00:00thank you swarab at the very outset i would like to uh appreciate the initiative of oclf of bringing
00:08people together from different rivals remains and acharaji it's an honor to be having this
00:12conversation with you thank you thank you so uh like i said this is like one of the opportunities
00:20where we not only can get educated like i said defining redefining like swarab reiterated these
00:26are the conversations that actually not only help us to understand the concepts we think we have an
00:31idea about but also strengthens the kind of brief system we have so acharaji i have your permission
00:37i would like to straight away uh please yes yes yes yes welcome yeah so uh you have quite an
00:47illustrious um you know standing when it comes to demolishing all that is false as your web theme
00:52reads and right so because i personally find that intriguing because in a world of distrustful
00:58agendas that people carry what has been your driving force because people either have blind faith in
01:04apparent leaders or they don't connect at all with this side of spirituality so how is it walking
01:10between these two extremes that you often come across
01:13you see both these extremes are one thing really when people go blindly into accepting something or
01:33somebody then they are not inquiring they are not questioning they are going by belief
01:42this belief this belief is on the traditional or religious side nevertheless it is a belief
01:53then there are people who reject stuff and are convinced that the entire field of wisdom or spirituality
02:06is fraught with charlatans and mischief makers even these people are not inquiring or questioning
02:18trying to seek the truth no that's not what they are doing they too are just believing
02:25and this belief is a little bit on on the progressive side so-called progressive side modern side liberal
02:42side whatever you want to call it nevertheless it is just a belief real wisdom or spirituality deals with
02:53inquiry it does not exist to reinforce beliefs on either end of the spectrum or anywhere in the middle of the spectrum
03:08so it's not as if one has to straddle between these two ends no not really in between them but beyond them above them
03:18one has to ask one has to question one has to try to understand you see Vedanta very emphatically elaborates
03:30and if you pay attention it comes from our everyday experience also that our nature is to know the nature of our
03:41consciousness is to know and without knowing we do not feel at rest at peace right that is the reason
03:49we do not like it when somebody lies to us because he has prevented us from knowing knowing what the truth
03:57the truth at a factual level the truth not at an absolute level but we are we are always looking for
04:06something we want to find we want to inquire we question so much even a newborn is touching this
04:14holding that groping in the dark doing doing stuff and it's very obvious that even in a in a one year
04:24or two year old the nature of the consciousness is to know so that's what spirituality is all about
04:30knowing not believing spirituality has nothing to do with any kind of any belief system people who
04:40think that wisdom is about believing that such things exist god or gods or goddesses exist or heavens
04:49exist or life after death exists or reincarnations exist or so many other things no no no that's not
04:59spirituality spirituality spirituality wants to find out and question in all possible ways including
05:07all means and at both ends it wants to find out the truth of what we see and the truth of the one who is
05:18seeing it wants to find out the reality of the seen universe as well as that of the seeing mind the subject and
05:28the object both have to be known that's spirituality so whether it's believers or atheists
05:43they from where i look at them belong to the same bracket they are living in ideologies they are living
05:53in imported knowledge into which they have not bothered to deeply delve and figure out the reality
06:14if right now we are we are conversating this way this is a spiritual process in progress a scientist
06:24in his laboratory experimenting to know what is really happening or what really happens
06:31is doing something deeply spiritual equally a person just sitting calmly and introspecting
06:42is doing something spiritual you write your diary you are reflecting
06:49on the day even as you have to retire to your bed at night that's something spiritual now this is
06:57spirituality spirituality is not some mumbo jumbo or system of superstition or this or that none of that
07:04i think that makes a lot of sense and it is a very different perspective when coming from you that
07:13you know they don't necessarily belong to two different classes it's just one way from where you see it and
07:19gives me a little insight as to how you look at people and i think that also supports why you're easily
07:24becoming people's uh maybe if i can say favorite person to go to these things because you uh whenever you're
07:31telling somebody something which they don't necessarily believe in you don't come out as
07:36an hostile person which is otherwise the case because if i'll go to some person who has the knowledge
07:41and if i tell them that i don't know this and may not really believe into this they either would belittle
07:47me number one or either they would be trying to put forth their opinions quite harsh way so if you
07:53are coming from a perspective like that that uh maybe you know we are both into the same uh i like
07:58the same part of the spectrum so it becomes very easy to speak to you and then the conversation might
08:03be more meaningful and more uh accommodating like if i can say as a viewer as a receiver or a listener
08:10so uh that's great acharaji i think the conversation the purpose of it is coming into the
08:15positive and getting to know what what goes behind of what looks in sand like it is very easy to say
08:22that uh you know you have people favorite or it is very easy to say that you enjoy a kind of audience
08:27which relates to you but behind this is this where you understand that it's not different at all it's
08:34just about knowing at the end of the day it is not relative to belief system it's just that the day you
08:39know is the day you would realize that we're just all the same yes you see if you if you read the
08:48central um texts of vidana the upanishads they are all in the form of conversations
08:58the entire process is very dialectic
09:02two people are conversating the seeker and the seer one is asking a question the other is saying
09:12something in response and then comes another question and then another response and it's not
09:18as if the seeker is sitting there already converted already prepared or predisposed to just accept anything
09:28there are series of arguments if you read how gargi and yagi valki are talking to each other
09:39you would often even sense anger in the respondent because the questions are so sharp similarly when in the
09:48bhagavad-gita arjun is not an easy one to convince at some point he even almost goes to the extent of
10:00accusing krishnan that krishnan is misleading him so it is not preaching at all in any sense it's a it's a
10:11conversation now that's where real spirituality comes from now contrast that to what we see even in
10:22some of the elite ideological circles today people are believing in stuff without knowing the facts
10:29the reality i'm i'm not here referring to the transcendental truth i'm referring here to the worldly facts
10:37for example somebody has a position on climate change somebody has a position on flesh consumption
10:45somebody has a position on on the on the farm laws and people are sticking to their guns
10:54and very stubbornly defending their opinions and you just scratch things a little and you discover
11:02that those opinions are without any factual base we do not even know what is really going on and yet we
11:09are so insistent on what we want to say now this is superstition so a lot that is very very modern
11:20is actually very very superstitious and a lot that is very ancient is actually very scientific very pure
11:32and and very egalitarian in the sense that there is a conversation in which there is no real authority
11:41even if there is an authority the authority does not want
11:45you to accept his words merely because they carry the weight of the authority the words have to be weighed
11:54assessed on their own merit
11:55so that's the way of the ancients a way of equals a way of liberty a way carrying the most liberal and
12:07progressive values and contrast that to what you see as we said even in the most modern even postmodern
12:17circles today we call ourselves modern but we are actually operating from very primordial centers
12:25the center that we have inherited from the jungle
12:31the center of the animal no the way of the animal is not to inquire the way of the animal
12:37is to just rush after its animal instincts and later on then we use arguments to defend our instincts
12:47no that's not good at all that's not the way of consciousness to operate as per your instincts
12:53and then use logic or reason or argument to just defend your instinct that's that's hardly good
13:02you're quite an insightful person when it comes to understanding what is your method of approaching
13:08the content that you share with your audience i think uh to me this conversation not only tells me a lot
13:14a lot about you know how you approach like i said but also why you're so conveniently convincing if i can
13:23say that when you speak to someone probably less if somebody is getting to know this for the first time
13:28they might have their inhibitions but if they're working with you through this this idea that you carry with
13:33that you carry with you i think it's very easy to really understand it's very easy to imbibe and it's
13:39very easy to relate
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