- 1 year ago
If a woman brings home a bigger paycheck, does that make her man any less of a man? In our latest Street Debate, host Edith Kimani joins young Nigerians in a candid conversation about money, masculinity, and relationships. From shifting gender roles to the pressure on men to ‘provide,’ they share raw opinions, personal stories, and surprising perspectives.
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00:00Hello and welcome back to the 77% Street Debate. This week we are back in the home of the ogre, the boss, the big man.
00:07Of course I'm talking about Lagos, Nigeria. And here in the city where everything is done big, so is masculinity.
00:15And so tied is this idea of masculinity and money that expressions like man must hustle are very common here.
00:20But today we are asking, what happens if the Mrs. Ogre is making more money than the ogre?
00:25When she's earning more, is he still a man? Who better to answer this question for me than some fellow Legotians, as they're called here.
00:34And I want to start with you, Evans, because I know you have a very interesting perspective on this.
00:39So do you believe that money maketh the man? Yes, money does maketh the man.
00:43Okay, let's talk a little bit about that. What does it mean then about poor men? Are they not men?
00:48Well, poor men are still men, but in terms of society standards, poor men are lesser men than richer men.
00:54Oh, poor men are lesser men than richer men. Okay, so describe to me what a man is.
00:58For you, what are the characteristics that one must espouse to be called a man's man?
01:03For a man to be called a man, you should be able to provide a certain level of security, not just for yourself, but for the people around you.
01:10Let me put you on the spot then. Are you doing that? Are you the man's man that you're describing?
01:14Yes, I am. I'm the only man in my family, so yes.
01:17So we'll come to the pressures of the family in just a short while, but let me hear from Uche, because I know that you also have a similar perspective.
01:23You're laughing because you know what I'm about to ask. Does money maketh a man?
01:27In some sense, yes. As a man, you need to do certain things. You need to be able to provide. You need to be able to protect your family.
01:33And even down to care, if you don't have money, you can't really express care.
01:37It's going to seem like you're just doing plenty talk if you can actually show some workings.
01:41Amara, let me come to you. At just 17, you're the youngest by far here, and yet your ideas and philosophies around this subject are very traditional, one might say.
01:51Yes, they are traditional in the sense of we are talking about what we see happening around us.
01:56There is still that sense of, and the culture and the shadowing of things like bride pricing and people coming and saying,
02:02oh, my child will be well off when they're finally married off, or they finally get a husband and that type of thing.
02:07That's when I can rest. And I think it's still that thing of, it is still in our society today where we understand that to have a relationship and to have a marriage,
02:16there needs to be that care and provision that comes from one to the other.
02:20But that doesn't mean I agree that that is how it should go.
02:22It is just what exists in today's society, that the man is seen as the caregiver, the breadwinner of the family, the man of the home.
02:30They are the ones that provide for the family.
02:31And if the woman then makes more, it unsettles that balance, sort of, because then how is he still the man if he's not the one providing?
02:39Is she the man? That type of question.
02:41Okay, so for you, much like Evans and Uche, manhood is about provision, it's about protection, and provision has to be financial.
02:47Yes, but that's sadly what should not be the case, because we are modernizing, so men should not be defined by wealth.
02:54But sadly, they still are.
02:55Aisha, we're talking about a culture, a society that you're also a part of, but you hold a very different view from this.
03:01Tell me what you think about this.
03:03He's still the man, in my opinion, because it shouldn't just be about provision.
03:08It shouldn't just be about money.
03:10What if he doesn't have a job?
03:13It should be about the other things he brings.
03:17Protection, support, emotional stability, and so on.
03:21But we've heard here from Evans that in order for you to provide those things like support, like protection, you need to have money.
03:27What do you say about that?
03:28So in this situation, she's earning.
03:30She's not poor.
03:33She's just earning more than him.
03:35So I believe he's also providing, just not to the scale where the woman is providing.
03:41So it shouldn't take you away from the man.
03:44All right, let me ask you some.
03:45Are you going to be okay dating somebody who earns less than you?
03:49Will you respect him in the household if he's making less?
03:51Yes, I will.
03:52If masculinity is defined by how much you make, then billionaires should be called what?
03:58Kings?
03:58They are still men.
03:59Do you understand?
04:00They are still masculine.
04:01So masculinity doesn't define the level of their finance.
04:05Or if he earns less than his family, I know.
04:09He still has the X and Y chromosomes.
04:11So scientifically, he's still a man.
04:12As long as Nigeria is concerned, being rich, being a billionaire makes you king.
04:17A poor man, obviously you will save a dog before you save a poor man.
04:20You'll save, sorry for that.
04:22I wasn't ready for that.
04:26You'd rather save a dog than a poor man.
04:28That's society we live in.
04:29Wow.
04:30That's society we live in.
04:31Wow.
04:31Okay.
04:32So this society that has so much pressure, where did these ideas come from?
04:37Let me actually ask a sociologist here, Ebenezer.
04:40These ideas don't just sprout out of thin air, right?
04:43So when did Nigerians start to form these beliefs?
04:46Actually, it's not a Nigerian mentality because it's a general mentality.
04:51The first thing is survivor of the fittest.
04:53Every human being, either male or female, the first thing you are looking at is how to survive.
04:58So this differentiation now comes to what is the level of security I can build around me.
05:04But where we now got it wrong is when we now start seeing relationship as a term of two persons
05:09rather than two people coming together to form one.
05:14So when you are coming together to form one, you are not actually competing with yourself.
05:18But rather, you are now a team.
05:19It does not matter who brings what.
05:21What is important is it is available.
05:24We are surviving.
05:26We are scaling.
05:26And we are not the way we were yesterday.
05:28With every definition of the man, there is the other half that we have been talking about, the woman.
05:33And in our society, it is still very ingrained that the woman is the carer of the household.
05:38And so if the woman then is making more money, are they still expected to care and cook for the household as the woman?
05:45No, they are expected to be the breadwinners to go to work, not to care for the children, for the household.
05:50In our society today, sometimes men stay at home and instead of going to work, they care for the children and they care for the household.
05:57And that is okay.
05:58But that definition of the man, the breadwinner, as you have said in the beginning of this video, the ogre, the one who is providing for the family, they are the man.
06:07And so the woman, in that sense, if they are making more than the man, is the breadwinner and the man is the man.
06:13So normally at this point of the debate, I'm asking for solutions.
06:16But as I don't know if there's a problem, there's just different ways of doing things.
06:21Let me get some closing views.
06:22I would just like to close on this note that when you are either in a relationship or in a marriage, don't be a man.
06:29Be a boyfriend or be an husband.
06:32Don't be a man.
06:33You are a man against the world, not in your family.
06:36We have to understand that culturally in Nigeria, throughout time where we are right now in Lagos, the people come into relationship because of money, because of provision,
06:45because of culturally the man provides in the household and the woman come together and care for the home.
06:50Because in Lagos, we are more developed and other parts of Nigeria, they don't have that same benefits.
06:55Now, looking at in the home base, we have to understand that as long as you're not rooted in your own identity as a person and you don't come together for love,
07:03if someone earns more than you, you will feel less than if you know that you came to that relationship to provide.
07:09If you came to that relationship because you love, you would help each other up, pull each other up different income buckets and work together to make a good life for yourself.
07:17So, at the end of the day, you have to be rooted in your masculinity and as a female, you have to be rooted in your identity to work together as one.
07:24Okay, let me hear from boyfriend, husband, man.
07:28I'm sorry, I want to digress a bit.
07:31But, like, see the way you...
07:32But, give me your...
07:33Yeah, I'm giving my closer.
07:34See the way you subtly agreed that not having money as a man makes you feel less of yourself by saying, oh, if you do earn more than your husband,
07:44we're talking about emotions now, whether you earn less or you earn more.
07:49No, I'm not supporting you.
07:50I'm trying to tell you, but then, but then, but then, yeah, being insecure is as a person, like you said.
07:57It's a personal thing.
07:58The idea of the man is a personal thing.
08:01Like me, I said now, okay, I don't feel insecure about my woman's money.
08:04But then, if I'm in a situation where I can't provide for my loved ones, I am depressed.
08:08Okay, let me find out what, because this is now a group activity, what your group members have to say.
08:14I really liked what he said about when you come to your home, you're a husband and you are a boyfriend or whatever you are.
08:19But the idea of the man in society today still sadly is rooted in the fact of provision, still rooted in the fact of care.
08:27And you have, and the way that does that in a big, big way is through financial means.
08:31So, if you don't have that means or someone else has it more than you, then you're not allowed to show that or show it in a dominant sphere.
08:38But when you come to the home, be the husband, be the boyfriend.
08:41So, I support that.
08:42But still, the idea of the man, which we should redefine, by the way, is financial provision.
08:47Uche.
08:48Once you are in a relationship, you guys should be partners and not individuals.
08:53You shouldn't stand as individuals, you should come together as partners.
08:56So, in some sense, obviously, if it's any more than you, you should definitely step up in the house and all of that.
09:02But as a man, I still feel that you need to understand, like yourself, you need to understand your partner as well.
09:09You need to be able to step in to protect, to provide, to assist in the home and all of that.
09:14So, I feel just coming together as a partnership would help a lot.
09:18So, at the beginning of this debate, we asked what happens if Mrs. Ogre earns more than the Ogre.
09:23Well, the thoughts were very diverse.
09:26But at the bottom of it, it has become very clear that provision and protection are two fundamental things that are expected from men.
09:34How exactly they go about it?
09:36Well, you better ask these two groups behind me.
09:38I'm Edith Kimani.
09:39This was so much fun.
09:42Bye-bye.
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