- 6 months ago
Jamie Osborne joins this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss his Belmont contender Heart of Honor and share what it means to him to share the Triple Crown experience with his daughter, jockey Saffie Osborne.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast, presented by Keeneland.
00:00:33My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and also co-host of the Down the Stretch Radio Show on Sirius XM Radio with Dave Johnson.
00:00:41How y'all doing? I'm Randy Moss, NBC Sports. Ready to roll here, even though we're not doing the Belmont.
00:00:48So, Zoe Cabin with First Racing and First TV. I didn't die last week, whitewater rafting. Almost, almost, but not quite.
00:00:58We had a man overboard. We got some fabulous pictures, but it was a lot of fun.
00:01:04Wow. Okay.
00:01:08Anyway, so let's get into, obviously, today's show is going to be all about the Belmont and the major races on the Friday and Saturday cards as well.
00:01:17Naira goes, every single year they put together, since they've been doing these Belmont festivals, just a tremendous card.
00:01:26I think next to the Breeders' Cup is the second best day of racing in the sport.
00:01:31So, why don't we do this, guys? Let's go down horse by horse, each one in the Belmont.
00:01:38Just give her a few, you know, a few words about them.
00:01:40Do you think they can win, have a chance, outside chance, no chance, et cetera?
00:01:44And we'll do it in post-position order, so I'll go with Hill Road first, who won the Peter Pan last time out for Chad Brown.
00:01:52It was not a particularly good Peter Pan.
00:01:55He was third in the Tampa Bay Derby, beaten a long way.
00:01:58Nice enough horse.
00:01:59I don't think he has the class to handle this Group 1 company.
00:02:02Now, the footnotes say stumble at the start.
00:02:07You have to look with a microscope to see a stumble.
00:02:10It was really just a really mild bobble.
00:02:13And he was way back early in the Peter Pan, as he always is, but he had a dream trip.
00:02:18Saved ground, tipped out, as usual, didn't change leads coming down the wire,
00:02:24and still managed to run down the horses in front, but in slow time.
00:02:28So, I just don't think he's fast enough.
00:02:30I don't believe he's fast enough either.
00:02:33He won the local prep.
00:02:34We'll see what he does at Saratoga.
00:02:36Honestly, if it was a mile and a half, he'd have a way better shot than he would do at a mile and a quarter.
00:02:42He will pick up the services of a Rad Ortiz, which could help him perhaps stay a little bit closer.
00:02:47Rad doesn't like to be at the back of the pack.
00:02:50So, it's going to be a bit of a squeeze for Hill Road.
00:02:54Number two is the Derby winner, Sovereignty.
00:02:56Do you guys think he'll be the favorite?
00:02:59Yes.
00:03:00Yes.
00:03:00Okay.
00:03:01All right.
00:03:01Yeah, I agree.
00:03:02Favorite over journalism.
00:03:04You know, what's not to like about this horse?
00:03:06He's been so consistent.
00:03:08He ran a terrific race in the Kentucky Derby, trained by Bill Mott.
00:03:12Now, it's kind of like, you know, to me, I hate to just point out the obvious,
00:03:16but the obvious things about this horse lead me to believe that he's the one to beat.
00:03:20I know journalism is a nice horse and ran a tremendous race in the Preakness, but on Kentucky Derby Day, they met one another.
00:03:29I didn't think journalism had any serious excuses, and Sovereignty beat him.
00:03:33It's kind of A plus B equals C, but he'll be my pick in the race.
00:03:37I'm checking the weather.
00:03:40Go ahead, Randy.
00:03:41Rain.
00:03:43I want to see how much rain.
00:03:45I was told one to two inches from Friday to Sunday.
00:03:50Yeah, 80% on Saturday.
00:03:53I mean, the weather's in his favor as well because he sluiced through that muddy track on Derby Day like he absolutely loved it.
00:04:02By intermischief, he's by Harlan's Holiday out of a Bernardini mare.
00:04:05No problem handling that whatsoever.
00:04:08He's come back and worked just fine.
00:04:10You know, he's never going to blow your mind in the morning about how he works,
00:04:14but he worked solo and worked well enough in 48 and 4.
00:04:17So he is the horse to beat because he's fresh.
00:04:22Yeah, I mean, I saw nothing in the running of the Kentucky Derby that would make me think that journalism should have beaten Sovereignty or Baeza should have beaten Sovereignty.
00:04:35Now, we'll talk about Baeza.
00:04:36He got in a little bit of traffic, but did I think, you know, he would have won otherwise?
00:04:41No, and Sovereignty now has the advantage, I think, because he skipped the Preakness, so again, he's fresh, and went straight to Saratoga.
00:04:50So he's been training at Saratoga for this race.
00:04:55If it was a mile and a half, maybe you might have a little bit of a question mark about intermischief at a mile and a half.
00:05:01But at a mile and a quarter, just like the Kentucky Derby, he should be the favorite.
00:05:08Number three is Rodriguez, Bob Baffert's horse with Mike Smith aboard.
00:05:13Horses probably will go to the lead, though there's some other speed outside of him, primarily Crudo, the Bobby Flay horse.
00:05:21But, you know, I'm so used to just knocking the Wood Memorial because it's just not producing any Kentucky Derby winners or horses that are coming closer to the Derby.
00:05:32But it has to have a better record in the Belmont.
00:05:36I love Lone Speed, especially in the longer races, but I do think that the other horse, Crudo, will keep up with him early.
00:05:44And, again, it's a question of quality.
00:05:47He won the Wood Memorial against, you know, horses that just aren't of the class of Belmont Stakes.
00:05:54And then, you know, he couldn't handle journalism and Citizen Bull in the San Felipe and Robert B. Lewis.
00:06:00If he gets out front by five or six lengths and they go with six farongs and 115, he might just pull it off, but it's going to take that.
00:06:07Yeah, I mean, I don't pay any attention to the Lewis or the San Felipe because I think those were circumstances.
00:06:11I think he's much better on the lead.
00:06:13And I think Mike Smith will try to put him on the lead as he did in the Wood Memorial.
00:06:17I was prepared to pick Rodriguez because he was going to be the Lone Speed in a paceless race.
00:06:23And then Todd Pletcher decided to enter Bobby Flay's Crudo, who's got as much and maybe even more speed than Rodriguez.
00:06:30I don't know.
00:06:30But at the very least, I think he'll keep Rodriguez from completely controlling soft early fractions like he would have otherwise.
00:06:39So I had to back off my Rodriguez fetish there, Zoe.
00:06:45And you never love altered plans because, you know, he missed the derby, sore foot.
00:06:50He was supposed to run in the Preakness, missed the Preakness, still not good enough to run in the Preakness.
00:06:55He's come back.
00:06:56He's worked okay.
00:06:57I mean, 24 and 2 is a good time.
00:06:59But watching him, he's just not sparkling for me.
00:07:05He's going to have to run the race of his life to beat the other ones anyway.
00:07:09So I'm probably going to take a backseat on Rodriguez as well.
00:07:14One thing about Mike Smith, though, he's good out of the gate and he will make it known that he is going to the lead.
00:07:19So go with him at your peril because that's his only shot to try and win this race is to put this horse on the lead.
00:07:25And everyone will know that.
00:07:26So you're either going to commit and put your horse at risk as well, or you're going to let Mike go.
00:07:34Number four is Uncaged.
00:07:35Todd Pletcher and Windstar Farm and Rapoli Stable are the co-owners of this horse.
00:07:40Honestly, I don't understand what this horse is doing in this race.
00:07:43You've got Trounce and the Peter Pan.
00:07:45Other than, you know, I maybe shouldn't be putting words into their mouths.
00:07:50But I think Mike Rapoli just loves the slime light and the action.
00:07:53And, you know, he probably said to Todd, what do we have for the Belmont?
00:07:56And he'd say, well, we got this uncaged horse.
00:07:58And I see Rapoli saying, fine, run him.
00:08:01You know, he'll be front and center.
00:08:03He'll be on TV a lot.
00:08:04And I like Mike Rapoli.
00:08:05I think he's really good for the game.
00:08:07But in this instance, he's running a horse or he and Todd Pletcher is running a horse that has absolutely no chance.
00:08:14Got two things in his favor, Bill.
00:08:16Two for two over wet going and one for one at Saratoga.
00:08:20Okay.
00:08:21So you got horse for course and conditions for course as well.
00:08:25You're getting Louis Sires aboard him for the first time.
00:08:28Anything can happen.
00:08:29It's not a full field.
00:08:31Anything can happen.
00:08:32I don't know if this can happen.
00:08:36I'm just thinking of some pluses there, you know.
00:08:39I hate dogging people's horses.
00:08:41Those are the pluses.
00:08:43You can do a lot worse than Todd Pletcher in the Belmont.
00:08:45That's for sure.
00:08:46In a perfect world, Rapoli would have grande for the Belmont Stakes.
00:08:51But, you know, obviously he's not 100% after what transpired at the Kentucky Derby.
00:08:55And then you didn't see him at the Preakness.
00:08:57So he's not really ready to run a mile and a quarter even, I think, in the Belmont Stakes.
00:09:02So I think Mike loves the Belmont Stakes.
00:09:05It's not just the limelight, the action.
00:09:08He loves the Belmont Stakes.
00:09:10And this is his chance this year, although not much of one.
00:09:16All right.
00:09:16Number five is Crudo, the horse we were talking about that could be a pace contender and might make life a little bit difficult for Rodriguez.
00:09:25This is a horse that I think, come Travers time or maybe come Breeders' Cup Classic time, is going to be really good.
00:09:32But I just don't think he's quite ready for this.
00:09:36This is another Pletcher horse owned by Bobby Flay and Jimmy Ventura.
00:09:41He's got the speed to make things interesting on the front end.
00:09:45He won the Sir Barton in a Cantor, a seven and a half lengths.
00:09:48But, Randy, the numbers are low, 84, 82.
00:09:52I just don't think he's ready for this.
00:09:54I'm a little bit surprised that they decided to go here.
00:09:56You know, why didn't they just point for something like the Haskell and see if they could get him a little more experience and maybe a race in between?
00:10:04But I think this horse has a future, but I don't think he's a winner in the Belmont.
00:10:08Yeah.
00:10:09He's an analytics conundrum because when you watched the Sir Barton, I mean, he was very visually impressive.
00:10:20He wins by seven and a half lengths.
00:10:21The horse that he beat that finished second, just a fair shake, had just won the Tessio and had run like an 82 or an 83 buyer in the Tessio.
00:10:32So we were all expecting the Sir Barton to come up like at about a 96 or a 97 fig.
00:10:38But the time was the time.
00:10:41A mile and a 16th and 144 flat.
00:10:44I mean, you know, you don't give performance ratings.
00:10:46You give speed figures based on the time and the time came up disappointingly slow.
00:10:52So how do you view the Sir Barton?
00:10:55I mean, I view it really in my mind, handicapping is more like a 95 or a 96 or a 97 just because of the way he looked visually.
00:11:04But I still don't think that's enough for him to win.
00:11:07And he's not going to be on on a clear lead as he was because he's got Rodriguez inside of him.
00:11:14It's going to be a jockey's race for sure.
00:11:16And Johnny V, much like Mike Smith, those two are going to be on each other like white on rice.
00:11:23No problem for the distance for this son of justify.
00:11:26And it's Saratoga.
00:11:27I think a lot of these horses probably wouldn't be in here if it was a Belmont.
00:11:31It's the Saratoga Belmont Stakes.
00:11:35And it was such a festival and so much fun and such a party last year.
00:11:39Everybody wants to be a part of it.
00:11:42That's actually a very good point, Zoe.
00:11:44I didn't think of that.
00:11:46But Baeza, he'd be here if this race were going to be in run at Sportsman's Park.
00:11:51He is a very talented horse trained by John Sheriffs and the horse that just looks to be getting better with each and every start.
00:12:00So let's go back to the Kentucky Derby where he was third beaten in length and three-quarter by sovereignty and journalism.
00:12:06I watched that race three times this morning.
00:12:09Maybe I should have watched it five or six times more.
00:12:11He got in a tiny bit of trouble, but just a tiny bit.
00:12:16I don't think the trip cost him anything.
00:12:18And I think, just like we were talking about with sovereignty and journalism, I think Baeza was just the third best horse in the race.
00:12:25Now, they're not machines.
00:12:27He can run better.
00:12:28He can run worse.
00:12:28Journalism could have an off day.
00:12:31Sovereignty could have an off day.
00:12:33He's a very good horse, but I don't think he's as good as the big two.
00:12:38He's finally a three-year-old as well because I think his birthday is May the 20th.
00:12:43So he's a late foal.
00:12:44I went by and saw him last week at Sheriff's Barn.
00:12:48And it looks like he's going through a growing spurt as well.
00:12:50He's gotten really, really tall.
00:12:53But my God, is he beautiful.
00:12:54He is just a beautiful specimen of a horse by McKinsey out of the big brown mare, Puka.
00:13:00Of course, we know all about the brothers and Doorknock and everybody.
00:13:04He's a major, major player in here, but he's going to have to be a little bit closer in the running of this race, which I don't see is going to be a problem.
00:13:13He had a very nice work over the training track under Pratt, a solo work on the 2nd of June.
00:13:18And he looks sharp coming in.
00:13:20Pratt knows.
00:13:21Sheriff's knows that he needs to be closer.
00:13:25I didn't think he was a whole lot of trouble in the Kentucky Derby either, but he only finished a neck behind journalism.
00:13:31So I think he was the second best horse in the Derby, not as good as sovereignty.
00:13:36So then you look at, all right, what does that mean for the Belmont?
00:13:39All things being equal, and I want to preface with that, sovereignty goes straight to Saratoga and has been training in Saratoga.
00:13:50Baeza is flown back to Santa Anita and then from Santa Anita all the way across country to New York.
00:13:56All things being equal, I think that would give sovereignty an edge again coming back in the Belmont.
00:14:02But maybe all things aren't equal because Baeza is a late foal, as Zoe pointed out, and he seems to be improving with every start.
00:14:11So perhaps since his half-brother won the Belmont, that was a mile and a half, though, doorknock.
00:14:18No, that was last year.
00:14:19That was a mile and a quarter.
00:14:21Yeah.
00:14:21Last year at a mile and a quarter.
00:14:23Maybe Baeza has improved enough to defeat sovereignty this time.
00:14:29But in my opinion, it's going to come down to those two.
00:14:31And one thing you can't underestimate is being in your own stall, like Sovereignty has been in his own stall.
00:14:38Baeza was in his own stall, not Mr. Dare training, and got some sunshine on his back.
00:14:43If you go to Sheriff's Bar, you're rarely going to find that horse in the stall.
00:14:47The other day I showed up and he was outside standing in the sunshine.
00:14:51And I'm like, John, what are you doing to his legs?
00:14:54And he was just feeling the horse's pulse on his legs.
00:14:56He was stood out there for like 20 minutes, rubbing his legs.
00:15:00And like the stuff that John Sheriff's does with his horses is amazing.
00:15:04He's like, put your hand here.
00:15:05And it's supposed to beat like this.
00:15:07And he's so old school and new school.
00:15:10He has every technology known to man, yet he's an old school trainer.
00:15:15Every gadget, every heartbeat.
00:15:17He's got like six Apple Watches.
00:15:19Every tech thing you can put on a horse, John has.
00:15:23He's truly amazing.
00:15:24At now, did he just turn 80?
00:15:26He just turned 80 years old.
00:15:28At 80 years old, how tech savvy and old school he is.
00:15:32At the Kentucky Derby, when I was talking to him before Baeza got in,
00:15:37I had a phone that I use for communication.
00:15:40And I had another old iPhone that I use to record conversations.
00:15:44And he looked at me like I had three eyes.
00:15:46He said, no, no, no, you're doing it all wrong.
00:15:48He was telling me about the apps I needed to download and what I needed to do.
00:15:52He was, oh, this is the way you need to do it.
00:15:54I'm telling you.
00:15:55Yeah.
00:15:56He's amazing.
00:15:57He's techie.
00:15:58Yeah, he really is.
00:16:00All right.
00:16:01So can Baeza do it for the techie trainer, John Sheriff's?
00:16:04We'll certainly find out.
00:16:06Number seven is journalism.
00:16:09And matter of fact, he's the morning line favorite.
00:16:12Randy, I know I'm going to ask you this.
00:16:13Do you think that's not that it really means anything in the long run,
00:16:18but you don't think he will be the favorite?
00:16:20And Zoe, you don't either?
00:16:21No.
00:16:22He shouldn't be.
00:16:23I have great respect for the line maker and Naira,
00:16:26but I do not in this case as impressive as he looked in running down
00:16:31Gosger to win the Preakness.
00:16:33I still don't think the journalism will be the favorite in this spot.
00:16:37I would agree.
00:16:38No.
00:16:39And nor should he be.
00:16:40We said this a couple of weeks ago, and I'll say it again.
00:16:47If he was mine, I wouldn't be running him in the Belmont.
00:16:51But, you know, all honesty, if he was mine,
00:16:55I probably wouldn't have run him in the Preakness either.
00:16:57So, yeah, I would have missed that train.
00:17:01I think I've quoted this stat as well, which just goes to show you what is what journalism is up against.
00:17:07Since 2002, if you go back to War Emblem running in all three races and going to his nose at the start of the Belmont,
00:17:15there have been 48 horses that have just run in the Preakness and then the Belmont.
00:17:22Don't worry about the Kentucky Derby, which is another factor in this.
00:17:26Just Preakness, Belmont.
00:17:28Out of those 48 horses, including American Pharoah and Justify,
00:17:3341 of the 48 had a worse finish position in the Belmont than they did in the Preakness.
00:17:40That's a staggering number.
00:17:42That's 85%.
00:17:44And if you throw out Pharoah and Justify as complete outliers, it goes up to almost 90%.
00:17:50And that didn't even consider the Kentucky Derby for a third race in five weeks.
00:17:55So, to me, I'm expecting journalism to regress in this spot.
00:18:02And maybe I'm wrong.
00:18:03I hope I'm wrong.
00:18:04Maybe he's old school.
00:18:06But that's why I think it comes down to sovereignty in Baeza.
00:18:11He's a good horse.
00:18:12His work looked good.
00:18:1347 and 2.
00:18:14Huge gallop out.
00:18:15I thought maybe too big a gallop out for him the other day.
00:18:20Went out in 112, something ridiculous.
00:18:24Umby flew there to work him.
00:18:26I would have liked to have seen Ubi grab a hold of the reins and kind of reel him in a little bit.
00:18:31But the reins were flopping.
00:18:32And he just looked like a happy horse getting over the track.
00:18:35He's one of the few that actually worked over the main track and not the training track.
00:18:39So, coming in, we've said time and time again that a good horse can fool you into thinking they're doing great.
00:18:45And if any horse is going to fool any trainer, it's going to be journalism.
00:18:50And I hope I'm wrong.
00:18:52He looks good coming in.
00:18:54He's looked good training.
00:18:55And I'm wishing them the best of luck.
00:18:56It would be really cool to see him win it.
00:18:59I'm definitely rooting for journalism.
00:19:02Bill, what's your opinion in the whole journalism sovereignty, Baeza?
00:19:06Um, I think they'll run one.
00:19:09Honestly, I think they're going to run one, two, three in the exact same order they did in the derby.
00:19:14Now, that'll never happen.
00:19:16But, um, but that's what I could see happening.
00:19:20Um, and journalism, the, the, his run in the final 16th of the mile of the Preakness was just electrifying.
00:19:28I mean, just something you don't see, uh, horses do, but he was running down Gosker, which Gosker is not exactly sovereignty in Baeza.
00:19:38So, you know, you, you have to take that into account.
00:19:41Um, but he's a, he's a heck of a horse.
00:19:44And, and, but I just, he's got to prove me he's better in sovereignty.
00:19:47Do you want to see something really cool?
00:19:49Now I've had this photo forever.
00:19:50And Zoe Metz just texts me and she's like, you know who this is?
00:19:55You see that picture right there?
00:19:57Is that you?
00:19:57That's me with kissing a horse.
00:20:00We did a piece with XB TV for like the therapies and the salt spa and the water chamber.
00:20:08That's Moppetism.
00:20:09Oh, really?
00:20:10Yeah, we had it in the water spa.
00:20:12I've got a bunch of pictures.
00:20:14Hold on.
00:20:15Journalism's damn.
00:20:16Yeah.
00:20:16Here she is.
00:20:17She was so sweet.
00:20:18She was one of my favorites and we picked her to do this feature and, and that's her.
00:20:24Oh yeah.
00:20:25Isn't that cool?
00:20:26So I'm like, Oh God, maybe he's going to win now.
00:20:28Cause I, that just popped up today.
00:20:30Yeah.
00:20:31She was not only sweet.
00:20:32She could run.
00:20:33Yeah, exactly.
00:20:34Very cool.
00:20:36All right.
00:20:37Lastly is heart of honor.
00:20:39And pretty soon, uh, you're going to hear from Jamie Osborne, his trainer, a quite an entertaining,
00:20:44uh, Gainesway guest of the week segment that we have for you.
00:20:48So stay tuned for that.
00:20:50It's a great story.
00:20:51I love the father daughter thing.
00:20:52Um, he explained to us, I'm getting ahead of ourselves that, um, but the whole idea of
00:20:59buying dirt, a European buying dirt horses because he thinks they can do well in, uh,
00:21:05in the UAE on the dirt there.
00:21:07So this is a European based horse has never run on the grass in his entire life.
00:21:12He, he, the horse didn't break well in the Preakness, but again, it was just a kind of
00:21:17a minor thing.
00:21:18I don't think it cost him more than the length or two.
00:21:21Um, he looks, it seems like a good guy and it's really cool that he rides his daughter,
00:21:26but, uh, he's going to have to get a lot of improvement out of this horse to, uh, make
00:21:31him go to the winner circle.
00:21:33Looks like there's going to be a little bit of pace up front.
00:21:35So I can't fault the ride that Safi gave him in, um, in the Preakness stakes and she's
00:21:43going to have to ride every step of the way.
00:21:44Again, he said that they've been doing some gate work with him.
00:21:47So hopefully we'll see him just a little bit sharper than he was.
00:21:52Hopefully he got a little bit more used to the kickback because he ate a half of the racetrack
00:21:56during the Preakness, um, but he'll come running late and pick up some pieces.
00:22:03Really an inspired strategy to buy these dirt horses to run in Dubai over the winter because
00:22:10they love running in Dubai.
00:22:12And if you buy grass horses, you've got to run against Godolphin and Charlie Appleby in
00:22:17Dubai, which is almost impossible to do any good against, you know, birders row like that.
00:22:22Godolphin's best dirt horses are in America and they ship over maybe for the Dubai world
00:22:28cup or the, you know, some of the other major races like that.
00:22:33So he can compete against horses other than Godolphin in Dubai with dirt horses and heart
00:22:40of honor is, uh, has really started that strategy off on the right foot, but he's in a pretty
00:22:45tough spot, obviously in the bell line.
00:22:47Let's pin everybody down.
00:22:50I'm a sovereignty.
00:22:51Randy, your sovereignty sovereignty by is a exacta.
00:22:54Yes.
00:22:55Zoe.
00:22:56Ditto.
00:22:57Okay.
00:22:57So, so you will both like the sovereignty by is a exacta.
00:23:00I might even put by is a on top.
00:23:03Yeah.
00:23:04Yeah.
00:23:08What's that?
00:23:09Zoe.
00:23:09I'll go by is a sovereignty journalism.
00:23:11Oh, wow.
00:23:12Okay.
00:23:13The TDN writers room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:23:16It was a stellar weekend for Keeneland sales graduates who won a quartet of grade three
00:23:21races across North America.
00:23:24Nysos won the triple bend at Santa Anita.
00:23:26Fionne won the regret stakes at Churchill.
00:23:30And up at Woodbine, Caitlin, her greatness took the Bell Mahone stakes while Ms. Tart won
00:23:35the Royal North stakes.
00:23:36That's a mix of January, November, and of course, September graduates make plans to attend this
00:23:43year's September sale from September the 8th through the 20th.
00:23:47It all comes down to this good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, the moment that defines the
00:23:54year when the world's most influential buyers gather and every decision, every bid, every
00:24:02opportunity shapes the future at a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together
00:24:08and where futures are forged because every moment matters at the world's yearling sale.
00:24:16Keeneland, September.
00:24:19The fastest horse of the week is brought to you by Constitution, one of the fast sires
00:24:24at Windstar Farm.
00:24:26No convention is necessary to determine that Constitution is a very elite stallion.
00:24:32He was number five on the general sire list in North America last year.
00:24:35He's number six right now, thanks to fast horses like pinup Betty, who won Sunday's grade
00:24:41three mint julep stakes at Churchill Downs and a stakes record 140.55 for the mile and
00:24:48a 16th on grass.
00:24:49Windstar congratulates the Wyckoff Family's Three Diamonds Farm, the owner and breeder of
00:24:56pinup Betty.
00:24:56And obviously, congratulations to Constitution, who stands at Windstar for a fee of $110,000.
00:25:02Fastest horse of the week, no surprise.
00:25:06The aforementioned Nysos, that five and a half length winner of the triple bin at one
00:25:10to five odds.
00:25:11That win earned him a career high buyer speed figure of 108.
00:25:16Nysos was coming off the only loss of his career in the Churchill Downs stakes on the
00:25:20Kentucky Derby undercard.
00:25:21But that loss carries a giant asterisk.
00:25:24It was a tough field.
00:25:25It was his first race in 15 months, right?
00:25:29He had a wide trip.
00:25:30He was running on a sloppy track for the first time and taking kickback for the first time
00:25:35and still lost by only a neck to mind frame.
00:25:38Nysos is now four for five lifetime.
00:25:40Those four wins have come by an average margin of eight lengths.
00:25:43And we're a long way out.
00:25:45But Nysos has to be considered one of the early favorites for the Breeders' Cup sprint.
00:25:54Welcome in now to Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:25:56And it's trainer Jamie Osborne.
00:25:58We are talking to from his office in the UK, but on Saturday afternoons, running Heart
00:26:04of Honor in the Belmont Stakes, also ran the horse in the Preakness.
00:26:07Jamie, welcome.
00:26:09Thank you very much for having me.
00:26:11So, Jamie, the first thing I want to ask you about, it's interesting that a European trainer
00:26:17would buy a horse like this.
00:26:18Not particularly well bred, doesn't have an ounce of turf in his breeding.
00:26:22Um, but you saw him as a dirt horse, but you're, of course, are training in Europe.
00:26:27So what was the thinking behind picking this horse up at the sales?
00:26:31Um, the motivation for buying him was, uh, that we were taking squads of horses to the Middle
00:26:41East for the winter, um, and just banging our head up against Charlie Appleby.
00:26:47Um, so 60% of the racing in Maidan in the winter in Dubai is dirt racing.
00:26:56So we were really only able to take horses for the 40%.
00:27:00Um, and Godolphin are so strong out there.
00:27:04They're really tough to beat.
00:27:06Now, we have had success there, but a good example this year on the turf, I think we had
00:27:12seven seconds to Charlie.
00:27:14Um, so it can be a little bit frustrating.
00:27:18So we thought, why don't we try something different, um, and see if training a dirt horse
00:27:25is possible.
00:27:26So we bought a handful.
00:27:27And luckily, I mean, I can only do this with the backing of, I can convince somebody that's
00:27:32a good idea.
00:27:33And Jim and Claire Bryce, who very much enjoyed being in Dubai for the winter, they liked the
00:27:39idea.
00:27:40So heart of honor was bought, not with the American triple crown in mind.
00:27:46He was bought to entertain them in Dubai during the winter on the dirt.
00:27:51And thankfully he did.
00:27:53Second in the Al-Bastakaya, second beaten in a photo in the UAE Derby.
00:27:59So when we chatted with you at the Preakness, prior to the Preakness, you pointed out that one
00:28:04of the challenges in training heart of honor is his behavior on race day.
00:28:10Once he leaves the barn, as you pointed out, uh, how was it on Preakness day?
00:28:17Um, and what did you think about his race in the Preakness?
00:28:22Well, it was all going smoothly.
00:28:24The saddling process was good.
00:28:25And sometimes that can be a challenge.
00:28:27And I thought it was going quite well until he decided that he rather fancied his pony.
00:28:33Um, and I'm afraid, I'm afraid that it went horribly wrong from that point.
00:28:40Um, there was a moment where he, I think he did climb up on his pony.
00:28:45Um, so I'm not sure his mind was completely in the right place when he was loaded into the
00:28:50gate.
00:28:51And consequently, the gate was dreadful.
00:28:54Um, I mean, it made us look very European, didn't it?
00:28:58Um, you know, he was, he was, he was very slow away, very slow into stride.
00:29:04And then he faced a sandstorm like he'd never faced before.
00:29:09And I'm afraid he just, he just didn't go.
00:29:12Um, so it wasn't until Saf was able to wheel him out, uh, down the straight and get a bit
00:29:19of clear air that he actually raised a gallop.
00:29:22Uh, and I thought under the circumstances, he did quite well to finish fifth.
00:29:26Um, it was never our intention to be that far back.
00:29:30Um, and it was a set of circumstances really brought about by the stalls, by the gates.
00:29:36So, um, that obviously has been a focus of our attention, uh, since, since Pimlico to
00:29:43try and, to try and lessen the chances of the same thing happening again.
00:29:47That being said, I thought Safi rode him brilliantly.
00:29:52Uh, she must've been absolutely bloody knackered afterwards because she rode him for a mile
00:29:57and a half.
00:29:58She rode him every single step of the way.
00:30:01I actually just watched the race back and I was, it was remarkable that he even managed
00:30:05to finish fifth as far as I'm concerned.
00:30:07Uh, talking of the gate, what have you done to remedy the gate?
00:30:11Has he been there every day?
00:30:13Are you putting his feed tub in there?
00:30:15How are we getting him out of the gate for Belmont Saturday?
00:30:17Putting his feed tub in there.
00:30:20Are you allowed to say knackered on the TDN podcast?
00:30:24That'd be bleeped out on the block.
00:30:26Nobody knows what it means.
00:30:29Oh, really?
00:30:30Very, very British.
00:30:32Um, no.
00:30:33So Jimmy McCarthy, who has been at his side, both in Dubai and out here, knows him pretty
00:30:40well.
00:30:40And he's been in and out of the gate a lot in Saratoga.
00:30:46He was in there this morning, um, and just getting him to relax with it.
00:30:51And the footage that I've seen of him doing it, it looks like it's going quite well.
00:30:56Um, we did a lot of work with him before the UAE derby.
00:31:01Um, we weren't just able to do that into the Preakness because most of the days leading
00:31:09up to the Preakness, he was either on a airplane or in the lorry.
00:31:13Um, so, you know, it wasn't the perfect prep, but now that he's had sort of the guts of
00:31:19three weeks in Saratoga, we've been able to do what we want.
00:31:24So I think the, the chance of it being as horrible as it was in Pimlico, I think is,
00:31:30is, is slim.
00:31:31Um, look, he's never going to be first out of the gauge, but as long as he doesn't give
00:31:35himself such a big disadvantage this time, and he's able to just sort of sit a little
00:31:42bit closer, um, then he's got a chance of showing what he's capable of.
00:31:48I never felt in the Preakness that he really did that.
00:31:52Jamie, you mentioned, uh, excuse me, Zoe mentioned the Safi, who of course is your daughter who's
00:31:57been riding the horse.
00:31:58And how special is that as a father and as a horse trainer to enjoy this experience with
00:32:03your own flesh and blood?
00:32:05It's dreadful.
00:32:12I mean, I mean, she's always been a very difficult child and she's now a difficult employee.
00:32:25No, I mean, it is good.
00:32:28It is good.
00:32:28It's, um, it's, it's a whole different dimension to what I'm doing.
00:32:33Um, you know, imagine, imagine if she was just an ordinary rider and I'd have to sack
00:32:41her for the good of my business.
00:32:42I wouldn't go down very well, would it?
00:32:44But no, thankfully she can ride.
00:32:46And as Zoe just said, you know, uh, the ride in the Preakness was just one of perseverance
00:32:54and strength.
00:32:55Uh, she doesn't lack strength.
00:32:58This child, she's like a little weightlifter.
00:33:00Um, it's quite extraordinary.
00:33:02She won the genetic lottery really, because she's got three elder brothers that believe
00:33:06it or not, a six foot four, six foot three and six foot two.
00:33:09Um, and she's five foot two.
00:33:12So, um, as far as pursuing this career is concerned, she got lucky.
00:33:17Uh, and look, she is very strong and yeah, I do enjoy working with her.
00:33:21It has its moments.
00:33:23Um, but it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's different.
00:33:27Uh, and you know, if you take away the fact that she's my daughter, um, she does a great
00:33:33job for us, um, and look, she writes for a lot of different people now, um, and I'm not
00:33:41saying that every winner doesn't give her enormous pleasure, but I think she gets extra
00:33:47pleasure from one of ours.
00:33:49She knows how hard I've had to struggle through the last 20 years.
00:33:54And, uh, you know, so I think it's just, it's an added buzz for us both, um, when we're
00:34:01successful together.
00:34:03And yes, to be out here doing this on your stage, it's quite an extraordinary thing to
00:34:10do, isn't it?
00:34:11I mean, Safia and I never thought we'd be doing this.
00:34:14Um, so it's great fun.
00:34:16It is good fun.
00:34:17And, you know, I, yes, she lacks experience on the dirt, but she can ride, you know, she's
00:34:23not stupid and she knows the horse very well.
00:34:27You know, there were those before the Preakness that were wondering why or what didn't just put
00:34:31an American rider on, um, well, as far as we were concerned and as far as Jim and Claire
00:34:38are concerned, you know, they've known Safi, they're, they're friends of ours.
00:34:42They've known Safi, they've seen her grow up.
00:34:44It would be a very empty feeling for us if we were doing it without her.
00:34:49There's, it was never, never crossed Jim and Claire's mind not to have her on board.
00:34:55Um, so, you know, the, we were never going to use an American rider.
00:35:00Uh, we're a little team together, a little family operation, and that's how it'll stay.
00:35:06When I was talking to Safi before the Preakness, she detailed some of the injuries that she's
00:35:14already suffered as a jockey, including one spill that sounded horrific, all the injuries
00:35:20that she's had.
00:35:21So you've seen firsthand, not just her riding ability, but her toughness as well.
00:35:26Well, I'm sure she was exaggerating.
00:35:34Oh, look, yeah, look, she's tough.
00:35:37I've no doubt it isn't.
00:35:39Yeah.
00:35:40Her mother's tough.
00:35:41It's in the pedigree, you know?
00:35:45Um, she's very competitive.
00:35:48Um, and yeah, she's hardy.
00:35:52You know, she's grown up with three older brothers.
00:35:54Uh, you know, is it, is it nature or nurture?
00:35:57Um, she won't back down.
00:35:59She'll, uh, you want to try arguing with her?
00:36:03It's not easy.
00:36:05Jamie, can you talk to us about the experience that you had at the Preakness from the beginning
00:36:11of the week?
00:36:12The alibi breakfast was something perhaps you weren't, um, ready for because you got a bit
00:36:18of a roasting there and talk about the roasting that you got.
00:36:24Courtesy of Wayne Lucas.
00:36:26Yeah.
00:36:27Yeah.
00:36:28Well, someone, Zoe, you could have warned me.
00:36:30Um, I had to go and meet a state vet that morning.
00:36:33So I asked, I can't remember who it was.
00:36:35I asked if I could go first.
00:36:38So I, uh, I didn't actually realize quite what that breakfast was.
00:36:43So I was expecting a nice friendly international welcome from the coach, uh, and Rob Baffert.
00:36:52Um, but I certainly didn't get it, uh, but don't worry.
00:36:56Uh, don't worry.
00:36:57I can take it.
00:36:58And for those that weren't there at the alibi breakfast, I wasn't there.
00:37:05I just saw the cliff notes.
00:37:07What, what, what did coach say to you about writing your daughter?
00:37:12Um, he said, uh, well, he, you know, I, I was, I was sort of a little bit in awe of
00:37:18being there with the great D Wayne.
00:37:21Um, and the first thing he suggested was that I should just go home.
00:37:25It's a complete waste of time.
00:37:26Uh, and then he asked me whether it, he asked me whether this, this must be some sort of
00:37:31publicity stunt.
00:37:33Um, so I, I slightly got him back because he then said, how old is your daughter?
00:37:38I said, she's 23.
00:37:39How long has she been writing?
00:37:41I said, two weeks.
00:37:43So, uh, and then I had to go and see the state vet.
00:37:48So it was all over.
00:37:52I guess when you're 89 years old, you feel like you can get away with saying some things
00:37:56that maybe you couldn't in your, you, I realized, look, I took it in the best possible
00:38:00taste.
00:38:01Um, I realized now what that breaks was breakfast was about.
00:38:06And I think I felt a little bit sorry for Mr. Lucas because, uh, somebody put the clip
00:38:13onto Twitter or X and, um, and he, and people sort of thought he was just being a bit ignorant,
00:38:21but actually in the context of the whole thing, it was funny.
00:38:26So don't worry.
00:38:27I've got a sense of humor.
00:38:28Uh, I just wish I realized quite what the breakfast was about.
00:38:33Cause I would have been a bit more ready for him.
00:38:35Uh, he caught me off guard.
00:38:38Wayne, what kind of advice do you have for Jamie?
00:38:40Stay at home.
00:38:41Yeah, you can, you can't ship a horse.
00:38:48I mean, come on, let's be realistic.
00:38:50You can't ship him halfway.
00:38:50His daughter, your daughter's riding the horse, right?
00:38:52Yeah.
00:38:52That's great.
00:38:53Halfway across the world.
00:38:54Hey, put your daughter on it.
00:38:56I mean, it's a, you know, it's a publicity stunt.
00:39:01Crap.
00:39:01They don't serve crab cakes.
00:39:03I don't think.
00:39:03Yeah.
00:39:04I mean, there's no validity at all.
00:39:08Draw a line through that one.
00:39:09Wayne, what, what kind of advice are you going to tell Jamie to tell his daughter on race
00:39:13day?
00:39:16How old's your daughter?
00:39:1823.
00:39:1923.
00:39:20How long she'd been riding?
00:39:22Uh, a couple of weeks.
00:39:23A couple of weeks?
00:39:24Good.
00:39:24A couple of weeks.
00:39:26Jamie, you were a prolific winner over the jumps as a jockey, uh, 96 to 97.
00:39:32You had 131 winners who were second in the standings.
00:39:36Why then, when you retired, did you decide to train flat horses instead of jumpers?
00:39:42Um, because I don't like the English winters.
00:39:47Um, the, the worst thing about being a jump jockey is it happens in the winter.
00:39:53Uh, England is a horrible place in the winter.
00:39:56The days are very short and it's always raining and cold.
00:39:58That's why Zoe lives with you.
00:40:00Um, no, that's not really the reason, um, but it is a factor.
00:40:09Um, I don't know.
00:40:11There were lots of reasons at the time.
00:40:13Um, I didn't really want to be a trainer at all until retirement was really looming.
00:40:20Um, and I had to face reality, uh, that the first career was over or about to be over.
00:40:29And I had all sorts of ideas when I was writing about what I would do and wouldn't do.
00:40:33And then I just felt I wasn't kind of ready to leave the sport and I'd done nothing else
00:40:39all my life.
00:40:39I've been in it since I left school at 17.
00:40:41Um, and I thought, well, maybe it's a bit silly trying to go and earn a living elsewhere.
00:40:48Um, when the only thing I know is this sport at the time, I was a little bit stale with
00:40:54the jump racing, maybe.
00:40:56So I thought I'd just make life even harder and, uh, and switch over to flat racing and
00:41:03try and become a flat trainer.
00:41:06And I mean, the first year was a total disaster.
00:41:08I started with quite a big string for a first season trainer and I couldn't train a winner.
00:41:13Nearly sent myself bankrupt and it was, oh my God, it was awful.
00:41:17I wouldn't want to relive that year.
00:41:19And then luckily it picked up.
00:41:20We had a Royal Ascot winning two-year-old in the second year.
00:41:23And then we had a champion two-year-old in the third year.
00:41:26Um, so it got going, but, oh, it was a, it was a baptism of fire.
00:41:33Uh, it got going to the extent that, for those that don't know this, uh, I mean, you had a
00:41:40lot of success bringing over toast of New York to the United States who, uh, damn near
00:41:45won the Breeders' Cup Classic, got beat by only a couple of inches in a race that he probably
00:41:50should have won in hindsight.
00:41:53So now, so now with Heart of Honor.
00:41:55Now you tell me.
00:41:59So, so now with Heart of Honor, you, you're based in the UK, you buy a horse with a dirt
00:42:05pedigree to run in Dubai over the winter, which is why you're in the United States now for
00:42:12the Triple Crown.
00:42:12What do you do with him for the rest of the year?
00:42:15Do you circle the Breeders' Cup on your calendar?
00:42:17What happens next?
00:42:18Look, I don't think so because, um, nothing has really changed as far as Jim and Claire
00:42:26are concerned.
00:42:27He is their winter entertainment.
00:42:30Um, and I think if I were to look, let's see how we get on, on Saturday.
00:42:35Is he good enough for a Breeders' Cup Classic and all that sort of thing?
00:42:38You've got to question that.
00:42:39But if you were to aim in that direction, you know, I'd have to have him so ready there
00:42:45for the beginning of November.
00:42:46Could I then have him as ready?
00:42:50Would that, would that affect his chance in the winter of being at his best, maybe for
00:42:55a Saudi Cup or a Dubai World Cup?
00:42:58And realistically, I think that needs to be my priority.
00:43:02Um, this horse went to Dubai, um, in November.
00:43:07Uh, he lived there for five months.
00:43:10He came back.
00:43:11He didn't have long back here at home before he shipped, uh, to Baltimore.
00:43:17So I would imagine, you know, his stage of his life, you know, he's had a fair few runs
00:43:23and he's experienced more than most horses have, you know, for a horse of his age.
00:43:28And I would say a decent length of a break now when he comes back and then we'll work back
00:43:35from his Middle Eastern season.
00:43:37And my plan would be to take him to Dubai in November again, give him a prep run or two
00:43:43there at Maidan before hopefully getting a slot into the Saudi Cup.
00:43:49Um, 20 million dollars.
00:43:51It's quite attractive.
00:43:52And look, I would love to come back and have another go at a Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:43:58Um, and maybe hopefully one day we might have a horse good enough.
00:44:02I'm not sure it's this horse.
00:44:04Um, and who knows as a four-year-old, maybe he's going to progress and maybe it's something
00:44:10we can consider as a four-year-old.
00:44:12And I think as a four-year-old, he may be easier to give a U.S. campaign to in the summer
00:44:19and then give, uh, then have a Middle Eastern campaign in the winter.
00:44:23I think as a three-year-old, I think that's a really tough ask.
00:44:27And I, you know, as I say, he's, he had five runs in Dubai.
00:44:32This is going to be his seventh run, uh, on Saturday, um, in a relatively short space
00:44:39of time, we don't need to take him for granted.
00:44:42And I think if we're going to have any longevity with him and he is going to be able to be a
00:44:47winter sport provider for Jim and Claire for the next couple of years, then I think a break
00:44:54is going to be what's needed.
00:44:56Well, that was entertaining, to say the least, especially those stories about Wayne Lucas.
00:45:02Jamie, you are a delight.
00:45:03Thank you for being on the TDN Writers' Room podcast.
00:45:06Best of luck with Heart of Honor, where you'll go to the Belmont Stakes, along with your
00:45:10daughter, Safi Osborne, who'll be riding.
00:45:12Again, wishing best of luck and thanks so much for being with us today.
00:45:16Pleasure.
00:45:18Our guest of the week, Jamie Osborne, was brought to you by Gainesway, the home of Tappet, one
00:45:23of the most influential and breed-shaping stallions of the past half century.
00:45:27And of course, this is a good week to bring Tappet into any conversation.
00:45:31He's the sire of four Belmont Stakes winners, Tonalist in 2014, Creator and Taprit back-to-back
00:45:38in 2016 and 17, and Essential Quality in 2021.
00:45:43Tappet's Belmont Stakes record ties him with one other stallion, the legendary Lexington,
00:45:50who sired his fourth and final Belmont winner 147 years ago in 1878.
00:45:57So by strict definition, Tappet may not be one of a kind, but one out of every 147 years
00:46:03is not too bad.
00:46:05Tappet has also sired 29 other grade one winners, and he stands at Gainesway for $185,000.
00:46:12Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:46:27On this week's edition of First Things First, I caught up with George Wolfe, award winner
00:46:52Kendrick Carmouche.
00:46:53Here he is, stopping for selfies.
00:47:03Yeah, yeah, Louisiana in the house all the time.
00:47:05And everything.
00:47:06Yeah, yeah.
00:47:06You look very Californian with your shades on.
00:47:09You think so?
00:47:09You know, you think I belong in Hollywood?
00:47:12I love the big apple, you know, it didn't treat me good.
00:47:15I don't have the full apple, but I got a half an apple, which is good because you still get
00:47:19the seeds and you can plant more to get more, you know?
00:47:21You also have a George Wolfe award, and I've known you an awful long time.
00:47:27Long time, Zoe.
00:47:28A long, long time.
00:47:29But we're young.
00:47:30Yeah, of course we're young.
00:47:31Yeah, yeah.
00:47:32We're very, very young.
00:47:33So what does it feel like?
00:47:34Give me the essence of being a George Wolfe award winner.
00:47:37It's a pure joy because if you really do think about how much you've been around so many
00:47:44racetracks, you met so many jockeys, and they voted for you, you know?
00:47:49Like, it's like winning the Emmy award of all awards, you know?
00:47:53I think every jockey will want this award to feel good about themselves, you know?
00:47:59But it's just amazing.
00:48:01I thought the respect that I have given everybody throughout my career and throughout my life,
00:48:05I think that's where I'm at right now in my career, you know?
00:48:08It's just another step.
00:48:10Who's the number one person or the people that helped you along the way, Kendrick?
00:48:14Oh, man, I saved my family, you know?
00:48:16I got a tight circle, you know?
00:48:19My wife and my kids, they supported me.
00:48:21My in-laws, my mom, my dad, you know?
00:48:24It's just, it's a lot of love, you know?
00:48:26They kept fighting with me when I was down, you know, encouraging words and always keep
00:48:32God with you, you know?
00:48:34You don't have to go to his house to believe in him.
00:48:36It's all inside of you, and that's the way I see things in life, and that's the way I wrote.
00:48:404,000 winners earlier in the year, which is a fantastic achievement.
00:48:45Unfortunately, your father passed away.
00:48:47Do you feel like he's up there watching you right now and every moment?
00:48:50I feel like he's with me every moment.
00:48:52I feel like he might be up there, but he's with me at every moment.
00:48:56Every time I set myself on the horse, I feel like he's telling me to do these things out
00:49:00there now, and I think that's why you see me doing even better in such a sport that he
00:49:07loved and that I love, that he passed on to me.
00:49:09So, he was the best, man.
00:49:12I mean, he was a quiet guy, but, you know, he showed his talent on the racetrack in Louisiana
00:49:16and wherever he shipped, and I think I'm a prime example of him.
00:49:21All done, Kendrick.
00:49:22Absolutely brilliant.
00:49:23Now, I hear you wouldn't let your wife go shopping on Rodeo Drive.
00:49:27You told her just to keep driving.
00:49:28Yes, I did tell her that, because why?
00:49:30Once I saw the buildings, I didn't feel like my credit card could have gone in those buildings,
00:49:35you know, so maybe I should have came with a visa card instead of a debit card, you know,
00:49:40but, you know, I'm a regroup.
00:49:41We're going to go to Delaware in a tax-free state, and she can have my credit card.
00:49:45Well done, mate.
00:49:46Many thanks to Kendrick, a guy who always has a smile on his face.
00:49:58If you don't see him smiling, in fact, I don't think it's possible not to see him smiling.
00:50:02So, big thanks to Kendrick from that.
00:50:04Just a reminder that racing does continue at Santa Anita Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
00:50:10Join us to watch the Belmont Stakes on Saturday.
00:50:12You can watch and wager there.
00:50:14Gates will be opening at 7.30 a.m. on Saturday.
00:50:18And come and watch and drink some wine, as we have wine, place, and show on Saturday.
00:50:24Go to santanita.com for more details.
00:50:28Let's not forget, it's not just the Belmont Stakes on Saturday at Saratoga.
00:50:32Both on Friday and Saturday, it is a card to just marvel over.
00:50:36I mean, one grade one race after another, some of the biggest stars in racing will be out on the racetrack.
00:50:42And it's, like they say, worth the price of admission.
00:50:46I think most people would agree the second best race or the second most important race on the card is what you'd expect, because it usually is the Met Mile.
00:50:54And there's not a big field, but it is absolutely loaded with star power.
00:51:03And I'm trying to get to that page in my racing form.
00:51:07But fierceness is going to be one of the horses in there that absolutely you have to respect, as you have to, with White at Barrio.
00:51:14Just a bunch of real, real good horses in there.
00:51:17I don't really like that funky start that they have, that kind of half-turn thing.
00:51:23But, Randy, who do you like in the Met Mile?
00:51:27Okay, fierceness is even money.
00:51:31And, you know, I respect the heck out of fierceness.
00:51:35But what concerns me about fierceness at even money is, in this particular race, his inside draw.
00:51:44Because when you look at the horses that are going to be stacked up to his outside, you know, you've got White at Barrio.
00:51:50If he's got enough speed, just a touch.
00:51:53Raging Torn.
00:51:54There's a possibility that fierceness could get a rail pocket trip, which, looking back at his past performances, I'm not sure he's ever had.
00:52:04He's always been positioned to the outside, stalking trips because of his tactical speed.
00:52:11And unless Johnny can get him out, John Velasquez, he might be in a rail pocket trip here.
00:52:17And in even money, I think it's worth taking a shot against, especially at a one-turn mile.
00:52:23I think he's a little better at longer distances, I would think.
00:52:27Maybe I'm wrong.
00:52:28I'll take Raging Torrent at a better price at 5-1.
00:52:31I think he'll be able to control the pace, just like he did in the Godolphin Mile.
00:52:35He won the Malibu before that.
00:52:38You know, I'll go against the even money favorite, just for that reason only.
00:52:44And it's not really a one-turn mile.
00:52:47It's kind of a funky two-turn mile.
00:52:49Yeah.
00:52:49Because they start off in the Wilson chute.
00:52:52You know, when they first built the chute, I was like, is the one hole really at a disadvantage?
00:52:57Because you think he might get cut off quickly going into that turn.
00:53:01But it's proved to be kind of absolutely fine.
00:53:04Fierceness could not be training any better whatsoever.
00:53:08Does he have any experience around kind of one-turn or two-turn, as it is here?
00:53:15He broke his maiden.
00:53:17At Saratoga going six furlongs.
00:53:19So, that's good enough to me.
00:53:20He has a horse to beat in here.
00:53:22I kind of wish Nysos was here.
00:53:24Why did Nysos run at Santanita last weekend?
00:53:26He should be running here.
00:53:28And he'd be first or second choice.
00:53:30Second choice probably behind Fierceness, in my opinion.
00:53:35Fierceness is the horse to beat.
00:53:36I don't care about him being inside.
00:53:38He's just doing so well.
00:53:40And I will say one more quick thing, since this is such a big race.
00:53:44In my opinion, White Abario's six-length win over Locked and Skippy Longstocking in the Pegasus World Cup was just about as good as any race Fierceness has ever run.
00:53:55So, that just adds to the marquee value of this particular matchup.
00:54:01And we haven't even talked about Just a Touch and the way he's been running against lesser competition.
00:54:06What a race.
00:54:07All right.
00:54:08We'll continue on with another grade one, which is the Woody Stevens 7-4 arms.
00:54:12I had one thing to add just quickly about White Abario.
00:54:15Did we ever think, because the Met Mile is a stallion maker, right?
00:54:20Mm-hmm.
00:54:20Did we ever think we'd be talking about a horse two years later who won the Met Mile?
00:54:25So, White Abario won it in 2023, and here we are in 2025, he's still running.
00:54:30That's probably never going to happen again, right?
00:54:32Do you want to breed to a son of race day?
00:54:34That's the question.
00:54:36I don't know.
00:54:36Just throwing that out there.
00:54:38Okay.
00:54:39All right.
00:54:39Woody Stevens, as I said, comes up next.
00:54:44Seven furlongs on the main track for three-year-olds.
00:54:46This is a really good race.
00:54:48I'll say this, but I don't like Citizen Bull.
00:54:50I know he got caught up in a speed duel in the Derby.
00:54:53I like the jockey change from Martin Garcia to Mike Smith, but it looks to me like this horse
00:54:58is just not on his game, on his toes right now.
00:55:01I guess I'll go with Colloquial, and I'm not really sure about this, but the 106 buyer speed
00:55:08figure, and when he broke his maiden, was fantastic.
00:55:11He came back and ran quite a bit slower in the Lafayette stakes, where he did win.
00:55:16So, he's won two straight, including the maiden win, where he got a huge buyer number, 106.
00:55:22So, even though the races were three months apart, or two months apart, his regression
00:55:28in the Lafayette, I'll chalk it up to perhaps bouncing.
00:55:31George Weaver is one of the most underrated trainers in the business.
00:55:34I think he'll have this guy ready to go.
00:55:35I like Colloquial in here as well, but I'm still on Chancellor McPatrick.
00:55:45I like him with the blinkers off, and maybe he is a one-turn sprinter, after all.
00:55:50They tried and tried and tried, and he was just too slow.
00:55:54I believe going one turn, we'll see a better version of Chancellor McPatrick, which Randy will
00:55:59not agree with me whatsoever.
00:56:01I've already given you this.
00:56:02I know.
00:56:05I thought that was side eye for a minute, but it's side head.
00:56:11We're going to totally jinx Colloquial.
00:56:14I can go through here, and these are all really nice horses, right?
00:56:19I mean, I wish Big Truz had an outside post.
00:56:22I loved his last race against Patch Adams, but anyway.
00:56:24But you can find something to pick at with all these horses.
00:56:30If the track is sloppy, if the weather forecast holds, and it rains that much at Saratoga,
00:56:35and the track is sloppy like it was on Derby Day, Macho Music is going to be awfully tough
00:56:40to beat.
00:56:41And he's on the line at 8 to 1.
00:56:42Now, he's got even more speed to deal with gunmetal from his outside, who is a tremendously
00:56:48fast horse that might compromise him.
00:56:50But at 8 to 1, that's something to keep in mind.
00:56:53But Colloquial has shown in that maiden race, that 1.06, where he could stalk fifth, three
00:56:59lengths off the pace, and then just blew him away.
00:57:02So because of that and the 6 to 1 price on the morning line, I'll line up with you guys
00:57:08and take Colloquial.
00:57:10All right.
00:57:11The last of the grade ones on Saturday, the Resorts World Casino Manhattan, going a mile
00:57:17and 3.16 on the turf.
00:57:19This could be kind of a feel-good story.
00:57:23As we all know, Christophe Clement, somebody that was just thought of so highly in the racing
00:57:28industry, passed away last week, and the stable is now being run by his son, Miguel, who has
00:57:33two very good horses in here, Deterministic and Farbridge.
00:57:37As a matter of fact, I think it's a two-horse race between Farbridge and Spirit of St.
00:57:41Louis.
00:57:42Just it would be, you know, he'd have to be really kind of a grumpy, non-sentimental
00:57:49guy if he wouldn't be happy that he would win this race.
00:57:52I am picking Farbridge.
00:57:54I think he's been running very consistently and facing some pretty good horses.
00:57:58Spirit of St.
00:57:59Louis, I've just never, I can't even put my finger on it.
00:58:01I guess maybe because he's a New York bred, which isn't fair.
00:58:05But, you know, I remember this horse running at 100 New York bred races, and all of a sudden
00:58:09now we're talking about him being one of the best turf horses in the country.
00:58:12So I am going to go with Miguel Clement, the LSU stables.
00:58:16Apparently, no one in the stable went to LSU, and Farbridge is my pick.
00:58:22Larry Sarf University, LSU.
00:58:25Yeah.
00:58:27Look, let me just get this right out there.
00:58:29I'm pulling for Miguel.
00:58:30Miguel, he's such a nice guy, and it would be a fantastic story for the whole family,
00:58:36for Miguel.
00:58:37So I hope one of these two horses wins.
00:58:39I can't back them.
00:58:41Farbridge's recent wins, mile and a half, mile and a half, mile and a half, mile and three
00:58:48eighths.
00:58:49And as far as deterministic goes, he looked very good coming home to win by four and a
00:58:54half on an extremely firm turf course.
00:58:58He got away with an opening quarter in 24.19, just walking on the front end with a clear
00:59:04lead in a completely paceless race.
00:59:08And so I'm going to downgrade deterministic's win just a little bit because of that.
00:59:13Since it looks like the turf course is going to be soft, good, at least, spirit of St.
00:59:21Louis.
00:59:21He just keeps winning.
00:59:22And he won on a good course last time at Churchill Downs.
00:59:25I don't like five to two, but to me, he's still the horse to beat.
00:59:29I'll take 12 to one on Carson's run all day long and twice on Saturday.
00:59:34The son of Cupid, he likes a good bit of give in the turf course.
00:59:38You can say he probably needed that last race.
00:59:40We've not seen him since the Hollywood Derby, which he ran out here at Del Mar.
00:59:47He loves a little bit of give in the ground.
00:59:49It's great connections.
00:59:50We're all rooting for Miguel to win, you know, win a grade one on, you know, just a couple
00:59:56of weeks after his father passing.
00:59:58When deterministic set that easy first quarter pace in the Fort Marcy, who was last?
01:00:03Carson Run.
01:00:04Exactly.
01:00:05The pace really hurt him in that spot.
01:00:07And he's going to get some give in the ground.
01:00:10Yeah.
01:00:10I like him in there.
01:00:12How about the other grade one, the Jaipa, race number nine?
01:00:16Oh, I'm sorry.
01:00:16I skipped over that.
01:00:17Zoe, give me your opinion.
01:00:18I've got to find it first.
01:00:20Hold on.
01:00:21I'm still stuck on it endlessly.
01:00:22Well, I'll just set you up.
01:00:25I mean, you've got three wins in a row for Think Big, who's going to be the favorite.
01:00:29He's six to five in the morning line, Godolphin.
01:00:31I was going to try to take a shot against him because three of those recent wins, he's won
01:00:37four of his last five, were on good courses.
01:00:41So I thought maybe on a firm course at Saratoga, he might be one to take a shot against, but it's
01:00:46probably not going to be a firm course at Saratoga.
01:00:49So he's clearly the worst to beat.
01:00:51Although A.G.
01:00:52Bullitt, if she handles the going, what do you think, Zoe?
01:00:55I like Think Big in there.
01:00:57I don't know how he got up to win at Churchill Downs.
01:01:00I never thought he was going to get there ever, ever did I watch that over and over again.
01:01:05I never thought he was going to get there, but he got there.
01:01:08He handles the turf course.
01:01:09Ben Curtis rides him just brilliantly.
01:01:12A.G.
01:01:13Bullitt is better on the top of the ground, but she can handle a softer turf course.
01:01:18She got brutalized in the unbridled Sydney.
01:01:22Absolutely brutalized.
01:01:25Draw a line through that.
01:01:27She is way better than that.
01:01:28She is a must use.
01:01:30And a jockey change to Flavian Pratt in this spot as well.
01:01:34The TDN Riders are brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
01:01:39The first PA bred yearling show is on the calendar for Saturday, June 21 at Brandywine Polo in Chester County.
01:01:47There will be four classes plus a champion class beginning at 10 a.m. and ending somewhere around 2 p.m.
01:01:54Entry fee is $75, but there are $1,000 in prizes per class.
01:01:59The show will be judged by Russell Jones, and there will be a polo match to follow, perhaps with some ceremonial stomping of the divots.
01:02:08Yearlings participating in the show will be eligible for $40,000 in incentives at the end of their two-year-old and three-year-old seasons.
01:02:16To enter your yearling, go to pabred.com or give the PHBA a call at 610-444-1050.
01:02:23P.A. Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
01:02:31It's excitement at every step.
01:02:34Roses for Debra just set a new track record.
01:02:37On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
01:02:46Plus, P.A. Bread shine on the world's biggest stage.
01:02:49Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
01:02:52Learn more at pabred.com.
01:02:56Be a smarter bettor with First TV.
01:02:59The best horses.
01:03:02With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
01:03:10All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
01:03:15Everything you need to be informed.
01:03:18Be smart.
01:03:19Bet smart.
01:03:20With First TV.
01:03:22The TV and Writers' Room is brought to you by First TV.
01:03:28Saturday isn't only Belmont Day.
01:03:30It's Met Mile Day.
01:03:32And the probable favorite for the Met Mile, Fierceness, is our first TV work of the week.
01:03:38Fierceness worked four furlongs over the Oklahoma training track in company with Tuscan Sky on Thursday.
01:03:44The pair completed the distance in 49.85.
01:03:47That's Fierceness.
01:03:47That's Fierceness.
01:03:48On the outside, Danny Wright aboard him with his feet on the dashboard.
01:03:52This is a new Fierceness.
01:03:54I did not see this Fierceness last year.
01:03:56But in 2025, he is so much better than he ever was, which is very, very scary.
01:04:03Trainer Todd Pletcher that said he completed the Breeders' easily and impressively and said he was pleased with his energy level, appetite, and condition.
01:04:11Well, the Friday card is spectacular as well.
01:04:14Grade 1's up and down the card.
01:04:17Some very nice horses.
01:04:18And we start off with the Ogden Phipps, which is a race for older fillies and mares, going a mile and eighth on the dirt.
01:04:24And you're going to have a pretty – well, he's got a raging sea at 5 to 2.
01:04:28I think that horse will be much lower than that.
01:04:32But I'm with you, Randy.
01:04:33I think the Linemaker New York generally does an excellent job.
01:04:37But there's a couple here that are scratching my head a little bit.
01:04:40I mean, the only thing this horse has ever done wrong over the last year or so is to get beat by Thorpedo Anna in the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
01:04:49She's an obvious horse.
01:04:50She's an obvious favorite.
01:04:53You know, she should go to a good trip because there's enough speed in here to keep her randomized honest.
01:04:59I think Dazzling Move will show some speed, and maybe Leslie's Rose will show some speed as well.
01:05:03But, you know, this is one type of horse – I guess maybe the only thing, Randy, how do you explain that from a buyer's standpoint that she dropped from a 96 in the Breeders' Cup Distaff to an 85 in the La Troya Inn?
01:05:16Does that bother you?
01:05:18Yeah, it does bother me because it's a lot like Crudo.
01:05:21We were talking about his win in the Sir Barton on Preakness Day.
01:05:24This race expected to come up faster, although it was, you know, four horses together within a length and a half at the wire, which typically is a hallmark of a race that's not that fast.
01:05:35But 86 on the buyer's scale was legitimate and not especially fast.
01:05:41But I don't know who to like otherwise.
01:05:43I mean, randomized, set an easy pace in there, and she was beaten by an 86.
01:05:47I think something unusual might wind up happening in here, like maybe Candid.
01:05:55She's coming off a good win in the Allaire DuPont at Pimlico.
01:05:58I thought she'd be bigger odds.
01:06:00I'm surprised that she's as low as 3-1 on the morning line because I'm going to go with her.
01:06:04I like Raging Sea, but for all the reasons that you said, I'm going to try and go with Candid.
01:06:10And I don't think she'll be 3-1 whatsoever.
01:06:12All right, we move along now to the Acorn, the 11th race on the Friday card for three-year-old fillies.
01:06:20And here we go with good cheer.
01:06:22And at this point, you know, from here and there, I've tried to beat her.
01:06:27And the thing that's so amazing about her, you know, as you can hear me talk, I'm a big fan of the buyer speed figures.
01:06:33And Randy and the team do a great job.
01:06:35And you look at this horse, she's just not any faster than their competition.
01:06:40Matter of fact, this horse, Shred the Gnar, ran a 94 last time out, an allowance win at Churchill.
01:06:47That's good cheer has never run a 94 in her life.
01:06:51So if you want to be a wise guy, say, oh, she's not that fast.
01:06:53She's going to get beat.
01:06:54Forget about it.
01:06:55I'm done trying to be fancy.
01:06:57She's just a machine.
01:06:59And she's a pleasure to watch.
01:07:01And she's going to go out there and make it eight for eight.
01:07:05I can't pick her.
01:07:06I want her to win.
01:07:07I want her to be eight for eight.
01:07:09So I can't pick her because I've never picked her.
01:07:12And I have a horrible feeling if I pick her, she'll get beaten.
01:07:15So I will just root on the sidelines for good cheer because what she has done has been amazing.
01:07:21And I would love for her to, what is it, a triple tiara?
01:07:25Is that what we call it?
01:07:25You don't have that anymore.
01:07:26I know, but they still have it, right?
01:07:28I'm going to go for that.
01:07:30So I'm rooting for good cheer, but I'm going to pick Shred the Gnar.
01:07:33So I just hope that puts good cheer in the winner's circle.
01:07:36I think this race sets up for good cheer even more than any of her recent wins.
01:07:41Scottish Lassie's got the inside post, probably going to have to go a little bit.
01:07:45La Cara, nothing but speed.
01:07:47Shred the Gnar, wire to wire in her last two starts.
01:07:50Look forward, always looks to be forward.
01:07:51So there's going to be a really lively pace in front of good cheer.
01:07:56And I think she'll probably mow them down.
01:08:00Twelfth race, the New York Stakes, mile 316s on the grass.
01:08:05You have a three to five morning line favorite, and she feels pretty.
01:08:08Has won three straight races for Cherie DeVoe.
01:08:11Johnny Velasquez rides her.
01:08:13She's obviously the horse to beat.
01:08:15She's in great form right now.
01:08:17But I think she is beatable.
01:08:19I don't think she's that much better than everybody else in this field that you would want to take three to five on her with so many other options in here.
01:08:28And I'm going to give Miguel Clement another shout out for Beliza, the six horse.
01:08:34This horse came in from Ireland, ran in the Sheepshead Bay.
01:08:38It's a terribly dead slow pace, 52-3, 118-4.
01:08:42Was third early, overcame that, and got up to win.
01:08:45And again, it's just like you said, Randy.
01:08:47I mean, if you have any kind of heart, you'll be rooting for this stable to have a good day.
01:08:53And I think that they are going to have a good day.
01:08:54And Beliza, perhaps, will be one of their winners.
01:08:58Yeah, I don't think you can beat She Feels Pretty.
01:09:00I think she's the best American grass filly or mare.
01:09:05The distance is just fine.
01:09:06She's in great form.
01:09:07I don't like her three to five.
01:09:09I couldn't bet her to win, but I can play exactas or trifectas.
01:09:12So I'll take She Feels Pretty over Beliza and also give me another and flip-flop those horses behind the big favorite.
01:09:22She is the horse to beat with that question, but her worst race to date was at Saratoga over a turf course listed as good.
01:09:29So that's the one caveat I will.
01:09:31She was second, but she just never got rolling.
01:09:34She just seemed like she was stuck that day in the grade two Lake Placid as odds on.
01:09:41So she's without question the horse to beat.
01:09:43I don't know why I have a sneaky feeling that forever after all, even though she just won going a mile and a half, she's a little sharper.
01:09:51She's going to appreciate some give in the ground.
01:09:54And I have a sneaky feeling that she's going to outrun those 10 to 1 morning line odds.
01:09:58The Friday 13th race is the Just a Game stakes one mile on the main track.
01:10:07This is a really good field.
01:10:09Oh, man.
01:10:10And you've got usually, you know, the European shippers that come over here, like, you know, kind of bad group three horses, maybe handicapped horses.
01:10:17There are some serious European form in here.
01:10:22For instance, the horse that I'm going to pick is Choysua.
01:10:25Anybody have a pronunciation on that?
01:10:28Choysua.
01:10:29Choysua.
01:10:30Okay.
01:10:31She won a great.
01:10:32She won a group two and Mayden and another one at Mayden before that comes in and ships in for Simon Crisford to win the Jenny Wiley, which is all every year is a really, really good race.
01:10:43And she did it the right way to get 101 buyer in that.
01:10:49But I also, like, I don't know if it might officially be my pick, but I like a Lilac Rola as well.
01:10:55Now, one thing about her, she's only a four-year-old and she only has one start against older horses.
01:11:01But going, and she's also hadn't run since July, but going back to May, she ran second in the Irish 1000 Guineas.
01:11:07You know, that's as good as it gets over there.
01:11:09That's one of their classic races.
01:11:11So, I give her a shot as well for Resolute Racing, Jon Stewart.
01:11:16And this race is going to be fun.
01:11:18Oh, it's one of my favorite races on the two days.
01:11:21I love races like this because you get the top four finishers of the Jenny Wiley and the one-two could have gone either way, really.
01:11:30And then you've got Bill Mott bringing in a horse who hasn't run in a year, making her first start in the United States.
01:11:37The horse you mentioned, a Lilac Rola for Jon Stewart.
01:11:39But Mott's always fantastic off the bench, so you've got to expect her to be clicking on all cylinders.
01:11:46And she has great European form.
01:11:48I mean, Jon Stewart also owns Excellent Truth, who might have been the best horse in the Jenny Wiley.
01:11:55It's tough to say.
01:11:56What a race.
01:11:56It's a hell of a race.
01:12:00You have to like Shorzeer for Simon Crisford off of that.
01:12:03The fact she showed so much pace coming from Europe was amazing for me because I don't think anyone expected her to be on the lead.
01:12:11I believe that Excellent Truth was the best horse in that race and just got really hampered down on the rail.
01:12:19She gets Pratt back.
01:12:21We'll see what can happen with her.
01:12:23But there are so many ways to go in here.
01:12:26I mean, Special One just won the Honey Fox coming off a short layup for Brendan Walsh.
01:12:30She's good enough to win this race on her best day.
01:12:35It's a hell of a race.
01:12:37And I'm a Lilac Rola.
01:12:39Porta Fortuna, if she was in here, what kind of odds would she be?
01:12:43Right?
01:12:43I just hope for all these races, Friday and Saturday, in a perfect world, we have beautiful sunshine at Saratoga and a firm turf and a fast track.
01:12:55Naira deserves that because, Bill, I agree.
01:12:57This is the second best racing card in America behind the Friday-Saturday of the Breeders' Cup.
01:13:03Yeah, absolutely.
01:13:05The JD and Riders Room is also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:13:09We've already talked about the Manhattan, part of that fabulous Saturday undercard at Saratoga.
01:13:13Well, West Point will be represented in the Manhattan by both Carson's Run and integration.
01:13:20Last summer, Carson's Run won the Saratoga Derby, obviously at Saratoga, also at the same mile and three sixteenths distance as the Manhattan,
01:13:30which, remember, was shortened from a mile and a quarter last year.
01:13:34Carson's Run is trained by Miguel Clamont, who is trying to carry on the legacy of his late father, Christophe, who won the Manhattan three times.
01:13:43Meanwhile, integration reunites with Flavian Pratt, who rode him to victory in the Red Smith Stakes last fall at Aqueduct.
01:13:51Integration is trained by another three-time Manhattan winner, Shug McGehee.
01:13:56West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:14:23Visit westpointtb.com.
01:14:30That's a wrap on the Belmont Stakes edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
01:14:36I want to thank Mike.
01:14:37What are you guys smiling at?
01:14:39Lucy.
01:14:40Oh, Lucy.
01:14:41She's unconscious as usual.
01:14:43She didn't actually move or anything, right?
01:14:45I think I just saw a paw move.
01:14:47I saw it.
01:14:48She's dreaming.
01:14:49All right.
01:14:50So anyways, we thank Lucy as well as my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman, and our Gainesway guest of the week, Jamie Osborne, a very informative and entertaining interview that was.
01:15:03Also, the producers and directors who work behind the scenes, Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:15:09Everybody have a great Belmont Stakes Day, and we'll be back next week to wrap things up.
01:15:14And I encourage everybody to look up Bad Bobby if you want to see some true Jamie Osborne.
01:15:20In fact, I think maybe we should just play it right at the end of here.
01:15:24Monday morning, second lot.
01:15:27It's minus two, but it's a bit more.
01:15:29I can feel spring coming.
01:15:31There's Toaster, New York having a canter.
01:15:33The mornings are getting a bit lighter, and the winters are always quite long, but I think we've got the back of it broken now.
01:15:44Bobby has a less embarrassing coat on today.
01:15:47Thank you, Bob.
01:15:49Not quite that camp knitted thing that we had on her last week.
01:15:56Hathal, he will be entered Saturday and Monday.
01:15:59We'll hopefully find the right slot for Bobby!
01:16:01Bobby! Bobby! Bobby, come here!
01:16:06Flipping heck.
01:16:08Bobby!
01:16:10Oh, shit.
01:16:13Bobby!
01:16:14Oh, you stupid dog.
01:16:18Bobby!
01:16:19Bobby!
Be the first to comment