- yesterday
Greg Bedard of the Boston Sports Journal joins Felger and Mazz from Gillette Stadium to share his analysis from Patriots training camp.
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00:00It is Tuesday, yes?
00:01It is, yes it is.
00:02And Greg Bedard of the Boston Sports Journal does join us from training camp.
00:05Hi, Greg.
00:06Hi, guys.
00:07Hello, Greg.
00:08Hey, Greg.
00:08Hello, Tony.
00:10How do you feel about Mike Vrabel's training camp so far?
00:13It has been the lightest training camp that I have ever covered in terms of work,
00:20some of the decisions that they've made, veteran time off.
00:27You know, look, you know, he's certainly entitled to it.
00:29Mike Vrabel's way smarter than I am.
00:31I'm just telling you that in my history of covering the NFL over 20 years,
00:37this is the lightest training camp that I've ever covered.
00:39Does it surprise you?
00:41A little bit.
00:42I mean, I didn't know much about Vrabel.
00:44We did a joint practice.
00:47The Patriots had a joint practice in Tennessee once,
00:50and I think I also saw Vrabel in West Virginia at one point.
00:55I guess it shouldn't because I reached out to Paul Kaharski down in Nashville,
01:00has his own site, and he's covered Vrabel, covered the Titans for years,
01:05and he said that Vrabel did the exact same thing when he was in Tennessee.
01:09And then I was like, well, let me look at how Vrabel's team started the season.
01:13And, hey, if they started great, he's on to something.
01:17That was not the case.
01:19Vrabel lost his last three season openers as head coach of the Titans,
01:22and he lost four of the six when he was there.
01:26Hmm.
01:27So there's obviously a method to the madness.
01:29Yes, ma'am?
01:29Yeah, so what I was going to ask, Greg,
01:30and forgive me if this enters an area that you're about to cover or maybe didn't,
01:36were they all that way in Tennessee,
01:38or was it just when the schedule went to a 17th game?
01:42Oh, I don't know.
01:43I mean, it sounded like from talking to Paul that it's always been like that.
01:47I mean, you know, for instance, Vrabel in 2021,
01:53they lost the season opener to the Cardinals 38-13.
01:56They got shellacked.
01:58And this relates to some of the stuff that we're talking about,
02:02like Morgan Moses not being out there, Carlton Davis not being out there.
02:06He only shows up for walkthroughs.
02:08He hasn't been in one padded practice yet.
02:12But, you know, the reporters in Tennessee, including Kowarski,
02:17they were pretty critical that Vrabel basically, he didn't let the –
02:21the offense didn't work as a whole very much in the lead up to the season,
02:26and Vrabel just sort of shrugged his shoulders at it,
02:28and they ended up sort of stinking up the joint in that opener against the Cardinals,
02:35including, you know, a bunch of penalties, a bunch of drops.
02:40They just looked really sloppy.
02:42And basically the opinion of the media in Tennessee was, well, what did you expect?
02:46This team wasn't ready to go.
02:47What do you think he's trying to do there?
02:49Could it be any way just trying to, you know, pull a little bit of a Belichick?
02:53I always think Belichick managed – built in, I rather, built in a team
02:59that was going to get better as the season went on.
03:01And so to create that room for improvement,
03:04you kind of purposely have the training wheels on, the governor on to begin the year.
03:09And I think we found even when they were at their best,
03:11there would always be an early season hiccup or, you know,
03:15I just think Bill built in that improvement a lot of times.
03:17Do you think Vrabel's trying to do the same thing?
03:19I think some of it is that.
03:21I think it also – you know, let's be honest.
03:25This team, especially the guys that they brought in this year,
03:28they're on the older side.
03:30They're veterans.
03:32They've been around.
03:33I think when you're talking about Morgan Moses and especially Carlton Davis,
03:37who's never completed a full season in his career,
03:40he basically misses a month every season,
03:43I think he looks at it and just says,
03:46I'm more worried about Week 17 than I am Week 1.
03:48And just in terms of, you know, not just getting better as the season goes along,
03:53but just those guys, you know, staying healthy.
03:56And so I think he's being extra careful about that.
03:59And, you know, I think that he probably also looks at it and says,
04:03this is a very thin team.
04:04I'm not going to push it.
04:06Even though injuries are still happening, you know, out here,
04:10there are still guys going out for the season.
04:12Kendrick Bourne got hurt the other night on a, you know, poor.
04:16Brandon Crossley, a young cornerback, tackled him to the ground.
04:20Not smart.
04:21Not something you want to see.
04:23We also have to remember that these guys have more data.
04:26We know that Vrabel's using it.
04:28They all wear these catapult systems.
04:30They look like jogging bras.
04:31So they have data that tells them exactly how each player is feeling.
04:39And maybe there's been about four days where I thought that the Patriots
04:43could have done more than they did.
04:45They chose not to.
04:46And maybe that's because Vrabel's seeing data that they're sort of on the brink.
04:50And he says, you know what?
04:51I'm going to play the long game.
04:52I'm going to take my foot off the gas instead of pressing on it.
04:55So what does that show, like dehydration, heart rate might be up,
04:58like the stupid computer is dictating this?
05:01Sports science, yeah.
05:02Yeah, I mean, that shows a lot of stuff, like, you know, how tired they are,
05:08you know, oxygen levels, you know, things like that.
05:12I mean, I don't have this stuff in front of you.
05:13It's got lactic acid buildup or something.
05:15I hate this timeline you live in.
05:16Of course you hate it.
05:18And, again, I'm not commenting whether he's right or wrong
05:23or it's going to work or it's not.
05:25I will say I'm a little disappointed from an entertainment value standpoint
05:29that I'm not – I don't feel like I'm getting the full Vrabel.
05:32So he's busted chops with the media a couple of times, which, you know, we all like.
05:37But I don't feel like he's pushed any buttons with his players.
05:40I don't feel like he's busting balls with his players.
05:43He's had chances.
05:43They turned the ball over a crap ton the other night.
05:45And I felt his answer yesterday sort of excused most of it.
05:48Well, it sort of hid the good things that we did.
05:50I'm like, really?
05:51There was a prime opportunity to sort of send a jab
05:55or send a little message to your team, and he went just the opposite.
05:58Mays had a couple of days.
05:59His first-round pick, you know, this is hardly Bill Parcells.
06:03Yeah, she's doing okay with Terry Glenn in 1996.
06:06It's like Will Campbell's had some ups and downs where I thought Vrabel
06:09could have gotten into him and give me a little Vrabel there.
06:12I don't feel like I'm getting any of it, Greg, in other words.
06:14And that's obviously intentional.
06:16Yeah.
06:18Yeah, I think he's definitely taking it slow in regards to that.
06:23I can't tell you the reasoning, you know, for it.
06:26I did also want to mention, you know, in terms of, like, this camp
06:29and how light, which I didn't mention, there's, like, no hitting in this camp.
06:36I mean, last year you had Mayo had sessions where they actually tackled to the ground,
06:40something that I hadn't seen in years.
06:41And, you know, what all NFL teams do in these practices is they thud.
06:46And that's basically, you know, the first tackler, like,
06:49gives them a good enough hit to basically stop them in the tracks.
06:53But you don't knock them back and you don't take them to the ground.
06:56The Patriots barely thud.
06:58It's more like, you know, two-hand touch.
07:00So, you know, forget about tackling.
07:03And I just – I'll be interested to see how they handle the preseason games.
07:08How, you know, what guys are going to take part in the joint practices.
07:11Like, are we going to see Morgan Moses?
07:12And certainly not Carlton Davis.
07:15You know, how are they going to handle the preseason games?
07:18And this is another thing with Vrabel.
07:19So, like, the way it's been described to me is that Morgan Moses just waltzes off the practice field at any moment.
07:25And it's okay.
07:26Like, he just walks off a practice.
07:29And Carlton Davis hasn't even walked onto one.
07:33As McGreg said, he's just walked through.
07:34And this is a guy that missed the entire offseason.
07:37Didn't show up for any of the voluntary stuff.
07:39Wasn't he the one that was zipping around on the jet skis during one of those voluntary sessions?
07:45I think so.
07:46But Vrabel just lets him waltz on and off the practice field.
07:50I don't hear Vrabel call anyone out.
07:52Not even the rookies.
07:53Not even the slow-moving targets.
07:55And I guess, like I said, it's a different day.
07:59You can't get away with it.
08:00Like, whatever.
08:02I was just hoping for some of that, Greg.
08:03I mean, you know, Morgan Moses didn't even take part in the walkthrough today.
08:07And, Mike, that's another departure.
08:10Like, we used to see under Belichick, like, they would have jog-throughs.
08:14Or they might have lighter days when they're in, like, shells.
08:17No, these guys come out in shirts and shorts, ball caps, and sneakers.
08:23Like, I'm sorry some of them don't wear flip-flops out here.
08:25And that's what they go through in their walkthrough.
08:28They've had three of those walkthroughs, which is many as fully padded practices that they've had so far.
08:34And, like, Morgan Moses didn't even take part in the walkthrough today.
08:37So, look, Mike's way smarter than me.
08:41And he has his reasons for doing these things.
08:45You know, I just hope he knows what he's doing because, you know, the Patriots got to hit the ground running this year.
08:51They can't afford 0-1, 0-2, like happened on occasion in Tennessee.
08:57And we'll see whether he's going to have them prepared.
09:01Are there even competitions going on on the field?
09:04This one, I've been a little fixated on Will Campbell.
09:06You know, I admit, it doesn't feel like he's been competing for the job.
09:11It feels like, you know, I know Vrabel said the other day he's earned what he's been getting.
09:15I don't see where he earned it from the very first camp.
09:18He was on the first team, left tackle spot.
09:20And he's been there the entire time since, even though he's had some ups and downs.
09:23I don't feel like he's had to earn the job.
09:26Are there other spots like that?
09:29Well, you know, on Campbell, I would say, you know, he's had like a rough week, or at least in my opinion, he had a rough week.
09:37But talking to people around the team, they love him.
09:40They think that he's doing great.
09:43And they don't have any concerns about him.
09:45You know, not having Lowe out here has hurt things.
09:50They tried to do things in the offseason in terms of free agency.
09:55Didn't come to fruition.
09:57I'm sure they would have rather had that route.
10:00As far as competitions, you know, all five offensive line spots are taken care of.
10:05They have their starting five right now.
10:09You know, wide receiver down the depth chart.
10:13There's battles there for five, six, and seven if they end up keeping seven, which I had on my latest 53.
10:19I would say safety.
10:20There's a lot of competition.
10:21You know, to me, it looks like Kyle Duggar could be on the outs.
10:25With Craig Woodson, the rookie, sort of stepping up.
10:28They have a bunch of guys at safety, and it'll be interesting to see if Duggar ultimately is on this team.
10:35Whether he's traded or released the cornerback, depth cornerback spots, there's a lot of competition.
10:41But that's about it.
10:43And, like, I understand your point, Mike, about competition and things like that.
10:49You just got to understand, like, where they were coming from from a roster perspective.
10:52They couldn't do everything in one offseason, and, you know, I think they're happy with the product right now.
11:01Okay.
11:01I don't know, like, would it be nice to see Morgan Moses, like, if there was a younger player who had a great camp start to get some reps at right tackle
11:12and to show Morgan Moses that, you know, you're actually going to have to put in some work to get this job, you know,
11:17but it's just they're doing the opposite thing.
11:19So, again, we'll see how that all plays out.
11:21I just think the approach is becoming clear.
11:23Do you have more on Duggar, Maz?
11:24Yeah.
11:24So, look, Greg, the thing that you wrote and just said about Duggar, to me, I kind of like.
11:31You tell me whether I'm crazy.
11:32I don't think they have a true free safety.
11:35I think that Duggar is more of a one-game player than a pass-game player, and he's a strong safety, as is Jabril Peppers.
11:43So, you tell me more about the Woodson kid and the other kids in camp.
11:46Are they better at reading pass plays and diagnosing, you know, the opposing offense, et cetera?
11:53And is Duggar being outplayed, or do you think that Brable's trying to make an example of him?
11:58I think a little bit of both.
12:00I wouldn't say that Duggar is quite being outplayed.
12:03Like, to me, you know, from my observations, I thought that yesterday, and you often get this.
12:12You get some lineup changes, and we saw this on the offensive line with Ben Brown taking reps at left guard.
12:17But after they had two days off in the in-stadium practice, the coaches are in the building.
12:20That's when they start talking about personnel and sort of where they are with the 53, and they say we're going to change some things.
12:28And to me, it was clear it was a little bit different today with the walkthrough, but how the hell can you tell anything from that?
12:34But in Monday's padded practice, to me, it was clear that Craig Woodson, the rookie, was getting a lot of first-team looks at Kyle Duggar's expense.
12:44And I think he's earned it.
12:46I like him.
12:47He's more of a free safety.
12:48He's very smart, anticipates well.
12:52I will say he had some plays made on him yesterday.
12:57You know, I don't know if that's the defense, zone, man, what, I couldn't tell you.
13:01But I know Kyle Duggar, to me, he's supposed to be healthy this year.
13:05He missed a lot of the offseason recovering.
13:08But to me, he is the exact same player he has always been.
13:11Because I saw him twice last week get beat over the top.
13:14Because he always has these plays, you can think of them, that have happened in games over the years,
13:19where he gets caught peeking in the backfield, and all of a sudden Josh Allen flicks it over his head,
13:24touchdown in the corner of the end zone.
13:25There were like two of those last week.
13:27And I think they're running out of patience with him.
13:29And he's making $14.5 million.
13:31Okay.
13:31And it's not even close to being worth that.
13:33He does take the cheese.
13:35He always has.
13:36But good.
13:36I just like hearing that thing about someone pushing someone else at a position.
13:41And you can see it in the reps.
13:43And they're challenging a veteran with a younger player who's earning it.
13:46Like, okay.
13:47And that's like Parcells-Belichick 101.
13:49I thought I'd be seeing that across the board.
13:52And, you know, it's obvious they've gifted Carlton Davis and Morgan Moses their position.
13:57They've gifted Will Campbell his position.
13:59You can waltz in, waltz on.
14:01Suck, be good.
14:02Doesn't matter.
14:03It feels, you know.
14:04But if you're telling me it's happening elsewhere, I'll take it.
14:06Good.
14:07I, you know, that's what I wanted from Mike Vrabel.
14:10Who else do you think might be in trouble, Greg, before we let you go?
14:14Well, I had on my last 53, sorry, I had five Patriots veterans that I would have on the trade market.
14:23Sorry, I'm just calling it up.
14:24That would be Kendrick Bourne, who feels like he's on the outs before he got hurt.
14:31Who else did I have?
14:32Cole Strange.
14:33You know, I will say he's starting to make a little bit of a comeback.
14:37It's basically him versus Ben Brown to see who is going to be the backup at center and guard.
14:44So they're both getting chances at that.
14:48Anthony Jennings, who I think is still a really good player and has done a good job.
14:52They have a lot of good edge guys, and he's not really a fit for what Vrabel does.
14:58I think they should be able to get something for him.
15:00Tavai, who's been hurt, I still don't see him as a fit, even though I think their linebacker room is very weak.
15:07It's one of the spots that's bothering me, along with tight end and center, especially.
15:13And also, you know, obviously tackle depth has been an issue.
15:16And, yeah, and Duggar was the other one.
15:18Okay, Greg.
15:19Before I let you go, thoughts on Maz up in the owner's box the other night at the Red Sox game?
15:24I wasn't saying, like, gotcha.
15:26I just thought it was hilarious.
15:27I had to say something.
15:28Kiss the rings, Maz.
15:30What was your tweet?
15:31What did you tweet out, please?
15:32I just said busted, you know, in response to Jimmy's tweet pointing out the Maz photo.
15:37Busted how?
15:38What do you mean?
15:39Just explain yourself.
15:40Busted, kissing the rings, kissing ass of a reviled owner in Boston.
15:46I learned to ask kissing from the best people, Greg, like yourself.
15:50Very good.
15:51I got to believe you kissed a few NFL losses.
15:54Yeah, just a few.
15:55Yeah.
15:55They're bigger on the NFL side.
15:56Oh, yeah, yeah.
15:57Well, that's appropriate.
15:58All right.
15:58Big Boy Tuesday officially begins next week.
16:00Greg, we'll talk to you then.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
16:01Bye.
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16:03Bye.
16:03Bye.
16:03Bye.
16:03Bye.
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16:04Bye.
16:04Bye.
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16:04Bye.
16:04Bye.
16:05Bye.
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