On the sidelines of the International Conference on Human Fraternity in Jakarta, we speak with Professor Azza Karam, Secretary General of Religions for Peace, about the urgent need to hold not just politicians but also religious leaders accountable in today’s divided world. From the weaponization of religion to rebuilding moral authority, she reflects on what it takes to reclaim public trust and re-center faith institutions as forces for peace, dignity, and human fraternity.
00:00Because religious actors, whether they are religious leaders, religious institutions,
00:14religious non-governmental organizations that do development and humanitarian work,
00:18constitute a very important part of the social, political, cultural and economic framework of our lives.
00:2484% of people around the world admit to or affiliate openly to a particular religion.
00:31So religions matter deeply in our lives, not only because of the values and the gatekeeping about cultural and social norms,
00:41which obviously religions do, but also because actually if you look at basic social services around the world,
00:48health care, education, sanitation, nutrition, it's religious organizations that provide them.
00:53Everywhere around the world. The average is 35% of basic social services being provided through religious institutions and services.
01:02This means that you and I have a very strong likelihood of having gone to a religious institution at some point in time,
01:08religious schools and universities which are amongst the most accomplished.
01:13So religions generally matter hugely to the infrastructure of our lives.
01:18This is a reality that has nothing to do with the Western European world where they think that they have put religion aside and in fact they have not.
01:25But the perception is not the same as the reality.
01:29So because religions matter and because religious leaders and political leaders are working very closely together in many parts of the world,
01:38you can see today whether it is the war in Ukraine, there is a collusion between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian presidency.
01:47Whether it is in the context of Israel-Palestine, you can see a very strong collusion between the political leadership and usually right-wing extremist religious leadership on all sides of the divide.
01:57Everywhere you look, religious institutions, religious leaders and religious rhetoric play a very critical role in the political, social and cultural fabric.
02:06So yes, religious leaders matter a great deal if only because they bear a responsibility towards the rest of the society,
02:13but also because many of them are in very important positions of influence.
02:17So they are just as culpable, just as accountable to the populace as the average political leader.
02:23Precisely because religion is weaponized, it has to be part, those who speak and advocate and work in its realms have to be part of the solutions that are being on the table.
02:33We cannot dismiss religion since it's being weaponized, we can't dismiss and say we can't do anything with it.
02:38It's precisely because it is being weaponized that we have to find alternative ways of working with religious institutions and religious leaders and diverse religious actors.
02:48By the way, they make the secular actors look like they're a tiny minority.
02:52The general, the norm, the average is the religious actors.
02:55Precisely because they have a role to play in harm, they also have a very critical role to play in good.
03:02And if we look historically, we will find that there are religious leaders and religious rhetoric that's being used to do harm,
03:09but there is also the normal, the mainstream, which is religious rhetoric and religious services, as I was just saying,
03:14that are actually used to serve populations and to make peace and build peace and social cohesion.
03:21It's not a one-sided equation. They play a role on all ways.
03:24When religious leaders and religious institutions work together across the different religious, political, social, cultural divides,
03:31there's a very different tempo, norm, nature to that form of existence and engagement than there is to the religious leaders
03:40who do not work interreligiously or collaboratively.
03:43They are very different beings, just like if you and I do not collaborate, we are not the same as others who do.
03:49Right? So there is a different nature to interfaith religious leaders who collaborate.
03:54Precisely that domain, the interfaith domain, the multi-religious domain, is the opportunity, the catalyst for doing good.
04:04And those are the areas that I hold responsible when we don't hear them speak out against violations of human rights,
04:11because they should be the ones speaking out.
04:13If you're committed to working together across your religious differences, which are serious and plenty,
04:19but if you're committed to working together, you should be committed to upholding what is right and what is just.
04:26At a minimum, you should be committed to speaking out.
04:29Today, if you look at what's happening in Gaza, you see that Israeli human rights organizations have spoken out to take responsibility,
04:38to point and say, this is a genocide.
04:40We have yet to see a single interfaith organization actually stand up and say that.
04:45So I hold them accountable to that. You should be able to speak truth to power because you are part of the power.
04:51It isn't important for us to feel that we are fraternal towards one another.
04:56That is the bare minimum of human coexistence.
04:59It is very important that we serve each other's justice and rights,
05:04that I take into account your rights, you take into account my rights.
05:08It is very important that we both and all, as we work together in the space of human fraternity,
05:16we enact that fraternity on the basis of our community of justice and our rights.
05:25You cannot simply be nice to one another all the time.
05:29In fact, fraternity is tested most when things are tough, when conflicts are ongoing.
05:34What is it that distinguishes various domains of fraternity from various domains of actual active social cohesion
05:41and peace building is when fraternity is about service to others, not just to ourselves,
05:48but to others to make sure that social justice and the human rights of all is equally observed.
05:54That is fraternity in action and that's what we're missing.
05:57We have all the laws, we have all the institutions, we have all the norms, we have all the language.
06:01What we don't have is a fraternity joined in service to all on the basis of human rights and social justice.
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