- 2 months ago
Mark Daniels joined Toucher & Hardy to talk about the Patriots’ unsettled offensive line, where rookie Jared Wilson has been demoted and journeyman Ben Brown may start at left guard. He raised doubts about Cole Strange’s future and noted Kyle Dugger could be a trade candidate given his contract and depth chart slide. The guys also discussed Rhamondre Stevenson sharing carries with rookie TreVeyon Henderson in a Lions-style backfield. One bright spot: undrafted receiver Efton Chism is standing out and could make the roster.
Image courtesy of USA TODAY NETWORK
Image courtesy of USA TODAY NETWORK
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00:00What was going on with the offensive line and what you saw in terms of how things may be shifting in terms of personnel?
00:07Yeah, I think the big surprise last week is that it looks like rookie guard center Jared Wilson has been demoted.
00:14And he was someone I want to say in like day five of camp surpassed Cole Strange as a team starting left guard.
00:20Like and everyone was praising him.
00:22I think like Caden Wallace said, like, this guy is really bleeping good.
00:25And like that was sort of the thing was like Jared Wilson's really good.
00:28He's a plug and play starter.
00:30And all of a sudden last week in Minnesota, day two of joint practices, he's not with the starters at the beginning of camp.
00:37And the only thing I wondered was if he was healthy because he didn't seem to participate much at all.
00:43However, in the preseason game, he participated with the second team unit.
00:47He played left guard with the backups and then he played center with the backups.
00:51And Ben Brown all of a sudden has been the team's starting left guard.
00:55And Mike Vrabel even said after the game, they don't know who the starter is at that point.
01:00A little a little late, I would say, in the summer to not know who your starting left guard is.
01:05And I'm thinking about it.
01:07Dating back to OTAs, I think there's been five guys in that starting spot.
01:12It's been Cole Strange, Caden Wallace, Jared Wilson, now Ben Brown.
01:17And also there was like a practice of someone named Tyrese Robinson.
01:19So that competition that we all thought was over is not over, guys.
01:24It could be Ben Brown, sort of a journeyman, started 10 games at center last year.
01:29So I'd say it's a little concerning if they can't figure that out.
01:32But it looks like at least they're trying.
01:34Ben Brown, if I remember correctly, you said journeyman.
01:38Didn't they pick him up like four days before a game one of the season last year off the street or something like that?
01:44Yeah, they signed him off the Raiders practice squad.
01:46So, yeah, and they shoved him in to be the starting center, and he wasn't very good.
01:51And now he's your starting left guard over Cole Strange.
01:54Two things.
01:54If Ben Brown is your starter at left tackle, is that good?
01:58And B, based on what you're seeing, does that mean Cole Strange may not make this team?
02:03Yeah, they've been playing Cole Strange also at right guard.
02:06But I'm at the point where I think Cole Strange is on the chopping block.
02:11I don't even know if you can trade him.
02:12I do wonder if the knee injury he suffered a couple years ago, which was very serious,
02:17you know, it sort of hurt him in terms of his development and his play.
02:20I think he was known for, like, a fast athletic, you know, guard,
02:23which is why people had him as a day two prospect, not necessarily a day one like Bill.
02:28But I don't think it's necessarily a good thing if Ben Brown's your starting left guard.
02:33It just goes to show, like, at this point in the summer, I mean, what, season is a couple weeks away,
02:39that there's still uncertainty at a pretty important spot.
02:42So, yeah, I don't think it's great.
02:45I thought Ben Brown, you know, he played okay in the preseason, which is, I guess, what you want to see.
02:50I thought he didn't look very good in one-on-ones.
02:52In Minnesota, he got beat pretty handily in the last day when I saw him going up against the starters.
02:57So a little bit of uncertainty there.
02:59But I don't know, would you rather have, like, a guy who started 10 games for you last year
03:02or a rookie who's struggling?
03:04I guess you go with the guy who started 10 games for you last year.
03:07Yeah, and so, okay, so Cole Strange, we've heard about Duggar.
03:12Let's just go to Duggar.
03:14Duggar's someone, if they, you know, he's not playing.
03:18Like, he's not even second string.
03:20I mean, he was, if I'm not mistaken, Mark, there was, was it Peppers that was out?
03:28Who am I thinking of?
03:29Peppers that came out, and he wasn't the immediate replacement for him.
03:34It was a guy I've never heard of before.
03:36So, I mean, that doesn't mean anything.
03:38But it's a guy that I'd never heard of before.
03:41Duggar is an odd man out.
03:43I mean, that just seems obvious.
03:45But he's someone there's a belief you could get something back for.
03:49Is that true?
03:51It depends if someone's willing to pay him the money.
03:54He has a base salary of almost $10 million.
03:56I mean, right now, his cap hit, guys, is $15.2 million, which makes him the second highest cap hit on the team.
04:02You can't really cut him.
04:03I mean, I guess, theoretically, if you just want to eat $20-something million in dead cap money, you could.
04:09But, I mean, I'd rather keep him as a backup as opposed to just eating that cap hit.
04:13But if you can find someone to actually trade for him, you can actually clear the contract pretty easily.
04:19It's just dependent if you find someone who thinks he fits better in their system.
04:22And I think that's sort of what it's about with Mike Vrabel.
04:24But, yeah, Jabril Peppers and Jalen Hawkins have been the two starting safeties.
04:28And the top backup has been rookie Craig Wilson, who they have playing both strong and free safety.
04:34And it has left Kyle Duggar with the backups and third stringers.
04:37And I think any time a veteran like that is playing at the end of the fourth quarter, it's another – it's a team saying, hey, guys, this guy's available.
04:44Sort of like with Anfernee Jennings, too, a guy who started last year, fits better in Belichick's system as opposed to Vrabel's.
04:51He's playing at the end of the fourth quarter.
04:52It's like, hey, if anyone wants these guys, they're available.
04:55And usually it doesn't take much, whether it's a player-for-player swap or a late-round pick swap.
05:00But with Kyle Duggar, you just signed him to a four-year, $58 million contract last year.
05:05It might be tough to move him because of the money unless you find someone who really, really likes him at 29 years old.
05:14Okay, and then finally with someone I've heard rumors of maybe being moved on from, and this is more of a positive for other people than is a negative for him, is Ramondre Stevenson.
05:26And just because Henderson has been so good, and, you know, do you want to take a bunch of carries away from him?
05:37What do you think about Stevenson?
05:38Is there any way he doesn't make the team or gets traded?
05:42I would be surprised.
05:44You know, Travion looks outstanding.
05:46Honestly, the fastest player I think I've seen at training camp other than maybe Wes Welker.
05:51Wes just moved differently, but so does Travion.
05:53But the knock on him in college was health and, you know, and durability.
05:59And you see, he's a smaller guy.
06:01So for that reason, I would absolutely keep Ramondre, at least this year, keep him, you know, Henderson, Stevenson, and Antonio Gibson.
06:09And I think you have three, you know, running backs that can sort of mix and match.
06:13And I think that's to the Pats' benefit.
06:15And I think as they get going here in the season, if Ramondre can get healthy, you might actually have a nice one-two complement.
06:21And I like Travion.
06:22I think he could be your best offensive weapon, certainly your most explosive.
06:26But you have to protect the kid, you know, especially someone who's – he's built like a third down back with his size.
06:33But he plays like someone who could, you know, hurt the opposing defense on every touch.
06:38And I think if you were to trade or release Ramondre, you just take away some of that really good depth you have.
06:44I would keep that.
06:45But the guy you brought up, though, like Stevenson, Duggar, hell, Jennings, they all signed contracts last year.
06:52You know, think about that offseason, guys, right?
06:54That 2024 offseason doesn't really look great for the Patriots.
06:57You extended a lot of guys.
06:59It's not working out.
07:00That draft class, other than Drake May, is not working out.
07:02So I think Ramondre stays, but, yeah, tough look for the 2024 offseason.
07:08I think for Travion, I think he hit the nail on the head because two years ago he played in 10 games.
07:15He came back and was healthier in his final year, played more games, ended up with fewer carries and more yards.
07:24So I think you've probably tapped into what the Patriots at least could be thinking about him.
07:33But you could carry three backs, but then it becomes a matter of taking carries away from the guy.
07:41So my point would be this, is that, sure, you don't want him carrying the ball 250 times this year.
07:47I mean, you don't want him going crazy, but you might want him to, if he's your best offensive player, him on the field more often than not.
07:59And so you have Gibson that could take some of those carries away.
08:02Do you just want to have a guy making that kind of money and having, and like splitting carries?
08:09I know the Lions do it with Gibbs.
08:12I know, and it sucks because, you know, it's a tough pill to swallow when he could be carrying the ball,
08:17but it's so that he's more effective on the carries he does have, and he's there until the end of the season.
08:22Right, but if I want him in on first and second down, if I want him in second and third downs, I mean, I don't know.
08:29It gets to be a thing.
08:32Because, I mean, could it be like a Lions thing where you have Ramondre Stevenson for one, this is exactly what the Lions do.
08:39They'll have Ramondre Stevenson, they'll have, what's his face in for a series?
08:42Montgomery.
08:43Montgomery in for a series, and then Gibbs in for a series.
08:46That's the way they played him.
08:47I mean, but is Stevenson as good as Montgomery?
08:53Probably not.
08:54So, I don't know.
08:56How do you think you handle the two?
08:58Yeah, actually, I love the comp because Jameer Gibbs is just another guy, like super fast.
09:04He can catch the ball.
09:05He's also a bit smaller.
09:07So, what the Lions did last year, like Jameer Gibbs ran for 1,400 yards and scored 16 touchdowns.
09:12David Montgomery ran for 700 yards and scored 12 touchdowns.
09:16I think the Pats would obviously be thrilled with some type of combination there.
09:19And I don't think, you know, Travion's going to come in and run for 1,400 yards.
09:23But if you have a similar setup, that you have two running backs who are efficient, it's almost like the thunder and lightning combo.
09:31I sort of think of like the old school Tampa Bay Bucs.
09:33What was it?
09:34Was it Mike Allscott and Mike?
09:36Work done.
09:37Work done.
09:38Right?
09:38Like, it's not going to be quite like that.
09:40But like, Ramondre is built differently than Travion Henderson.
09:43And I think they complement each other that if they're both healthy, you know, it should help the offense and it should help Drake May, more importantly.
09:51Right?
09:51I think they both can catch the ball to the backfield.
09:53Ramondre caught almost 70 passes a couple years ago.
09:57You know, I think it's been a little bit disappointing for him, you know, ball security and injuries.
10:02But if you're splitting time with Travion at least this year as he goes through his rookie season, that could work.
10:08And I like it.
10:09And I think they should do it.
10:10Just, you know, keep both healthy.
10:13And you don't need four running backs on the 53.
10:15You can do it with three.
10:16And I think that's something that could aid Drake May, too.
10:19If you can have a strong run game, it should help your pass game.
10:21What's the latest on Kyle Williams who took a big hit on that hospital ball that Josh Dobbs threw him?
10:26And I assume Efton Chisholm has made the team.
10:30Yeah, Efton Chisholm, man.
10:31What a great story.
10:32Broke all of Cooper Cupp's records at Eastern Washington.
10:36And, you know, considering he's a smaller white slot receiver, I think a lot of people, you know, NFL draft.
10:43But he's a guy who honestly has improved.
10:46Like, he was great OTAs in the spring.
10:48And then I started training camp.
10:50I was actually kind of disappointed because he was quiet.
10:52And come, like, week two, he's just, yes.
10:57Yeah, he's made the team.
10:58He looks really, really good.
11:00I think the next step for him is to do it with some of the starters, though.
11:03Like, he's one of the few guys who haven't caught any passes from Drake May in practice.
11:08I mean, we've seen Drake, you know, throw to Javon Baker and Jalen Polk and Kendrick Boring, but not Efton Chisholm.
11:14And I wonder, going into this week, you know, we get to still see a handful of practices that are closed to the public.
11:19I just, I wonder if we'll see Efton with the starters.
11:21I'd love to see that.
11:22But, yeah, I definitely think he's making the team.
11:24And you said Kyle Williams.
11:25We're going to talk to Mike Vrabel today at 10.15 and see if he has an update on him.
11:30It looked like a head injury, though, to me, the way he was tackled.
11:33And so we'll see.
11:35He's been another interesting one.
11:37He definitely gets separation.
11:38And it's always weird when it's like, well, he's not catching passes, but he's beating the cornerbacks.
11:42And is it because he's playing with Josh Dobbs?
11:44But they have some nice young receivers that's, I think it's a positive thing for the Pats to, like, this team for so long has struggled to develop those guys.
11:55And it looks like maybe they get a good third-round pick and maybe they found an under-the-radar, undrafted gem.
12:00That'd be fun.
12:03Yeah.
12:03I mean, if you're willing to do it.
12:05If you're willing to have fun.
12:08You're not going to be a stick in the mud.
12:09Don't you want to say Efton Chisholm every Monday morning?
12:12You can sit here and talk about Efton Chisholm the third.
12:16Yes.
12:16The third.
12:16I, I, I.
12:17Got a root form.
12:18I say EF-ing, and then you know what I said at the back of the head?
12:22I put a J in.
12:23All right.
12:25All right.
12:26All right.
12:28Now we're having fun.
12:29Yeah, we're done.
12:30We're cooking, Mark.
12:31We're cooking.
12:33Let him cook.
12:34Let me cook, Mark.
12:35Get out of the way.
12:36I'm doing shit.
12:37For all the latest from the Sports Hub, download the app at 985thesportshub.com.
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