- 1 year ago
"I just wonder if Josh was Vrabel's first choice" Do you agree with Wiggy ?
Do we now have more clarity on the Belichick/Foxboro fiasco?
Do we now have more clarity on the Belichick/Foxboro fiasco?
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00:00So, because you brought up the Caleb Williams,
00:03and then I was going to say the Josh McDaniels, Mike Vrabel situation,
00:07we've never really dived into that where how much,
00:12and I know Shyam is not sold on Josh McDaniels,
00:16but how much of Mike Vrabel's decision was it to bring in Josh McDaniel?
00:22Oh, I don't know that I've ever, I'm sure he had some sort of a say in it.
00:28Are you suggesting he didn't have final say?
00:31I'm not saying he didn't have final say, but I feel like, you know,
00:35the connection of Josh and Vrabel, because Vrabel, when he was other places,
00:39he had his own offensive guy, and then I thought there was a report,
00:44and this was so long ago, that maybe Robert Kraft was like,
00:48hey, what about Josh McDaniels?
00:50Mr. Josh McDaniels.
00:52I'm sure Vrabel had final say, though, on who his guy was going to be.
00:55I just think that with-
00:57That guy beat you.
00:59Sorry.
01:00Just between the Elliott Wolfe stuff that we already talked about,
01:03I'm sure that that was something that Mike Vrabel said, you know,
01:06yeah, we can talk about different guys that you want to bring in,
01:09but he got final say.
01:10Which is his decision.
01:11You think that, like, that was Vrabel's first choice of-
01:15Because Todd Downing, who's the wide receiver coach,
01:18was the offensive coordinator for Vrabel at a point in time in Tennessee.
01:23So, and I know Scheim isn't the biggest Josh McDaniels fan,
01:28and I wonder because of-
01:30Well, Scheim is down on the entire organization other than Drake May.
01:36No, I'm not entirely down on Mike Vrabel.
01:38I think he made some mistakes, but I think Josh McDaniels is far more the culprit.
01:42You are pointing fingers everywhere other than at the quarterback.
01:47No, I just think Josh McDaniels stinks.
01:50Because it's kind of like-
01:51It's similar to Metallica.
01:52And the only reason why-
01:52I'm not saying it's a complete similarity to Mayo and Alex Van Pelt's situation.
01:58I just wonder if Josh was Vrabel's first choice,
02:05or if Kraft said, hey, here's a way for us to save some money,
02:08you know, you might want to give Josh an interview.
02:10Can I be Papelbon for Wiggy's lead?
02:12Go ahead.
02:13Close it up.
02:13So, do you believe, anybody, that Mike Vrabel wants Elliot Wolfe and Matt Groh to still be here?
02:21No.
02:21No.
02:22So, if he didn't get to choose the guys that are picking the players with him,
02:26wouldn't it stand to reason he may not have chosen the guy that was the offensive coordinator,
02:30given McDaniels' relationship with the Krafts?
02:32Curtis, that's a great point.
02:33That is a great point.
02:34I just would also say maybe that was the give and take.
02:37Like, he didn't have say there, so he had say underneath who was coaching under him.
02:41That was a great pivot.
02:42And I would say that that would be why Downing is the wide receiver's coach.
02:46And isn't it interesting, if we consider all the factors now,
02:49who was the source talking to Tom Curran about digs that led to all that stuff?
02:55It was the wide receiver coach Downing that was quoted.
02:58So, I don't know.
02:59I mean, that's obviously...
03:00Becoming a bit of a pain in the posterior.
03:02Who knows?
03:03But, yeah, if the organization has shown its desire to keep two totally incompetent people
03:09as the roster builders, then I would totally believe it if they did that with Josh and Braybill.
03:14Speaking of great pivots, and I'm sure we'll get to this later,
03:17the one yesterday by those associated with Bill Belichick was one of the all-time great fraudulent attempts at pivoting.
03:26It's like Kevin McHale in The Post.
03:29That was a great pivot.
03:31Where a source close to Bill said that he didn't mean physically welcome at Gillette Stadium.
03:40He meant mentally, emotionally welcome.
03:44It was like a metaphor for the disrespect that he's been given.
03:49It's like, okay.
03:51I mean, could you be clearer when you're making things up, Bill?
03:55If you could be clearer about what you're making them up about, it would be great.
03:59It goes back to maybe what you said yesterday to maybe the Bill of, I'm not welcome,
04:08they're not welcome here because I'm not welcome there, of maybe Kraft did throw a little bad juju
04:15on Bill's opportunity to coach in Atlanta.
04:18Or anywhere.
04:19Or anywhere.
04:20And Bill has just basically went nuclear petty and said, you know what?
04:25You made the dynasty.
04:27I believe you probably put the kibosh on me getting other opportunities as a head coach.
04:32That was so long ago now.
04:34But it doesn't matter.
04:35Bill holds a grudge, man.
04:36When you get old, Courtney...
04:37But he already, he came back.
04:39Like, that's what I don't understand.
04:40He came for Brady night at Gillette.
04:41It was for Brady.
04:42I understand, but it still was a good look for Kraft.
04:44Yeah, but it doesn't matter.
04:46It's for Brady, though.
04:46It's like, when you get that old, old people, when they hold grudges, they take them to their grave.
04:50They don't care if it's against their brother, their sister, their kids.
04:55They're taking them to their grave.
04:56It's going to go on forever!
04:59That night, interesting information I came across.
05:04They had a table for Bill Belichick.
05:06Just like Wiggy and everybody, they all had a setup so that when Randy Moss thanked Bill
05:11or other players thanked Bill, they could show him.
05:13He literally stayed behind the stage the entire night, spoke, and then exited.
05:20He never sat down.
05:22He never told anybody if he was coming or not.
05:24Right.
05:25Because he wanted to act like he wasn't invited, even though they invited him 30 times to go
05:29to Tom Brady night.
05:31Bill Belichick is...
05:32Did he have his pants on?
05:33No.
05:34Okay.
05:34Winnie the Pooh.
05:35Nice job.
05:36Nice job.
05:36It's just so fascinating to see how this is unraveling around him.
05:42But yeah, he's been invited back.
05:44I don't know what in the world that was all about.
05:46And next year, Wiggy will be invited, along with Bill Belichick, as the organization celebrates
05:5225 years since the greatest upset in the history of the NFL, when they honor the Super
05:57Bowl 36 team from the 2001 team.
05:59Okay.
05:59Okay.
06:00I'm looking forward to that.
06:01He is invited, he's been invited, and he is full of poop.
06:05And he probably doesn't show up for that.
06:08The statue thing was probably now, as we start to peel back layers to this onion, the statue
06:13thing that Robert Kraft said was probably just lip service to make himself, you know, like,
06:18all right, you know, we had always planned that.
06:20But do you really think Bill is coming back here for a statue?
06:23I don't think he's coming back here for anything.
06:25I really don't.
06:26I don't even know about him.
06:27I mean, he'll get a red coat, but I mean, maybe.
06:32I don't know.
06:32Well, the red coats are coming, but Belichick isn't.
06:34I don't know that he will come back for that.
06:37Curtis, clearly you have a very good source when it comes to the information you just
06:43brought up.
06:43Did they say anything about the Brady statue unveiling and if he was invited for that?
06:48He was welcome there.
06:50He was never told he was not invited.
06:52I don't know.
06:52I don't think they sent out invitations in the mail.
06:55I don't know.
06:55I don't know that specifically, but the person was laughing.
07:00They gave him the wrong location.
07:02They did an e-vite.
07:03They're being cheap, but I don't know if he opened the envelope online.
07:06They told him it was City Hall Plaza.
07:07Yeah, that's fair.
07:09Unfortunately, Jordan drove him there and it was a whole thing.
07:12They just sent us.
07:13And it was too late.
07:14Jordan couldn't rent a car, Greg.
07:17Once they got to City Hall Plaza, nobody else was there.
07:19And so it was too late to go to Foxborough.
07:22That's what created the whole thing.
07:23But they did reach out to us like, hey, are you coming to Brady night, statue unveiling?
07:27Yeah.
07:28So, I mean, if they reached out to me, I would think that they reached out to Bill.
07:31They reached out to everybody.
07:32Yeah.
07:32And then I don't know how that specifically is done.
07:35But it was like through an email, maybe a text message or something.
07:38Bill has this desire to either be the hero or the victim.
07:41All right.
07:41Well, mistake to bring him in.
07:44Yes, it was.
07:44When you drafted a quarterback who at the top of the list of his talents in college was running the football and his ability to do that.
07:54So, I mean, Curtis, we talked about it briefly yesterday on the show.
07:59And then the New York Post yesterday, front page of the website, had a big article, which the headline read, Panic Sets In Over Drake May.
08:13Really?
08:14I think there are a considerable amount of those who listen to the show and that I hear from who are now concerned.
08:24And it's one weekend.
08:25I told you.
08:26Please.
08:27But are now concerned that he is not the guy.
08:29And I think the quarterback's an absolute stud.
08:31Rough weekend for Costos.
08:34Big Chiefs pick.
08:35Oh, Josh Allen loves them.
08:36Are we going to hear from Josh Allen during they said it?
08:38Yeah, definitely, Greg.
08:39All right.
08:40Next hour.
08:41The concern is pretty much simple.
08:43Like, he looked really bad on Sunday.
08:48And it may just be week one.
08:50Listen, great Patriots Super Bowl winning teams have had bad week ones.
08:54But given the opponent, given it's at home, you've got the West Coast team coming east for the one o'clock start.
09:01You have the lead at halftime.
09:03And that interception to start the second half.
09:05And then, I don't know about you guys.
09:07Did you feel at any point in that late third, fourth quarter that they were going to come back and win that game, even if it was only a one or two score game?
09:14I thought that they could.
09:15I did.
09:16It was such a boring football game that I kind of thought anything could happen.
09:20Yes.
09:20So, I did not.
09:22In the stadium, it was dead as a doornail.
09:24It was like, you might as well have been watching BC against, you know, Fordham.
09:30But it didn't feel like the Raiders controlled the game.
09:32It felt like, okay, either team could win.
09:35It felt like that New England, if they could just do some things offensively, that they could pull this game out.
09:42And near the end of the game, I thought that Drake May picked up speed when it was calling plays, getting guys going.
09:47Like, it seemed like he was more urgent than he was at the beginning of the game.
09:52So, I thought that they could have come back.
09:54At least, once we were in the fourth, I was like, it was anyone's game.
09:58Like, the moment I knew it was over was when Geno converted that third and 20.
10:02Till that point, though, I very much believed that the Patriots were in that game.
10:06Yep.
10:06That was the dagger.
10:07It just looked like, I felt like throughout that game, once Brock Bowers got hurt, I felt like, okay, Oakland, excuse me, Oakland, Vegas, their biggest playmakers out.
10:21This is a great opportunity for you to capitalize.
10:24But then it just, the offense, it just, there's something, there's no explosiveness to it anywhere.
10:31And that's where I was like, somebody do something special in, whether it's Drake May taking off and scrambling and running for 20 yards.
10:39I just felt like there wasn't anything offensively, but I still felt like they could win this football game.
10:44Now, I will say, I give him a bit of a pass because he is, he's working with a new offensive coordinator and learning an entire new system.
10:56And so that was, that was an absolute train wreck of a disaster last season.
11:02And so you, you know, better than me, but it takes a while and you can complain about Mike Vrabel, not giving him enough reps during preseason.
11:14And I will, I'll jump on board with that, but it's going to, it's got to take a while for him to get that system.
11:21In that, in that thought vein though, Greg, like why didn't he play more in the preseason?
11:26I don't know.
11:26Like you are learning a new offense.
11:28That's a massive, massive misstep by the coaching staff to not have played him more in the preseason.
11:33And if you were only worried about him getting hurt, like then what, what's the point?
11:37But Curtis asked Mike Vrabel about that very thing on this very show yesterday.
11:41And he said, you know, we've had 30 practices and we've been out.
11:45I mean, in his mind, he's given everybody enough of an opportunity.
11:49But Wiggy tells us all the time, game reps are so, so different than practice reps.
11:53Like they're totally different things.
11:56And so the fact that he didn't even get at least like simulated games, preseason games aren't even real games, but at least simulated game reps.
12:02He didn't, he got what, 14 total?
12:05Like that's just not enough.
12:06It would be one thing if he was awesome.
12:09If he got two series a game in the two preseason games and they put up 10 points each game on those series, then you say, okay.
12:16But they did nothing.
12:17I mean, yeah, he really didn't do much, even when he was in pick when he was in there.
12:22And it does.
12:23I think the biggest thing when learning a new offense, more so from the quarterback position, it does take time.
12:30But we see guys get it all the time.
12:32I think the biggest thing is the relationship between the offensive coordinator and the quarterback on how the system is going to be ran.
12:42And what's the offensive philosophy because of your quarterback?
12:45What is his skill set?
12:46What does he do well?
12:48You know, and Josh McDaniels, other than maybe, and that's stretching it, Jay Cutler, has he really ever had like a mobile quarterback?
12:58He coached Tebow, didn't he?
13:05Yeah, but was Tebow really like...
13:09Oh, yeah, that's right.
13:10Did he draft Tebow?
13:12Yeah, I believe so.
13:13Oh, yeah.
13:13Okay, so...
13:13I'll double check that.
13:14All right.
13:15And Tebow's a disciple.
13:16He was running the Lord's ball.
13:17Yeah, but it just seems like...
13:20Technically, Josh McDaniels only coached him for 12 games, but yes.
13:25Here's a 978 text on the Subaru of New England text line.
13:29Why are you guys not talking about the defense?
13:31We did yesterday a lot.
13:33Getting smoked on plays, playing too much zone.
13:37That being said, it's week one.
13:39Yeah, we talked about...
13:41We talked yesterday a lot about the lack of adjustment at halftime when it came to the D.
13:46The defense wasn't great, but we used to sit here and praise Bill Belichick's defense
13:51for bending and not breaking.
13:54So if Geno...
13:55And I heard Jones and Keith talking about this yesterday.
13:58So if Geno Smith...
13:59Yeah, does he throw the ball all over the place?
14:01He did.
14:01But you only gave up 20 points.
14:04They only gave up one touchdown in the second half.
14:06Right, so I don't mind...
14:07Listen, I want them to fix that issue of the quarterback throwing for a bunch of yards.
14:12But remember the quarterbacks that came in here years ago?
14:15So was it Mike Flynn one time...
14:17Was it Flynn from...
14:18Matt Flynn.
14:19Matt Flynn.
14:20You throw a bunch of yards and we used to say, hey, once you get inside the 20s, it's
14:25a different game.
14:27You bend but don't break.
14:28And that's what the defenses used to do in the past about giving up points.
14:32And I feel like there are so many numbers that have come out that are just disgraceful
14:36as it pertains to the Patriots' last several years.
14:39But one of them stood out.
14:41The Patriots have now failed to reach 30 points in 46 consecutive games.
14:49The last time they scored 30 points was on October 16th, 2022 against the Browns.
14:57It's by far the longest streak in the NFL.
15:01You can't win.
15:02It's an example of organizational hubris where you had Tom Brady, the greatest to ever do
15:07it, and you didn't give full credit to him.
15:11You somehow believed that your organization was the reason why you had so much success.
15:18And so therefore you could do it with whoever it was, whoever you were going to have.
15:23Well, I think that's part of the reason, too, that they've had such a difficult time finding
15:27another quarterback.
15:28They don't know how to properly nurture a young quarterback.
15:32They just throw them in and they're like, yeah, we're the Patriots.
15:34We'll figure it out.
15:35They'll just get better.
15:36And when you actually have to teach these guys and train these guys to go from the college
15:41game to the NFL game, because they are very different.
15:43And last year, the Detroit Lions were top seven in defense, allowing 20 points a game.
15:50So when you look at that game, and yeah, there are some issues on the defense, and we used
15:55to say this all the time, oh, if you can hold a team to 21 points or less, you should be
16:01able to win that football game.
16:03So I do put some on the defense, but it's really about your offense.
16:07And we kind of went into that, we went into the season thinking that, like, all right,
16:12the defense should be good.
16:13We had them, whether top 10, top five, they should be good.
16:16But what's the offense 207 text from my adopted home continent domain, Greg Baker Mayfield
16:23has had a different coordinator every year of his career.
16:26So no excuse.
16:27Yeah, that is true.
16:28Yeah.
16:28But Baker was like good for a year, terrible for three years, and then got good again
16:32because he understands how to play in the NFL now being a six or seven year veteran.
16:37But here's where the, I think we all agree.
16:39If you want to say the new coordinator is a problem, that's a perfectly logical, you know,
16:44excuse.
16:45However, if that is what your issue is, you cannot then only play him in four series in
16:51the entire preseason.
16:52Correct.
16:52I agree.
16:53So it's like you sit here and how it's so enraging to be living the spin cycle of what
17:01the other division opponents did with the Patriots for 20 years, where you take a quarterback
17:06in the top 15, three years later, you're back in the top five and you're taking a quarterback
17:12and then you're firing the coach, then you're firing the coordinator.
17:14This is literally the Jets and the Dolphins for 25 years.
17:18And that's where you are now.
17:20So the frustration with May is that if it's not him, you are back to the bottom of the
17:25mountain all over again.
17:27And you restart this clock.
17:28Back to page one.
17:31Mm-hmm.
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