them.
47:02He also launched and inaugurated schemes worth 40,000 crore rupees, including an airport and a makhana board.
47:11Details coming up.
47:12Prime Minister Narendra Modi is turning up the heat on infiltration politics.
47:30Launching a blistering attack on the Congress and RJD in Bihar on Monday, he gave a clear message.
47:37Infiltrators must leave the country.
47:39I want to explain the people to these people.
47:46I want to explain the RGD Congress.
47:49Please hear my voice.
47:53foreign
47:59foreign
48:07foreign
48:21Modi accused the Congress and RJD of compromising Bihar's honor and identity.
48:51Sharpening the political pitch, the Prime Minister vowed that women voters will deliver a befitting
49:11reply in the upcoming polls.
49:30This attack comes right after his Assam visit, where Modi vowed he will not allow land grab
49:36by illegal immigrants.
49:38From Simanchal to Assam, the BJP is making
50:08infiltration its whole battle cry as the battle for East heats up.
50:13Bureau Report, India Today.
50:15A very disturbing story from the national capital, a senior officer in the Ministry of Finance
50:22was killed and his wife critically injured when their motorcycle was hit by a speeding BMW
50:29near Dholakuma in Delhi.
50:30The accused who was driving that BMW, a woman called Gaganpreet Kaur.
50:36She did not take them to the nearest hospital.
50:38She took them to a hospital 19 kilometers away.
50:42Why did she do that?
50:43Why did she do that?
50:44She is so far not giving any clear answers to the police.
50:47But that Deputy Secretary's mother, now she has made it very clear, had her son been taken
50:54to the nearest hospital.
50:55Maybe he could have survived.
50:57A high profile life snuffed out by speed demon in Delhi.
51:02Navjot Singh, Deputy Secretary in the Department of Economic Affairs under the Ministry of Finance, crushed to death.
51:25His wife, Sandeep Kaur, battling for her life after the bike was mowed down by a speeding
51:32BMW during the couple's post-lunch drive home.
51:37Behind the wheels of the recklessly speeding BMW was Gaganpreet Makkar, who has now been arrested.
51:44The couple on the motorcycle was mowed down by the BMW near Dholakuma.
51:49BMW was being driven by Gaganpreet and her husband, Parikshit, was in the car.
51:56The entire front portion has gone off.
52:00The BMW is a luxury car, but clearly the impact of the entire accident is visibly felt on this car.
52:09As you can see, the entire windbags opened and also the backside of the car.
52:16You can see how visibly the damage has been in this incident.
52:21I saw the car, the accident went off.
52:22I saw the car and the accident went off.
52:23I saw the car and I was sitting in the car and I was driving to the hospital.
52:28I was telling the hospital that I had to go to the hospital.
52:33The new life was telling the hospital and they told the side of the Ajatpur.
52:36The fire reveals a possible sinister plot to destroy evidence.
52:41After the crash, Navjot and Sandeep were taken by the accused to a hospital in GTB Nagar,
52:47which was 19 kilometers from the accident spot, owned by the family friend.
52:52While ignoring plea by the victim's wife to take her husband to nearby premier hospitals like Ames and Savdajang,
52:58losing crucial movements which could have saved the top bureaucrat.
53:02Navnour, I think there is one thing that everyone is saying,
53:07why are you taking so far and why are you taking so far?
53:09Yes, I do not understand that it is so far.
53:12The hospital where there is accident.
53:14There are so many great hospitals.
53:17There are 20 kilometers far away.
53:20I was in a nursing home where my mother was treating in the lobby.
53:24My father, by the time, took him to the hospital.
53:30The victim's family also claimed that Navjot's critical hurt wife, Sandeep, was kept on a stretcher for several hours before she was treated by doctors.
53:46The accused now face charge of culpable homicide, not amounting to murder.
54:09They have also been charged for destruction and concealment of evidence and rash driving.
54:16The deadly BMW crash once again highlighting the killer menace of over speeding and reckless driving on Delhi's roads.
54:41With Arvind Doja and Shriya Chatterjee, Bureau Report, India Today.
54:46The
Comments