- 5 months ago
A new documentary focused on the career and creative processes of Trainspotting author Irvine Welsh is closing Edinburgh Film Festival.
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00:00I'm joined by Irvin Welsh. Irvin, there's a new movie, a documentary, Reality is Not Enough,
00:07and in that you say that part of the premise of the film is that you're making sense of yourself
00:14and the world. So how's that going? Not great. It's a paint in the fourth road bridge type of
00:23job, like, you know, to try and make sense of the world now, and to try and make sense of yourself
00:28is never particularly a good move, but I did see it as part of that, you know, embarking on that
00:34process, basically. I thought it was quite an interest, and it's like a meander through your
00:39life. Paul, the director, he's not very intrusive in terms of the way he kind of lets you kind of
00:46paint a picture of your background and your experiences. Yeah, I mean, I think because
00:52there's a lot of trust there, you know, we're all friends, and he was able to convince me
00:58to, you know, to do a sort of quite a more intimate documentary, but he was also able to say, well,
01:04just say what you want to say and do what you want to do. I'm not going to sort of try and lead you in
01:09any particular direction. But he did, you know, he obviously set up the framing device of the DMT
01:17thing in Toronto, and the rest was all pretty naturalistic, basically.
01:23Yeah. You said, you know, that you've enjoyed the story so far, but you're not slowing down,
01:29you're at a point where you don't have to work, but you're as busy as you've ever been.
01:36Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, I don't really see it as work. I see it as play, basically. I mean,
01:41I kind of, I do think of myself as having retired 30 years ago just to indulge my hobbies, and
01:47so I just get excited by the things that I see in the conversations that I have and what's going on
01:53around me, and I want to try to, you know, I think the whole process of writing fiction is about trying
01:58to understand the world, yourself and the world, and where, you know, and how it's all sort of,
02:03you know, coming together or falling apart, you know, that's the way that I'm trying to
02:08look at that.
02:10And one of the things that you talk about is this concept of writing in the songs was like,
02:16you know, you take aspects of things that you've encountered and you amplify it, or you
02:20delve into it and you rewrite it and you take it in a completely different direction.
02:24How much does that connection to this place, to Edinburgh, to Scotland, still, you know,
02:31give you that impetus?
02:33I think it's everything, because I think you're always formed, everybody, every individual and
02:40every writer, you're formed by your kind of childhood and your early adult experiences
02:47growing up in a place, and I think that, you know, really defines you both as a person
02:53and as, you know, for want of a better term, an artist.
02:56It's like that's always, I mean, the next book I've got the next year is kind of set in
03:02Vegas with American characters, but it's still not, it's a book that could probably only be
03:08written by somebody from Leith, basically, you know, I mean, it's still, it still has
03:13all that, you know, it's still, it's still propelled by me sort of having that sort of bedrock
03:23of a place kind of ingrained in me, you know, even though I'm taking all these sensibilities,
03:28even though I'm observing people in Vegas and learning about people in that culture and
03:33kind of different age groups and that sort of scene, it's very much about sort of, you
03:40know, the powerhouse of it is very much where you come from.
03:45Yeah. I've met you at events and I've talked to some of your pals, and some of your pals
03:49pop up in this documentary, having that lifelong connection through people, you know, you're
03:57a traveller, you've been all over the world, but you still have those people that take you,
04:00but, you know, that have you, it's a tangible connection, you're not just returning to Edinburgh
04:04all the time, but you're returning to people. Has that been important in your life, having
04:08these people that are your bedrock, your connection?
04:11Yeah, I mean, it's like, sometimes I've tried to get rid of them, but I can't, I can't,
04:16I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, you know, but, no, but it's
04:19important because, you know, it's like, I've, you know, I've lived all over the place
04:24now and I've travelled all over the place, but I've never, I've never felt I was running
04:28away from where I came from, I've always felt that I was curious about what was around
04:31the corner, so I wanted to have a look at that, you know, and maybe I got lost in it
04:35a few times and stayed, stayed a bit longer there than I should have, but I've always
04:40felt that, I've always really liked where I came from, I've always felt very comfortable
04:45there, I've always liked the people that I've kind of, I've grown up with, I've always
04:49liked kind of family and close friends and all that, I've never really wanted to, I've never
04:55felt there was any, you know, I just don't feel that there was any reason not to be connected
05:01to them, you know, for as long as I'm around, and it's basically stayed like that, you know,
05:06and that's just, I suppose, you know, it's just the way I am, I suppose, like, you know,
05:10you kind of, you, you, it's not so much consciously valuing people, it's just, you know, what else
05:17would I do, why would I not, you know.
05:19Yeah. One of the themes, I suppose, of a lot of the stuff that you're talking about
05:26through the documentary is the, the changes, the kind of almost imperceptible changes that
05:32happen as you go along the road, and then, you know, there is a point where you realise
05:36that you are further away from where you, where you started. I was just wondering if,
05:40you know, like, this was an opportunity for you, if you actually didn't learn anything along
05:44the way when you had, you were forced to kind of, like, look at the last body of work and
05:49look at yourself.
05:50Yeah, I mean, I think it is. One of the things that was interesting to me is, like, how you
05:56perceive time, and how, you know, your time moves in this very linear way, and you're kind
06:02of, you know, you get older, and you sort of, you modify certain things about yourself,
06:07but it also moves in a very lateral way as well, and you're not just moving through time,
06:13at times moving through you, too, you know, and that was a sort of, I thought Paul gave
06:19a great kind of visual sense of that with that scene where I'm in that gallery, and I'm
06:23looking at all these projections, and, and that, you know, that's sometimes how you feel,
06:28you know, when you get off the train at Waverly, and you think to yourself, there's all this,
06:34there's all this familiarity, but there's all, but the, the little differences that you've
06:39kind of, you're not quite caught up with are apparent as well, but there's also your own
06:44subconscious that's filling in all these blanks, so the whole thing feels like a, a kind of,
06:50if I want to have a better term, it feels like a kind of tableau of being on drugs, you know,
06:54so when you just step out there, and you're looking around, you're thinking, whoa, here I am,
06:58here, it's the same, it's different, it's the same, it's different, it's, you know, so all this
07:03is going on all the time. Yeah. I'm wondering about the, the part of the, the framing of the
07:11documentary as well, is like you going to lots of kind of literary events, and it's something
07:15that I know that you enjoy, and that direct connection you can get with readers, and it's,
07:18it's part of the, the stage that you're at with the books that you've still got to get out there,
07:23and stuff like that. You weren't always, you know, like, you were the punky upstart when you
07:29started, and now you're, the, you're in the Big Ten, with all the elder statesmen,
07:34does that sometimes feel a bit, that level of acceptance, does that sometimes feel a bit odd?
07:39He's gone from, he's gone from all port terrible to national treasure in about two weeks, like,
07:45no, it's, it's something that, again, it's like, I've, one of the interesting things about the
07:52documentary is you, you look at yourself in a way, and it's like, you think to myself, well,
07:56one of the great things that I've had gone from me is I've never really been self-conscious about
08:01anything, I've just steamed in, you know, and lived in the moment, and, and that's kind of served me
08:07well, so you don't really, I don't really perceive myself as having any kind of legacy, or even any
08:13kind of status in the literary world or anything like that, I just, you know, what I am about is the
08:18thing that I'm working on at the moment, and that's the thing that I'm immersed in, and everything else
08:22is just, you know, it's an act of giving it away, you're giving it out to the world and
08:26all that, and, you know, the world might think brilliant, and the world might think, eh, keep
08:30it, meh, you know, but it doesn't matter, you've got rid of it, and you're on to the next thing,
08:34and that's the great freedom you have as a writer, you have that blank page again, you want,
08:38want to get back to that scenario where you have this blank page.
08:41Yeah, when you were in America, you're talking to your, your manager, and he said he was out
08:45at some kind of cool festival or something, and there was, there was, there was younger
08:48kids, and two of them were wearing train-spotting t-shirts, the fact that that's like a classic
08:53album that keeps self-apetuating, that people, that's become part of pop culture, but not
08:57just, like, here, like, all kinds of different crazy places, the fact that it had a life of
09:01its own, that you have given it away, is that kind of cool?
09:04Well, it is, it's, it's great, because, um, usually about every five years, you know,
09:10the royalties will just suddenly speak again, because there's a new bunch of, a whole new bunch
09:13of people who have discovered it, you know, usually college kids and all that, it's become
09:17like a, a rite of passage book that, you know, we used to have Kerouac on the road and all
09:21that stuff that used to, it was a kind of book you had to read, you know, uh, and it's become
09:26like that, basically, and it's, uh, it's fabulous for me to, to, um, I mean, I can't, you know,
09:32it's like, it's made me confront that's the extent of it, basically, so, uh, I don't know
09:38what, um, maybe I'll start kind of getting big heaters and sort of thinking, wow, I, I
09:43deserve a, I deserve a Rolls Royce up to the book fair and all that kind of thing.
09:47There's a bit, there's a bit near the end where you're DJing, uh, uh, the Brothers in
09:51the Red in Glasgow, and, you know, that's the, like, DJing and playing music, that's still
09:56a big part of your life, right?
09:58That's, that's been a strand as much as, as writing, that's been a strand that's just
10:01been with you, right?
10:02Yeah, and it's kind of, it's one of these stupid things that it's actually, kind of,
10:07this is something that, you know, you should, you, you, you should start off on that thing
10:11when you're younger, and then it should kind of die out slowly, and it's got the other
10:15way around for me, it's kind of got more and more and more as I've got older, basically,
10:19um, uh, I don't know what all that's about, but, uh, you know, we set up the record label
10:24about four, three, four years ago, and, um, so I'm still very active in the dance music
10:29scene, and it's, it's, it's ironic when you get to that age where your legs aren't kind
10:34of there to throw all-nighters anymore, like, you know, and you're more obsessed with dance
10:39music than ever, it's just a, a bizarre, bizarre phenomenon, but, um, yeah, I mean, it is,
10:46you know, I've just, it was, you know, I was DJing at the weekend, and I'm DJing again
10:50to, tomorrow, and, um, it's just such, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's such a nice compliment
10:57to, to writing, because you're writing, and it's going to, you, everything you do, every
11:02sentence you write, you know, every chapter you write, it's going to be ages before it
11:07sees the light of day, and then people are going to be reading it privately, you're never
11:10going to see what happens to them, but every track you put down, and, you know, you know
11:15straight away, whether it's, you know, whether people are, like, kind of, whoa, they're like,
11:20yeah, I'll go and get a drink now, yeah, so, um, so it's fabulous to have that instant feedback.
11:25Yeah, we were both at, uh, Murrayfield for Oasis, and the, the first track before the band
11:31came out was Born Slippy, is it, is it fun as a writer to have your own theme song?
11:36You know what, it was, uh, it was strange, because when, I didn't, you know, when I went to
11:41the Tuesday gig, I didn't know they were going to play, they would be playing that, and, uh,
11:44it was like, um, a few people around me started looking around, and everybody started to kind
11:49of look around, and I thought, I thought, I thought I was incognito, so, um, after the
11:55gig, I, I, I texted Noel about, you know, just to congratulate him on this, it was a great
12:00gig, and, um, and, uh, he, it was, it was interesting that he said that, um, the whole thing
12:08went off absolutely brilliantly from, from Born Slippy to the fireworks, and they included
12:13Born Slippy in the fireworks, and this whole experience, which I think was very generous
12:17of him, like, yeah.
12:19I just wanted to, I wanted to ask you a bit about Glasgow, because, you know, you, you've
12:25worked on, uh, on films there, you've worked on television shows there, uh, you've had that
12:31relationship with venues and stuff like that, you've got pals there, um, what are some of
12:36your favourite places in, in Glasgow?
12:39Well, now, you know, it's, um, kind of, SWG3, just such a great resource, it's just, you
12:45know, it's fabulous for Glasgow that, that, uh, has, it has that space there, um, I mean,
12:52you know, the, the Arches used to be a great, back in the day, you know, the, the slam gigs
12:57at the Arches, and, um, the sub club, obviously, you know, the sub is just an institution, it's,
13:02it's, um, it's, you know, it's just brilliant, like, you know, it's just, it's still got that
13:08kind of, that kind of feel to it, you know, you can only be in the sub club when you're
13:12in the sub club, um, and, uh, yeah, uh, and, you know, it's like, there's, there's certain
13:18kind of heartbreakers as well, like, the Regano's restaurant's gone now, like, you know, I thought
13:23that, that, that would be in Glasgow forever, you know, it's one of these places you, you
13:26kind of, and it's just, it's just absolutely heartbreaking, that kind of thing, and, um, I think you
13:32feel it more when you're not from the town, because you mark the town by these places,
13:35I mean, there's still, there's still some great pubs, like, you know, the, the, the, um, the
13:40Horseshoe is one of my favourite pubs in the world, and, um, the Variety Bar down, um, Sockey
13:46Hall, the other end of Sockey Hall Street, uh, yeah, it's, it's, um, it's just, you know,
13:53it's like, it's, it's just such a fabulous city, basically, and I know that, um, my Ouija friends
13:59will say, ah, he's taking the piss, he's got the tug on the cheek there, but I'm not,
14:02like, you know.
14:03Also, er, the Oxford Dictionary has you recorded as the first literary use of the word Ouija.
14:10Right, right, so.
14:12It's probably true, like, yeah.
14:13You immortalised that, right?
14:14And now the Ouijas have embraced it themselves, like, you know.
14:18Irvin, it's great to see you.
14:20Well, all to pleasure, mate.
14:21I'll speak to you soon.
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