00:00You should be hearing me now. Lovely to see you this morning. Thank you, as ever, for coming on the show.
00:04Have you reached out to the Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, since she was crying in the Commons on Wednesday?
00:13Yes, I did. It was deeply distressing to have witnessed it.
00:16And, of course, I wasn't that far away, just opposite the table of the house there.
00:22Yes, so I messaged her shortly after PMQs, basically to say that I felt for her.
00:27And I hope that she was OK.
00:30And there's a report in the Mail on Sunday this morning suggesting that the Tories warned Labour about Rachel's tears 17 minutes before PMQs.
00:40So did you see that, Mr Stride? Did you see that she was distressed quite a long time before anyone else picked up on that?
00:51No, I didn't, Camilla. In fact, the first time I became aware of the situation was when Rachel came in and sat down.
00:59And then it was immediately apparent that everything was not really right.
01:03And, as I say, really quite, you know, quite upsetting to see it, really.
01:07It's very upsetting.
01:08And she's obviously cited personal reasons.
01:12But it is significant for the country, isn't it, if a Chancellor is seen to be in distress in public.
01:18It has implications for the markets.
01:21They didn't react well to what they were seeing.
01:23We then have resignation rumours flying around.
01:26Can we be honest here?
01:28Can we cut to the chase and say that perhaps this woman who did embellish her CV simply isn't up to the job?
01:35Well, I think I don't want to sort of personalise this around what happened at Prime Minister's questions,
01:44which we are told that there was a personal reason why Rachel was very distressed.
01:51I think we should just respect that.
01:53But stepping away from that situation, of course, absolutely terrible mistakes have been made with our economy,
02:00not just by this Chancellor but also by the Prime Minister, in terms of being a government that came in saying
02:07they weren't going to put up everybody's taxes, then clobbering businesses and destroying growth.
02:12They then have gone out and borrowed vast amounts of money, stoked up inflation,
02:16so we've got interest rates higher for longer, which is hitting people and businesses up and down the country.
02:22And, of course, overall mismanaging the economy by destroying the so-called fiscal headroom
02:28that the Chancellor has against her targets, which is going to mean, I'm afraid, increased taxes in the autumn,
02:35which are going to be really difficult for a lot of people who are already struggling
02:39because of the choices taken by this Chancellor.
02:42Well, this is what I can't quite understand.
02:44You've written to the Office for Budget Responsibility saying, goodness me,
02:48we need clarification of Britain's finances, we need new forecasts.
02:52I can see, Mel, that you're competing there with a team of children walking into the BBC.
02:57So bear with me.
02:59You've written to the OBR, we've got the Chancellor in tears on Wednesday,
03:03which rocks the financial markets.
03:06At some point or other, and Robert Jenrick has said this,
03:09he's said she needs to consider her position.
03:12I can't quite understand why you won't say that.
03:14You're clearly concerned about the Chancellor's policies.
03:17You're concerned about the negative impact of the autumn budget.
03:22You've written this letter to the OBR saying, my God, the state of our finances are appalling.
03:27And yet, whenever I ask you, should the Chancellor consider her position,
03:32you play Mr Nice Guy.
03:33She needs to consider her position, doesn't she?
03:35Because Britain's economy is tanking, according to the Tories.
03:39Well, Camilla, look, they should all go, OK?
03:44And if Rachel goes, the Prime Minister should definitely go.
03:48We've had, look, we've had far too long over the last year of broken promises.
03:53You know, a government that said, for example,
03:55they wouldn't tax our farmers and then came and did exactly that.
03:58They said they wouldn't means test the winter fuel payments for pensioners.
04:02Then they did exactly that.
04:03They said they wouldn't put up our taxes left, right and centre, including national insurance.
04:07And they did exactly that.
04:09And we've now seen a government that is so chaotic.
04:11It's almost you turning by the minute.
04:14You turning on the winter fuel payment.
04:16You turning on our pressure for them to have a national inquiry into grooming gangs.
04:20You turning under pressure from their own back benches just last week on welfare,
04:26which is leading to this growing black hole of unfunded commitments, OK?
04:30There's about £6 billion, £7 billion of those lying around.
04:34And that's why I wrote to the OBR, is that what this government said was
04:38they would not get into the business of unfunded commitments.
04:41And we don't know what the figures are now going to be looking like.
04:44And yet we're taking big decisions in Parliament.
04:46So when you say they should all go,
04:48you're saying that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor should consider their positions
04:50and resign?
04:53I think the whole front bench is, you know,
04:57taking us, taking our country in entirely the wrong direction.
05:02Should they resign?
05:03I believe that the Prime Minister is so...
05:05Look, I think they should all go, right?
05:07I don't want to see a Labour government.
05:09I don't know why we keep playing these word games.
05:12Well, no, you're playing word games.
05:14You want them to be voted out or you want them to resign?
05:16I'm saying that I think given the...
05:22Your question to me was, you know, do you think they should stay in place?
05:25I think the whole lot of them are not fit for purpose.
05:28It's quite obvious that the way that the economy is being mismanaged at the moment
05:33is hitting people right up and down our country.
05:36And I'm afraid it's possibly going to get even worse in the autumn.
05:39So, you know, that's not a record that would substantiate most people staying in their roles.
05:44OK.
05:45All right.
05:46Let's move on to a story on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph.
05:49Axe sickness benefits for foreigners, Tories urge.
05:54Many people watching and listening to this mail stride might wonder why on earth foreigners can claim disability benefits
06:02and why the Tories allowed that to happen, presumably for the last 14 years.
06:10So, what we're putting forward, Camilla, is an amendment to the welfare bill such as it is.
06:16This has been largely gutted by this government.
06:18But what remains of it, to basically say that the government should come forward with a discussion document
06:24to look at this whole area.
06:26Because we do believe that British citizenship should mean something.
06:29And when it comes to welfare, we know that the costs are ever spiraling upwards.
06:36And we need to get that under control.
06:38And that's a big dividing line between ourselves and Labour.
06:40And indeed, between ourselves and reform.
06:42We want to spend more, for example, by removing the two-child benefit cap.
06:50So, we believe there should be a serious discussion about this in terms of arresting the size of the welfare bill.
06:57Why on earth did the Tories allow people who aren't UK citizens to claim benefits of up to £1,200 a month?
07:10Why on earth didn't you do something about it when you were actually in power?
07:17So, what we did do, and I was Secretary of State at Work and Pensions for the last 18 months of the last government,
07:23was to bring in some very fundamental reforms around the work capability assessment.
07:27That's the gateway into these long-term sickness and disability benefits.
07:30And the OBR actually scored those reforms as meaning £5 billion worth of savings and seeing 450,000 fewer people going on to those benefits
07:41and actually then instead heading in towards the world of work.
07:45And we had, just if I could finish, we had very detailed plans, particularly around personal independence payments
07:51that we'd already consulted on.
07:53And then the general election interrupted that process.
07:57And all of these kind of other issues, which we would have brought forward had we been elected,
08:02to make very substantial savings.
08:04In our manifesto, we had a further £12 billion of savings per year.
08:08So, that was the clear direction of travel, backed up by the fact that we'd actually proved that we could make
08:14very significant savings on welfare.
08:16But you didn't ever say, while in office, that you should stop foreigners from claiming sickness benefits, did you?
08:22So, there is a moment in time at which all sorts of policies come forward.
08:28We are under new leadership under Kemi Bader Dock.
08:31This is, I think, a very important area that we should be looking at.
08:35But, Camilla, that shouldn't detract from the very important things that, firstly, we did when we were in office
08:40to grip welfare, and, secondly, the very clear plans, fully funded, fully costed plans we had,
08:45are going much, much further.
08:47I know you did things to grip welfare, and I think we should give Ian Duncan Smith credit for reducing that welfare bill
08:56by £31 billion.
08:57But let me ask you this, Mel Stride.
08:59How much would you reduce the welfare bill by now?
09:03Because Jeremy Hunt, of all people, is saying, let's shave £50 billion off it.
09:07How much would you shave off it?
09:09Give me a figure now.
09:09Yeah. So, we are going through a policy development process that will take some time.
09:17At the time of the next election, we will have absolutely clear proposals as to exactly what we are going to do.
09:23We don't know what the world is going to look like in four years' time.
09:27But what I am saying is that we have a track record of getting on top of welfare spending and making savings,
09:32and that was £5 billion when I was Secretary of State, and about half a million, half a million people, fewer people,
09:39going on to those benefits, as confirmed by the OBR.
09:43And we went into the last election with further savings of £12 billion a year.
09:47And, yes, there is indeed more work and more thinking to be done.
09:51On the issue of foreign nationals, we think it's important that British citizenship means something.
09:55We think it's important that we get on top of welfare bills around that particular issue.
10:02And our amendment is calling on the government to come forward with a discussion document
10:05so that we can go into that area of policy in greater detail.
10:09Because we need to get on top of the welfare bill in a way that this government has basically given up on,
10:14and in a way that reform is prepared to spend even more on welfare when you look at things like the two-child cap.
10:21And we don't think that's right.
10:22We think work matters, Camilla, more than just being on benefits.
10:26It's getting people into work that matters.
10:29Work matters.
10:29We're both working on a Sunday morning, and I'm grateful, as ever, for your contribution, Mel Stride.
10:33Thank you very much indeed.
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