During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in July, Sen. Steve Daines (R-MT) asked Daniel B. Shapiro, Former U.S. Ambassador to Israel and Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East, about Iran's space program.
00:04A few weeks ago, I made a swing through the caucuses.
00:07This is a question for Ambassador Shapiro.
00:10I had the privilege to meet with President Aliyev.
00:13We had a very productive conversation.
00:15I think one of the under-told stories of what's happening, certainly, in that region of the
00:19world is what they've done to support Israel in terms of energy resources.
00:23I also had a chance to meet with the Israeli ambassador to Azerbaijan, Ambassador George
00:29Deke.
00:30It was a unique opportunity to explore the long-standing diplomatic ties between Azerbaijan and Israel,
00:37a relationship that only looks to grow stronger with the announcement of the Socar oil deal,
00:43which I think is going to help diversify the Israeli energy opportunities.
00:48Ambassador Shapiro, do you believe that Azerbaijan's relationship with Israel, which I think is
00:53an under-told story, might stand as an opportunity for other Islamic nations to expand diplomacy
00:59diplomatic ties and work to normalize relations?
01:02Thank you, Senator.
01:03I do.
01:04I think this relationship, as you said, is sort of under-appreciated.
01:08Sometimes people would say, how can we expand the Abraham Accords, maybe Azerbaijan?
01:11Azerbaijan has had diplomatic relations with Israel for many years, but it's one of the leading
01:16Muslim countries that has done that long before the Abraham Accords came on the scene.
01:21And because of their proximity to the region and even to the threats Israel faces from Iran,
01:28they've been a security partner because of their energy resources.
01:31They're an energy partner because of their Muslim population.
01:36And I might add with that, it's the only country in the world that borders Russia and Iran.
01:41Very strategic.
01:42Their strategic importance is really impossible to deny, but they also have that sort of cultural convening capability
01:49and able to build bridges to strengthen Israel's relations with other Arab and Muslim countries,
01:55including some in South Asia or Central Asia, which probably have relations but not as deep
02:01and as rich as Azerbaijan's.
02:03But as we've thought about ways of broadening those regional convenings to really have the sense
02:09of a European Union or an ASEAN-style organization or gathering of countries in the Middle East,
02:16Azerbaijan most certainly should take part in something like that.
02:19I think Brzezinski described Central Asia as the wine bottle and Azerbaijan as the cork.
02:24It becomes a very important part of that east-west type corridor that you want to see happen here
02:29with Central Asia embracing moving more in this direction when you think about who they're surrounded by
02:33and their neighbors to the north and to the east.
02:36Mr. Shapiro, in your testimony, you also laid out several things that have changed over the last seven to ten years
02:41regarding Iran's nuclear production and weapons delivery capabilities.
02:46I'd argue that Iran's intent is and has always been regarding the nuclear capabilities to create a nuclear weapon.
02:54If they were trying to create peaceful nuclear operations, why are they doing it way underground,
02:59why it took the B-2s to destroy that versus something on the surface?
03:03So I think we've settled that question.
03:05I think under the Obama administration, we had a big fight up here on Capitol Hill.
03:08What's Iran's intent?
03:10And I think we've been vindicated in terms of it was to build a nuclear warhead.
03:15Looking at their current capabilities, behavior, and rhetoric, do you believe the U.S. should be concerned about their space program?
03:22Just in the last 24 hours, there have been news reports about the Iranians launching a rocket here for their satellite program.
03:29They're saying it's for peaceful purposes.
03:32As somebody who's from a state that has a third of our ICBMs, I think differently perhaps around the importance of space is to deliver an ICBM.
03:39Do you think their space program is a means for perfecting an intercontinental weapons system?
03:46Senator, I'm not expert in the technology, but I do understand that there's not a huge difference between a space launch vehicle and an ICBM.
03:56And if you're able to master one technology, it's quite applicable to the other.
04:00What we clearly know about Iran, and of course we knew this in 2015 when the JCPOA was signed,
04:05and we knew it in 2018 when the U.S. withdrew from the JCPOA, is that Iran has unbridled hostility.
04:12They express it openly.
04:14It's their ideology.
04:15It's the kind of organizing principle of the regime toward Israel, which they've called for its destruction, toward the United States.
04:22They have, of course, pursued a nuclear weapons program.
04:26We understand that.
04:27But also a ballistic missile program.
04:29And we even saw the danger that program in its current state can cause in the destruction that Israel endured.
04:36Which I think is part of the under-told story as well.
04:38Israel having to take preemptive action here was around those ballistic missiles, even absence of a nuclear war.
04:42And they were on a path.
04:43Overwhelmed the systems of the defense of Israel.
04:44Exactly.
04:45They were on a path to produce 3,000 a year, really couldn't have been sustained.
04:48Yeah.
04:49And so it's the same risk with an ICBM.
04:52Mr. Hook, I want to give you a chance to maybe to weigh in on this as well.
04:55Yeah.
04:56The Iranian regime has been using its space program as a cover for its ICBM program for 10, 15 years or longer.
05:05And so I remember when I was working on the U.N. Security Council passing resolutions condemning Iran's use of its space program for these purposes to develop an ICBM capability so they can threaten the United States.
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