- 6 months ago
As Insider calls on the North West's ESG champions to come forward, editor Simon Keegan interviews Weightmans environmental lead Simon Colvin who looks at the challenges, trends and opportunities facing businesses on the sustainability journey.
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00:00Hello, I'm Simon Keegan. I'm the editor of the Northwest Business Insider and today we're about
00:16to launch the second annual ESG Champions. So I'm joined by Simon Colvin from Waitmans,
00:24who's one of the heads of the ESG at Waitmans and also sponsoring this for the second year.
00:34So last year we featured ESG Champions in this issue of the magazine and we had some big companies
00:41in there, the likes of Peel and Bruntwood, but we also had some smaller companies in there who are
00:48becoming real innovators and pioneers in ESG. So Simon, first of all, welcome. Thank you. And
00:58tell us why was it so important for you to be involved in ESG Champions? That's a few reasons
01:04really Simon. I suppose ESG is really important to us as a business. We've got a really, really strong
01:08ESG programme ourselves. We're very proud of the programme we have and it would be great to share
01:11a bit more detail around that. And then also we're supporting a number of our clients with their own
01:15ESG programmes. And so again, it's good to be involved in this space. We have to talk about
01:20the work we're doing and to support other people too. So yourselves, first of all, Waitmans,
01:24you know, your own kind of ESG governance for you. What does that look like as a place to work?
01:32Yeah, so it's changed a lot over the years. It's something that's been in place probably for the
01:36last 12 or 13 years, starting from something that was quite basic and it's grown and developed and
01:40become more sophisticated over time. At the moment we have a programme whereby I work with a colleague
01:45called Abe Sravastava and Abe and I lead our ESG programme. Our framework then internally,
01:51we've got our own governance structure, which has changed. At the moment we have what we call an ESG
01:56advisory group, which is made up of senior board members. So we have our senior partner, a number
02:00of other senior directors from across the business. And we meet on a monthly basis to talk about all
02:05things ESG, getting across the business. And that's kind of guided by our ESG strategy that we've got.
02:11So it sounds like it's really embedded in the business. You haven't just got a recycling bucket.
02:16No, definitely. I think it's something that, for me, I talk about this concept of ESG that probably
02:21started over here and it's slowly made its way to the heart of the business. And now it's really,
02:25really core and central to what we do. I'm very proud.
02:27Yeah. Okay. So what are some of the ways that you will advise your clients on their ESG policies?
02:34Again, that's something that's sort of changed and evolved and developed over time. I think as
02:39the ESG arena has moved on and we've kind of learned from some of the projects and different
02:43things that we've been involved with the clients. At the moment, we tend to focus on four key areas.
02:48So we've got greenwashing and that's helping clients understand what it means to them as a
02:52business, but also if you've got greenwashing cases and they need support in that regard.
02:56So for any viewers who don't know what greenwashing is, just explain that to us.
03:00So it's the idea that at the moment, if people have a product or a service,
03:05and they're keen to talk about, I suppose, the sustainability elements of what they do,
03:09so where that, you know, either in terms of how they operate themselves or the products they produce
03:13and the footprint they have, sometimes people overstep the mark. Perhaps they're a bit too keen
03:18to talk about their green credentials. And it's actually when they don't have the data or information
03:22to support those statements they're making. Or I suppose at worst, you've got a company that's just
03:28not very environmentally friendly, but they're kind of pretending to be.
03:33Exactly.
03:34Yeah. So it's avoiding that. So sorry, I interrupted you there. What comes next?
03:40So we've got three other areas that we support clients with. Another area would be just around
03:44supply chain. Supply chain is a big topic for a lot of people at the moment. And so whether it's modern
03:49slavery or bribery and corruption in our supply chain, there's a lot of changing, developing
03:54legislation and regulation at an EU level in terms of supply chain. So a lot of clients need support
03:59in that context too.
04:00But that's a difficult one, isn't it? I mean, you know, if you're a manufacturer and you're getting
04:04things made in China, you're getting things made in India, you know, you're trying to remain
04:09competitive, aren't you, in the global marketplace. But then you can't just simply say,
04:15ah, that's our supply chain, that's not us. Because people are going to want to know that you've
04:20you've kind of audited this, aren't you? Absolutely. There's some pretty stringent
04:23due diligence requirements that are being imposed in terms of what people need to do to check their
04:28supply chains in terms of compliance. And you're right, it's a really hard thing to do, particularly
04:33when you've got people doing things in some far off jurisdictions. How can you actually see what's
04:37going on? Yeah. But it's something that people need to have visibility of and start to engage with.
04:42We then have, I suppose I'll call it reporting, if I want a better term, but that's really built
04:46around net zero. And the fact that a lot of sustainability in ESG now is around data.
04:52It's data in terms of performance. And it's how do you validate that data, it's having it
04:56externally audited. So there's a big reporting element to what goes on at the moment. And then
05:02the final area for us as a business is looking at things like climate change litigation.
05:06So we support a number of clients in the public sector, but private sector too.
05:10And climate change litigation is a huge issue for a lot of businesses these days.
05:14In what way, how does that manifest itself?
05:16So I suppose a good way of explaining it is you're thinking about the impact on the public sector
05:21and perhaps their role as a decision maker. So it could be things like air quality.
05:24If people are thinking about new projects or the way that they actually manage air quality
05:30in their areas, it could be thinking about things like heat, the impact of heat on people.
05:35It could be thinking about the impact of maybe invasive species and different things that are
05:39changing. It could be flooding. There's lots of different ways that it's impacting,
05:43particularly the public sector in the UK.
05:46And so ESG, I'd say probably 10 years ago, it wasn't high up the boardroom agenda. It's higher
05:54up now for sure. And I would say that it's not just people who are naturally predisposed to be
06:03eco-warriors that are interested in ESG, because it can be the difference between getting investment,
06:09can be the difference between winning a contract. It can be the difference between
06:12your business being acquired or whatever. So it's really important. Even if you're not kind of
06:18naturally sort of environmentally aware that for the good of the sort of profits of your business,
06:26it's something that's got to be on your agenda, isn't it?
06:28It has. And I think it does go up and down that boardroom agenda. And where it sits will very much
06:33depend on perhaps which sector you're in, the size of your organisation. But I always say that ESG
06:38touches every business in more than one way. And it will be something maybe under that E, maybe
06:43something under that S or something under that G. And we typically talk about the fact that most
06:48businesses will have a number of elements for strong ESG programme in existence, but perhaps they've not
06:54looked at it that way. And sometimes it's just a question of identifying those different threads
06:58and bringing them together to form those basic building blocks of an ESG programme.
07:02So people might have ESG policies without realising it?
07:05Yeah, they won't be called ESG, but it could be, you know, we talked about, you know,
07:09thinking about equality or thinking about modern slavery or health and safety or bribery and corruption.
07:14In terms of net zero, a lot of businesses now are subject to ESOS, which is the Energy
07:20Saving Opportunity Scheme or Streamlined Energy and Carbon Reporting. So there's lots of different
07:25things that would fit within a strong ESG programme that businesses are subject to from a regulatory
07:30point of view. There's lots of mandatory things that are in existence.
07:33So sometimes just looking after your staff and kind of doing the things that you need to do from
07:38a sort of compliance point of view could be the start of a nice ESG policy for you.
07:43Absolutely.
07:43But it's telling that narrative, isn't it? So if you were an owner-managed business,
07:48for example, and you were interested in getting private equity investment,
07:54they're going to want to know that you've got a solid ESG policy, I would say, in a lot of cases,
07:59aren't they?
08:00Yeah, they are. And when you think about all those different things that I've talked about,
08:02you know, if a business comes in and wants to invest in you, what better way to actually
08:07demonstrate the value of your business, just really from a compliance point of view, than to
08:10have all of those things in one location and they're pulled together in a coherent strategic
08:16sort of policy. You know, we do some work with private equity funds. And when you look at the
08:22work funds do in terms of their investment companies, they like to have a uniform way of
08:26managing those businesses in an ESG context, because it makes it really streamlined. And they
08:31get the data and they can see the risk. And then equally, you know, we do some work with
08:34innovation centres at universities. And again, so you've got these spin-out companies where they're
08:38trying to commercialise whatever the ideas might be. Again, we do some work with them to put in
08:43place basic ESG frameworks. And again, that's something they can grow with and develop with
08:47over time. But again, a really nice way of them being able to manage risk and demonstrate value to
08:52people who might want to come and invest in those businesses.
08:54Sure. So ESG Champions is going to be, we're going to highlight some of the people who are real leaders
09:00in the field of ESG. Perhaps not people who are just kind of doing it to tick a few boxes or try
09:06and get investment. You know, people who are really, it's at the core, it's in their DNA.
09:11That's what we're looking for, isn't it? But they don't have to be making billions out of this.
09:18They can be, you know, the smaller SMEs who are doing the right thing, can't they?
09:23So we're going to be launching this in the September issue of the magazine, aren't we?
09:27But we've got, as I say, we've got the online form that people can fill in.
09:32But one thing I want to ask you, because I've been here nearly 10 years and I've seen the kind
09:39of interest in ESG, as we say, it seems to have only been going in one direction.
09:45But now there's, you know, Mr. Trump is very vocal in the US and so parties over here like Reform,
09:54for example, are sort of following his lead when it comes to things like perhaps the type of energy,
10:00you know, whether or not it's wind farms or whether or not it's, you know, fossil fuels,
10:05but also some of the things on, you know, diversity and recruitment hires and things like that.
10:11So sort of, I suppose, personal feelings aside, do you think that because, you know,
10:19he's so vocal on these things that could start to influence British business and they could say,
10:24oh, you know, we're going to pull back a little bit on this ESG journey. You know,
10:29we're going to see that trajectory now start to nosedive, do you think?
10:34There's a few things to say in relation to that. I think one thing would be, you do see with some
10:39international organisations or US corporates that are based in the UK or in Europe,
10:43some of them have dialled down, I suppose, the strength of the message. So it's not to say they've
10:47stopped doing what they're doing. Maybe they talk now more about responsible business rather than
10:51sustainability or ESG. You know, I've been around for long enough. I remember when the markets crashed
10:57in 2008 and sustainability before that happened was becoming a thing. It was starting to take off,
11:04but the phone stopped ringing, you know, the economy sort of crashed around the world and
11:07sustainability completely dropped off a lot of people's radars. What's different about this time
11:11round is I think, you know, we've been through COVID and sustainability has not gone away. So it's here to
11:16stay. It deals with a lot of, I suppose, what I'll call global macroeconomic issues. And so while
11:22the political rhetoric that might come from different people might, I suppose I'll call it a bump in the
11:26road, I think actually the direction of travel is pretty consistent around things like net zero.
11:32Because we've got global warming, you can't get away from that. So we do need to reduce emissions.
11:37And you look at other topics that I think fall under that sort of into that arena, you've got things
11:42like circular economy. Well, that's pretty clear. We've talked about supply chain. You look at the impact
11:47on biodiversity. You look at the impact in terms of things like water consumption. You can't disagree
11:52that all of those things are happening. So while somebody's political views could have a short-term
11:56impact, I think the medium to long-term. So even if, let's say, for example,
12:00big councils in our region, let's say reform got in and said, you know what, we're not interested in
12:08wind farms and solar power. I've no idea if they would do that, but I'm using that as a for
12:13instance. They said, we're not interested in this sort of renewal and energy. We think net zero is
12:19costly and it's a waste of time. What effect would that have on business, do you think?
12:23So I think reform at the moment, they've obviously won control of certain councils, but a significant
12:29amount of the renewable energy developments are decided at a national level or they're based on
12:34national policy. So while some local decision-makers could perhaps think they're already
12:39to make life a bit difficult, they're not going to change the overall decision-making processes or
12:43whether or not projects will fail or succeed. Right. So overall that trajectory, it's still going
12:48to be on course. Do you think businesses are still going to be sort of keen to go for sort of net zero
12:56regardless? I think so because, you know, if you, I mean, an example would be, let's say the NHS,
13:02you know, people need to have a carbon reduction plan in place now for any NHS contracts over £10,000.
13:07Right. So if you've not got a plan in place to demonstrate how you're going to get to net zero,
13:11you can't bid for those contracts. So what reform are doing over here at a local political level
13:15isn't going to influence what a service provider to the NHS does in terms of the need to get to net
13:20zero. Now, if they, if they formed the government, you know, it could be different.
13:23Different matter. Yeah.
13:24It could be very different.
13:25We're a way off that, I think, aren't we?
13:27We are.
13:28Okay. Well, well, Simon, I think we've looked at ESG in, in all of its different facets.
13:33Yeah.
13:34I'm certainly looking forward to working with you on this, on this project.
13:38Yeah, me too.
13:39So we've, we've got ESG Champions, as I say, it's going to be online. The link's going to be below this video.
13:46So people can put your nominations forward and you can see some of the companies
13:50that we had in last year as well. And then I think we, we've got a couple of events planned
13:55on the back of this as well. So it'd be nice to meet some of the businesses as well, won't it?
13:58Absolutely.
13:59Simon Colvin, thank you very much.
14:00Been a pleasure. Thank you.