- 5 months ago
Felger and Mazz, with Michael Holley filling in for Mazz, are joined with Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal to examine how Mike Vrabel's culture has evolved in training camp.
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00:00We'll start with this because I know we have some pretty distinct opinions on this topic about how
00:04much coaching matters and how much a head coach or a coach can affect a team or make a bad team
00:10good, a bad team better, etc. So we lead with more gushing for Mike Vrabel. There's been a lot of
00:15Mike Vrabel gushing these last couple of weeks certainly and that was Colin Cowher talking about
00:21the culture and equating to Dan Campbell and already seeing it and so the lead-off question
00:26I'll start with Greg is are we putting too much on Mike Vrabel is is are there too much
00:31expectations just on the head coach alone and are we overdoing it? I would say no because I think just
00:39where the Patriots have been the previous couple years I just think that you know Vrabel brings
00:45the floor up so much for this team I mean I don't I think talent determines the ceiling but I think
00:51that Vrabel and the coaching staff I mean for instance you know talking to Doug Marone yesterday
00:57he you know raved about he has two assistants um Hoff Tolling and uh Kugler and he he said the
01:05the coaching situation in his room is the best he's ever been around and he's been doing this for like
01:12I don't know 35 years or something like that and so I think Vrabel coupled with the coaches
01:16I think uh I think it's very fair to expect a lot out of them for them to get a lot out of this team
01:23I think they are from what I I could tell from the you know being at practices watching the film from
01:29the game uh I think they're off to a really good start I mean I look across the board when you look
01:36at this team and I would be hard-pressed to find somebody who hasn't gotten better uh from you know
01:43whether it was the off-season practices into training camp where you know you're seeing people
01:47improve on a daily basis you're seeing the technique and fundamentals uh being much stronger
01:52in the game and I think that's because of Vrabel and his coaching staff Mike we point too much on
01:58Vrabel yes too much on Vrabel I I agree with with with what my brother Greg Bedard is saying here about
02:04the floor coming up the floor has come up and you got to say it like the difference between this
02:09training camp and last training camp is stark it's not even worth comparing it's so dramatic
02:15uh Gerard Mayo we know now I didn't know at the time uh other people did we know now he was so
02:21overmatched he was so unprepared for the moment and it's just shocking when you see a professional
02:26coach come in as Greg said with the professional staff and see how they can affect every uh every
02:32aspect of the operation however Colin Cowher did say Detroit Dan Campbell we're talking Detroit Dan
02:41Campbell talent wise where the Patriots are now so yeah we look look at Detroit now hey they're a
02:46Super Bowl contender but they weren't in year one they weren't in year two and I think that's where
02:50the Patriots are Robert Kraft I think is out of his freaking mind when he talks about the Patriots
02:57and hey with with coach Vrabel we're going to be competitive and I'm really excited about the
03:02season no you should be excited about growth you should not be excited about wins you should not
03:07be excited about the playoffs that ain't happening baby you got a long way to go but Vrabel is a good
03:13agent of change and a culture setter but the culture is not set yet Murray you want a bite uh yeah I mean
03:20to paraphrase our uh guy Colin Cowherd with a coach like Mike Vrabel the players are willing to pay in
03:26with sweat equity in the hopes that the payoff isn't cash but championships uh I think a red
03:33ass or emotional lunatic who runs a tight ship but that is respected in the room can get your team to
03:38be better he he mentioned one of these guys that's worked with Dan Campbell with Detroit I think you
03:43saw it with someone years ago with like Tom Coughlin with the Giants and even when he oversaw the Jaguars
03:49for a minute there and then Bill Parcells but at the end of the day in today's NFL you win more
03:54often than not with guys with better teams that have better talent the Eagles just proved this do
03:58any of us really respect Nick Sirianni I think that guy's a clown me too they were the most talented
04:03team Andy Reid quarterback whisperer offensive mastermind offensive tactician what the hell was
04:08he before Mahomes so even Zach Taylor got to a Super Bowl why because he has Joe Burrow who's probably
04:13the second best quarterback in the league at the end of the day you want to have more talent than
04:17like a hard red ass coach but it does help it does raise the floor I agree with Greg on that
04:22so so listen let me say this you can win championships with bad coaching and great
04:27talent we've seen it a million times I mean again I just think it happened right good
04:31sure Sirianni's uh I think a case in point the NBA it happens all the time okay including here
04:38all right we're really talented teams with bad coaching win championships happens in sports happens
04:44in the NFL you cannot win a championship with great coaching and bad talent I agree with that
04:50I think what Michael misses or I I'm surprised you don't think just on the basis of coaching you
04:58don't think coaching can get you to level in the NFL can get you to be a 500 team because that's what
05:03we're talking about say I do no no not not not with this team so I I think okay let's see um
05:11okay I'll give an example uh last year Cincinnati you mentioned Zach Taylor's has gotten to got to
05:17the Super Bowl last year they just missed out uh I think with a good coach they would have made the
05:22playoffs so you know that talent they had a bad defense great offense Javar Chase you know Higgins
05:28all that stuff if you put a good coach on a 500 team you can take that 500 team to a championship
05:35level the Patriots I think my argument against the Patriots is I still think their talent is bottom 10 I
05:42think they have bottom 10 talent in the league and whoever you think the best coach is I don't
05:47think the best coach can get them to the playoffs whoever the best coach is in the league it's not
05:50Mike Rabel who is it for you is it Andy Reid Sean McVay Sean McVay could not get the the Patriots to
05:56the playoffs right now probably could in two years it's like Rabel a year or two but not right now I
06:01I think you'll see this guy come really close if not do it and uh Greg I think we're already seeing it
06:07and I I think the things that he's sort of emphasizing to start are the smart things to
06:12emphasize they were not relying on talent it's you know sort of mindset and intangibles and head and
06:18heart and all that kind of crap which doesn't win you championships we're not talking championships
06:22we're talking nine and eight and that third wild card that's what we're talking about yeah Mike and and
06:29into that you know I forget who said it first but you know there's a saying in the NFL or you know
06:34there were coaches whether it was you know I think it was Bill Walsh or maybe it was Jimmy Johnson I
06:38don't know who but you know they basically said like you know there's there's eight to I don't
06:44know eight to ten teams they're like it was Jimmy you're not competing against the whole league you're
06:48really competing against like ten teams right because what they're doing because of poor ownership yeah
06:53but uh you know mismanaged personnel bad coaching you know you can eliminate you know about 20 teams in
07:00this league off the bat the Patriots are now thanks to Vrabel and what they're doing with personnel
07:05which so far looks like they're off to a good start in terms of the guys they brought in uh in the draft
07:11and free agency and also what they're doing on on the field I think now the Patriots are if they're not
07:17in that group of 10 they're like on the outside you know 15 16 we'll see where the ceiling is but I
07:24think Vrabel and company bringing the Patriots up in terms of all of that I think it does get them
07:31I think they are in the conversation I think you're underestimating you know how good this Patriots
07:36team can be I think they're I think their talent level is better than what you think oh wow I think
07:41Mike I think I think Mike is underestimating how how relatively straightforward it is to get to the
07:48middle wait yeah so like I don't think I'm overrating the talent I'll I'll agree with Mike that
07:53the talent's not really there but I think if you let other teams beat themselves etc blah blah blah
07:59and you don't have complete horse crap at quarterback okay if you have complete horse crap at quarterback
08:06and your talent's bad then okay you're in trouble but Drake May's good and uh even if if Drake May's
08:14good Mike Vrabel's good and the talent is subpar that's enough to get to 500 I think you're
08:20overestimating what it takes to get to nine wins and I'll just tell you I was encouraged by what I
08:25saw Friday night like I I I watched that and without overreacting to the situation because
08:32obviously it's the first preseason game and obviously the commanders weren't playing anybody
08:36and I got it but I don't know I watched that and I I you know when you hear a coach say we want to do
08:45x y and z and then you actually see x y and z even in that setting that's encouraging because that
08:52doesn't happen all the time and not every coach can do that and that happened where they finish
08:58their runs the way they finish their tackles just how hard they played and like finish their blocks
09:05finish their runs that was there from day one and so that's sort of like okay he's got them and those
09:13are the things that you can do you don't have to have great talent to do those things and so you
09:17just sort of add that all together and I'm sort of I'm encouraged I I think almost strictly on the
09:23strength of Rabel and his staff and the approach they I feel stronger than ever that they're going
09:27to get back to the middle of the pack Mike they'll get back there they'll get back there Mike um I don't
09:33know if they'll get back there now let's say it this way Greg you're impressed with the talent level
09:37or I'm underestimating the talent level on the team I think when they do get back to a championship
09:42level in two years most of the guys here most of the guys on this roster will not be a part of it
09:49yeah so Henderson will be here Will Campbell will be here at guard uh you caught that um you know
09:56others so other other guys will be here but you know uh Javon Baker's not going to be a part of it
10:02uh Demario Douglas may not even be a part of it like some of those guys on defense won't be a part
10:08of it so I think he has got Mike Felger is right that he walks into the room and he gets immediate
10:15credibility immediate as soon as he walks in you pay attention to what he's saying you buy into the
10:21program I can see evidence of it it shows up it probably jumps off uh the the tape what the guys are
10:28doing they're absorbing his coaching I just don't think they have enough to affect the rest of the
10:34league well I mean my counter argument would be and look I know there's some differences and
10:39Jim will say the quarterback there's also Terry McLaurin but if you if you go back to last year
10:45the commanders and what they did and the Patriots basically copied their offseason you look at that
10:49team they were not very talented they really weren't and they went from four wins to 12 in the
10:55NFC championship game and but the thing that stood out to me I I probably the most shocking thing to
11:02me with the preseason game was I couldn't believe that already in in game number one they're already
11:10playing in the image of their head coach already and they still have time before the regular season
11:15starts and we have the season I mean that they were that they showed the way that they did and the
11:20difference between last year in terms of operation and penalties and not doing stupid stuff outside of
11:25Drake Mays uh you know fumble uh it was shocking to me that already they're in the image and doing
11:31exactly what Mike Vrabel laid out from his very first press conference so I wasn't shocked I on
11:37Friday I said this that the one thing I wanted to see was just can you already sense something from
11:43Vrabel on a very base level in game one of the preseason because I've seen it before Mike I don't
11:48know if you were there you probably were yeah Belichick's first preseason game it was in Canton
11:54they played the the Hall of Fame game that year in 2000 played the Niners I think they played the
11:59Niners didn't they yeah I think you're right uh because it wasn't Carmazzo yeah yeah that's right
12:03wasn't he on the other side they picked Brady over but uh but either way I just remember that game
12:09because I covered the last year under Pete where it just all sort of falling apart and that that first
12:14game just the way they came out of the huddle and lined up and came off the line of scrimmage
12:18you could feel it and they weren't very good either at all I mean they ended up winning five
12:22games but you could just sort of see immediately someone who knew what they were doing had taken
12:28over and the team was listening and just a very small little first step and I I really do think
12:33we saw that on Friday and I think we saw it in a pretty pretty definitive way so I am in on Vrabel
12:40I am on him making the difference of getting them back into respectability and back into contention
12:44if not the playoffs but but I but I'm not the one that takes it too far like you you just can't
12:50and maybe I learned my lesson on this a a great coach cannot take a swaggy roster to a championship
12:56it doesn't work that way the 2001 Patriots the talent on that team was better than we realized at
13:01the time we all know that now a handful of hall of famers on that team and we didn't recognize it
13:07then but we do now so the talent was there you can't win championships without the talent I'm not
13:11saying that you can win games though you can make the playoffs again especially if your quarterback's
13:17good and he is good right okay all right I think we need to talk about that was Greg not me
13:24I like I like the way you do that hey can somebody tell me quickly has you said a thousand times or
13:31and you're right Mike a thousand times that we've seen uh teams that you know go from uh you know just
13:38okay talent uh or no uh good talent bad coaching winning championship yeah it happens definitely
13:44we've seen it happen um but have you seen a team go from the worst record in the league which is what
13:52the Patriots had on a technicality they didn't but they really did we all know it they shouldn't have
13:56won that last game so they're the worst team of football they should have the number one seat
13:59uh number one pick so have you seen a team go from worst team in the league to make the playoffs
14:05let me uh let me workshop that let me workshop they weren't the worst team in the league though
14:11pretty close but I'm saying they were right there like number one the commanders had what the uh
14:15well they were right there they had two they were three or two right but the the team that is the
14:20worst like the so Tennessee Titans of of last year so last year's Titans technically the worst team
14:28and then they come back and make the playoffs right that rarely happens like I said let me break
14:32let me uh listen out there you want Boston Sports Info one of my stat guys help me out good give me
14:38some examples of last place teams that the next year in football moved up to the middle of the league
14:43right I know a lot of them in basketball but in
14:45go through some of my stat majors right now I know some.
14:48good news
14:59brightens
15:00six
15:01seven
15:03eight
15:03uh
15:04you
15:04yeah