00:00For more, let's speak with Ben Lorber, Senior Research Analyst at Political Research Associates.
00:06Thank you for speaking with us from Chicago.
00:11Hi, thanks for having me.
00:13It's the second time now where it seems as though the United States was caught off guard by Israeli
00:20action, first with the airstrikes against Iran's nuclear facilities, and now these strikes on
00:28Qatar, some mild pushback, and then Donald Trump moves on?
00:37Yeah, well, you know, it's a familiar pattern that we've seen both with President Trump and
00:43with President Biden.
00:45You know, publicly they express some chastisement.
00:48They often say, you know, that Israel has gone too far.
00:53They urge restraint.
00:54But we've yet to see, you know, a real meaningful effort to hold Israel accountable for these
01:02actions or to rein Israel in.
01:05You know, I think at the end of the day, there are very powerful forces within the U.S.
01:11that are ensuring that the Trump administration really remains in lockstep with Israel.
01:16You know, both the Christian Zionist lobby in the country and, you know, decades of staunch
01:23U.S. support for Israel and Trump's own commitment.
01:26So I don't think that's going to go away anytime soon.
01:29So it's twofold the pressure to support Israel, you're saying.
01:33Yeah, I mean, there are decades, you know, of both political parties in the U.S. who have
01:44really, you know, given unquestioning support to many Israeli administrations.
01:51And within the Trump administration, you have powerful Christian Zionists like Ambassador
01:56to Israel, Mike Huckabee, and many others, as well as groups like, you know, AIPAC and
02:02major GOP donors who are really cementing this kind of support.
02:07So, you know, that's the bedrock of the U.S.-Israel relationship right now.
02:12And that's not going away anytime soon.
02:15So both Democrats and Republicans, you say?
02:17Yes, I mean, we are seeing, you know, increasing pushback from within the Democratic, you know,
02:25camp, you know, both some progressive, you know, politicians, members of the squad, as
02:31well as up-and-coming leaders like Zoran Mamdani.
02:34And we are seeing some pushback in the Republican camp as well.
02:38I think in recent months, you have seen figures like Tucker Carlson have expressed some doubt
02:43over U.S. support of Israel, often indexing in a fair amount of xenophobia and anti-Semitism
02:49and America-first ideology.
02:51So it is fraying around the edges.
02:54And in coming decades, I do think we will see it shift.
02:57But, you know, for now, it does remain ironclad, at least at the highest levels.
03:01You talked about the U.S. ambassador to Israel, the former Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee.
03:09After those strikes in Doha, Benjamin Netanyahu attended an event in the company of Huckabee.
03:18When he's doing that, is he attending an event with Donald Trump's emissary to Jerusalem?
03:26Or is he attending an event with the Christian rights emissary to Jerusalem?
03:34I'd say the two are one and the same.
03:35I mean, you know, Mike Huckabee is a classic example of the kind of, you know, Christian
03:41evangelical supporter of Israel that has played a major role in the Christian right.
03:47You know, he has a biblical commitment to ensuring permanent Israeli annexation of the
03:53occupied West Bank.
03:55He will, you know, back whatever, you know, maximalist plans in Gaza that, you know, Trump
04:01and Netanyahu allow.
04:03And, you know, these folks have a religious commitment to a maximalist and radical right
04:08of Israeli policy.
04:09Why do they have that commitment?
04:12Yeah, there are a lot of reasons.
04:15It fits in with kind of an end times biblical theology that looks to the, you know, prophecies
04:23of the end of days in the Old and New Testaments.
04:26They also hearken back to, you know, what they call Judeo-Christian values.
04:31They say the U.S. and Israel represent the West.
04:34We are on the side of freedom and democracy.
04:38And there's a lot of Islamophobia and anti-Arab bigotry mixed in with there.
04:43A kind of, you know, clash of civilizations ideology that really is ramping up the potential
04:50for escalatory war, not only in the Middle East, but around the world.
04:53Donald Trump supporters, in that respect, they don't have a problem with Trump securing huge
05:01amounts of financing from the Gulf states who have a very rigorous interpretation of
05:07Islam?
05:10Well, I mean, I'd say Trump supporters are divided.
05:13There is a strong evangelical base, you know, around at least 50 million white American evangelicals
05:20voted for Trump in 2024, and a large percentage of those are solidly Christian Zionist.
05:27But we also are seeing some parts of Trump's base, especially the younger and more militant,
05:34you know, parts of the Make America Great Again movement, who want to end all foreign aid
05:40and who don't want the U.S. to be involved in any foreign wars in the Middle East or in Ukraine.
05:47And they do want to dial back the U.S. presence in the Middle East.
05:51So we could see that camp becoming more emboldened in coming decades.
05:56At the end of the day, Donald Trump will follow Benjamin Netanyahu's lead no matter what?
06:03I mean, I think there might be some pushback here and there.
06:09It remains to be seen.
06:10He is quite impulsive.
06:12As you said, he does want to secure, you know, other allies among the Gulf states.
06:17There are some voices in the Pentagon who advocate more restraint.
06:23It remains to be seen.
06:24But I'd say that just as much as Trump follows Netanyahu's lead, you know, Bibi and the radical
06:33right Israeli government, you know, couldn't do what they're doing without the constant
06:38diplomatic, you know, cover and support, you know, given by the U.S.
06:44So it's also the case that, you know, Bibi often has to follow Trump's lead.
06:48Really, they're working, you know, together a lot of the time, I'd say.
06:52Ben Lorber, so many thanks for joining us from Chicago.
06:56Yeah, thanks for having me.
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