- 6 months ago
The top focus of this episode of News Today is the trade tensions between the United States and India, following Donald Trump's 50 per cent tariffs on Indian goods for buying Russian oil.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your prime time destination. News, newsmakers, talking points.
00:07And we've got plenty ahead this Friday night, ahead of the weekend.
00:10How should India be tackling Trump's tariff war? Among my special guests tonight, Shashi Tharoor will tell us where he stands on the Trump versus Modi government battle.
00:23My other guests include Montague Singh Aluwalya. Is this India's 1991 moment? Can we turn crisis into opportunity?
00:33Also, our continuing focus, Rahul Gandhi's atom bomb. India Today's reality check from Bengaluru. Is Rahul Gandhi's claims valid or not?
00:44We've got plenty on the show tonight. But first, as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines at Nine.
00:50Donald Trump remarks that talks with India now only after the tariff issue is resolved causes confusion.
01:01Commerce Minister Piyush Goyal tells India Today, India is in talks with more nations and new markets.
01:10Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks to Prime Minister Modi, briefs him on developments in Ukraine.
01:16India and Russia reaffirms stronger strategic ties. Russian President likely to visit India later in the year.
01:26Rahul Gandhi versus EC face-off continues. Rahul accuses the EC of choreographic elections.
01:33Pole body hits out at him, asks him to either prove claim or issue an apology.
01:38Rahul says it's for the EC to investigate his charges.
01:41M.K. Stalin unveils Tamil Nadu's alternative to a national education policy.
01:51Rolls out a two-language policy where big push for science, AI and English.
02:00Income Tax Bill 2025 is withdrawn.
02:04New version to be introduced now on Monday in Parliament.
02:08New bill expected to simplify old tax structures and cut down legal confusion.
02:16Uttarkashi rescue operations continue.
02:19Over 500 move to safety.
02:20Satellite images show 70% buildings demolished in Dharali village in the flood fury.
02:26Center opposes lowering age of consent to 16, cites risk of trafficking and abuse.
02:35Hearing on plea challenging criminalization of consensual adolescent relationships in the Supreme Court.
02:44Israel's Gaza City plan sparks global condemnation over more possible destruction.
02:51Germany halts military exports. UK warns Netanyahu against taking over Gaza.
02:56And oil marketing firms to get 30,000 rupees, 30,000 crores compensation for cooking gas losses.
03:06This is your name's to protect consumers from changes in global LPG prices.
03:10The story that we are breaking tonight right at the very top.
03:24Prime Minister Narendra Modi earlier this evening has spoken with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
03:30President Putin has briefed the Prime Minister on nature's developments concerning Ukraine.
03:35The Prime Minister has reiterated India's consistent position for a peaceful resolution to the conflict.
03:41Both leaders reaffirmed their commitment to further deepen the Indian-Russian special and privileged strategic partnership.
03:47The Prime Minister inviting President Putin to visit India later this year for the annual bilateral summit.
03:54So that meeting, remember, is coming against the backdrop of the pressure that Donald Trump has put on India saying he's escalating tariffs or punitive tariffs because of India's decision to import oil, cheap oil from Russia.
04:10So, even as Vladimir Putin speaks to Prime Minister Modi, remember, you've got America putting pressure on India to downscale its economic relationship with Russia at the moment.
04:26Our diplomatic affairs editor, Geetha Mohan joins me.
04:30Geetha, is there messaging in all of this that somewhere while President Trump puts pressure on India to reduce dependence on oil from Russia,
04:41you've got Ajit Goval in Moscow, the Prime Minister, speaking to President Putin.
04:46Well, of course there's messaging over here.
04:49They are looking at showing that India is firm on its position of engaging Russia.
04:55And India has never wavered on that, whether it's this administration or the past administrations.
05:01We've always found our way into wavers, into cutouts, into ensuring that our cooperation with Russia does not really move.
05:09But also remember, Rashid, this comes at a time when maybe a week from now, Putin will be meeting Trump.
05:15So, while Putin meets Trump, D.C. cannot call up New Delhi and say, why is Prime Minister Modi engaging or speaking with President Putin?
05:26Of course, Ajit Goval, National Security Advisor, is in Moscow preparing for the very same annual visit that is going to take place and that Prime Minister Modi has invited President Putin for later this year.
05:39The more important messaging is also the fact that we'll also be going to China.
05:42But that is also something that's important for India to be engaged and a part of the SCO, where Russia and China are important member countries.
05:53So, important messaging.
05:54But remember, there's engagement between D.C. and Moscow now.
05:59And there is going to be a meeting between Trump and Putin as well.
06:02Geetha Mohan joining me at the top of the bulletin.
06:04I appreciate your joining us there.
06:06Okay, remember, this is the week which has seen U.S. President Donald Trump make all the headlines, imposing an additional tariff.
06:13Many believe it's punitive sanctions of 25% on India for continuing trading, particularly in oil with Russia.
06:20How should India be responding to this tariff war launched by Trump?
06:24I spoke earlier today with Dr. Shashi Tharoor, Congress leader who heads the Parliamentary Committee on External Affairs.
06:32Shashi Tharoor is described Donald Trump's comments, especially calling India a dead economy, as an insult by a bully.
06:42Listen in to the full interview.
06:43Shashi Tharoor, Senior Congress MP and Chairperson of the Standing Committee on External Affairs.
06:58Appreciate your joining us, Dr. Tharoor.
07:00You've taken a very strong stand on what America has done.
07:03You seem to suggest that if the United States puts 50% tariffs on India, India should retaliate with equal tariffs on the United States.
07:12Do you want to explain your position, Dr. Tharoor?
07:15Well, I mean, Mr. Trump likes to speak about reciprocal tariffs.
07:19That is reciprocity.
07:20So if indeed on the 27th of August, 50% kicks in, I see absolutely no reason why India should not insist on reciprocity.
07:32That's the principle that's involved.
07:34But that's a subsidiary point, Radhi.
07:37There's still three weeks to go almost.
07:39And we need to put those three weeks to good use by negotiating effectively, which I believe our negotiators are going to do.
07:46But we'll have to do this, obviously, with a certain amount of, shall we put it bluntly, a certain amount of resolve that, if necessary, we're going to have to walk away.
07:57We are simply far too proud and independent a country to be allowing ourselves to be subject to being browbeaten or bullied by anybody.
08:05And as far as I'm concerned, these may be merely idiosyncratic negotiating tactics.
08:11You all know that Mr. Trump has a reputation for clinching deals in somewhat unusual ways.
08:18And this may merely be a way of putting pressure on us.
08:22But nonetheless, the way it was done was demeaning and belittling with the kind of language used.
08:28Secondly, it was unfair because now we have even China, which buys far more oil and gas and has a far bigger trade relationship with the Russians.
08:39China is going to be at 30 percent on the 27th of August, and we are going to be at 50 percent.
08:46So, I mean, it's just completely upending the entire notion of a strategic relationship with India versus a competitive rivalry with China.
08:56To my mind, if Mr. Trump can cast us so lightly to the winds, then we do have some serious rethinking to do as a country.
09:05There are two parts from what you've said that I want to come to one by one.
09:13The first is you seem to suggest retaliatory tariffs as a way to sort of look up and stand up to the bully.
09:20Now, I've spoken to a number of economists who are saying we don't need to get into a tariff war.
09:25Let's keep the temperature down.
09:27Let's cool things down.
09:29Do you agree that that could be one way to do things?
09:32Because the moment you get into retaliatory tariffs, then you're getting into a tariff war that can spiral out of control.
09:39So, that's the first part that I want to ask you.
09:41Radheem, okay.
09:42So, on that, let me say, first of all, I'm not suggesting any immediate reaction.
09:46I'm not even suggesting that we should immediately announce anything.
09:49All I'm saying is that when the 27th of August comes, if we are literally one of two countries on the entire planet that's paying 50%, you can be pretty sure that the bottom is going to drop out of our exports to America anyway.
10:04Because how many people who are importing Indian goods in America are going to be prepared to pay a 50% premium when our competitors, including Vietnam, Indonesia, even Pakistan and Bangladesh are 20% or lower, 19% in some cases, 15% in some.
10:22So, why would anyone buy anything from India at that point if we are at 50?
10:26So, in any case, at that point, I think we should make it very clear that if you do this to us, we will do it to you.
10:35If we don't, we are essentially, what is the point of being cool when you've got a 50% tariff on you?
10:44The second part of what you're saying is that you seem to suggest it's time to expose U.S. double standards.
10:50Here is a country which is allowing China to import twice the amount of oil that we do from Russia.
10:57EU and the United States continues to trade with Russia and different products, but different standards are being imposed on us.
11:04So, in a way, what you're also saying, the time has come to call out U.S. or Trumpian double standards. Am I correct?
11:11Well, absolutely. China is not the only one, by the way.
11:14The EU also buys, as you mentioned, but more important, even America, when their national interests are involved, they buy from Russia.
11:22You know what they're buying?
11:23They're buying very significant quantities of fertilizers.
11:28In the five months, from January to May of 2025, they have actually bought $806 million, which you can multiply that and add it to, if that's five months, and in 12 months, we're easily looking at $1.8 billion or so, minimum, maybe close to $2 billion.
11:46Uranium, which is something they get from Russia, they've got 28% increase since last year in their uranium imports from Russia.
11:55Palladium, which is used in catalytic converters, their palladium imports last year were about almost $1 billion, $878 million.
12:05And then they're buying other small things, aircraft, engine parts, and chemicals, and God knows, industrial machinery, wood products.
12:11It's not that the Americans will deny themselves the right to buy from Russia.
12:16Now, how can Mr. Trump argue that our dollars are fueling the Russian war machine, but American dollars that they are spending in Russia are not fueling the Russian war machine?
12:26Isn't this errant hypocrisy?
12:29Isn't this completely unfair and unjustified?
12:32So from my point of view, we really do need to point out that there is something completely wrong here.
12:38It may simply be, as I said, a question of Mr. Trump's negotiating style.
12:43He may actually be hoping that we will blink first.
12:46But he has certainly tried the wrong sort of language with a country that for 200 years groaned under the colonial yoke.
12:55We are simply not going to accept being dictated to, Radhi.
12:58Even if our government wanted to do it, I can assure you, public opinion in this country, in parliament, in the opposition,
13:05will all stand up unitedly saying that our self-respect is more important than an American market.
13:11So I think this is something that the Americans have always understood in the past.
13:17Previous Indian governments were treated with a great deal of respect by previous American presidents.
13:22This kind of disrespectful, belittling, demeaning language is not something which I'm afraid we will take kindly to in this country.
13:32Now, I'm not saying that we should be heated.
13:34As you've seen, I'm not being heated in my response.
13:37I'm just telling you, let us be absolutely conscious that we have a three-week window.
13:42But at the end of that, if this unfairness persists, we have absolutely no reason not to walk away and look at other horizons.
13:51It will hurt in the short term.
13:53There will be some items, very, very few, which even despite 50% tariffs, they may still want to purchase from us.
14:01But everything else that has actually got 50% on it, you can be certain that the market for those items in America will dry up.
14:08We will have to find other markets.
14:10Who knows? Maybe there will be an enterprising UK producer who will import items from India, repackage them as made in UK and resell them to America.
14:20Then somebody will do a thriving business the way in which people in Dubai are sending Indian goods to Pakistan that way.
14:26That may happen now.
14:27We may have a black market going on through other countries.
14:29With the UK, we have zero tariffs on 99% of our goods.
14:33So maybe that could be something that somebody in UK could start doing.
14:36I don't know.
14:40But do you think, Dr. Tharoor, you mentioned the kind of deplorable language used by Donald Trump.
14:47Are you, in a way, taken aback?
14:49Have we misread Donald Trump, particularly Trump 2.0?
14:53You know, we put our hands for friendship.
14:55The Prime Minister invested a lot of his personal equity.
14:58Aap ki baar tham sarkar, namaste Trump, howdy Modi.
15:03And at the end of the day, what do we get?
15:05The U.S. president calls India a dead economy, threatens us with these punitive tariffs.
15:12Are you, in a way, surprised?
15:15Have we been caught by surprise?
15:17Or have we misread Donald Trump 2.0 in particular?
15:21Look, on the dead economy comment, I really think it's nothing more than the equivalent of a schoolyard bully telling a smaller child, your mother is ugly.
15:29He may not even have seen the mother.
15:31It's not meant to be taken literally.
15:33It's meant to be a way of basically insulting the other person.
15:37The idea is for the other person to feel taken aback and thereby to be at a weaker position, in this case, in a schoolyard bully, but in this other case, in a diplomatic negotiation.
15:50Mr. Trump is famous for his unconventional techniques.
15:53When Larry King asked him about his negotiating style in a famous interview, Radeep, Trump replied by saying,
16:00Do you mind if I move my chair away from you?
16:01You have terrible breath coming out of your mouth.
16:04Do you realize that?
16:04Have people told you that?
16:05Larry King was shattered, his face fell, and then Trump dominated the interview, got all his messages across.
16:12And in the end, when he got up and the cameras were switched off, he said to Larry King, you want to see my negotiating style?
16:17I just showed you.
16:18That was the Donald Trump, I beg your pardon, of the art of the deal.
16:23So he will say and do anything to make a deal that he wants.
16:26But he may have picked the wrong target for insulting language.
16:30But do you think, as you mentioned, there needs to be a consensus, a political consensus on how to deal with Trump?
16:41When Trump called India a dead economy, the Congress leadership, certainly Rahul Gandhi, sort of said, yes, Trump is right.
16:47We are a dead economy.
16:48Do you believe that we need to be more careful in our choice of words?
16:52We cannot echo what Donald Trump says.
16:54Does there need to be, therefore, a political consensus on taking on Donald Trump and calling him out in the manner that you are on this show at the moment?
17:02Rajiv, I speak honestly for myself.
17:05I'm not an official spokesman of my party, and I don't want you to get me wrong.
17:09I'm really not pretending to speak for anybody else but myself.
17:12You ask me my personal opinion.
17:14You're getting it.
17:15I believe in what I say.
17:17It's as simple as that.
17:18And as far as I'm concerned, I don't believe that it is right for Mr. Trump to speak to India in this way.
17:25Whoever is in the Indian government, whichever party is in power,
17:28our self-respect is simply not up for bargaining.
17:32I'm sorry.
17:33It's as simple as that.
17:34And as far as the substance is concerned, by all means, keep a cool head.
17:39By all means, negotiate over the next three weeks with SubmitSense.
17:42Try and explain to the Americans why we have certain red lines.
17:46We have 700 million people in our country who are dependent on agriculture.
17:50We cannot sell them down the river with subsidized American grains flooding our market.
17:55There are other areas where we might be able to show some flexibility and some give.
18:00I think we may not be needing to resist a number of American items where, in any case,
18:05only a small percentage of Indian consumers can afford to buy them,
18:09just like we gave in during Trump 1.0 on Harley-Davidson motorcycles,
18:14because Trump made an issue of that.
18:17I mean, after all, they went from selling, God knows, 83 motorcycles in India per year
18:21to about 280 motorcycles instead after we lowered the tariffs.
18:26It doesn't hurt anybody.
18:27We didn't need to impose heavy tariffs on Harley-Davidson's
18:30because it's a very small elite segment that can afford them.
18:34So like that, there may be things we can give in on
18:36to show the Americans we're making concessions,
18:39but which will not hurt the vast majority of Indians
18:42because the vast majority of Indians will not be buying those American items.
18:46To my mind, that kind of negotiation we should be doing.
18:50But when it comes to fundamentals,
18:53there are interests that any government would have.
18:57Frankly, whether it is Mr. Modi or tomorrow Mr. Gandhi,
19:01no one is going to sell our farmers down the river.
19:03There is a consensus that we are living with an agricultural economy
19:08on which a substantial percentage of our population is still dependent.
19:12We have a certain political responsibility towards them.
19:15No government can afford to abandon that.
19:20So in a sense, you're endorsing the red line
19:24that Prime Minister Modi and his government has drawn.
19:26The Prime Minister has also very clearly said,
19:29no compromise when it comes to agriculture.
19:32We will be there to defend our farmers' interests,
19:35even if it means taking tough choices.
19:37Yes, I mean, the truth is that on these matters,
19:41I think most Indian governments have recognized some of our vulnerabilities
19:44and agriculture, because so many farmers are living very, very close to breakpoint.
19:51You know that we have farmer suicides every year.
19:54When harvests fail and they are unable to pay their debts,
19:57many farmers take their lives.
19:59These are not people you can suddenly impose phenomenal competition
20:04from subsidized, mass-produced grain.
20:07And that's just one example, but it's an example of the fact
20:11that in every democracy, people have red lines
20:15that reflect the domestic interests of their country.
20:17America has red lines that reflect the political power
20:20of certain interest groups and certain lobbies.
20:23Any American negotiator will understand that if it's properly explained.
20:27So I wish our negotiators luck in explaining some of these things
20:30and persuading their own government
20:32that we are really offering the best deal that we can offer.
20:39My final question to you,
20:41we've seen Donald Trump on the ceasefire,
20:44Shashi Tharu try and claim credit not once, twice,
20:47but 29, 30 times and counting,
20:49saying he was responsible for an Indo-Park ceasefire
20:52on Operation Sindhu.
20:54Now we've seen the manner in which he's sort of
20:56taking on India, calling us a dead economy.
20:59In your view, have we dealt with Donald Trump the wrong way?
21:07How would you have dealt with someone like Donald Trump
21:10who either seems to like flattery in some form
21:13or else, as you're suggesting, confront him?
21:17What is the ideal way?
21:18If you were advising the prime minister or the diplomats
21:22who are negotiating with Donald Trump,
21:25how does one deal with someone like a Donald Trump?
21:28Have you ever seen anything like this in your long career
21:30in public life?
21:32No, I don't think anyone has seen quite a political leader.
21:36You'll have to ask Melania Trump, I think,
21:38how she deals with the Donald.
21:41But let me just say, Razeeb, that as far as Mr. Trump's claims
21:50about the ceasefire were concerned,
21:52my assumption is that he must have lent heavily on the Pakistanis.
21:56And we should have probably given him credit for that.
21:59You know, we didn't need persuading and he didn't call us
22:02because we didn't, we signaled from day one
22:04that if the Pakistanis hit, we hit.
22:06If they stop, we stop.
22:07That was always the approach that the Congress,
22:10beg your pardon, that the government of India took consistently.
22:14And therefore, we didn't need persuading.
22:16But the Pakistanis may have been trying to explore all options
22:20of hitting India, especially after we hit their 11 air bases
22:23on the night of the 9th, 10th.
22:25Maybe the Americans lent heavily on the Pakistanis.
22:28So we could have given him credit for that and said,
22:30you know, your contribution in getting the Pakistanis
22:34to sue for peace, we really appreciate.
22:36That was a very nice gesture.
22:37Something like that to flatter him, I don't know.
22:40But I mean, that perhaps would have been enough to modify him
22:44because certainly he did not persuade us.
22:46And I think the prime minister is right in clarifying
22:49to the Indian public that he didn't get any call
22:53or any pressure from the Americans.
22:54He didn't need it either.
22:55But the Pakistanis may well have done.
22:58And that may be why the Pakistanis are following over backwards
23:01to express their gratitude to America
23:05for having given them the face saving
23:07out of our brokered peace.
23:13Okay.
23:14Shashi Tharoor, for speaking your mind
23:16and speaking so plainly,
23:18I wonder what would be your first line?
23:21What would be a Tharoorism if you met Donald Trump tomorrow morning?
23:25You have a Tharoorism to give us?
23:27What would you tell Donald Trump?
23:30I'll tell you after it happens, Rajdeep.
23:33Take care.
23:34Thanks very much.
23:35Yeah, but we may, you know,
23:40we may well need you at some stage
23:42to send out Donald Trump
23:45the kind of message that you've sent on this show tonight.
23:48But I appreciate Shashi Tharoor
23:50you joining me here on the show.
23:52Thank you so much.
23:53Shashi Tharoor there,
23:57speaking rather plainly
23:58and wanting a tough line on Donald Trump.
24:01The government still hasn't used, though,
24:03the T word,
24:04which is why all eyes were on Commerce Minister Piyush Goyal,
24:07who was at the business today,
24:08India at 100 conclave.
24:11The minister, though,
24:11stayed away from the Trump question,
24:14instead claimed India's exports this year
24:16will be more than the previous year.
24:18A reassuring statement
24:20amidst the continuing economic uncertainty.
24:24Here are excerpts from Piyush Goyal
24:26at the business today conclave.
24:28How do you think we as a nation
24:31will deal with this challenge of deglobalization
24:35and how the trade order is being completely dismantled?
24:39And what do you think is the playbook going to be?
24:42How are you going to tackle this,
24:44including these penal tariffs on India imposed by the US?
24:47I don't see any deglobalization.
24:50I see countries restructuring
24:54their trade routes and their trade partners.
24:59And I'm quite confident this year
25:02India will do more exports than we did last year.
25:07And you already have mitigated,
25:08you know, all factors put in place.
25:10BRICS become stronger?
25:12Well, I think these are questions
25:14you should ask the Honorable Foreign Minister.
25:18But I can only talk about trade and commerce.
25:23India's exports in the current year
25:25will be more than they were last year.
25:29I think in the last one year
25:32you must have maybe had conversations
25:35with two dozen countries for global trade or more.
25:38So, if I were to ask you by 2030, 2035 or 2047,
25:44what would be the shape of India's engagement
25:46with the global trading blocs
25:49and how many free trade agreements would we have?
25:52Just one quick point.
25:53You have made it clear to us
25:54how the previous round of free trade agreements
25:57was with economies that we're still developing
25:59and how you are now pursuing a developed strategy.
26:02Can you give us that overview?
26:03Well, I think India today is much stronger,
26:08much more self-confident,
26:11much more respected.
26:13We have a decisive leader.
26:15Prime Minister Narendra Modi is
26:16amongst the tallest leaders in the world,
26:20most respected.
26:21We have today a country
26:23which produces the highest number
26:26of STEM graduates every year.
26:28We have a country
26:29which is already growing at 6.5% a year,
26:35which will only get better in the years to come.
26:39We will, of course,
26:40have trading arrangements with other nations
26:43with whom we have complementarity
26:47rather than doing trade agreements
26:49with countries as was done by the UPA,
26:52which really didn't help Indian business
26:54as much as it should have.
26:56Whereas on the contrary,
26:57if you see our trade agreements,
27:00even business today and India today
27:02could not find fault with it
27:04despite your best efforts.
27:06So, UAE, Mauritius, Australia,
27:14the four-nation EFTA bloc,
27:17Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein,
27:20and Iceland,
27:22UK.
27:23We are in dialogue with many other countries,
27:26Oman,
27:27EU,
27:30US,
27:32Chile,
27:33Peru,
27:35many others,
27:36New Zealand,
27:37many others want to start engaging with India.
27:41So, today,
27:41the world recognizes the strengths of India,
27:45recognizes our demographic advantages,
27:49recognizes what 1.4 billion aspirational Indians
27:53Indians bring to the table as demand
27:56and aggregate demand that India has
27:59is a huge market.
28:01Why else do you think everybody is vying up
28:03to do trade
28:04or have better market access in India?
28:08Minister, sounding positive there.
28:10Now, one of the challenges
28:12with the Trump tariffs, sir,
28:14has been,
28:14could this be India's 1991 moment
28:18where India turns a potential crisis
28:20or at least a challenge
28:21into an opportunity?
28:23Now, someone who knows a thing or two
28:25about 1991
28:26was Dr. Montek Singh Aluwalia,
28:28the former Deputy Chairman
28:29of the Planning Commission,
28:31a key member
28:31of the Manmohan Singh-Narsima Rao team
28:33that unleashed those reforms.
28:35With the tariff war raging,
28:37can India use this crisis
28:39as an opportunity
28:41is the question I posed
28:43to Dr. Aluwalia
28:44at the Business Today Summit.
28:46Listen in.
28:51Dr. Aluwalia,
28:53let me start with
28:54what a number of political
28:55and economic commentators
28:57are calling
28:582025
28:59and the tariff war
29:01with the United States
29:03as a potential
29:05crisis
29:05crisis
29:06that could also
29:07create opportunities
29:09much like 1991.
29:11Is there any parallel
29:13at all
29:13between what happened
29:14in 1991
29:15when a balance of payments
29:17and a foreign exchange crisis
29:18forced us into reform
29:20and what we are now facing
29:22in 2025
29:23with economic uncertainty
29:25and these tariff battles?
29:28Well, thanks, Rajdeep.
29:30Nice to...
29:31I feel a bit like a Christian
29:32being thrown before the lions,
29:34having you on the other side.
29:36Look,
29:37every crisis creates
29:38an opportunity.
29:40I mean,
29:40simply because
29:41you face a difficult situation,
29:43you dust up
29:44whatever you think
29:45you needed to do
29:46and it increases
29:48the urgency of doing it.
29:50This is not the same thing
29:51as saying
29:52it's a good thing
29:53that President Trump
29:54has done what he has done
29:56because, quite honestly,
29:57all these things
29:58were necessary for us
30:00if we wanted to achieve
30:02the objective
30:03of Viksit Bharat
30:04because we've been growing
30:05for the last 20, 30 years,
30:0720 years at least,
30:08at about 6.5%,
30:10give or take a little bit.
30:12And the objective
30:13that we had set
30:14requires us to grow
30:15on an average
30:16up to 2047,
30:18somewhere around
30:198.5%.
30:20And in order to do that
30:22over this long period,
30:24you must allow
30:25for some slowing down
30:26in the process.
30:28So the reference rate,
30:29maybe for the next
30:305 or 10 years,
30:31should be closer
30:32to 9%.
30:33So in that sense,
30:35being at 6.5%
30:37and having to get
30:39to 9%,
30:40even if you didn't have
30:42the Trump tariffs,
30:43was a challenge.
30:45What this has done,
30:46of course,
30:46is it's avoided
30:48the, it got rid
30:50of the comfort
30:50that we're moving along
30:52at 7.6 and a half
30:53and, you know,
30:54we need to do something.
30:56It's different,
30:57in my view,
30:58from 1991
30:59because although
31:00in a deep sense,
31:021991 was a very
31:03immediate crisis
31:05because we just
31:06ran out of
31:07foreign exchange reserves
31:08because we hadn't
31:09taken corrective steps
31:11for the previous
31:12year and a half.
31:13So we just couldn't
31:15have carried on
31:15doing what we were doing.
31:17Nobody was willing
31:17to lend to us.
31:18We're not in
31:19that situation now.
31:20I mean,
31:20the reserves are there
31:21and if we don't
31:22do anything,
31:23growth rate will come down.
31:26It won't be exactly
31:27the same as running
31:28out of money,
31:29how to pay
31:29your import bill tomorrow.
31:31But it is important,
31:32in an important sense,
31:33it is a crisis
31:34because the 6.5%
31:36wasn't good enough.
31:38It wasn't generating
31:39the employment we need
31:41and if we don't
31:42generate that employment,
31:44the internal tensions
31:45will increase.
31:46That's point number one.
31:47Point number two
31:48is that the world
31:50has become totally
31:51different from 1991.
31:53See, 1991,
31:55that was a high point
31:56of successful globalization.
31:59We were the odd guys out.
32:01I mean,
32:01I wrote a piece
32:03at that time
32:03internally for the government
32:05and I said,
32:05look,
32:06everybody else
32:07is doing this.
32:08We're the only ones
32:09that are not.
32:09It was easy to prove
32:11that we are doing
32:12the wrong thing
32:13because we weren't
32:13doing well.
32:14today the problem
32:16is that it's not clear
32:18how the world
32:19is going to move.
32:20It's not a world
32:21in which everybody
32:22is talking the same language.
32:24So the problem
32:25becomes more complex.
32:26How do you decide
32:27what is the right thing
32:29to do?
32:29And then there are
32:30two other complications
32:31which you need
32:32to keep in mind.
32:33One, technology.
32:35I mean,
32:36technology is changing
32:37much more rapidly.
32:40Technology has always changed
32:41but earlier
32:43the change in technology
32:44took maybe a decade
32:45or so to take effect.
32:47Today,
32:48I mean,
32:48chat GPT
32:49in about another year
32:50will be increasing
32:53its capacity
32:53by a magnitude
32:55or two.
32:56So the rate of change
32:57of this technology
32:58is huge
32:59and how are we going
33:00to react?
33:00What will it do
33:01for us?
33:02And the last one
33:03is climate change.
33:04We're not operating
33:05in a world
33:06in which the climate
33:07is going to be
33:08the same thing.
33:09That introduces
33:10new urgency.
33:11So quite frankly,
33:12it's not just Mr. Trump
33:14although obviously
33:16he's drawing
33:16all the public attention
33:18but yes,
33:19we have a crisis situation
33:20and we need to
33:21take a good look
33:23at what our priorities
33:24should be
33:25in this situation.
33:27Whether we use
33:28the word crisis,
33:29maybe we should then
33:30use the word challenge.
33:32Our challenge is
33:33how do we move
33:34from 6.5% growth rate
33:36to 8.5%.
33:38Are you therefore
33:39saying that
33:41our preoccupation
33:42shouldn't be
33:43with what Donald Trump
33:44does or does not do
33:45with tariffs?
33:46Our preoccupation
33:47is to get
33:48our own act
33:49together here
33:50to ensure
33:51that our manufacturing
33:52becomes competitive
33:53enough
33:54that our growth rates
33:56are sustainable
33:56at an 8.5%
33:59which may provide
34:00more jobs
34:00which may perhaps
34:02make us
34:02far more competitive
34:04in an increasingly
34:06uncertain global economy?
34:08Well, let me comment
34:10on these areas.
34:13One, it's very clear
34:14that what
34:15President Trump
34:17has done
34:17is upended
34:18the existing
34:20if you like
34:21rule-based trading system.
34:23There's no way
34:24of disagreeing
34:25with that.
34:25He's done it.
34:26Now, obviously
34:27he's done it
34:28because he thinks
34:29this is going
34:30to be good
34:30for the U.S.
34:32Most respectable
34:33economists
34:34around the world
34:34don't.
34:36In fact,
34:36they think
34:36what he's done
34:37will actually
34:38not make
34:39America great again.
34:41It'll actually
34:42fragment
34:42America's capacity.
34:44Unfortunately,
34:45at the moment
34:46it doesn't look
34:47like that
34:47because, you know,
34:48inflation seems
34:49to be under control.
34:51Growth in the U.S.
34:52also doesn't seem
34:53to be that much
34:54affected.
34:55But most people
34:56say that the full
34:57effects of the tariff
34:58have not yet come in.
34:59So it is going
35:00to take about
35:00three or four months
35:01before the U.S.
35:02decides whether
35:03what Trump is doing
35:04is good for them.
35:06I personally think
35:06it's not.
35:07But I think
35:08we have to look
35:09at it in the
35:10following way.
35:11There's no doubt
35:12that what the U.S.
35:13is doing
35:14is acting like a bully.
35:15Now, they're a big boy,
35:17the biggest one
35:17in the block,
35:18so they can't afford it.
35:20But what should we do?
35:22The normal argument
35:23would be
35:24that when somebody
35:25acts like a bully,
35:26everybody else says,
35:27look, we're not
35:28going to accept that.
35:29Unfortunately,
35:30everybody is not
35:30doing this.
35:31All the big boys,
35:33EU, UK, Japan,
35:35you name it,
35:36they have all
35:36effectively
35:37kowtowed
35:39to the U.S. position.
35:42And this leaves us
35:43in a situation
35:44where how do we react?
35:46I don't think
35:47that we should be
35:48necessarily provoking
35:49conflicts.
35:50We should be doing
35:51exactly what we are
35:52doing,
35:53which is trying
35:53to negotiate
35:54with the U.S.
35:55how good a deal
35:56can we get.
35:58And when you say
35:58how good a deal,
35:59it's quite absurd
36:00to be having
36:01high tariffs,
36:02even 25%,
36:03when the U.S.
36:05wants much lower tariffs
36:06and faces much lower
36:08tariffs for themselves.
36:10Our problem is
36:11at the moment,
36:1225 could become 50.
36:14So hopefully,
36:14our negotiators
36:15are trying to get
36:16as good a deal
36:17as possible
36:18with the U.S.
36:19That's the only thing
36:20to do and wish them luck.
36:21But I think we need
36:22to do more than that.
36:24I think our trade strategy,
36:27we need to address
36:28the question.
36:30A lot of people
36:30are saying
36:31that the old idea
36:32of being open
36:33is wrong,
36:35that you should raise
36:36protectionist barriers,
36:38the Chinese have always
36:39done it,
36:39the Americans are doing it,
36:41et cetera, et cetera.
36:42I think that's wrong.
36:43I think we should be
36:44linking up
36:46with a non-U.S.
36:47part of the world
36:48and saying,
36:49look, let's integrate
36:50and open up
36:51with each other.
36:52So in that sense,
36:54I think the U.K.
36:55FDA is a very good example.
36:57I think we should
36:58conclude an FDA
36:59with EU
37:00as quickly as possible.
37:02And I think we should
37:03also look eastward.
37:05Now, I can understand
37:06that there's a political
37:08difficulty
37:09in doing RCEP
37:11because our industry
37:12opposed,
37:14I'm told,
37:14I don't know,
37:15but I'm told,
37:16that industry
37:17was very opposed
37:18to any free trade agreement
37:19which had China in it
37:20because they feel
37:21China is difficult
37:22to compete with.
37:24But we could join
37:25the comprehensive
37:26progressive trade partnership,
37:28the CPTPP,
37:30which includes Japan,
37:31which includes Korea,
37:32which includes Australia,
37:34which includes other countries.
37:35Now, this would be
37:36a very major signal.
37:38But those who say
37:39that India is wedded
37:40to closed markets,
37:42if you want to give a signal
37:44that we are not,
37:45in my view,
37:46we should apply
37:47to join the CPTPP.
37:50So we diversify our trade?
37:52Hang on.
37:52One, it's...
37:53CPTPP is not just about tariffs.
37:57Far too much
37:58of our intellectual thinking
38:00in the country
38:01is based on the assumption
38:03that open trade
38:04means lowering tariffs.
38:06But it also means
38:08harmonizing
38:09behind-the-border standards,
38:10which traditionally
38:11we have been
38:12very reluctant to do.
38:14Now, frankly,
38:15in the way the world
38:15is evolving,
38:17I think we should face
38:17the fact
38:18if other people
38:19are agreeing,
38:20if other people
38:21are doing
38:22an alignment
38:23of behind-the-border standards,
38:25then India
38:26should be willing
38:26to do it.
38:27Now, of course,
38:27you negotiate,
38:29you determine
38:30the time period,
38:31but that would give
38:32a clear signal
38:33that, look,
38:33the rest of the world
38:34wants an open system.
38:36The U.S. doesn't.
38:38We would welcome
38:39the U.S. joining
38:40when it's ready.
38:41But we don't just
38:42sit around
38:42building little walls
38:44around ourselves.
38:45And that is a big challenge
38:46for us to accept.
38:50Montek Singh,
38:51Aluwali,
38:51are calling
38:52for a more open economy,
38:55not a protectionist one.
38:57That's one of the opportunities,
38:58perhaps,
38:59that the Trump tariff war presents.
39:01Let's turn from there
39:02to another war.
39:04Opposition versus
39:04Election Commission
39:05of India war intensifying.
39:08Leader of the opposition
39:08in the Lok Sabha,
39:09Rahul Gandhi,
39:10responded once again
39:11today to the Election
39:12Commission of India
39:13who had asked him
39:14to sign a declaration
39:15on the charges
39:16he had made
39:17of vote chori
39:18or vote theft
39:20or apologize.
39:22Rahul Gandhi stated
39:23he's already taken
39:24an oath of the Constitution
39:25and Parliament.
39:26Instead,
39:26asked the poll body
39:27to answer to his
39:29five questions
39:30of vote chori first
39:32or alleged vote chori first.
39:34Listen in
39:35to Rahul Gandhi
39:37who had hit the street
39:38today in Bengaluru
39:40as part of his protests.
39:42Here are five
39:45questions
39:48to the Election
39:50Commission of India.
39:52Instead of
39:53threatening us,
39:54threatening me,
39:55answer these five
39:56questions.
39:57Number one,
39:59why are you not
40:00giving voter
40:01lists in digital
40:03machine-readable
40:04format
40:04to the people
40:06of India?
40:07Number two,
40:10why are you
40:11destroying
40:12video evidence?
40:15Number three,
40:16why is ECI
40:17committing
40:19massive fraud
40:20in the voter
40:22lists?
40:23Number four,
40:24why is ECI
40:25threatening opposition
40:26instead of answering
40:28our questions?
40:29And finally,
40:31why is ECI
40:32behaving
40:32like an agent
40:34of the BJP?
40:35Now,
40:37soon after this,
40:38the Election
40:38Commission of India
40:39responded to the
40:40allegations and posted
40:41them on Twitter or X.
40:43Number one,
40:44Congress's plea of
40:45providing machine-readable
40:47voter lists was rejected
40:48by the Supreme Court.
40:49So,
40:49the Election Commission
40:50has taken refuge in
40:51the Supreme Court.
40:52On the second question
40:53of CCTV,
40:54the poll body said
40:55that reviewing CCTV
40:56footage of 1 lakh
40:57boots will take
40:581 lakh days.
40:59Any aggrieved
41:00candidate can instead
41:01file an election
41:02petition for CCTV
41:03footage within
41:0545 days.
41:06Only then
41:06will it be retained.
41:08Number three,
41:09during preparation
41:10of electoral rolls
41:11for Lok Sabha
41:11election in 2024,
41:13hardly any appeals
41:14were filed by
41:14the Congress.
41:15Number four,
41:16Rahul Gandhi
41:17has made many
41:17such allegations
41:18in the past,
41:19has not filed
41:19any written
41:20complaint ever.
41:21The poll body
41:22has also once again
41:23asked Rahul Gandhi
41:24to sign a declaration
41:25or apologize
41:26to the nation.
41:27So,
41:27the war continues.
41:28Election Commission
41:29seemingly not willing
41:30for a proper
41:31investigation.
41:32But we have
41:33investigated instead.
41:34If the Election
41:35Commission doesn't
41:35want to investigate
41:36Rahul Gandhi's
41:37charges,
41:38India today has.
41:39The Election
41:40Commission,
41:40as I said,
41:41under fire.
41:42Now,
41:42leader of the
41:43opposition Rahul
41:43Gandhi had accused
41:44it of voter list
41:45manipulation in a
41:47specific assembly
41:48segment of central
41:49Bengaluru.
41:50In particular,
41:51he cited one
41:52address where 80
41:53voters were allegedly
41:55registered in a
41:56single room house.
41:58India today's
41:58Sagai Raj went
41:59and investigated
42:00the claim on
42:01the ground.
42:02Take a look at
42:03what he found out
42:04in this special
42:04report.
42:11India today
42:12visited the address
42:13at the center
42:14of this political
42:15storm.
42:16And what we found
42:17raises serious
42:19questions.
42:20The house,
42:21which is barely
42:2210 to 15 square
42:23feet,
42:24is currently
42:24occupied by a
42:25food delivery agent
42:26from West Bengal
42:27who moved in
42:28just a month ago.
42:29he claims he has
42:30no link to the
42:31alleged 80
42:31voters and has
42:33denied knowing
42:33anyone on the
42:34list.
42:35You live here
42:35in Bade?
42:36Yes, I didn't.
42:37Whose house is it?
42:39Sir,
42:39name is Jairam Reddy.
42:41Jairam Reddy.
42:42Who is it?
42:43Which party?
42:44I don't know, sir.
42:46I came here
42:47for a month, sir.
42:48I came here for
42:49a month.
42:51I have more days.
42:52Who knows?
42:53I can tell you
42:54how big your house?
42:55How big is your house?
42:56The house is owned
42:59by Jairam Reddy.
43:02When contacted
43:03by India today,
43:04Reddy initially
43:05confirmed being
43:06affiliated with the
43:07party, but later
43:08backtracked.
43:08you came here for a
43:09party, Jairam, sir.
43:11No, I didn't.
43:12You didn't have a
43:12party, I didn't have a
43:13number, I didn't have a
43:15number.
43:15The election
43:16term was
43:17the BJP vote
43:17active.
43:18No, you didn't have a
43:20party?
43:21No, no.
43:23No.
43:24Okay, okay.
43:25You're the associate
43:26No, no, no.
43:28Shockingly, Reddy also admitted that he never informed election commission officials about the anomaly despite knowing that most of the registered voters no longer reside there.
43:39No, no.
43:41If you look at the election commission, you can enroll in the 80s.
43:57No, no.
43:59No, no.
44:19India today also spoke to the Muniratna BLO, who confirmed that there are 80 voters registered in that one house.
44:26You know how it is.
44:29No.
44:30Okay.
44:31Okay.
44:33Okay.
44:35Okay.
44:36Okay.
44:40Okay.
44:46We need to talk about rental agreement.
44:49Many people are being able to go and preach, but never again.
44:54That's the matter, ma'am.
44:55On average, many people have been enrolled with a bunch of people.
45:06But you can go through 4 families.
45:11Or you can go through two people,
45:13and they don't go through 4 families.
45:15This is a fact. We have a lot of other information. We will feed them.
45:18Now we have just given him our election commission. What are the things which he has to look up?
45:23Definitely whatever research we have done, we will give more. We have asked all our cadres to just look at it.
45:29We know that elections can't be... We know that the time has barred for going for an election petition.
45:37We know that that will not help. But we want to set right the system and what is wrong in the system has to be.
45:45Informed to the people of this country.
45:48For now, what's clear is this. Rahul Gandhi's claims have found some ground.
45:55It is the house of Deepankar. He says that he is living here from past one month.
45:59And it is a very small house where he can accommodate only one or two people which has a hall and a kitchen and a bathroom.
46:05And he doesn't even have a bedroom. And as per the allegations made by Rahul Gandhi,
46:09He said that around 80 people have enrolled for hotel list from this particular house, house number 35, here in Munredi Garden, near Belanduru.
46:21With you, your journalist, Madhu Sagai Raj, reporting for India Today, Bengaluru.
46:24Saghai Raj, exposing the reality of house number 35.
46:31Let's turn from there to Bihar, the other state which is in the eyes of the election commission versus opposition storm.
46:40Remember, a massive row has erupted over the ongoing special intensive revision of electoral rolls.
46:46The election commission claims they are purifying the rolls.
46:50The opposition is alleging mass voter deletions, especially in remote and sensitive regions.
46:56What's the reality on the ground?
46:58India Today's Moshmi Singh travelled to Adadiya district in Simanchal to investigate the truth behind the deletions
47:04and met those most directly affected.
47:07Remember, 65 lakh voters have already been cut off from the rolls across Bihar.
47:13Take a look.
47:16Ahead of Battleground Bihar, a bitter war is brewing over ballot list in the state.
47:23Tensions are high over the ongoing revision of the electoral roll.
47:28The government and the opposition are trading barbs over the transparency of the exercise.
47:33But India Today decided to reach ground zero to Araria district in Simanchal where the impact of this exercise is most evident.
47:41India Today visited village after village to verify what is actually happening on the ground.
47:49One such village is Vaidjanathpur, ward number 6, booth number 213 and 214.
47:55Almost 36 lakh have moved to other places and 7 lakhs are those voters who are registered in multiple locations.
48:06For those whose name doesn't figure in the list, struggles like these are a daily affair.
48:13Where they strive, go to the BLO office, trying to make themselves count in that mammoth election commission's exercise.
48:23We first met Raj Mistry and Ganga Paswan who narrated their OD and ended up dialing the BLO yet again over the roll exercise.
48:33Ganga Paswan, whose name is not listed, can be enrolled by filling form 16 and giving a declaration that he is a resident of that place.
48:46So this is a small slip that will actually define and tell you about the travels and the hardship, odils of the villagers because here is the name of the BLO every time he came, he was given that number that is of the BLO Mr. Rajiv.
49:10And soon a small group of people gathered around with their papers, some unsure if their names exist on the list.
49:26Meanwhile, several others don't know how to check.
49:29So what is the name of the BLO?
49:59The scale of confusion is evident.
50:25Most villagers either don't know about the electoral process or have been failed by it.
50:31Despite repeated submissions, their names remain missing.
50:35It is clear the electoral roll revision process is riddled with gaps.
50:40Whether it is poor planning or lack of execution, the armed army is bearing the brunt.
50:46And with elections around the corner, their only demand is simple.
50:50Please let us exercise our fundamental right, the right to vote.
50:55Bihar, the land of Buddha, a hotbed of politics, is readying for elections.
51:03Watch this ground report as we bring you a reality check on the Election Commission's Mammoth SIR exercise.
51:12Criss-crossing the state, going to the rural hinterlands and remote hamlets.
51:18We bring you this special coverage from Battleground Bihar only on India Today.
51:25Let's now turn to our Get Real India story.
51:30And our Get Real India story comes from Haryana, where private hospitals have stopped admitting patients now with Ayushman Bharat insurance cards.
51:39The reason?
51:39The Haryana government owes them crores of rupees.
51:43Tonight's Get Real India story is from Haryana.
51:45The Ayushman Bharat Pradhan Mantri Jan Aroge Yojana, the government's flagship health insurance scheme, has run into rough weather in Haryana.
52:05Since Thursday, over 650 private hospitals across the state have suspended treatment under the scheme.
52:14There are over 1.5 crore beneficiaries of the scheme in Haryana.
52:20Those who are reaching hospitals are being turned away.
52:35These are the posters, notices that have been placed on the hospitals, at 690 hospitals in Haryana, that the surgery or any treatment under Ayushman Bharat Jan Aroge Yojana scheme is being struck off.
52:49And it will be taken till coming days.
52:53And on 14th of August, there is a review meeting which will decide further cause of action.
52:58Patients who need surgeries are among those affected.
53:01The Indian Medical Association in Haryana says 490 crore rupees in dues are pending and hospitals can't continue free treatment without payment.
53:2660% of the funding for Ayushman Bharat scheme comes from the centre and 40% from the Haryana government.
53:49At present, the state government's budget for the scheme is only 700 crore rupees.
53:55But doctors claim the actual annual requirement is around 2,000 crore rupees.
54:01The Nayib Singh Saini government has appealed to doctors to continue treatment of patients under the Ayushman Bharat scheme.
54:22The doctors will meet again after August 14th to decide future course of action.
54:29With Kamaljeet Sandhu and Aman Bharatwaj, EuroReport, India Today.
54:52With a political twist.
54:53But John claims he is apolitical and doesn't want to get caught between the battle on cinema between right and left wing or in the censorship wars taking place.
55:05Listen in to John Abraham, an excerpt from that podcast.
55:09Are you okay with the idea that there is someone out there overseeing your creative work?
55:16Would you just like there to be no censor board or minimal censorship?
55:20I think you need censorship.
55:22But the way it's being overseen, you know, could be a big question mark.
55:28Till now, they've been good with us, kind with us.
55:31And we've also been, I've been, I talk about myself, I've been responsible with the way I've made my films or spoken in my films.
55:38Because A, I say this on record, I'm not right wing, I'm not left wing.
55:42I'm apolitical, I'm politically aware.
55:45And it's important for me to make a statement honestly.
55:48But for me, what's worrying is when, you know, right wing films find a huge audience.
55:56That's when you ask yourself as a filmmaker, what line am I going to tow?
55:59Am I going to tow the commercial line to make so much more money?
56:02Or am I going to say true to what I want to say?
56:05So I think I've taken the latter.
56:07I've made a choice to take the latter and set things as they are.
56:10And in Tehran, I don't, this is not a patriotic film.
56:14This is, like you said, it was, well in 2012, it's not a patriotic film.
56:18But you've shown India as they were.
56:20And my trailer says it, that India has deserted me.
56:25It's interesting you're saying right wing films get these huge audiences.
56:28We've seen films like Kashmir Files.
56:30This year's big hit was Chawa, you know, around Chhatrapati Shambhaji Maharaj with Aurangzeb as the villain.
56:37Are you saying that, you know, you're not right wing, you're not left wing, you're apolitical.
56:42But is there that temptation every now and then?
56:44If I want to make a commercial blockbuster today,
56:47maybe I need to sort of go with the flow and make a right wing film with an Indian Muslim as the villain.
56:55No, sir, I haven't seen Chawa, so I can't comment on that.
56:58I mean, I've heard it's, people have loved it.
57:01People have also liked Kashmir Files.
57:03But what I'm trying to say is that, you know,
57:06when films are being made with the intent to sway people in a hyper-political atmosphere
57:12and they find an audience, that's scary.
57:15And to answer your question, no, I've never been tempted.
57:17And I'm never going to make those kind of films.
57:19Just like I can't make adult comedies.
57:21You know, it's difficult for me to produce those kind of films or even act in those kind of films.
57:26So, it's a choice.
57:27Are you sympathetic to filmmakers who struggle with the censor board?
57:31You know, who make these films with all their heart and passion
57:34and then eventually find themselves struggling to get their films across through the censor board?
57:39Yeah, so we've been pulled up a number of times.
57:43But, you know, there are people in the censor board who do listen as well.
57:46So, it's important to find the right voice or the right audience there to get your point across.
57:53And I believe if they see sense in what you're doing, you'll get through.
57:59And you can hear the entire interview with John Abraham.
58:02He talks about life of how a Bandra boy became a big star.
58:06That's coming up this weekend only on India Today.
58:09Thanks for watching.
58:11Stay well, stay safe.
58:11Good night.
58:12Shubhra 3.
58:13Jahin.
58:13Namaskar.
58:14Shubhra 3.
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