- 6 weeks ago
This week on Power House, Diego Sanchez chats with Colin Allen, Executive Director of the American Property Owners Alliance (APOA), about their housing advocacy efforts in Congress through digital and grassroots efforts. Before his role at APOA, Colin spent over a decade working on housing legislative efforts at the National Association of Realtors.
He discusses the impact of the recent boost in the state and local tax deduction (SALT) cap and shares how initiatives like the More Homes on the Market Act and the Neighborhood Homes Investment Act tackle the housing crisis by boosting supply and making homeownership more accessible.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
How the APOA is tackling housing supply issues with innovative solutions like the More Homes on the Market Act and the Neighborhood Homes Investment Act.
The role of federal and local partnerships in driving meaningful change for homeowners.
How grassroots advocacy is reshaping the legislative landscape for property rights.
The impact of recent tax reforms on homeownership and the broader housing market.
Strategies to support first-time homebuyers through financial education and awareness initiatives.
Related to this episode:
Colin Allen | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-c-allen
American Property Owners Alliance Announces Executive Director Appointment
https://propertyownersalliance.org/article/american-property-owners-alliance-announces-executive-director-appointment/
American Property Owners Alliance
https://propertyownersalliance.org/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire president Diego Sanchez every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
He discusses the impact of the recent boost in the state and local tax deduction (SALT) cap and shares how initiatives like the More Homes on the Market Act and the Neighborhood Homes Investment Act tackle the housing crisis by boosting supply and making homeownership more accessible.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
How the APOA is tackling housing supply issues with innovative solutions like the More Homes on the Market Act and the Neighborhood Homes Investment Act.
The role of federal and local partnerships in driving meaningful change for homeowners.
How grassroots advocacy is reshaping the legislative landscape for property rights.
The impact of recent tax reforms on homeownership and the broader housing market.
Strategies to support first-time homebuyers through financial education and awareness initiatives.
Related to this episode:
Colin Allen | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-c-allen
American Property Owners Alliance Announces Executive Director Appointment
https://propertyownersalliance.org/article/american-property-owners-alliance-announces-executive-director-appointment/
American Property Owners Alliance
https://propertyownersalliance.org/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire president Diego Sanchez every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00This episode of Powerhouse is brought to you by Fellow.
00:11Welcome to Powerhouse, where we interview the biggest names in housing and ask them about their strategy for growth.
00:18I'm Diego Sanchez, president of HousingWire, and my guest today is Colin Allen,
00:23executive director of the American Property Owners Alliance.
00:27Colin, it's so great to have you on the show.
00:30Well, Diego, thanks for having me. Good to join you.
00:32So let's begin with the beginning. What is the American Property Owners Alliance?
00:37So the alliance really at its core is about advocacy, right?
00:41With a strong focus on digital and grassroots, we work with elected officials, real estate professionals,
00:47and financial leaders and community stakeholders to bring together, you know, kind of millions of homeowners
00:53and bring that voice to represent property owners across the country.
00:58Really, in the most important conversations that are happening here in D.C. about homeownership, about property rights.
01:05So, you know, really grassroots organization that works to empower homeowners and those who want to realize the American dream, right?
01:12And really work to represent that voice here in legislation and make sure that that's reflected and those voices are reflected in what's going on here in D.C.
01:22in the halls of Congress.
01:23So you're focused in Washington, D.C. on the federal government.
01:28Do you partner with organizations that work in the states or even in cities?
01:36We do.
01:36You know, again, the legislative focus is largely at the federal level.
01:39But, yeah, we're out doing kind of homeownership-related events and education out in some of the states and cities.
01:50So when we're there, we're partnering with local lenders, with realtors, and oftentimes, you know, state and local government officials when we're there as well.
01:58But, again, kind of that legislative priority lives a little bit more at the federal level.
02:03You have a pretty interesting background, including a decade at the National Association of Realtors and over six years as a legislative assistant in the United States Senate.
02:16How did this background of yours prepare you for your work at APOA?
02:22So, you know, I think, you know, in addition to kind of learning that the policy and the legislative process, you know, working on the Hill, I feel like gave me some really good insights into what members of Congress and their staff need to get their jobs done.
02:37You know, the Senate process, as you have seen here recently with this most recent reconciliation bill, every few years gets, you know, comes into focus and is important.
02:48And it's not something that everybody in town here really understands or knows how to work with.
02:54So, you know, when we get into reconciliation bills on taxes and things like that, it's really helpful to have that background.
03:01You know, and then working, you know, with here at NAR, you know, it was what I'd call kind of a shoe leather lobbyist capacity, right, where you're going up to the Hill, you're meeting and talking with members and their staff
03:14and doing things mostly in person to get issues on housing, on taxes, you know, one that we were really successful on that actually just came, you know, I think to the fore here is this issue of credit score competition
03:30that the FHFA recently implemented so that, you know, things like rent and utility bill payments can count positively towards your credit score.
03:40So that's something that I've worked on both on that side and that we've been advocating for here on the Alliance as well.
03:48You know, one of the opportunities that I saw, you know, kind of have in both of those backgrounds was being able to integrate.
03:55And this was really one of the reasons that I jumped in and jumped at the chance to get involved with the Alliance early on was being able to get this,
04:04kind of integrate this digital and the grassroots side into the advocacy operation, right?
04:12I'd say one of the things, and maybe it's a blind spot for that traditional lobbyist,
04:16and I would say that I kind of fell prey to that myself, you know, coming through and doing lobbying is really, you know, kind of focusing on that job at hand, right?
04:27You know, my job here is to go up and talk to members of Congress, and that's really all that, you know, that you would focus on doing that.
04:36But really moving over here and working on things on the, you know, consumer advocacy side,
04:42you're able to kind of get out and paint that picture, right?
04:46You want to warm up your audience.
04:48So you're painting that picture before you walk, before you or a representative from your organization walks in the door,
04:54and you're making sure on the back end that the members, that their staff are hearing from their constituents,
05:00from other third-party validators that really, you know, kind of complement your message,
05:05what they should do and, you know, kind of how they can work to solve these problems.
05:10So I'd say it's a more, you know, where we are now, a more comprehensive approach that we've been able to implement over here,
05:19and I think it's really paying dividends both for us and our partners in the real estate industry, you know,
05:24when they go in and talk to folks on the Hill.
05:27Was there anything in the recent tax bill that got you excited as the executive director of an organization that represents U.S. homeowners?
05:37So, you know, the big one there, right, is the state and local tax deduction, right?
05:42And it falls squarely in as a benefit for current homeowners.
05:47You know, it's one of the things that got limited in the 2017 Tax Act,
05:52but we were able to go back and by, you know, advocating and by mobilizing homeowners across the United States
05:58and amplifying that message to Congress, we were able to help our allies on the Hill get that deduction,
06:06the state and local tax deduction or SALT, increased from $10,000 to $40,000.
06:11So that's something that's, you know, it's really going to pay.
06:14I think it makes sure that, you know, the vast majority of American homeowners are going to be able to deduct
06:21all of their state and local property taxes on their homes.
06:25Yeah, I remember as a homeowner in the state of New York, that initial bill, it hurt.
06:33Like, I definitely felt it that next tax year.
06:36Exactly.
06:37No, and this is, you know, for the folks that are paying taxes on their homes, you know,
06:42this is, it's going to be a big relief, especially for places like, you know, California, New York,
06:47and some of those places that have both high home values and high property taxes.
06:52The one that got talked about, I think a little bit less, and we were able to leverage some of that is Texas, right?
06:59You know, you see some of these states that may not have an income tax or have like lower sales taxes,
07:05but they have relatively high property taxes.
07:07So you're seeing more people in those growing states with growing economies and hot housing markets,
07:15you know, kind of creep into that, that creep above that $10,000 limit.
07:19And I think that's something that we're able to, you know, bring to the conversation in that as well.
07:23So let's zoom out a little bit.
07:25What problems are you trying to solve at the American Property Owners Alliance?
07:32Right.
07:32So on the homeowner side, we covered SALT pretty well, right?
07:35It's this issue of the ongoing cost of ownership, right?
07:39And taxes play a huge piece in that on the broader side, right?
07:45It's housing supply.
07:47This, this, this issue of like not having enough homes is really at the root of the affordability
07:52problems that we see for everybody here in the country.
07:55It's a common refrain that we hear from, from homeowners, you know, who are, who are looking
07:59to move up or a first time buyer is looking to get into the market.
08:03There just are not enough homes for sale at a price that they can afford in a place that they want to live.
08:08So I think a lot of homeowners celebrated the increase in the SALT cap that was part of the
08:16recent bill and that we just discussed.
08:18Do you have any concerns that tax incentives like the mortgage interest deduction make home
08:27supply more inelastic?
08:29You know, it's one of those things, right?
08:31Where we're buying a home is, you know, it's a really big decision.
08:35And I think the, the tax benefits that you get, um, are, are certainly a benefit to, to the current
08:41owner, right?
08:42But, you know, this is the biggest financial decision that you're going to make, uh, for
08:46most American families.
08:48Uh, you know, the finance and the tax aspects are, are not really the only thing that you're
08:52considering.
08:53Um, people are looking at security, proximity to their jobs, uh, you know, neighborhood schools,
08:59uh, you know, are they close to their family or their friends?
09:01Um, so, you know, while things like the mortgage interest deduction and SALT are, are, are really
09:06a benefit to them, I don't think it's the, uh, you know, the real, uh, the crux of the
09:11decision there, right?
09:12On, on where they're going to live or how much they're going to spend on a home.
09:15Um, I think the two things that we would really look at, uh, on the inelasticity side, I think
09:20there's some, uh, documented evidence here that we're, we're seeing that they contribute would
09:25be, you know, interest rates, right?
09:26You know, you hear the contra constant calls, uh, to, to, to decrease interest rates.
09:31We had, you know, decade of, of, uh, uh, very, very low rates and a very quick, uh, increase
09:37in those rates.
09:38So we're, we're seeing that rates are, you know, a measurable lock-in effect from that.
09:42Uh, and then capital gains, uh, right.
09:44I think you're seeing, uh, NAR had done some studies, uh, where they're saying, you know,
09:4813 or so million folks, uh, exceed the current thresholds at 250 and 500,000 for single
09:53unmarried, uh, folks, uh, and, and really it's even more acute for people who have been
09:58in their homes longer.
09:59Uh, so, you know, it's 89% of folks who, who had bought before 1990 are probably going to
10:04have some type of, uh, uh, capital gains impact, uh, if they sell their home.
10:08So I think those are the two that, uh, on that inelasticity side in, in terms of solutions
10:13that we're looking for, that we'd really be, um, focusing on, uh, uh, to try to, to try,
10:18try to address that, you know, rates, uh, there's, there's less that we can do, uh, with the federal,
10:22uh, federal reserve, uh, being there, but we're all fed watchers right now, uh, on cap
10:26gains.
10:27I think that's one that we're, uh, we're, we're acutely focused on, uh, here, uh, probably
10:31looking into what we understand is going to be a second reconciliation or maybe even third
10:36reconciliation bill, uh, with, with tax focus, uh, coming up here over the next few months.
10:41So I would agree with you that supply is a, is a big issue in the U S especially the supply
10:48of affordable homes.
10:50What kinds of innovative solutions are you advocating for in DC, uh, and what kinds of
10:57solutions is your organization working on?
10:59So definitely on the legislative side, right?
11:02We talked a little bit about cap gains.
11:03Uh, one of the things that we've looked at is the, uh, or, or actively working on, uh,
11:08is the more homes on the market act, uh, that would double the current thresholds, uh, uh,
11:12for the capital gains exclusion from 250, uh, and 500,000 to 500,000 and a million.
11:19Uh, what that would do is roughly keep up with, uh, with inflation since 1997, when the
11:24exclusion was enacted, um, great thing is we're getting a lot of traction on this idea and
11:30it's morphed into the idea of there's no tax on home sales act.
11:33Uh, so I think we're really well positioned.
11:36We've heard some positive things out of the president.
11:38We've now got several members championing both the more homes on the market act and the
11:42no sales on homes, uh, no tax on home sales act, uh, in, in, in Congress.
11:47So I think we're, we're in a really good position to, to, to, to move this forward, uh, in a,
11:52in a potential legislative vehicle.
11:54Um, another one that, uh, that we've been looking at on the, on the supply side, and I
11:58would put this in the idea of like super common sense, uh, and, uh, and, and, and almost like
12:04low hanging fruit is the, uh, the neighborhood homes investment act.
12:08Uh, this would, uh, you know, kind of cover it'd be a tax credit to
12:11redevelop, uh, you know, underutilized and, and abandoned properties.
12:16Uh, it would put 500,000 homes on the market over the next few years.
12:21Uh, secretaries, uh, Carson and Cisneros or former HUD secretaries, uh, wrote, uh, wrote
12:27an op-ed about it in the, uh, Washington post this morning.
12:30Uh, you know, so it would cover the, the, the difference, uh, between rehab and sales price.
12:35So, right.
12:36You know, you, you, you buy a house for $150,000, you put $50,000 into it, uh, but you can only
12:42sell it for, for 175, right?
12:45So you've got 200,000 invested, uh, but the sales price ends up being 175.
12:49It'd be a tax credit to cover that difference.
12:51Uh, so this is something that, uh, I think is a relatively low, uh, relatively low cost,
12:56but, but pretty significant bang for the buck.
12:58And, and something that, uh, again, I think would fit really well into another, uh, uh, tax bill
13:04coming down the road here soon.
13:05Yeah, it could be magical in, in some cities that, um, have had a lot of home supply that,
13:11um, just isn't fit for living in right now, but maybe we can bring it back to market.
13:16Exactly.
13:17I mean, you look at that and you look at things like, you know, some of this office to residential
13:20conversion, again, in places where it makes sense, uh, you know, DC has, uh, has, has,
13:25has kind of led the way in, uh, in a lot of, a lot of things about that office residential.
13:30And it's one of those that, right.
13:31You talk to folks, uh, it's like a 90% positive, right.
13:34You know, so that makes a ton of sense.
13:36We've got empty buildings over there.
13:38Why isn't it that we can't, you know, kind of fix these up and make them so that, uh,
13:42so that they're, you know, attractive housing again in it, at a price that people can afford
13:47in, uh, in the communities that they want to live in.
13:50Yeah.
13:51You know, my, my theory is you mentioned 90%, you know, approval.
13:54Uh, my theory is housing has gotten tricky enough and unaffordable enough for a lot of
14:01folks that someone could come in and, and, and run for president, uh, on, on housing, uh,
14:07and, and, and probably attract a pretty significant majority if they had the right solutions.
14:13You know, I think so.
14:14Right.
14:14It's, it's one of those where we, you know, and kind of looking at a lot of the polling,
14:18um, you know, you're starting to see it pop out, you know, in, uh, Gallup's kind of
14:22open-ended, uh, questions, uh, it's always, you know, inflation in the economy or jobs
14:27in the economy.
14:28Right.
14:28But you're starting to see housing really pop out there.
14:30Uh, and, and that's something that we've been trying to tease out is, you know, where
14:34does it fit in that ecosystem of just things are more expensive than they used to be?
14:39Uh, and, and no, I think, I think so.
14:41And I think this is why you're seeing, uh, you know, president Trump now kind of jump on
14:44this bandwagon of, uh, you know, no, no, no tax on home sales.
14:47Right.
14:48Uh, it, or, you know, frankly, even creating the bandwagon to jump on.
14:52Uh, around that issue.
14:53Um, you know, it's, uh, it definitely something that, that, that I know, uh, as, as you get
14:58into the campaigns and things like that coming up in the, uh, in, in 2026, I think you're
15:02going to hear a lot more about it.
15:04So a lot of media outlets frame home ownership in the U S as this zero sum game where it's like
15:14baby boomers against millennials and Gen Z.
15:17Um, and it's, it, you know, it's, it, it's, it's, it's sort of a, a static pie or even
15:22a shrinking pie.
15:24Um, is there another way that we should be looking at home ownership as a society?
15:28Yeah.
15:29Again, right.
15:29Like I think home ownership is, you know, it's a ladder, right.
15:32It's part of an ecosystem and, and, you know, being able to increase that supply there is,
15:38it, I don't think it is a zero sum game.
15:40Like you're talking about, you know, so somebody doesn't have to lose bigly to, to, to, to,
15:46you know, for, for others to gain.
15:47Right.
15:48I think we can get in there and we can do things like neighborhood homes investment, like,
15:52uh, uh, the more homes on the market act, uh, that are, you know, kind of common sense
15:56policies that would bring some supply to the market right now.
15:59And then, you know, what can we do to encourage our friends on the building side, right.
16:03To, to build, uh, you know, I think the common refrain that we hear from, uh, from a lot
16:07of folks, uh, anecdotally is there just aren't enough starter homes, right.
16:11You know, what can we do to, uh, you know, kind of help, uh, encourage the building sector
16:16to, to meet people where they are, right.
16:18You know, and build in that, that, that kind of entry level price point, uh, rather than
16:22building to that move up, uh, that move up crew.
16:25Uh, you know, I, I think that's, that's something that we're, we're looking for that, uh, the answer
16:30to that one right now as well.
16:32Yeah.
16:32Let's talk a little bit more about that.
16:34I'd be interested to hear if you have any innovative ideas there, because I've talked
16:37to a lot of home builders and we actually just bought a, uh, home building publication
16:43called the builders daily.
16:44And, uh, a lot of executives at home builders are just completely frustrated with, uh, local
16:53regulations and NIMBYism.
16:55Right.
16:55Uh, and it's very difficult to build a lot of starter homes because of those two sort of
17:02an almost intractable issues.
17:04Right.
17:04Uh, do you have any thoughts on what we could do to bust through a little bit of that, a
17:09little bit of that NIMBYism and local regulation issue when it comes to start starter homes?
17:13Yeah.
17:14So I think for sure, you know, at least at the federal level, like some of the, uh, some
17:17of the things that are going on in terms of cutting back on some of the environmental
17:20review and permitting reform and things like that, I think it definitely paid dividends.
17:24Uh, there was a bill that passed out of the Senate banking committee this morning.
17:27It's called the road to home act, uh, included a few provisions like that.
17:31Uh, it, it, it would, um, again, this still has to go to the full Senate and would then
17:36have to go to the house, but passed out of the committee 24 to nothing.
17:39So this is a good bipartisan bill, lots of compromise in there.
17:42Um, you know, I think things like that, looking at, uh, other provisions that were in that one,
17:47um, looking at, uh, looking at, uh, manufactured housing and modular homes, right.
17:52You know, are there things like that that you can do to actually bring the cost of construction
17:56down?
17:57Uh, I think that would make a ton of sense.
17:58Uh, you know, I, I live, uh, here in Arlington County, uh, where we had, uh, some of this missing
18:04middle, uh, issue come up where, you know, looking at doing by right development of, uh, you
18:09know, two to two, six unit properties on what are zoned single family, um, that was challenged
18:16in courts.
18:17It's currently on hold.
18:18Uh, so yeah, I mean, I think, uh, you know, looking at some of those things.
18:22Uh, are, are definitely, uh, definitely some of the things that we're doing and from the
18:26messaging side, right.
18:27I think what we're looking at is like, how do you talk to people about this, right.
18:31To, and, and, and, and kind of carry that message of from a property owner standpoint,
18:37it benefits you to have different kinds of properties, uh, uh, around you, be that, you
18:42know, like, like multifamily residential, uh, it'd be that, um, you know, and, and what we're
18:48talking about, I think when we, when we look at that is not, um, you know, it's not
18:52a high rise right in the middle of a neighborhood, it's, you know, can we put a duplex in, or
18:56could we put, you know, three, you know, three townhouse development in sideways or something
19:00like that.
19:01Um, so, you know, convincing folks that, that, that, that it's also in their best interest
19:05to have that kind of mixed, uh, uh, development there, right.
19:08That it's good for property values.
19:10It's not going to overcrowd the schools, things like that.
19:12Right.
19:13You know, we're, we're, um, kind of out talking to folks in the communities about things like
19:17that and, and, and really trying to figure out if there's a policy there that could thread
19:20that needle or, or, or, or is it, you know, uh, a, a, a messaging and, uh, you know, hearts
19:26and minds kind of activity there.
19:27Yeah.
19:29So maybe we'll wrap up with, um, you know, a big question about first time home buyers and
19:35the American dream.
19:36It, uh, it is a challenging time out there right now.
19:40If you're a first time home buyer, you have historically high home prices and mortgage
19:45rates are well above the range that they've been in for the past decade.
19:49Um, and, uh, so it, affordability is, is challenging.
19:54What is, uh, the American property owners Alliance, uh, doing to help first time home
20:02buyers get into their first home?
20:05Well, you know, in, in some cases, so one, we're out in the communities doing, uh, education
20:09and, uh, and, and financial, uh, awareness, uh, events.
20:14Uh, we're going to be in Chicago, uh, August, uh, 9th and 10th.
20:18Uh, and, and these events are, are very specifically, we, we've seen a strong desire and, um, and, uh,
20:24and interest from, uh, in closing the, uh, black, white homeownership gap.
20:28Uh, so we've gone out and we're doing financial education and awareness events across the country.
20:33Uh, we've been in Cleveland, we've been in Little Rock, uh, we've been in Memphis, uh, like
20:37said, we're going to Chicago, going to be in Detroit, uh, and, and Houston, uh, later
20:41on this year, uh, you know, and, and some of this is, is providing people with the tools
20:45that they need, uh, uh, to, to, to get into that market.
20:48And, and, and one of the things, uh, we just had a poll in the field, um, that was asking,
20:53you know, kind of some of the myths around home, home buying, right.
20:56And debunking some of these myths, uh, of the non-homeowners that we polled, uh, 80% of
21:01them thought you had to have 20% down.
21:03Um, so, you know, it's stuff like that, right.
21:05Where you just say like, look, you have got a ton of options here, right.
21:09Were you in the military?
21:10Do you live in a rural area?
21:11Uh, you know, it, it, FHA, you know, there's FHA, uh, there's private mortgage insurance.
21:16There's a ton of options that you got here, uh, in terms of, of getting in.
21:20And, you know, if you're looking at a, a, a, uh, uh, you know, uh, the place where we
21:25are right now with a, you know, median home price, $435,000, right.
21:2820% of that's 90,000 bucks, right.
21:30You know, if you, if you are looking at that as a first time home buyer, that's pretty
21:33intimidating.
21:34Uh, and, and knowing that there are, there are people there that can help you.
21:37Right.
21:38I think having, uh, you know, having that trusted expert to kind of guide you through the process,
21:41uh, be that a realtor, be that, uh, you know, the, the, the right loan officer, things like
21:45that, uh, you know, and, and, and putting people with, uh, people with those, those resources
21:50is, uh, is, is where we're trying to do a lot of on the ground work right now.
21:54Colin, it was really good chatting with you today and, and batting these ideas back and
21:59forth, thank you so much for joining me on powerhouse.
22:02Thanks, Diego.
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