- 5 months ago
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) criticized President Trump during an interview with CNN's Dana Bash about his "Fight Oligarchy" tour.
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00:00It's good to be with you here. We're in Wheeling, West Virginia, and it's so fascinating that this is part of what you call your Fighting the Oligarchy Tour, because this is a state where Donald Trump got 70 percent.
00:15Really? No, not tonight.
00:17Well, yeah, and this was an auditorium that was packed. It was at capacity.
00:23Still, what makes you think that your message tonight is going to resonate in such a red state?
00:30Well, among other things, when I ran for president, I think here in West Virginia, we won every single county.
00:36Look, this is a working class state. It's one of the poorest states in the country.
00:40People are hurting, and they want candidates to come before them to stand up for the working class and take on the oligarchs who have so much economic and political power.
00:52So I think the message will resonate here. I think it will resonate in many red states throughout the country.
01:00Because at the end of the day, 60 percent of our people live in paycheck to paycheck.
01:05They don't want to see tax breaks for billionaires. They don't want to see the rich get richer.
01:10They want health care as a human right. They want to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.
01:15They want to be able to live in housing that they can afford.
01:17One of the things that you talked about here, as you've been talking about since even before it passed, is what the president calls his big, beautiful bill.
01:26Cuts to Medicaid, other programs. 25 percent of West Virginians receive Medicaid.
01:3215 percent rely on food stamps.
01:35And yet, as I mentioned, West Virginians overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump.
01:40How do you square that circle?
01:42Well, that's a longer story that has to do with the failure of the Democratic Party in general to speak to the needs of the working class.
01:49This used to be, decades ago, one of the strongest Democratic states in the country.
01:52Now it's a strong Republican state because I think in many ways the Democratic Party has turned its back on what was its base.
02:00But I think our job and the reason I'm here and the reason we go to red states all over the country is to make it clear that there are some of us who are prepared to stand up for the working class.
02:11And if we become, if we stand together, if we're united, if we don't let Trump divide us up, there is no stopping what we can do as a nation in terms of improving life for ordinary people.
02:23You said the Democratic Party has turned its back on the working class.
02:27You'd said something pretty tough when you were speaking to this crowd about Kamala Harris.
02:32One of the reasons, in my view, that Kamala Harris lost this election is she had too many billionaires telling her not to speak up for the working class of this country.
02:44Ouch.
02:45Well, no, I think, I mean, I don't think that that's, I like Kamala, she's a friendly one, but she was, her core consultants, you know, were heavily influenced by very wealthy people.
02:56How do you run for president and not develop a strong agenda, which speaks to the economic crises facing working families?
03:08You know, more income and wealth inequality today than we've ever had.
03:11You have 60 percent of our people living paycheck to paycheck.
03:14You got a health care system which is broken and dysfunctional.
03:18And despite spending so much, we're the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people.
03:23How do you not talk about those issues?
03:24She talked about affordability.
03:26Well, but in a vague, I don't want to rehash that campaign.
03:29But I think, I think the clue to democratic victories is to understand that you've got to stand unequivocally with the working class of this country.
03:40You need an agenda that speaks to the needs of working people.
03:43Is it a radical idea that we join every other major country earth and guarantee health care to all people?
03:50Is that a radical idea?
03:51You tell me how many people are talking about that.
03:53Is it a radical idea to say that we've got to raise the minimum wage to $17 an hour?
03:58Is it a radical idea to say that in the midst of a competitive global economy, we need to make sure we have the best educated workforce that all of our kids, regardless of income, should be able to get a higher education?
04:10These ideas exist all over the world.
04:11They don't exist in America.
04:14And they don't exist because of the power of the oligarchs, economically and politically.
04:19All right, let's be clear.
04:20In my view, the current political system in the United States of America is broken and corrupt.
04:27Does anybody think that it makes any sense at all that Elon Musk can spend $270 million to elect Trump as president and then become the most important person in government?
04:40Billionaires should not be able to buy elections.
04:42And by the way, that's not just a progressive perspective.
04:45Conservatives understand that, too.
04:46What makes you so sure that the solution that you're offering, which is a more assertive federal government, is something that is going to fly in places where people have been voting in recent years, Republican, and have an inherent distrust of government?
05:04Well, they should.
05:05And they should have a distrust for a number of reasons.
05:10Government is too bureaucratic and not responsive.
05:12But, and let me tell you what I'm sure you already know, is that if you look at the polling, and I asked the people here today, you heard me ask.
05:23Anybody here think that the American health care system is vaguely effective?
05:32Nobody in America thinks it's working.
05:34We spend twice as much as other countries, 85 million uninsured or underinsured.
05:3960,000 people die a year because they can't get to a doctor on time.
05:42Do you think that in America, with all of our genius, all of our capabilities, we, spending so much money, cannot provide a high-quality system that guarantees health care to all people?
05:53And do you think people here don't know that?
05:55They know.
05:55They know we can do it.
05:57Throughout Europe and other countries, you don't have to leave college $50,000, $100,000 in debt or half a million dollars in debt if you're going to medical school.
06:05That makes zero sense.
06:07Look, let's be clear on the message of tonight and what I will continue to give.
06:12You have a government today that is run by the wealthiest people in this country.
06:17They are extremely greedy people.
06:19They want it all.
06:21And we've got to stand up to them.
06:23Unfortunately, for many decades, that has not been the Democratic Party.
06:26And that has got to change.
06:28I'm sure you've heard about some Democrats who are talking about embracing the so-called abundance movement, the idea that liberal politicians have created too much regulatory red tape, and it stops government from getting anything done.
06:45I spoke recently to Democratic Congressman Richie Torres, who said that Democrats shouldn't be the party of more government, but the party of better, cheaper, and faster government.
06:55What do you make of that idea?
06:56Well, I think that it is clear.
06:57Look, I deal with bureaucracy every day at the federal level, at the state level, at the local level.
07:02It's absolutely true.
07:04To build a house, to do this, do that, you have to go through all kinds of things.
07:08To apply for, you know, Medicare, you've got to fill out 87 forms.
07:12Dealing with your insurance companies, you've got to fill out a million forms.
07:14We live in a world which is much, much too complicated.
07:17So if the goal is to make sure that within environmental safeguards, we can move forward much faster, the answer is yes.
07:25But that is not the fundamental problem facing America.
07:29The fundamental problem facing America is that you've got a handful of oligarchs who have enormous wealth, enormous economic power, enormous political power, and they want even more.
07:39That is the fundamental issue.
07:41Should we make government more efficient?
07:43Absolutely.
07:43Just a couple of political questions.
07:46President Trump suggested this week that the vice president, J.D. Vance, is probably the favorite to take over the so-called MAGA movement.
07:55You know, he's from this kind of area.
07:58I mean, he's from Appalachia.
08:00He probably has appeal in red states and working class areas.
08:06Do you think him being an heir to the MAGA movement is something that should be concerning to Democrats trying to defeat MAGA?
08:16Not my thing at all.
08:17I really don't know.
08:18I don't particularly camp.
08:19I think he has nothing really, neither Trump nor he nor the Republicans of today, have anything of significance to say to working class people.
08:28But what they're trying to do is to divide us up, or you're a Muslim, you're undocumented, you're black, you're gay.
08:33Let's divide everybody up so the rich can become richer.
08:36Our job is to bring people together.
08:38Doesn't matter to me, you know, who heads the Republican Party.
08:42Redistricting.
08:43Yes.
08:43What's going on in Texas?
08:45Republicans are pushing to redraw the state's map to try to bolster the House GOP majority, eliminating Democratic seats.
08:53I know you have been a very, a longtime opponent of gerrymandering with redistricting.
09:00But you also say the Democratic governors should, quote, fight fire with fire and redraw.
09:06There are a couple of things here.
09:07Yeah.
09:08What is quite incredible.
09:09I mean, see, we are taking Trumpism kind of as normal.
09:13Trump is the one who came up with the idea.
09:15He says, hmm, let's see, Texas, I think we can get five more seats.
09:19Do it.
09:20Oh, yes.
09:20Yes, sir.
09:21You're the great leader.
09:22We will do it.
09:23And they're often trying to do it.
09:25So everybody knows what's going on.
09:27It is undemocratic.
09:29It is outrageous.
09:30And yet you think Democratic governors should try to push back and do the same thing?
09:34Well, I think they have no choice.
09:36I mean, what Trump is trying to do, he understands that there is a good chance that Republicans will lose control over the House.
09:44I would hope the Senate as well.
09:45That'll be a tougher fight.
09:46So he's trying to make, you know, in his authoritarian way, say, hey, I don't want to lose elections.
09:51Let's rig the system.
09:52Give me five more votes in Texas.
09:55Maybe some other states.
09:56So what should Democrats do?
09:57Sit back and say, oh, gee, Trump is doing this terrible.
10:01We can't do anything.
10:02Let them win the election when they shouldn't.
10:05So Democrats have got to fight back.
10:06I think it's pathetic.
10:07But I think that's what they've got to do.
10:10Even though you have said that gerrymandering undermines the political process?
10:15Of course it does.
10:15Yeah.
10:16What we have now is a terrible situation.
10:18And Republicans are making it worse.
10:20But what do you do?
10:21If Republicans are doing it, you have to respond.
10:24It's pathetic.
10:25But I think you have to respond.
10:26The president announced that Vladimir Putin is going to come to Alaska on August 15th, and
10:34they're going to meet.
10:35First, what's your reaction to Vladimir Putin coming onto American soil for this meeting?
10:41Vladimir Putin is a really awful guy.
10:43You know, when you talk about oligarchs, Putin is one of the richest guys in the world, running
10:51a kleptocratic society, and then he invaded Ukraine with incredible destruction.
10:58I mean, tens and tens and tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have been killed.
11:04People in Ukraine are suffering terribly because this guy wanted to start the largest war since
11:11World War II in Europe.
11:12So, you know, I'm not a great fan of Vladimir Putin.
11:16What about the idea of this summit or the meeting?
11:18Look, you know, it's the bloodshed and the suffering is terrible.
11:21If, in fact, an agreement can be negotiated, which does not compromise what the Ukrainians
11:27feel that they need, I think that's a positive step.
11:29We all want to see an end to the bloodshed.
11:31Do you trust a Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin deal?
11:36Well, it's not, it can't be Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.
11:40The people of Ukraine, obviously, have got to have a significant say.
11:44It is their country.
11:46So if they feel, the people of Ukraine feel that the agreement is positive, that's good.
11:50If not, that's another story.
11:51Let's talk about Israel.
11:53Yes.
11:54Israel's security cabinet approved a plan to take control of Gaza City.
11:58Your response?
12:00Look, Israel had a right, of course, to defend itself from the terrible terrorist attack from
12:07Hamas.
12:08But what they have done since then is gone to war against the entire Palestinian people.
12:15There are now some 60,000 who are dead, most of whom are women, children, and the elderly.
12:26You've got 18,000 kids, kids who have been killed, 3,000 children who have had one or another
12:31limb amputated.
12:33And now, on top of all of the destruction, human destruction, incredible destruction of
12:39their housing, of their schools, of their universities, of their health care systems, on top of all
12:47that, what Netanyahu does is impose a blockade, preventing food to come in, and people are starving
12:52to death.
12:54So I think the good news is that we're making some progress.
12:59I offered a resolution, as you know, a couple of weeks ago.
13:02We got 27 votes from Democrats to stop military weapons going to Gaza.
13:11No Republican support.
13:12But you know what I think?
13:14I think Republicans at the grassroots level are also catching on that it is not a great
13:19idea to provide billions to a government that starves children.
13:22Would you say Hamas has some culpability in people starving?
13:26No.
13:26Why?
13:27When they spent so much money building tunnels and everything under the ground?
13:30Right now, what is going on is a slaughter, all right?
13:37And right now, Israel is, you know, with few exceptions, is in control of the military situation.
13:44It is not Hamas.
13:45Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization, all right?
13:48And I certainly hope they have no future in a new Gaza or Palestine.
13:55But the fault right now is 100% on a Netanyahu government who has waged an all-out war, committed
14:05just, I mean, it's war crimes.
14:07They are war crimes.
14:08Netanyahu is a war criminal, just as the guy who was head of Hamas is a war criminal.
14:13And the United States taxpayers should not be funding Netanyahu.
14:17You have been critical of Benjamin Netanyahu for a very long time.
14:20But I want to ask you just about something that sometimes gets lost, especially right
14:24now when this debate is so emotional and so raw, which is, especially on the left, which
14:30is take Netanyahu out of this.
14:33Do you believe in the notion of Israel as a Jewish state?
14:37Yeah, I do, for a lot of reasons.
14:41But right now, what Netanyahu has done, what the Israeli government has done, is become
14:48almost a pariah state.
14:49And I fear very much that Israel now is looked in very, very unfavorable light by people all
14:57over the world, all over the world, not just in the United States.
15:00I was told that West Virginia was a conservative state.
15:05Somebody got it wrong.
15:08Something that I'm sure you have seen, a Gallup poll.
15:11Did you see this Gallup poll?
15:13Yep.
15:13And what the Gallup poll found was that you are one of the most widely admired Americans.
15:19And I believe you're only second to the Pope.
15:24You want me to declare my candidacy for Pope?
15:27Is that what you're asking?
15:28Don't think, I don't think that you're eligible for a lot of reasons.
15:31Then I won't do that.
15:34I watched you tonight.
15:35I've watched you for a very, very long time.
15:38You're obviously still full of vigor and intensity for the things that you're passionate about
15:45and have been for decades.
15:48Is there another presidential run in you?
15:50Oh, God.
15:51Let's not worry about that.
15:53I am going to be 84 years of age next month, as a matter of fact.
15:57So I think that speaks for itself.
16:00Right now, what is more important, in my view, and I want to say, obviously, the most progressive
16:08candidate that we can have, is to rally the grassroots of America.
16:14But a moment ago, you asked me about West Virginia and why people vote for Donald Trump.
16:18Our job is to turn that around.
16:20Our job is to educate and organize and give people, working class people, an agenda,
16:27which understands that in the richest country in the history of the world, we can, in fact,
16:35provide a decent standard of living.
16:36But Senator, you know better than I that you could have a very hungry and energized base
16:45with an idea of what they want.
16:47But if they don't find leadership or find the person that can articulate that, it doesn't
16:55change.
16:55Well, you're asking a complicated issue.
16:57I think strong grassroots movements will bring forth the appropriate leadership.
17:03I think when people give up on the political process, when you have a handful of billionaires
17:07deciding who will run, which is the case right now.
17:11Are there people out there who will, that you feel comfortable and confident, will take
17:15up the Bernie Sanders mantle and run in 2028?
17:18Will they stand up and fight for economic and social and racial justice?
17:23Absolutely.
17:23Some great young people.
17:25Want to name names?
17:26No.
17:26Thank you so much.
17:30It's nice to see you here.
17:31Okay.
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