00:00Hello and welcome to this special edition of the 77% Street Debate.
00:11This is a collaboration between DW and Trust TV.
00:15And we're coming to you from Gherki International Market here in the heart of Abuja, Nigeria's capital.
00:21The big question is, hustling for women in Nigeria, what is holding us back?
00:27And of course, I'll be co-piloting the conversation with the magnificent Edith Kimani.
00:32Thank you so much, Abdullahi.
00:33It's estimated stating that nearly 40 women, rather 40% of businesses here in Nigeria are owned by women,
00:39particularly small, medium and micro businesses.
00:42But what about big business? Are women participating there?
00:45Who better to ask than some women?
00:48And I'm so glad to have a panel that is full of women today.
00:51And I want to start with you, Zainab.
00:53Perhaps you can explain to us what the situation in Nigeria is.
00:56Would you say that women are dominant in the business market?
01:00Women are really trying in the business market.
01:02And I think we are trying to be more than the men now.
01:06And I hope we'll be better.
01:08So the question that we've asked at the top of this debate is, are women being held back?
01:13Would you say that's an accurate assumption?
01:16Yes, from religion aspect, from cultural diversity, from funding.
01:22All right.
01:22So we'll come to those reasons in just a short while.
01:24But I want to speak to Saadatu for a second here.
01:27As an IT specialist, you are in an industry that is growing leaps and bounds.
01:32Are you seeing women participation in that, particularly in the North, as Zainab mentioned?
01:36Actually, I would say no.
01:38It's growing, but really not.
01:40I think it's not favorable.
01:42I think it's not what we want.
01:43So give me an example of like an average day for you at the office.
01:47What's the percentage of women in your industry in the North?
01:50Maybe 40 percent.
01:51Yeah, the numbers don't look so good.
01:53So let's ask the economist in the building here, Dr. Delindo.
01:55How would you categorize the participation of women in the market, in the whole of Nigeria, but particularly in the North?
02:01They take up almost 30 to 40 percent of the total business environment in Nigeria, depending on the statistics you find.
02:09So I think that's a lion's share.
02:10So you think they're doing really well?
02:12Yes, they are doing well.
02:13I don't really see the business environment being friendly for both genders.
02:19The problems are not gender specific.
02:22Yes, women have some cultural issues in terms of Northern Nigeria or some religious barriers that prevents them from excelling.
02:29All right.
02:30Let me ask Umita, who's the entrepreneur on the panel.
02:32So we're hearing that the business environment is terrible for everyone and it's not particularly gendered.
02:37Would you agree with this?
02:38Yes, I agree.
02:39I think it's the economy in Nigeria.
02:41This year, it's just a bit slow for everyone.
02:44And so why do you think that women are not able to break the barrier from the small, medium and micro businesses into being the owners of industry?
02:52Because men have already monopolized the whole system.
02:55They try to gatekeep so that it's hard for the women to penetrate.
02:59All right.
02:59Awal, what is your personal view on this?
03:01Do you think that women should be out there in the business market trying to fend for themselves, making an earning?
03:07Women should stay at home and cater for their own children.
03:12Yes.
03:13Let me ask Fatima here because you laughed when he said that he believes women should be at home.
03:18So you find this hilarious and yet it's a reality.
03:20Actually, it's what is happening.
03:21Let me say we women, we don't have freedom, especially from the north because when they said when you go out there, you are not safe.
03:28They can't let their wife to go out there because it's unsafe for them.
03:31They feel insecure with their wife being exposed to other men.
03:34Okay.
03:34So let me ask Awal, are you insecure about women becoming experts in their own field?
03:40No, I'm not.
03:41But protection, their protection is primary.
03:45Okay.
03:46Let me speak to Ahmed who's a strategist and you work with women, you mentor them.
03:50So in some ways, you are the antithesis of what Awal here is saying.
03:55What do you feel about that?
03:56Because you're also a northern man.
03:57First of all, when we are talking about women in business, for example, looking at what I do here personally, is that we create a platform which a lot of businesses actually showcase their brand.
04:07But surprisingly, 85% of the participants are women.
04:10And then these women are killing it out there.
04:12I want to ask Zainab here for a second because you're pretty successful in your business.
04:16Do you feel like you have to down yourself so that you don't become too successful for the men in your life?
04:21As a woman, you can't be too successful.
04:24I think a man will be threatened, especially if he's your spouse.
04:27So is this a strategy that you're actively employing in your life?
04:30Yes, I am.
04:31You have to dim your light to shine brighter.
04:34Okay.
04:35Umita, do you have to shine bright like a diamond or do you dim yourself a little bit so that your spouse, your partner, your father shines brighter than you?
04:44So honestly, I don't have to because even if, for example, I tell my husband that I have a project, say, in the South, honestly, being the rebel that I am, I would want to go.
04:53So in a way, I don't dim my light, but I bring him on so that he thinks it's his idea to let me go.
04:58So, doctor, we're hearing different strategies being employed by women just so that they can participate in the open market.
05:05But what is the business case for that?
05:07What happens when women are not allowed to fully participate to their full potential?
05:12What is Nigeria losing?
05:14Nigeria is losing a lot.
05:16So not allowing them to fully participate is an economic downturn for the country.
05:20It has the capacity to improve global GDP by $12 trillion.
05:24Wow.
05:25So that is $12 trillion of untapped potential.
05:28Okay.
05:29Now, I understand that Abdullahi is waiting in the wings to come and sneak in.
05:33But before he does, Zainab, you mentioned financing gaps, which Dr. Jalindo here has mentioned.
05:39How tough is it to get formal credit as a woman?
05:41I think it's very tough.
05:42We have that gap and we need to close it.
05:45But I'm wondering, Dr. Jalindo, when the government is working so hard to create equality, is there more that can be done?
05:52Policy support for women entrepreneurs, access to financing in terms of legal protection for women businesses
06:00and in terms of general business environment that will cater for the needs of the women.
06:07Okay.
06:07So, Abdullahi, we're hearing a lot of things, but I do wonder because there are women who also want to be taken care of.
06:14I wonder what the people you're speaking to think about that.
06:17Yeah, interesting.
06:18I think a lot of people were scratching their heads with regards to the choice of words.
06:22Allow and support.
06:24Some people think, you know, there's no conversation about allowing women.
06:28It's more or less like supporting women to get the job done.
06:31But we're in the solution phase here, right?
06:33So, I would like to get your takes on what you think can make life easier for women in business in Nigeria.
06:42Women should just be allowed to do what they want to do without restriction.
06:46What could make things easier for you?
06:48Everybody around you should give you support.
06:51And who doesn't like to be taken care of?
06:53Right.
06:53What about the government?
06:56What about the society?
06:57What can they do to make you feel, you know, supported?
07:00I feel the society especially needs to start accepting that women are also capable of doing things that men are capable of doing.
07:07Men should also be okay with women dominating in the male-dominated fields like mine, Kapinchi.
07:13Well, if you ask Awal, he'll say that there's absolutely no problem at the moment with the way things are.
07:18But I just want to ask you, Dr. Jalindo, is there anything that can be done to flatten this line?
07:23What we need to do is to provide equal opportunities for both men and women.
07:27Making sure that you target a specific group of vulnerable women and have financing ready for them.
07:34Secondly, having programs that will improve literacy education is also key.
07:38Most importantly is mentorship.
07:40I love that.
07:41And Saada is actually already doing that, participating in the fourth industrial revolution in IT, mentoring women.
07:47What other solutions do you have for us?
07:49That the women be role models.
07:50Because in a society where the men, you know, they have these trust issues and whatnot,
07:56so I believe that whatever you're going to do as a person that starts, you should do it well.
08:01So that other men also will see and realize, okay, this is good for my wife, for my sister.
08:06And then secondly, technology also.
08:08Because there are a lot of solutions, I believe, that only women that are into technology that cannot be able to actually, you know, tackle that particular part.
08:15Yeah.
08:15I like that.
08:16I started this debate with Zaina, but I'd like to close with you.
08:19What should women do to stay empowered, to become empowered?
08:22I think mentoring.
08:24And that's why I started my podcast, Rise with Zerios, where I bring a lot of established entrepreneurs to see their stories, their challenges,
08:32so that the ones coming up will learn from them and will grow.
08:35Well, I dare not get any other comments after that beautiful close.
08:39Zaina Abdullahi, where are you?
08:40Let's close this debate.
08:41What are your final thoughts?
08:43Interesting takes, obviously.
08:45But I also think that at the heart of the problem is the fact that the scale of the problem is simply greater than the scale of the solution.
08:52But times are changing.
08:53Whatever you think about northern women or women, generally speaking, if we unlock that potential, the economy is going to look much different.
09:00Greatly put.
09:01We asked a very simple question at the beginning of this debate.
09:03What's holding women back?
09:05A lot of these women said men, but there are other multilayered issues, but they also have the solutions of how we can go around this.
09:12Thank you so much for being a part of this debate and watching us.
09:15Bye-bye.
09:16Bye-bye.
Comments