- 3 weeks ago
On today’s episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with Jonathon Haddad, CEO of AIME, about how he's leading AIME in a new direction to grow broker market share.
Related to this episode:
UWM announces three new broker tools at AIME Fuse
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/uwm-tools-broker-efficiency/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
To learn more about Trust & Will, click here.
https://trustandwill.com/
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Related to this episode:
UWM announces three new broker tools at AIME Fuse
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/uwm-tools-broker-efficiency/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
To learn more about Trust & Will, click here.
https://trustandwill.com/
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome, everyone. My guest today is Jonathan Haddad. He is the CEO of AIM, and we are recording
00:11this in person at AIM Fuse here in Nashville. Super excited to have this conversation. First,
00:17I want to say thank you to our sponsor, Trust in Will, for making this episode possible.
00:22Jonathan, welcome to the podcast.
00:24Thank you for having me. I know we continue to grow our relationship, and we love that y'all
00:27are here, and we cannot wait to continue to grow us forward.
00:30You know what? We really appreciate that. We love finding out more about what brokers want,
00:37what they're driven by. Our goal is always to get to know them more and get closer relationships.
00:42It's been a great conference, great content. I just want to start out. I feel like you're
00:48taking, just by having this in Nashville, taking AIM in a different direction. Give me a little
00:54bit of your vision for what you want AIM to be.
00:56You know, I started in retail for six and a half years. I worked at Rocket for those six
01:01and a half years, and I learned a lot. I grew through the ranks very quickly. I became a leader
01:05at 22 years old. My first full month on the banking floor, I did 40 loans. I set a record
01:11at the company, youngest, fastest ever promoted. And here's the thing. When you first start,
01:16you're very green as a loan officer. And you get into this environment, and it's fast-paced.
01:20It's very fast-paced. And you end up falling into this trap of instant gratification. And we've seen
01:26that trap of instant gratification continue to grow and continue to plague loan officers and the rest
01:31of society alike. And so for me, as I continue to grow through my journey, yes, the partying and all
01:37of that, great, fantastic. I'm done with that. We're done with that. We believe with AI and everything
01:43else that people are doing, brokers need to stay much more focused. So from our content perspective,
01:49it's all about sales. It's not about the party. It's not about the after effects. That's why we're
01:54starting things at 6.30 in the morning. We're going until 10 p.m. at night. And you know what's
01:58beautiful? People are showing up. And those are the people that we really want to make sure are
02:02getting the bang for their buck. Because when I was in retail, you had to sit at that desk all day
02:07long. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. It taught me so much discipline that I'm so grateful
02:11for it. And now it's time that the broker community really sees what it was like. They want to see the
02:16hardcore sales side of me. They want to see why I flew through the ranks at Quicken Loans,
02:21at Rocket Mortgage. Well, now they're seeing it. And it's intense. And it's a lot of work for people.
02:26And it's not for everybody. But it's for the people that we want. We want sales professionals
02:30that want to grow their sales acumen so the broker community can continue to scale as well.
02:36Love that. Okay. I will tell you, I go to a lot of conferences. These are the earliest session
02:39times that I've seen. So you are definitely delivering on that. It's like 7 o'clock things start.
02:45Okay. So let me dig in on that a little bit. I was at Nexus event a few weeks ago. Mike Cortis
02:51stood up and gave a really interesting talk about how it's really kind of like brokers need to grow
02:59up. And he took it on himself. He's like, that includes me, right? And instead of being so combative,
03:05be more focused, more professional. His point in that was like, we aren't going to grow the channel
03:11unless we attract more people who maybe haven't been attracted so far. What do you think about
03:17that? I love it. You know, I think that's the reason we changed from brokers are better to brokers
03:21are best last year. And obviously a bunch of other things that are continuing to go on behind the
03:26scenes that will come to life here in the very near future. But with what he said, he's completely
03:31spot on. And that's why what you've seen from AIM is no attacks. Instead, though, what you're watching
03:35is people starting to attack us. And the reason they're attacking us now is we're starting to grow.
03:40We won't attack back. We're not here to punch and fight and bicker and talk about all the drama.
03:45Nobody cares. You won't see me engage in a confrontation online. You haven't seen it yet.
03:50It's been two years. And everyone keeps saying, oh, just wait. Oh, just wait. Well, keep waiting.
03:55You know, I'm a very busy human being like so many others, but I also have three young kids.
03:59I have two full-time jobs and I have a marriage that I want to maintain. I have a relationship that I want
04:04to continue to grow. I love my wife. I love our relationship. And this industry is not good for
04:08marriages. We know that. And so for me, I got to keep my morals locked in. I've had issues in my
04:14past, just like so many others have, but my focus is so different now. So for everybody that talks
04:19about it at AIM, just show me over the last two years since I took over where I've been combative.
04:24I've welcomed conversation over and over again. I've walked into the fire. I've taken a beating
04:29personally online and I show up with a smile every single time. And that's what I teach our people.
04:34That's why AIM is not the same as it's been. And it's been almost two years of the same consistency.
04:39So I agree with Mike Cordes. I actually believe he is spot on. We do all have to grow up. And that's
04:45why you will not see engagement from AIM from a negative standpoint, because we won't attract
04:49retail. We won't attract those LOs because they'll use that against us. Oh, you really want to get into
04:54that drama? That's not something we're going to allow people to say about this association.
04:57Really interesting. Okay. In the past, you know, the brokers AIM specifically has been like,
05:04they had a specific target. You know, we want this much market share. We want brokers to own this
05:08much of the market. What is the current thinking on that? Where are you guys and where do you want
05:13to be? So yesterday, Matt Ishbia did a, his keynote, I believe we're at about 28.2%. The goal for us last
05:19year, I talked about it. It's 50% market share. I believe that's doable. What you'll start seeing more of,
05:24though, is non-delegated coming into the broker space more and more often. I think that's something
05:30with the current environment, especially with the CFPB and all the other things going on,
05:34where you're going to see a big change and watching a lot of brokerages start adding a
05:39non-delegated channel to their, to their industries. Okay. Tell me a little bit more about
05:44that. What do the CFPB changes have to do with adding it? So, well, if you saw earlier, CFPB was about
05:50to go on this, uh, this attack, uh, and, um, you could, there was a list basically, you can look
05:55up companies, NMLS numbers, and there was that potential litigation lawsuits, whatever it was,
05:59everyone was hearing rumblings. And then what you saw is the CFPB kind of, not kind of, it got
06:03dismantled. Right. And so with it getting dismantled, people start to peel back the layers
06:08and understand situations and what's going on. Non-delegated, you close the loan in your name,
06:14you follow a different set of guidelines and rules when it comes to how the loan is sold on
06:18the secondary markets. And so what you're seeing is brokers becoming a lot more interested in what
06:23it means to be non-delegated. And that's why I believe you're going to see a massive shift
06:28with warehouse lines and other organizations entering the broker space. We're already in
06:33conversations now with multiple warehouse lines to bring to our community and teach them about it.
06:38We believe it's going to initially upfront, people are going to be thrown back and caught off guard and
06:42a little upset, but look, at the end of the day, people need to grow their businesses. The end goal is to
06:47help people close more loans, get more families into homes, help them take care of them. And we
06:52believe this is the next path for mortgage brokers. And we're going to be helping them understand it
06:56and learn it moving forward. Okay. Bringing in more warehouse lines. That's, you know, that's a great
07:01example of, of what my next question is, which is like, how are you helping very specifically? How are
07:06you helping brokers to do more business? Well, you saw our sessions obviously here at Fuse. So for me,
07:12it's about the cadences of, of what I learned in retail, to be just quite frank with you,
07:16how the systems are actually set up. One of the advantages that retail has is a lot of these
07:21companies have millions and billions of dollars. And so they have a different approach when it comes
07:25to marketing and they have a different approach when it comes to staying in front of consumers.
07:29So taking the, what I've learned and my understanding of direct to consumer and my understanding of
07:34clients, it's how can I teach you those same methods, but in your community, in your system,
07:40you know, being in retail every month, the goals are insane, right? And look,
07:44they drive in opportunity. So I totally get it. But on the broker space, you don't need to close
07:4940 a month. That's the only way I would get paid. If I did 40 loans a month, then I would receive a
07:54really decent paycheck. 40. That's insane. On our side, five, six, seven, eight. So we want to help
08:01people through those channels, teach them sales, teach them the methodology of sales and teach them to be
08:06more consistent, leveraging processors, leveraging loan officer assistance, and stop pretending you
08:11can do it all by yourself. You just can't. As much as we all think we're great, I do the same thing.
08:16Oh, no one can do it better than me. Yes, yes, people can. You have to trust, you have to let go.
08:21And that's why with all these little things that we keep bringing to the table, we believe that's
08:24going to help people get to their next level, regardless of where they're at in their business,
08:28being brand new or 20 years into it.
08:30So we see a lot of interest for all of those reasons that you've suggested in the broker
08:36space. And you mentioned Rocket. They've definitely upped the ante with Rocket Pro-TPO, right? How do
08:44you, and no matter where you are in the mortgage industry, the fact that you now have Redfin,
08:50Rocket, Mr. Cooper, that line of businesses that feed into each other, it's more competitive. So
08:57how do you help specifically on that when you have some consolidation in the industry that makes
09:03it, how do you help people be competitive in this environment? The first thing is you teach them
09:08what it actually is, right? And if you notice, I did not go on an attack and neither did Dame about
09:13that situation. Right. But I did explain how it actually works. There are such a, look, those are
09:19for-profit companies, right? For-profit. They report to investors, and this is any organization. So look at it
09:26from a business standpoint first. Their job is for their investors. Whether people like that or not,
09:32oh, the client, no, it's not. They report to investors. That's how their stock shares go up.
09:36That's how they get liquidity. That's how they get opportunities to open the door up. It's based off
09:40of what the investors want, which is what? Profit. How are you going to make profit? How are you going to
09:44keep these clients here? How are you going to make sure that they stay in our ecosystem so we believe
09:48in you and we'll invest more into you? That's any company that's publicly traded. So one,
09:53it's explaining that first. And then what does it mean from a data perspective? How are they
09:58leveraging this data? There's a lot of gamification that goes on. A majority of these companies across
10:03the board, not just Rocket, many of these lenders on retail, wholesale, it doesn't matter. Game theory
10:11is a real thing when it comes to what they do. And game theory, for those that don't understand what
10:16it is, it doesn't take ration into consideration. It's just how can I get you to get to where I want you
10:22to go. And it doesn't matter what I put in front of you, as long as it's ethical, obviously,
10:26but I need you to get to a certain place. So I show them things like advertisements that go directly
10:32to clients in retail and how these advertisements work. Like for example, the other day, there was a
10:37large company and they were promoting home equity lines of credit, home equity lines of credit.
10:41Check us out. They're massive. They have a massive budget. And this had 10,000 likes and it had a
10:47ridiculous amount of views and a bunch of shares. Well, what they're actually doing is trying to get you
10:51to come in and then they're going to try and sell you a cash out refinance first before they offer
10:56you a HELOC. And I looked up the data and it was ridiculous. The amount of cash out refinances they
11:01did versus HELOCs was insane. They did way more cash out refinances, yet their marketing was only
11:06for home equity lines of credit. But they teach their salespeople how to do it. And I'm just teaching
11:11people that. So with all these people connecting and collaborating, oh, it's going to be great here.
11:15It's going to be great in that sense for them. And that's totally okay. But when it comes to you,
11:20I need to teach you what you're going up against. And if you don't know how to compete with it,
11:24because I want you to compete. I want you to earn the business. I don't want you attacking people.
11:28No one cares. Your clients don't care. But how can you combat it? You need to understand it first.
11:33And that's what I'm teaching them is how to understand it.
11:35So, you know, we know that the recapture rate for loan originators is terrible.
11:40Yeah.
11:40Like seriously terrible.
11:41So bad.
11:41I've been looking at that rate for like 12 years. I'm like, I don't understand how it can be so bad.
11:47And trigger leads, maybe with the passage of the trigger lead bill, it helps. There's been some
11:52question about like who that helps, right? When it comes to mortgage brokers, what do you think
11:57the advantage is there as far as the relationships that they have? Like how do they combat sort of the
12:03fallout that everybody seems to be seeing?
12:05So, you know, I'm going to be fine saying I don't care. Mortgage brokers coming into this space,
12:10I cannot believe how bad we are at it. We're bad. We're terrible. And when I was in retail,
12:16that was like, that's what we worked. There was a whole division of a thousand loan officers that
12:20just worked past clients, just worked past clients. That's all we did. We'd wake up in the morning,
12:26we'd see it's literally loaded in our system. We'd hit a button and we'd start just calling,
12:30calling, calling. When I talk to mortgage brokers, one of the things they talk about is,
12:34and I love y'all. You know, I love y'all. I'm giving you everything I have and I know you feel
12:38it. But when I talk to them, they have this like moral virtue of, of, ah, it doesn't make sense for
12:44your consumer, but then they don't even call the consumer. It doesn't make, how do you know it
12:48doesn't make sense? Well, I just closed their loan. Well, what if their roof collapsed? What if
12:52their AC unit went out? What if something happened to their house? So we have to teach mortgage brokers
12:57to get over that initial fear of having that conversation. And if they're not going to get over it,
13:02they have to start leveraging AI. It is so important that they do it. But people say,
13:06well, I don't want a robot calling my past clients. Well, then I'm, somebody in retail is going to call
13:11them then. And if that happens, you don't want me on the phone with your past client. I promise you,
13:15you don't. It's just going to be too difficult for them not to work with me. And I don't say that to
13:20be arrogant. I say that because I did it for six and a half years, 12 hours a day, six days a week.
13:25So I understand it like the back of my hand and it would shock people how fast I can write a loan.
13:29It's a skill set. It is. People are trained in. And they have to start understanding that. And
13:34they have to know how it works. And they have to start leveraging AI. If you don't want to do it,
13:38for please, please get AI. Please have somebody call you. Please have somebody stay in front of
13:42your past clients. Because if you don't do it, retail will. You know, so housing wire, we cover the
13:47housing market from the mortgage sense, but also from the real estate side. And I will tell you
13:52that we know so many amazing real estate realtors who have clients who would say they have, oh,
14:00I have a realtor. Even these are the same people who are buying a house every seven years. Why do
14:04they have a realtor, but they don't have a lender? And it's because the realtors have figured out
14:08the good ones. Obviously there's a ton of the best ones have figured out how to stay in that person's
14:13life throughout, throughout their home ownership journey. And I feel like that is, that is something
14:18that loan officers could learn from realtors. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Well,
14:23their marketing's incredible. I have a realtor. He's unreal. You know how long he schedules when
14:29he closes a deal? Do you know how, how, how long he schedules all of the marketing for the consumer?
14:3415 years. He's, he's built out 15 years. It is. And I thought, you know, when someone says that to
14:42you're like, okay, yeah, right? No, he has it. I saw it. I saw it. It was unbelievable how dialed in
14:48the systems were, but he took the time to take a step back and really map it out and make sure that
14:53it was built specific for the client. Each year has a different focus and the outreach is unbelievable.
14:59Some of it's personal from him. Some of it's automated, some of it's AI, some of it's marketing
15:03material, but he's broken it down for 15 years. And I'll tell you right now, I don't have that.
15:07But it's, it's the same client. It's the same borrower who's using that. That's using somebody
15:13to do the loan. Right. So, and you have, you know, 1.4 million realtors, so they have to be
15:19on top of this or they're, I mean, or they're going to be some of the many who don't even do
15:23one loan a year. I mean, one transaction. So anyway, I just think sometimes when I, when I see
15:29what mortgage lenders are doing, I was like, there, there are ways to do this with this client.
15:33I agree with you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. There really is,
15:36but it takes time. And unfortunately, you know, look, being direct to consumer, as long as I was,
15:41it was a lot more transactional. It really is because every day you walk in, it's, it's like
15:45drinking out of a, a fire hydrant. It really is. All right. I didn't get that one. Next, next,
15:51next. And when you're, you know, when at the time it's, you get paid on conditional approval.
15:57You didn't get paid on closings. And a lot of direct to consumer retail companies, that's how they
16:01still pay today. They pay on conditional approval. So why do I have to worry? Right? Like I don't got to be
16:06as meticulous. That was the thought process, but it was also what I was taught. Just get them in.
16:10Our team will take care of it. Get them in. Our team will take care of it. And so we got to also
16:14slow people down and teach them that entire side of things and get them out of that transactional
16:19mindset, especially because we are seeing a lot of retail folks come over to the broker space
16:23and it was done for them on the retail side of things. So to your point, somebody has to build
16:29it. And if it's not going to be the loan officer, because, well, most of us have ADD and can't sit
16:33still for five seconds. What else are you doing? Does your company provide it? Do you know somebody
16:38that can, but if you are shifting, you really have to think about that because you are spot on. If it's
16:43not going to be you, it's going to be somebody else. Well, and I mean, obviously realtors get paid a lot
16:48more for that transaction. And so, you know, you have to look at that. So I was just at MBA and
16:54they talked about profitability first time, first quarter in 10 quarters after 10 quarters of
16:59average negative profitability. They're, you know, now loan officers are making money.
17:04Thank God. I know. Thank God. It's like we finally come out of the woods, but that's still like we have
17:10to figure out ways, you know, people we've shed so many jobs. So from your perspective, how, how do
17:16mortgage brokers, how are they smart with where they spend their time and their money and making
17:21sure that they can be profitable? So look, the first thing I'm going to say is this for loan
17:25officers out there, the ones that tell me you're really busy, first and foremost, I'm going to
17:28challenge you and I'm going to ask you to grab your phone screen time and remove texting and remove
17:33the phone calls. No problem, but look at everything else. So first and foremost, before you tell me you're
17:38busy, I need you to do that first for me and write down how much time you waste. Again, remove text,
17:42remove phone call. That's the first step from there. The second step from there is ask
17:46yourself, do you want to make this a career? Because if you tell me this is a job, I'm probably
17:50not going to be able to help you. And I really believe that. Interesting. Is this a career for
17:55you? I take my job, I take my career very seriously. I, a lot of people get compensated like, like
18:01surgeons, like doctors, you know, some of them, you know how much money's in this industry. So I want
18:06to also showcase some of that to our community. Hey, look at what you can build if you stay focused
18:12today. And I've made my mistakes, but don't take my five years of mistakes. Let me help
18:16you cut it down to two and a half years, whatever the case might be. So when you say, where do
18:20you spend your money? What should you be doing? Reinvest in your past clients. I cannot stress
18:25it enough because with the trigger bill to your point, look from a consumer standpoint, it's
18:31amazing. Those calls are brutal. Uh, you know, we, we have, um, we have to get our credits
18:36pulled obviously as owners. And when we're signing up with lenders, whatever it is, it hit me
18:40one time. I was like, this is, this is wild. Right. And my company used to work triggers.
18:44That was part of the whole situation with me when I first started. So I understand it.
18:48But with the bill and how great it is for consumers, there's also going to be the fact
18:52that the, the servicers now have a lot more access to these consumers than you will.
18:58Because if you're wholesale, it goes to a servicing company. If it gets sold off, it follows the
19:03rules and that's okay. That's completely okay. But if you're not reinvesting, you will lose
19:07that client because you're not better than the servicer. The servicer sees when they make
19:11payments, the servicer sees that they make payments late. The servicer sees if they've
19:15gained equity in their house faster than you can see it. The servicer can even add a soft
19:19credit check every month for that consumer. And they can see if they're updating what they're
19:24doing, how they're paying their bills. Servicers have so much control and there's nothing wrong
19:29with that. They should, because they're the ones taking the risk. If we look at it from a
19:33business aspect, they take the risk. It's their money that you're using. That's what
19:38it is. Don't be mad at them. They're protecting their asset. So be cautious where you send
19:43your business. That doesn't mean, that doesn't take anybody out of the equation. If you're
19:47going to send business to Rocket, to UWM, to Windsor, to EPM, I don't care, but just understand
19:53the risks of where you send your loan to. And that's what you have to be cognizant of. So
19:58where to spend your money is on teaching, learning, understanding how it works in the secondary
20:03markets, understanding how servicing works. And the second piece of it is spending it
20:07on your current book of business. How can you stay in front of these people? It'll be
20:10worth every dollar you put into it. Absolutely. With all of the challenges
20:16that we're facing, if you just look at affordability, right, for consumers, if you look at, you know,
20:20some of the other things happening, what makes you optimistic about Brokers' future?
20:26One, probably my personality. I've just been like that since I was a kid. I just, I don't know,
20:31I always feel like there's opportunity everywhere. It's all about how you frame it to a consumer and
20:35it's all about your mindset and what you believe in. So that's more of a personal philosophy than
20:40anything else. And I know that doesn't work for everybody, which is totally okay. But the optimism
20:44for me, people want houses. They do. And they say real estate makes, you know, you become a
20:51millionaire. No, you don't. The average person that owns a home roughly is about 38X higher net worth
20:58than somebody that rents. So it's roughly about 200 and I think $86,000 that it makes,
21:03not millions of dollars. Like some people say, it's not true at all. So that's what I talk about
21:07to consumers. People want houses. People want to grow generational wealth. I come first generation,
21:13Middle Eastern. We, my family didn't know, knew nothing about mortgages until I got into the
21:17industry. And I, I figured it out. Oh wait, this is how this actually works. Oh guys, I understand
21:21this better now. So I'm the one having conversations with my family. I'm helping people get into houses.
21:26I'm having, you really think I can get a home? Oh my gosh, I, I know how to do it. Here's how much
21:30money you have to save. Here's how you can save that money. Here's what you can do. And so that's
21:34where my optimism comes from because when I talk to people about owning a home, their faces light
21:39up. And especially the ones that say, it's just not for me. Those are my favorite people to talk
21:43to because I didn't think it was for me either. And I'm all, let me, let me show you how it is for
21:47you. And then I walk through their situations with them. Here's, here's something I challenge loan
21:51officers to do. When your client says, ah, I'm not sure if I'm ready, ask them to send you bank
21:55statements and then keep them on the phone, share your screen with them and go through their Starbucks
22:00orders, go through their gas station orders, go through their seven 11 orders. Everybody nickel
22:05and dimes themselves because we live in a consumeristic society. I don't even know if that's
22:08a word, but it's okay. But that's the society we live in. So walk them through, be real with them,
22:13show them where they're losing money. That's money they can save. That's money they can set aside.
22:18That's money that adds up. I'm passionate about it because it affected my family.
22:22And it's not long ago. My dad wasn't born here. My mom wasn't born here. That's not a hundred years
22:26ago. That's recent for me. I was born in 1991. I'm the first person born in this country. So I take
22:32it very seriously when I talk to people about the American dream and what it actually means.
22:36So yes, my optimism, I can't help myself, but I'm not going to stop it because I know people want to
22:41own a home. Yes, it's slightly more expensive right now, but rates will come down. Then the last piece of
22:46it, sell adjustable rate mortgages. I have one on my house. I have one on my house personally,
22:51and you have to learn that product. Most of those are petrified of adjustable rate mortgages
22:55because the clients say 2008, 2008, learn the product and teach consumers about it.
23:00I love that. We've been seeing an uptick and obviously in arms and also people willing to
23:06think about it. Like you said, I think it's really interesting that you with everything you know
23:10and all your connections has an arm. It makes sense to me. It can be a really good financial
23:15decision. Yes. These are not the arms of 2008. You can't even get qualified. No. I mean,
23:19you have to qualify for the higher rate. Yes. Depending on the one you pick, but yes,
23:23you are correct. And that's, but people are like, well, I don't want to have the conversation with
23:27the client. And that's why I'm going to beat you because you're selling a 30 year fixed. And the
23:31second they get on the phone with me, I say, Hey, are you open to suggestions from a professional
23:35that's been doing this for over a decade? Yeah. Yes, I am. Who's going to say no to that?
23:41Right. And then I walk them through the conversation. Hey, initially your reaction
23:45is going to be a little timid because I'm sure you've heard negative things about this,
23:50but do I have your word that you'll let me go through this and I'll answer all your questions
23:53at the end? Every time the clients say, you know what? Okay. And then I get my opportunity
23:58and they ask questions and I have that conversation, but LOs don't want that 30 minutes to spend.
24:04Oh, what if they say no? They say no, no problem. We'll just go ahead with a 30 year fixed
24:09then. But even if they still don't want the arm, they're going to be more than likely willing to
24:14use me for the 30 year fixed because you didn't even take the time to explain that to them.
24:17That's been what I found and seen. And that's what I teach and coach to my people.
24:21Really seems like you are all about education and what you, you know, that whole idea of a mortgage
24:27advisor, not just a loan officer. Yes. It's, it's, you know, it's being a, you ever watch the movie
24:31Matilda? Yeah. So for those that don't know, Matilda, she is this young, young lady,
24:38and she has this unique special gift where she ends up finding out when she's about 10 or 11 years
24:42old, she can move things with her mind. But unfortunately she has parents that are awful
24:47and her dad played by Danny DeVito. He's this used car salesman. And I mean, the sleaziest of car
24:53salesmen, patching things on, knowing the car's not going to work, but selling it anyway. And so what I
24:58talk to people about right now is I'm done with this Matilda's dad, negative connotation of sales.
25:04I'm done with it. Being a great salesperson means you're a great and effective communicator.
25:10It's not about being an advisor. It's about being a great communicator and having ethics,
25:14having morals, having transparency. So yes, I love the education, but I love learning the
25:19communication even more because that's what people appreciate. The better you are at communicating,
25:24the more people will be willing to listen to you. Because when I go into a conversation,
25:28I don't go into a conversation wanting to be right. I go into a conversation wanting to educate,
25:33but so many people want to go in and tell clients you're wrong. That's not how it works.
25:37There's no way they can do that for you. Stop doing that. Learn to communicate better. Get rid of
25:42this whole negative connotation around sales and start becoming a better communicator.
25:46Jonathan, I really appreciate you sitting down today. We're at the end of our time,
25:49but really enjoyed this conversation. We'll be keeping up with you, of course,
25:53and see how you guys are growing and just want to say thanks.
25:56Thank you as always.
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