00:00Senator Cornett. Thank you all for being here. If there's one conclusion that I've
00:09drawn from the general subject matter we're discussing here, it is that we are
00:14losing. We're losing. And so if the definition of insanity is doing the same
00:24thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome, what should we be
00:30doing differently? And I'd like both of you to comment on that, but specifically
00:36in my time here in the Senate I've observed that the most successful
00:43counter drug efforts that the United States has ever engaged in has been
00:49playing Colombia, although obviously Colombia continues to have many problems
00:55as do many of the countries we're talking about. Whether it's corruption,
01:01obviously the money that Americans spend on illegal drugs is a huge magnet, but
01:11what should we be doing differently? Maybe Mr. Urban would you start with you? Sure, so
01:18I certainly agree with your statement, sir. I think in the last six months we
01:23have an opportunity to start to impact the cartels and start to achieve some
01:27semblance of success. And I was, before I came in here today I said what would
01:31success look like in 18 months? And I think specifically we need to be specific
01:36with Mexico. So one is extraditions or expulsions or whatever they're going to
01:41call it. Those 29 that they sent back to us earlier this year was a very
01:45significant event. That needs to be done on a monthly basis, right? So if there's
01:50several hundred extraditions pending they need to be sent back to us in a
01:54timely manner or sent to us I should say. Anyone else that's a mid-level cartel
01:58member or higher should be indicted and again expelled or extradited from Mexico
02:04in a timely manner. That would have a dramatic impact on the cartels. That was a
02:08big deal when Mexico extradited the 29 individuals. So my experience has been
02:15that this has been a huge obstacle is to just getting through the Mexican legal
02:20process with all the avenues for escape that people have. So you
02:27think more extraditions would be significant? Well it played out with
02:32what you mentioned in terms of Plan Colombia with the AUC and the FARC. Those were
02:36successes once we started to extradite those individuals to the United States
02:4020 years ago. If we did the 29 that we did on a monthly basis over the next 18
02:46months you would have a dramatic impact on the Mexican cartels ability to operate
02:51and and the costs are limited and what we have to put out there and we can get
02:55these people back here. And they'll also cooperate with us some of them and
02:58expose the corruption that we're talking about here today that's systemic within
03:02Mexico. Doctor? Let me reiterate Senator Cornyn three points I made. One is focusing
03:12on the middle layer of criminal groups. That could well be done through enabling
03:16that extradition. Extraditions are particularly meaningful when they reveal
03:21political collusions and sponsors in government. So I hope that out of the
03:26extraditions of Ovidio Guzman and El Chapa and El Mayo we will see revelations
03:32as part of plea deals and court proceedings as to the political cover
03:37that criminal groups in Mexico enjoy. The second element I would emphasize is
03:44going not just after drugs but after the wide set of economic activities that
03:49criminal groups engage in and I thank you for your sponsorship of the Golden
03:53Mining Act which starts to be addressed in a very important way one of the
03:58components of economies into which criminal groups around Latin America and
04:06beyond Latin America have become engaged. And the third is enabling the entire
04:12structure of rule of law which is where come Plan Colombia comes in again. In my view
04:18the most successful element of Plan Colombia was helping to rebuild and
04:22absolutely shattered and intimidated justice system in Colombia to be far more
04:28independent, far heftier, helping to rebuild police forces. So having mechanisms and
04:34tool agencies in the United States that enable this broader spectrum of
04:40infrastructure and system to counter rule of law and enable and counter
04:46criminality and enable rule of law is fundamental. Thank you. Mr. Urban, as you know there are vetted units within the Mexican Army and the Mexican Navy that work together with U.S. intelligence services to target some of these fentanyl labs, among other drug labs and the like. Do you think it would be helpful to have additional training opportunities,
04:52here in the United States for those vetted units?
04:54Absolutely. We need to dramatically
05:22increase our funding and the opportunities to train these Mexican vetted units here as much as possible
05:27before they go back and start to engage the cartels and the elements of corruption that's already been described. I think essentially compared to what we've done in the past and the opportunities that we see now in terms of engaging the cartels, we need to go all in on the judicial components within Mexico. So standing up those vetted units will be a long-term gain for us, not just on the Mexican cartels over the next 18 months, we need to go all in on the judicial components within Mexico.
05:45So standing up those vetted units will be a long-term gain for us, not just on the Mexican cartels over the next 18 months, but using those vetted units to gather judicial evidence, right, to prosecute these cartel leadership entities in the future.
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