- 5 months ago
Mark Atkinson is joined by John Greechan of the Edinburgh Evening News to discuss Hibs' upcoming Conference League match against Legia Warsaw.
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00:00Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Scotsman Football Show. My name is Mark Atkinson,
00:06sports editor, and today I'm joined by John Grieken, who is the Hibs correspondent for
00:12our sister's title, The Evening News. He's over in Warsaw just now, ahead of one of the
00:16biggest matches in Hibs' recent history. The Hybies are over in Poland, looking to
00:21qualify for the Conference League. John, good morning to you. How is Warsaw treating you?
00:28Good morning. I arrived late last night, so I haven't seen anything apart from the airport
00:33and the hotel and the bar across the road from the hotel. I had one quick nightcap last night.
00:38I've been here before, so I know it's a great city. I'm looking forward. We're going out
00:42to see the Legia training ground later on, do some interviews out there. It's a little
00:48bit outside the city, so a place I've not been. The stadium's walking distance here as
00:53well, and it's a lovely picturesque walk from here to the stadium, I know that. So right
00:57next to one of the really nicest parks. I think the Hibs fans are beginning to trickle
01:02in starting last night, and I know a few have been in touch. They're coming via all kinds
01:08of varied routes we'll be pitching up today, but they'll find a great city, brilliant people.
01:14It's probably one of the better European trips for that.
01:18And there's a great sense of anticipation, isn't there, from Hibs fans? Even though they're
01:222-1 down from the first leg, the tie is still alive, and there's a huge prize on the line.
01:27Yeah, it's massive. I don't think you can overstate it. In terms of prestige, but in
01:36terms of finance as well, you're talking about £5 million before you've really kicked the
01:41ball in the Conference League proper. But the prestige, the being there, and what it says
01:48about the club, that's a really important thing for everyone involved. And I know we're
01:53coming up to the transfer window, closing as well. We saw, you know, last night in Celtic,
02:01I saw some of Brendan Rodgers talking about investment matters, but it's the timing of
02:04investment. Do you gamble? What do you do? I think a lot depends. As much as the Gordon
02:10family keep underwriting everything, I think a lot depends on what happens tomorrow night.
02:15If they went into going into the Conference League, I would expect more activity. I think
02:19that's just natural, I think, because then David Gray would be able to go to Malky, and
02:23I don't think he even has to do this. I'm pretty sure Garvin Stewart and these guys have got
02:27a plan A and a plan B. And the plan A is probably if we get through to the Conference League, we
02:32need to bring in these probably four more players, because we cannot go, history teaches
02:37us that Scottish teams outside the old firm, trying to go Thursday, Sunday, Thursday, Sunday,
02:41it just kills them. You're right off finishing third place, effectively, don't you? If you're
02:47doing that, because you've got three months where you're dropping points that you probably
02:51shouldn't drop.
02:53Absolutely. I mean, we've seen it happen with Aberdeen and Hearts in the recent seasons.
02:59You mentioned the Gordon family and how they've invested heavily into this club. One of the
03:04big goals of the Gordons when they came in was to firstly make Hibs the undisputed third,
03:09fourth, fourth in the Scottish Republic, but also have them playing in European main
03:13phase football time and time again. This is a moment where Hibs could elevate themselves
03:19to a different level in football. Is that fair to say?
03:24Yeah, and it's not just the Gordons. I mean, when Bill Foley floated the idea of the takeover,
03:29one of his quotes was, they should be the undisputed... Sorry, I'm going to go back there.
03:35When Bill Foley floated his investment in the club, he talked about Hibs being the undisputed
03:44third force in Scottish football. Because the model for his investment works when you're
03:50in Europe every season and pretty much can. I know cup finals can happen, but being third
03:57place should guarantee football, in Conference League at least. So there's an element for everyone
04:04involved in the club. The Gordon family who've put in so much, and Ron Gordon was fascinated by
04:08European football and in love with European football. And, you know, Ian's much the same.
04:13He sees that as this where you want to be. The Black Knight thing, the way they want to move players
04:19within their model to mutual benefit of all clubs really works if you're in Europe. If you're not in
04:25Europe, it doesn't work so well. So there's massive... There's just so many different things at stake.
04:31But as you made the point there, it's also just the prestige, isn't it? Football is so much about
04:37vibes. And this is vibes as you can say, hey, we are like regular European campaigners. Because
04:42they're coming up against teams... Look at what it does to someone like Michelin. I know they've spent
04:48a lot of money, but that... Oh my God, they're just like a really respected European team. Even
04:52Belgrade, you know... Hold on, Legia, Warsaw. You know, tomorrow night, yeah, they got to the
04:58quarterfinals last year. That doesn't happen by accident. That happens by being there season after
05:03season after season and learning. And they've already learned this year. This is... They'd probably
05:08argue they would much rather have been in Aberdeen's situation. But if you go through, you'd much
05:14rather be in the Hibs situation. Because you've had six really testing European games. That
05:18has got to sharpen you up for what is to come. And then for next year, next year, next year
05:23as well, for the guys that are still here.
05:25You mentioned the teams that they've played. It has been quite an impressive European run
05:28so far. The tie against FC Midgetland, really high quality affair. And then Partizan, Belgrade,
05:35really entertaining affair. And I think people need to remind themselves that Midgetland, who
05:39required a very late goal and extra time, just spent £7 million on Philip Billings,
05:44who last year won the Serie A title with Napoli. So Hibs have been rubbing shoulders
05:49with some pretty good teams. I want to ask you, John, you were at the first leg at Easter
05:53Road when Ligia won 2-1. Do you think Ligia and Warsaw are the strongest team Hibs have
06:00faced so far in this European campaign?
06:02Oh, that's a very tricky one. No, I think Midgetland is probably the strongest team in terms
06:09of overall quality. I mean, they needed a late goal at Easter Road and it did take them
06:14time. But they were very, very good. They were, it was like they were doing things to Hibs
06:21in that second half and extra time. You're like, ah, this is a bit hanging on here by the fingernails.
06:26You're going to need something. Partizan were very, very young and really inexperienced.
06:32And that was brilliant for Hibs. Partizan were like, hey, we're going to play our style
06:35of football. Hibs were like, magic. We're going to old man you and beat you 2-0 on your
06:40own patch. Second game, a little bit mad. I think Ligia are probably not quite as good
06:46as Midgetland. I think even in the first leg, 2-0 down, it's all, again, everything is
06:54so erratic for football fans. Oh my God, the world's going to end. And then they got a goal
06:59and it's like, oh, actually, we're going to win now. But I think when you look at it
07:05in the more coldly analytical point of view, Hibs could have been two up within 10 minutes,
07:1313, 14 minutes, whatever it was. You know, Josh Mulligan himself said he didn't know what
07:18he was doing with that first chance. Somebody's like, I don't know. I should have just hit
07:23it. You know, there were chances and chances in there. Kieran Bowie had a couple of chances.
07:28And then even late in the game, even before the goal, Thiebaud Kledje had a right good
07:33chance. So this could be one of these mad games, couldn't it? It could be a 4-3 or something
07:38like that because both teams looked good going forward. I think Ligia are also losing quite
07:44a lot of players at the moment. Either already confirmed gone or one foot in the exit door
07:50and you don't know how that's going to play for them.
07:53You're right. They've just confirmed this week or certainly Polish media confirming that
07:58one of the defenders is going to go into Roma after this time to see if he actually features
08:03against Jan Zawowski and if he can play in this game. Ligia made the quarterfinals of this
08:10competition last year. They played Chelsea. They've got muscle memory of playing well in
08:17Europe. Is that possibly Hibs' biggest impediment up against a team that knows how to get the
08:24job done?
08:25Yeah, that's a great term, the muscle memory thing, isn't it? It is. Just as I was talking
08:30earlier about the fact that Hibs have played five games and will have played six games in
08:33Europe, it has to sharpen you up. And I think you can see that there were elements in the
08:38first game in particular where a couple of Hibs players were just not accurate enough with
08:44what they were trying to do. They needed to play a six and a half yard pass, not an eight
08:48yard pass or a five yard pass. It had to be absolutely buying on the money. Whereas you
08:53could see Ligia were just up to speed with that. So that could be the issue. And it could
08:58almost be a flip side of the partisan thing. The Hibs are that little bit less experienced
09:03and are trying to do their things. And Ligia are going, oh, this is great. We've got, you
09:08know, eight or nine different tricks that we've learned on how to cope with this. I think
09:13what was interesting is, and Gray mentioned it this week, actually David Gray, they changed
09:19their formation to face Hibs. They had played a, like a 3-5-2 against Larnica, but that was
09:25almost a dead rubber of a tie. It was gone that they were losing that one. But they'd
09:29really stuck to this 4-3-3, 4-1-4-1 type thing for a long time. And the way David Gray was
09:38talking about it, he expected them to go back to that. But they matched up with Hibs almost
09:44exactly 3-5-2 against a 3-4-1-2, whatever you want to call it. They matched up and that
09:48was a compliment to Hibs. But I think it also showed a flexibility and a degree of
09:54comfort with each other and comfort in the European arena that they, that their coach
09:59went, we're just going to change this up, guys. Remember what we did in this game or
10:02that game? And you'll have this shorthand with them. And, you know, for a lot of the game
10:07it worked very well. So yeah, the experience could be the deciding factor.
10:10One other thing that David Gray has to decide is, who does he bring into this
10:16team? There was a lot of, a lot of clamour from Hibs fans after the match saying
10:21that Josh Campbell in hindsight shouldn't have started in midfield and they should
10:24have maybe given Miguel Chaiwa a start after his impressive performance at
10:28Livingston. Jamie McGrath comes in. There's also some people saying that Thibaut
10:32Cleetje should start given that he's played well in his past two matches. Do you
10:37expect many changes to the Hibs team that played in the first leg?
10:43I don't expect masses of changes, no. I mean, I don't think you break up Bowie and
10:48Boyle up front for starters. I just think that is too well established. And, you know,
10:56Martin Boyle jokes about not knowing what Bowie's going to do at times, but he is
11:02playing with him more regularly. So he's picking up on what Bowie's trying to do at
11:06least. He'll get it right 60 or 70% of the time. Where I think it's been a bit of
11:10ask. Although Cleetje looks, you know, from those first couple of substitute
11:15appearances when everyone was looking at each other going, hmm, not sure about this, to
11:19suddenly now looks like a real player. But I don't think you mess with the front. I don't
11:23think you mess with the back three, which is fair enough. You know, and if Nicky
11:28Cadden's fit, he'll compete with Jordan Abita. It's a straight choice. Chris Cadden's stuck
11:34on in there. Or do you move Josh Mulligan out there? That's the point. You can move him
11:37out there and, you know, have your cake and eat it in the midfield. Have three guys in
11:43there. I think a lot will depend on whether Jamie McGrath's fit. If Jamie McGrath's fit
11:47and ready to play, you play him.
11:48Absolutely. He's already shown in this European campaign his ability to get on the ball, shield
11:56it, use it well, take free kicks. Obviously, deliveries are great. But he has that little
12:03extra level of nous, I think, that you're looking for at this. And again, people were like really
12:11laying in on it to Josh Campbell. And it's like that Josh was doing the job he was given
12:17to do. And you don't buy a cat and expect it to bark. You know, it's like he wasn't suddenly
12:23going to be able to do things that are out with his wheelhouse, as it were. But he was,
12:30Gray brings him in there for the energy and the driving and the running because he's the
12:33only one in that squad probably who can just go box to box to box to box to box about 18 times
12:38without drawing breath. So it was a very, very different type of thing. The interesting
12:44thing is you need to win this game. So what do you do? And I think Levitt's been excellent
12:49in there. Mulligan's been very good. Chayla looks a player, though. Even Alessandro Mane's
12:54looked good when he's come on. It's great for him to have these options. And yeah, I'm fascinated
13:00to see. And I would always look for a place, if you could, late in the game, even second half
13:06for Junior Hoylet because he, again, is another one who just, the ball is controlled and stuck
13:13and everyone knows what's going to happen with it. He's going to do something clever with it.
13:17And his defensive positioning is very, very good through all this experience. So there's a lot to
13:22mix into there. I don't think it'd be massively changed, say, at either end of the parks. Maybe
13:26that midfield, maybe you mix with it if Madras fit. Who else is out injured? No, just Nicky,
13:32really. He was the only other one. I think Rudy Milotnikov was left at home, played with
13:37it, or maybe he'll probably be here, but he played with the B team last night and scored,
13:41which is one to be coming in over the season. They're not too bad in that area, put it that
13:47way.
13:48As you say, John, they've got plenty of options, which gives them the best possible chance
13:53of, I would say, recording one of the best results in Scottish football, European recent
13:59history, if they were, to get the victory and make the Conference League. I know you've got a busy
14:04day ahead, John. You're going off to see Ligia and then we've got the Hibs Fumax Press Conference,
14:08so we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us. John will have loads of coverage in
14:12the Scotsman and also, of course, in our society of the Evening News. So please log on to both
14:17websites or buy a newspaper if you want the best coverage. John, thank you very much for joining us.
14:21Enjoy Warsaw and I'm sure we'll speak again soon. Bye for now.
14:25Cheers.
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