During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in July, Sen. Steve Daines (R-MT) asked Daniel B. Shapiro, Former U.S. Ambassador to Israel and Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East, about Iran's space program.
00:04A few weeks ago, I made a swing through the caucuses.
00:07This is a question for Ambassador Shapiro.
00:10I had the privilege to meet with President Aliyev.
00:13We had a very productive conversation.
00:15I think one of the under-told stories of what's happening certainly in that region of the world
00:19is what they've done to support Israel in terms of energy resources.
00:23I also had a chance to meet with the Israeli ambassador to Azerbaijan, Ambassador George Deke.
00:30It was a unique opportunity to explore the long-standing diplomatic ties between Azerbaijan and Israel,
00:37a relationship that only looks to grow stronger with the announcement of the SOCAR oil deal,
00:43which I think is going to help diversify the Israeli energy opportunities.
00:48Ambassador Shapiro, do you believe that Azerbaijan's relationship with Israel,
00:52which I think is an under-told story, might stand as an opportunity for other Islamic nations
00:57to expand diplomatic ties and work to normalize relations?
01:02Thank you, Senator. I do.
01:04I think this relationship, as you said, is sort of under-appreciated.
01:07Sometimes people would say, how can we expand the Abraham Accords, maybe Azerbaijan?
01:11Azerbaijan has had diplomatic relations with Israel for many years,
01:14but it's one of the leading Muslim countries that has done that long before the Abraham Accords came on the scene.
01:20And because of their proximity to the region and even to the threats Israel faces from Iran,
01:27they've been a security partner because of their energy resources.
01:30They're an energy partner because of their Muslim population.
01:36And I might add with that, it's the only country in the world that borders Russia and Iran.
01:41Very strategic.
01:42Their strategic importance is really impossible to deny, but they also have that sort of cultural convening capability
01:49and able to build bridges to strengthen Israel's relations with other Arab and Muslim countries,
01:55including some in South Asia or Central Asia, which probably have relations,
02:00but not as deep and as rich as Azerbaijan's.
02:03But as we've thought about ways of broadening those regional convenings
02:08to really have the sense of a European Union or an ASEAN-style organization
02:14or gathering of countries in the Middle East,
02:16Azerbaijan most certainly should take part in something like that.
02:18I think Brzezinski described Central Asia as the wine bottle and Azerbaijan as the cork.
02:24It becomes a very important part of that east-west type corridor that you want to see happen here with Central Asia embracing,
02:30moving more in this direction when you think about who they're surrounded by
02:33and their neighbors to the north and to the east.
02:36Mr. Shapiro, in your testimony, you also laid out several things that have changed over the last seven to ten years
02:41regarding Iran's nuclear production and weapons delivery capabilities.
02:46I'd argue that Iran's intent is and has always been regarding the nuclear capabilities to create a nuclear weapon.
02:54If they were trying to create peaceful nuclear operations, why are they doing it way underground,
02:59why it took the B-2s to destroy that versus something on the surface?
03:03So I think we've settled that question. I think under the Obama administration we had a big fight up here on Capitol Hill.
03:08What's Iran's intent? And I think we've been vindicated in terms of it was to build a nuclear warhead.
03:15Looking at their current capabilities, behavior and rhetoric, do you believe the U.S. should be concerned about their space program?
03:22Just in the last 24 hours, there have been news reports about the Iranians launching a rocket here for their satellite program.
03:29They're saying it's for peaceful purposes.
03:31As somebody who's from a state that has a third of our ICBMs, I think differently perhaps around the importance of space is to deliver an ICBM.
03:39Do you think their space program is a means for perfecting an intercontinental weapons system?
03:46Senator, I'm not expert in the technology, but I do understand that there's not a huge difference between a space launch vehicle and an ICBM.
03:56And if you're able to master one technology, it's quite applicable to the other.
04:00What we clearly know about Iran, and of course we knew this in 2015 when the JCPOA was signed,
04:05and we knew it in 2018 when the U.S. withdrew from the JCPOA, is that Iran has unbridled hostility.
04:12They express it openly. It's their ideology. It's the kind of organizing principle of the regime toward Israel,
04:19which they've called for its destruction toward the United States.
04:22They have, of course, pursued a nuclear weapons program. We understand that.
04:27But also a ballistic missile program. And we even saw the danger that program in its current state can cause in the destruction that Israel endured.
04:36Which I think is part of the under-told story as well.
04:38And Israel having to take preemptive action here was around those ballistic missiles, even absence of a nuclear war.
04:42And they were on a path.
04:43Overwhelm the systems, the defenses of Israel.
04:44Exactly. They were on a path to produce 3,000 a year, really couldn't have been sustained.
04:48And so it's the same risk with an ICBM.
04:51Thank you. Mr. Hook, I want to give you a chance to maybe to weigh in on this as well.
04:54Yeah. The Iranian regime has been using its space program as a cover for its ICBM program for 10, 15 years or longer.
05:04And so I remember when I was working on the U.N. Security Council passing resolutions condemning Iran's use of its space program for these purposes.
05:17To develop an ICBM capability so they can threaten the United States.
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