- 9 months ago
Keep, sell or loan? Assessing the future of EVERY first-team Sunderland player
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00:00Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast.
00:23Brought to you by the Sunderland Network.
00:24Hello, my name is James Copley and Bill Smith during the summer transfer window.
00:31Obviously, there's plenty to be discussing and we will look into the Florian Gasolte stuff in full as and when that is confirmed.
00:39But in the meantime, we thought we'd do something a little bit different today.
00:42Obviously, plenty of transfer speculation doing the rounds at the stadium of light, plenty of exit speculation as well.
00:47A lot of players being linked with potential departures.
00:51And with that in mind, we thought we'd go through every member of the first team squad, and there's quite a lot of them,
00:57and talk about who we think Sunderland will keep, who we think they could sell and who could be a candidate for potential loan as well over the course of the coming weeks and months.
01:06Like I said, plenty to get through, so we might as well dive straight in.
01:09We'll go position by position.
01:11James, a bit of an opening at the start.
01:14Number one, Anthony Patterson.
01:16I mean, surely a player you would imagine will still be at Sunderland this time.
01:20Well, this time next season, this time at the end of the transfer window.
01:23Yeah, I think you keep Anthony Patterson.
01:25I think he proved his value in the playoff final against Sheffield United with two absolutely outstanding saves.
01:32He's obviously grown with the club.
01:33I think he deserves his chance in the Premier League.
01:36However, with Sunderland stepping up a division, I do think now there is a serious argument for competition.
01:44Somebody to drive Patterson, whether that's an older or a younger goalkeeper, I'm not sure.
01:48Obviously, he doesn't have any Premier League experience, doesn't he?
01:51And I think he's, what, 24, 25?
01:53So, it's still relatively young for a goalkeeper.
01:56So, whilst I'm backing him, I think in recent seasons, we haven't really had somebody that's pushed him.
02:01We've had Simon Moore deputised for four or five games last season.
02:05Obviously, without Alex Bass and Nathan Bishop previously, who've deputised.
02:11But I would like to see a little bit of competition and quality in that goalkeeping area now for me.
02:16But he starts the season.
02:20Yeah.
02:22I think you're right, aren't you?
02:25I mean, it's interesting now, Phil, that James mentions Simon Moore.
02:28Obviously, he's been a very willing and able deputy.
02:33I mean, where do you think his future now lies?
02:36Obviously, he's a little bit older than most Sunderland players.
02:39You know, he's not a player who necessarily has a great deal of top-flight experience.
02:42I mean, do you think he stays around the club this summer?
02:45I think so.
02:46I mean, I think that's one of those where a lot of it will be driven by the player, I would imagine,
02:51in terms of where he feels he's at with his career.
02:55I think that, listen, anyone, you know, all three of us can speak to this.
02:59Spend any time around the players, staff, they'll all tell you just an unbelievable sort of figure in the dressing room.
03:06Really, really sort of good character, really experienced.
03:09Gets on really well with Anthony Patterson.
03:11I think there's a big support to him.
03:13So, for me, I think if we're talking about a goalkeeping group next season,
03:16absolutely no issues for me, Simon Moore sticking around.
03:20Probably agree with James.
03:21I think you might want to be looking to add somebody else to that mix, I think.
03:24I think that's a fair comment.
03:26But for me, I think very comfortable with Simon Moore being your sort of experienced third goalkeeper,
03:30if you like.
03:31The only caveat to that being, you know, if he's at a point where he wants to go
03:34and somewhere where he might have a bit more chance of playing,
03:37you know, I would imagine that the club would sort of respect that.
03:41So, for me, I think this is probably one of the ones, and there'll be a few as we go through,
03:46one that'll be driven by the player, I think.
03:48But certainly, from my end, I think very sensible and probably the right thing to have him
03:53as one of your three goalkeepers.
03:55No problem with that whatsoever.
03:58And I guess, James, if he does become the third man, if you like,
04:02that probably casts a fair amount of doubt over the likes of Blondie and Nathan Bishop,
04:07who's obviously been out on loan this season.
04:09I mean, are there two players who you think we could potentially see move on in some capacity?
04:15Yeah, I think both.
04:17I think Bishop likely to be permanent, let's face it,
04:20and Blondie could be permanent or loan.
04:22I think, again, Phil's right to point out that the needs and the wants of the players,
04:27surely those two who want to play regular football.
04:29Obviously, Nathan Bishop's been out on loan, hasn't he?
04:31And he's had a taste of playing regular senior minutes.
04:34So it's probably best for both of their careers to go and do that.
04:37I don't really see much use for them sort of hanging around to play for the under-21s.
04:42Obviously, some of them have their own under-21s goalkeepers who are going to benefit from playing in the Premier League too.
04:48So I think it's best for all parties that both of those go.
04:56And I guess it raises an interesting question as well, Phil, about Matty Young.
05:00Obviously, we've seen how impressive he was for Salford, a player who was so highly thought of on WSI,
05:05a player with a huge amount of potential.
05:06I mean, do you still think that it's probably a little bit too soon for him to be brought in as a member of reducing the Bristol's first-team squad?
05:13Do you see him potentially heading out again for another loan, maybe trying to increase that experience yet again?
05:19I think loan, for me, is the sensible option here.
05:22I think ideally to League One.
05:26I think that it's one of those where I'm not sure that Young is going to be quite ready yet to compete for regular minutes.
05:36And therefore, I think there's a question mark over what you'll really gain by just sort of training every day.
05:41Obviously, you'll learn from the senior goalkeepers, and it's kind of an elite environment.
05:45But I just think you're on to a good thing with Young in terms of he's had a really solid first loan.
05:49Let's see if you can step him up a level.
05:51The one thing I would say about that is there's maybe an argument that you don't have to rush into that.
05:55You could maybe take a look at him in pre-season.
05:57If you get some minutes during pre-season, that might be good for everybody.
06:02Certainly for me, I'd be looking and saying League One loan, where he's going to play regularly, would be the absolute ideal scenario for Young.
06:08But I think there's a bit of time on that.
06:09I think, as I say, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if he comes back in for a little while at the start of the pre-season
06:15and sort of trains a bit in that Premier League environment.
06:18I think that could only be a positive for him.
06:19Good stuff.
06:24Moving on to defenders now, James.
06:26I mean, I think I probably already know your answer to this one, but we've got to mention him.
06:30Grae Hulme?
06:32Yeah, keep him with a new contract, please.
06:35I think, yeah, what more needs to be said about that one, really?
06:38Brilliant player, fantastic for the club.
06:40Great servant, has grown with us.
06:42I think he does have the capability to step up to the top flight.
06:45Maybe we'll have to work on the timing of some of those tackles and the intensity of some of them,
06:50because I think in the Premier League with VAR, some of them might get pulled back.
06:53But he is a very, very good, clean slide tackler.
06:56But sometimes your heart is in your mouth when he makes those tackles, isn't it?
07:00Because if the time's slightly wrong or an inch off, then in the Premier League, they could be getting looked at.
07:07But no, a brilliant player, and I would love to see him stick around.
07:09So, similar sort of ilk, Bill.
07:13I mean, we saw how valuable he was over the course of that play-off campaign,
07:16but Dan Ballard's an absolute no-brainer, isn't he?
07:19Yeah, I think so.
07:21I think when you draw your sort of list of players who you don't really have any concerns
07:26about being able to step up to the extra sort of intensity and physicality of the Premier League,
07:30unfortunately, Joe Bellingham was one of them, and he's one of the ones that's gone.
07:34But I think Dan Ballard's definitely in that sort of top tier of ones
07:37who you know is going to be a Premier League player in the long term, I think.
07:42So, obviously, he needs a bit of luck in terms of the injuries.
07:45I think that's the one frustration for Ballard over the last couple of years.
07:48But he's one of the four or five where, for me, I'm sitting here with absolutely zero doubt whatsoever.
07:54Starting line at the first day of the season, no concerns, no issues.
07:57Absolutely, absolutely massive talent.
07:59And alongside him, Phil, I mean, Luke 09, obviously, such a wonderful story.
08:06He's come all the way from League One right at the way up to the Premier League with Sunderland.
08:10I mean, we know that Sunderland are probably going to be looking at defensive reinforcements,
08:13but you would imagine that Luke 09 will still very much be part of Regis Lebris' plans next season.
08:19Absolutely.
08:19And I think I am long past the point of trying to guess where Luke 09's ceiling is
08:24and long past the point of saying, can he do it at this level?
08:28Can he step up?
08:29He's made us all look silly at one point over the last however many years since he arrived at the club.
08:35So, yeah, I mean, listen, it's definitely an area where Sunderland probably need to recruit two players, I think.
08:42Whether or not one of those is Chris Meppam, obviously, time will tell.
08:45But I think it's one where, yes, I'm going to need to recruit two players and then it's a big competition for the starting XI.
08:52But for me, there's no doubt Luke 09 is going to be a big part of this squad next season.
08:56And I'm not doubting whatsoever that he'll somehow end up in the team in some position and in some capacity
09:02because that's just what Luke 09 does.
09:05But I think either way, it's such a big part of the club, such a big part of the dressing room.
09:09Absolutely no-brainer.
09:10Definite keep.
09:11Dennis Sirkin, James, obviously a man who is in a slightly precarious contract situation.
09:19He's out of contract next summer and Sunderland will know that I'll be looking to extend his stay on Wies side.
09:24I mean, he's one that you would hope they'll be able to keep hold up, wouldn't he?
09:29Yeah, I think so.
09:31He would definitely make my Premier League squad.
09:34Would like to see that contract situation sorted out sooner rather than later.
09:37Obviously, there's been fresh reports about Tottenham potentially interested in bringing him back in.
09:45I think he can definitely make the step up.
09:46I think his early season form in the Championship was absolutely sublime.
09:53He had a few injury issues, didn't he?
09:55And he looked a bit tentative when he was coming back.
09:58But I think when you get Dennis Sirkin, you know, fit and firing and confident, he's a brilliant player.
10:03I mean, that goal against Coventry where he gets the ball from Ramein Mundl in his own half
10:08and runs all the way up and smashes one in, he's a brilliant player.
10:13And I think he's certainly got the attributes as well to play in the Premier League.
10:16So he's a definite keep for me.
10:21What about Agilis?
10:22Obviously, a player who we know how good he can be.
10:24We've seen him perform really well for Sunderland over the course of his time in the club,
10:28but perhaps not quite often enough because of those injury issues that he's had.
10:32I mean, is he a player who you'd like to stick around and hopefully get a run of fitness behind him?
10:37I really, really like him.
10:38And obviously, I think what he's got going for him is that he can play left back and centre back.
10:43And I think when he is fit and when he has been fit, he's actually shown that he's potentially a Premier League level defender.
10:50He's composed on the ball.
10:52He's intelligent.
10:52He's got great physical attributes.
10:54The only question mark, and it's a big question mark, is that fitness, isn't it?
10:58So you wouldn't want to hang your hat on him.
11:02But for me, he'd be a keep in a sense that maybe he needs a season of perhaps being on the fringes a little bit,
11:08but staying fit for that full season without being relied upon too heavily.
11:13And maybe he can come in and out for a couple of games.
11:15But I don't know what Phil thinks, but I think he's a really, really good defender.
11:19And it's just such a shame he's been plagued by injuries.
11:22I think there's an argument, actually, that when everybody was fit last season, he was up there in terms of Sunderland's best centre-back,
11:30in terms of the levels of his performance.
11:31I know we didn't see him for maybe as much as Luke O'Neill, but availability is sometimes your best asset, isn't it?
11:39And he just wasn't available for the majority of the season.
11:41But when he does play, I'm always really, really impressed by him.
11:44Yeah, I'm leaning towards keep for two reasons.
11:48One is the versatility, I think, which James mentions is absolutely right.
11:52I think if you've got a player who can cover a few different roles, I think that's great.
11:56Especially a team like Sunderland, who we know like to run quite a lean squad, I think, as well.
12:00The other thing is, as James says, his performance is when he's fit, being very good.
12:04And he's got a lot of pace, which is a big thing for me.
12:06Stepping up to the Premier League, I think players need that.
12:09So I'm leaning towards keep.
12:10I think it's one where if you get to the very end of the transfer window and everything's gone great in terms of your income and business and you've strengthened, does it then become a loan?
12:19I think there's a discussion around that.
12:20But sitting here right now, I'm leaning towards keep.
12:23I agree with James's assessment entirely.
12:25I think he can definitely offer something.
12:27And while he might not be a week-in, week-out starter, I don't think there's necessarily any great harm in that if it allows him to stay fit.
12:34So leaning towards keep potential loan if Mrs. Speakman and potentially Gasolfi can do the business.
12:45Another man who's obviously had his injury issues, Phil, Niall Huggins.
12:50Similar story to release, really, isn't it?
12:51When he plays, he looks brilliant, but he just hasn't been able to play as much as he or anyone at WSI would have liked.
12:57I mean, where do you think he stands this summer?
12:59Because he has been out for a long, long time now.
13:00Yeah, I think that's just one where nobody has to kind of rush into anything.
13:07I think that he's been out for such a long time.
13:10By all accounts, he trained really, really well when he sort of came back at the end of last season.
13:13And that's a big positive for me.
13:15I just think we saw the last time he came back and did so really well.
13:18The main thing for Huggins is to have a full pre-season.
13:23So from my perspective, Huggins is a bonus ball, really.
13:26You know, if he can get fit, if he can produce the level of performance he was before he got that last injury, then he can play a part.
13:34Obviously, he'll want to play and he'll want to get back out playing minutes.
13:38So a loan comes into the equation at some point.
13:41But I don't see why any party needs to sort of rush into that.
13:44So for me, just let him train, let him get fit, let him get minutes in pre-season, make a decision further down the line.
13:50I mean, I think that's one of the ones where you can just step back and just let him train, let him get up to speed.
13:56And we'll take it from there.
13:59What do you make of Leo Hjalda, James?
14:02Obviously, a player who's sort of been on the periphery a little bit.
14:05We've got a few minutes here and there when Sunderland had their injury issues last season.
14:08But you would assume that if Sunderland are strengthened, that would potentially push him a little bit further down the pecking order.
14:14I mean, do you think he could be a candidate for maybe a temporary exit this summer?
14:18Yeah, I think a loan move is probably on the cards, isn't it?
14:23We forget how young he is.
14:24I think he's 20, 21, something like that.
14:26I feel a bit sorry for him in a sense that, you know, when he joined the club, the club was a little bit of a low ebb and he struggled to sort of break in.
14:35He's been like left back, centre back, hasn't he, during the season.
14:38He's been injury cover.
14:39So he's never really had like a proper run of like 15 games.
14:43I always think it's really hard to judge a player.
14:46But LeBrice trusts him.
14:47I think he kept him around.
14:49He's given him responsibilities as well.
14:51He kept him to side in the Carabao Cup against Preston.
14:54So I think it's probably best for him that he goes and plays some games and perhaps there's a player there and next summer will be a good opportunity to sort of reassess that one.
15:03I think a loan move could do him the world of good because I think as important as your talent sometimes is your character and your work rate and your work effort.
15:12Luke O'Neill has shown that as well.
15:14And, you know, Leo Hjelder being such a good lad and being such a good trainer and a good professional, I think he's probably worth keeping an eye on for another season at least and just see how he develops that on loan.
15:25I think I'd be really big on getting him to go somewhere where he can play as a centre-half regularly because we've still never really seen him play properly as a centre-half for Sunderland, which is his strongest position.
15:35And I think that's one of those where you've got to be quite sensible as well and say, obviously, we're hoping that this is the start of Sunderland's long stint in the Premier League, but it's not beyond the realms that you're talking about a championship squad in 12 months.
15:49Why not put yourself in a position where you've got a body of work where you can study that Leo Hjelder's played 35 games as a championship centre-half and then you can make a decision on whether he can realistically be part of your squad.
16:00So, looking at his contract, which he's still got a few years left to run on it, looking at the fact that, as James says, he's still really young, for me, don't rush into it.
16:08Try and get him a good loan where he can play every week in his favourite position and, yeah, and make a more informed choice, if you like, a little bit further down the line, both for the club and the player.
16:18Just on that point and jumping back a little bit, if Sunderland do find themselves in the championship in 12 months' time, which, you know, is a distinct possibility, you've got to be honest about that.
16:28But I think Patterson probably goes and then Matty Young, if he's coming off a really strong League One loan, is probably your number one goalkeeper in the championship.
16:36That's how I would envisage that happening in that scenario.
16:41I mean, he's got a huge amount of potential, doesn't he, Matty Young?
16:43I think we're all quite excited about what he could do in a Sunderland shirt.
16:48Jensen, Phil, I mean, would you put him into a sort of similar category as Hjelder, someone who, again, hasn't played a lot because of injuries, seems to be a recurrent theme.
16:56But we know that he's got a decent amount of talent.
17:01Yeah, I think, again, a really straightforward forward on for me, I'd be looking to get a loan move.
17:07If it's, again, if it's one where he trains for a period of pre-season, gets some minutes in those sort of early pre-season games, great.
17:14But, again, let him go and play.
17:17Get him in a team where he's got that responsibility, where he's relied on every week.
17:21And, again, 12 months down the line, you're in a much better position to make an informed decision.
17:27That would certainly be my view on it.
17:31What about Timothy Pembele, James?
17:34Obviously, a man who was sent out on loan this season.
17:37It hasn't quite happened for him, I think it's fair to say.
17:40That's Sunderland.
17:41I mean, another loan, a potential sale.
17:43Where do you see his future lying?
17:45I think it's probably just best to cut losses now, I would say.
17:50I would probably lean towards Seldon.
17:53I know he sort of did okay at the half last season.
17:55I think they were quite pleased with him.
17:57It feels pretty natural that he might go back there.
17:59I'm not sure.
17:59I haven't actually read too much about him.
18:01But, again, it's really hard to judge these plays, isn't it?
18:05Because he's come in and it hasn't worked for him.
18:08But he was playing in a Sunderland side that was struggling under Michael Beal.
18:13And he was in and out of the side.
18:15We never saw him for 10, 15, 20 games.
18:17So, you do have to reserve judgment to a degree.
18:20Having said that, from what I did see of him, I wasn't really that impressed.
18:25Some players, you know, really come and grasp the opportunity.
18:27I didn't really think like Pembele did that.
18:31So, for me, even if Sunderland were in the Championship in 12 months' time,
18:33I think we already sort of know that he's perhaps not at the level we want.
18:36I mean, Lebris was pretty clear, wasn't he, when he first came in,
18:40that it wasn't for him.
18:41So, I think, for me, a sale is pretty straightforward.
18:50Yeah, I think so.
18:51I think the challenge you've got...
18:53Yeah, I think, Joe Anderson, I think it's the time for him to go and play regularly.
19:00The only thing I would say about Joe Anderson,
19:01obviously there have been opportunities for him to move in the last couple of windows
19:04and he's decided he didn't want to do that at that time.
19:07So, I guess that's the thing.
19:08And Anderson and Pembele are both in a category where you've got to,
19:12obviously, now appreciate the fact that they're on Premier League contracts
19:16and that makes the sale process, obviously, a lot more challenging.
19:21So, I think they could be ones that potentially run.
19:23I don't think it will necessarily be easily wrapped up,
19:27but Pembele and Anderson, for me, I think it's the right time for a permanent departure.
19:35One last defensive option, James.
19:37Zach Johnson, again, sent out on loan last season.
19:42I mean, again, he's a player who we know is a talented boy,
19:47but has he got enough to step up to the Premier League?
19:48I don't think at the moment, no.
19:51I think the way I view Zach Johnson is it's a real shame
19:56he wasn't like two years older when Sutherland were in League One
19:58because I think he probably would have broken through and played.
20:01He's still only 20 years old, you know.
20:03He's obviously had a couple of loans.
20:05I think one was in Ireland.
20:06He's played for Notts County again last season.
20:07So, for me, I'd be looking to loan him out next season
20:12and then, again, reassess depending on which division Sutherland are in.
20:16I do think he has a great deal of potential.
20:19You know, he's an England youth international as well,
20:21so there's definitely pedigree there.
20:24Really driven as a bloke, whether he makes it at Sutherland or not,
20:28I don't know.
20:29I think the jury's still out, but I think it's too soon to be selling him.
20:33For me, anyway, again, as Phil's mentioned previously,
20:36the player might have, you know, different ideas.
20:38He might want a settled home where he knows he's going to play for two or three years.
20:42He's also a Sunderland lad, though,
20:43so I'm guessing he'd quite like to play for the club regularly at some point.
20:47So, I think there's a lot up in the air with that one.
21:00Have we lost, Jase?
21:01He's looking very pensive, so either you've said something that's really...
21:08Stumped him.
21:11Right, well, I'll remove him and then hopefully when he rejoins it might work a bit better.
21:16But I have the list in front of me, so...
21:18Shall we make a start of midfielders and then hopefully Jase can rejoin the part?
21:23Well, let's start with a really easy one.
21:24Dan Neill, Phil.
21:26Sell.
21:26No, I'm only joking.
21:27Yeah, listen, I think, again, you've already lost Joe Bellingham,
21:35so you don't, in my opinion, want to be losing any more of those sort of prominent midfielders,
21:40if you like, from the squad last season.
21:42I think he's a player who deserves his opportunity to step up,
21:45lead Sunderland into the Premier League.
21:47We obviously have that sort of minor contract situation,
21:50something that Dennis Serkin, where there's only a year left,
21:51Sunderland will want that solved for obvious reasons before the season starts.
21:56But, yeah, for me, Neil's one of those players that I'm backing to make the step up
22:00and be not just a squad player next season, but a first-11 player next season.
22:05So, keep for me.
22:06No, personally, absolute no-brainer.
22:08So, you think that we're going off-piste a little bit here, Phil,
22:12but in terms of Joe Bellingham leaving the club,
22:15Dan Neill has a bit of experience as a box-to-box midfielder.
22:18Could he potentially move into that position, do you think, next season?
22:23Yeah, I think he definitely has the potential to do it.
22:26It's easy to forget that's where he played the bulk of his early career as well.
22:31I think the one thing I would say about that is,
22:33it's going to be really interesting to see how LeBrie sets that midfield up
22:35because, moving it on a little bit,
22:37should we just both say now Enzo Le Fay will probably keep?
22:40Yeah.
22:41I mean, he's worth a look, isn't he, certainly.
22:43Yeah, if he pushes forward into the sort of number 10 role,
22:49you know, it might look a bit more like a 4-2-3-1 next season,
22:53in which case, Dan Neill, I think, will be one of the two who plays a little bit deeper.
22:56And, of course, within that, yes, he'll have opportunities to push forward and to play,
23:00but it might be that you have two sort of more sitters, if you like,
23:04and then Le Fay has a bit more of a free reign in the 10.
23:06I can definitely see that scenario.
23:07So, I do agree with you, but I think, in part, it'll be based on how LeBrie sets the team up,
23:13especially with Le Fay and how he then puts the jigsaw together around that.
23:17So, yeah, we might see Neill be a bit more versatile next season,
23:20but I think he probably still will be playing a slightly more withdrawn role,
23:23would be my prediction, anyway.
23:26Alan Brown, Phil, I find myself pretty torn on Alan Brown.
23:31Again, being sort of unlucky with injuries last season,
23:33when we signed him, we were all massively excited.
23:37And praising the recruitment model to the hilt,
23:39this is the experienced midfielder that we all wanted,
23:42that was going to help lead Sunderland to promotion.
23:44And whilst we did get promotion, Brown wasn't as maybe influential as we thought.
23:49I can see the pros and cons for both arguments, keep them round, experience.
23:53You know, he's played international football.
23:55Could he make that step up to the Premier League?
23:57You know, but is he going to play when Sunderland bring reinforcements into that midfield?
24:02So, there's an argument for loan or even selling, isn't there?
24:06I'm a bit torn on this one.
24:07Yeah, I think it's a really difficult one.
24:09I think the reason why it's difficult for either of us to make a decision on this at the moment
24:13is because we don't really know exactly kind of what his true level is.
24:19Because of injuries, I don't think we've seen him at full tilt for Sunderland.
24:22So, I think that makes it really difficult for us to make an assessment on where we think he can get to.
24:31So, at the moment, no problems in terms of having him around, giving him that pre-season period to prove his fitness and his level, I think.
24:39I don't see Alan Brown wanting to hang around if he's not going to play.
24:42I think that's a big thing for me.
24:43When you look at the number of games he's got under his belt, I'm sure, obviously, he'll have ambitions to try and get back at international level as well.
24:50That's obviously not going to happen if he's not playing.
24:52So, for me, I am kind of leaning towards loan or sell for this one.
24:57Not because I don't rate him as a player, just because I think that might be the best decision for him himself.
25:02But, yeah, it'll be interesting.
25:05He'll be one of the players that you're looking at the first few games of pre-season to kind of see how he's getting on.
25:09But, at this stage, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a potential departure in the works somewhere down the line.
25:16Chris Rigg, Jason, keep loan or sell?
25:19I mean, do you have to ask?
25:22Yeah, I think you keep Chris Rigg if you can keep Chris Rigg.
25:26It's as simple as that, isn't it?
25:27And I know we've spoken about it a lot on the pod previously, but Sunderland, you would hope,
25:31they're in a position whereby they have given themselves enough security that they should be able to keep Chris Rigg
25:38if that's what they want to do.
25:39And, look, we know how good he was in the Championship.
25:42We know how young he is.
25:43We know that he's got this ridiculously high ceiling of potential.
25:47You would hope that he's only going to get better and better and better.
25:50And, you know, it's really quite intriguing, isn't it, to sort of consider what he might be able to do
25:57with a year or two more experience when he was about in the top flight.
26:01Yeah, you've got to pick Chris Rigg.
26:04I feel like, Phil, that the Chris Rigg transfer speculation will probably ramp up,
26:08as the window goes on.
26:10But I don't necessarily see him leaving for big money this summer.
26:14However, I'm not sure he signs a new contract either, with him having two years left on his deal.
26:19I think he'll want to play in the Premier League for Sunderland.
26:21But I think we're in that sort of awkward moment now, aren't we, where, you know,
26:25Chris Rigg probably knows he's destined for the top.
26:27He's probably going to want to stay at Sunderland for a little bit longer.
26:30But whether we can really nail him down long-term again, I think, might be a little bit of a bridge too far.
26:36Potentially. I mean, I think this goes back to the heart of the Joe Bellingham debate as well, isn't it,
26:42where you have more of a chance when players know that you're not necessarily going to stand in their way
26:47as long as the fee is sensible next year.
26:49So, you do have that example where you can say to Chris Rigg, look, just because you're signing a new contract
26:56doesn't mean that you have to stay here for another three years.
27:00Look, we've shown with Joe Bellingham, he signed a new contract last summer, didn't he?
27:03But when the valuation was right, they moved him on.
27:06So, I kind of agree with you that I think that probably the most likely scenario is a little bit of
27:12things just kind of stay as they are for another year.
27:15And Rigg sort of tests himself at the Premier League level.
27:17I think Sunderland, it would take stupid money, in my opinion, for them to sell him in this window,
27:21having already lost Joe Bellingham.
27:23So, I agree with you.
27:24I think the most likely thing is we sort of stay in a little bit of a, I guess, holding pattern.
27:29But I wouldn't be, let's see how it develops, because I'd say a big part of Sunderland's strategy
27:33is showing that just because he signed contracts, it doesn't mean that we're going to keep you
27:38against your will as long as the valuation's right.
27:40Jermitete, Phil, he's got a year left on his deal, coming back from loan again.
27:48Yeah, I think it's time probably for a permanent departure.
27:52A player that I really liked when he first broke through into the team, carried the ball forward
27:58really well, brought a bit of dynamism to the team.
28:02Yeah, a player with a lot of potential.
28:05But I think that it's really difficult to see him getting into a Premier League squad now.
28:09I'm not sure there's much value in a loan, obviously, given that he's in the last year of his deal.
28:14I'm sure there'll be interest from League One clubs because of his record at that level.
28:18I think he's won three promotions now, hasn't he?
28:22So, for me, I'd be saying, you know, I think you have to accept that it's maybe time for a departure.
28:29And, you know, I don't think he's standing his way.
28:31I think he'd just do a sensible deal where maybe you have some incentives in future
28:36if, you know, he wins promotion or he's sold again for a decent fee.
28:40So, yeah, I'd be looking to get him a permanent home where he can just sort of really settle down
28:45and try and sort of rebuild his career after those injuries.
28:48Milan, Aleksic, Jay, still only 19 years old, obviously came to the club very highly rated,
28:55but struggled to find a position, really, or any sort of regular minutes under La Brice.
29:00I felt a bit sorry for him at times.
29:01I remember him being parachuted into the team away at Norwich City,
29:05a draft, nailed him draw on the right-hand side of the attack,
29:09which just wasn't his position at all.
29:11My good feeling is a load.
29:15Yeah, I think you're very probably right.
29:18I know there have been reports in recent days, haven't there,
29:20that, you know, potentially return back to Serbia.
29:22I think that, again, I said it about a few players already,
29:25but he's obviously a player that has an immense amount of natural talent,
29:28but it's just about giving him the opportunity to hone that.
29:31And he's still so young, like you say, you know,
29:34is it better for him to be sat in the under-21s for a season or two?
29:37Is it better for him to be going out and playing senior football
29:39and sort of trying to bring himself up to that level
29:41and realise his potential?
29:42And I think the obvious answer is very probably the latter,
29:45to be honest with you.
29:46So, yeah, I agree with you.
29:47I did feel sorry for him.
29:49I think that, you know, it probably didn't quite work out last season
29:52in the way that he would have envisaged it.
29:54But, you know, certainly the opportunity for him to get minutes
29:58is one that I don't think he or Sunderland can necessarily turn down.
30:01What do you make of that Milan question, Phil?
30:04Because you don't want him to go down the Jefferson-Bennett route,
30:07obviously coming to the club, highly rated.
30:08He had, you know, bordering on an international footballer.
30:11I think Jefferson-Bennett was an international footballer.
30:13Milan-Oleksic has been called up to the Serbian national squad before.
30:17You don't want to see him sort of stagnate, do you?
30:19That next loan has to be really good.
30:22Yeah, I think it's a really interesting dilemma and debate around this as well
30:25because it's like similar to Bennett as well.
30:29You have this thing where you want him to be playing regularly
30:33in a settled environment where he's comfortable.
30:34At the same time, obviously, the big thing with, you know,
30:39one of the big things with Oleksic is you want his language to improve as well
30:42because that's obviously one of the big challenges he's had in his first year.
30:45So it's a really difficult decision in terms of where it's the best place for him.
30:48But I definitely think a loan is the right move.
30:52And I think, obviously, part of Zan Belgrade has been mentioned,
30:55good standard, familiar environment.
30:57I do think that that makes sense.
31:00I'd much prefer a sort of straight loan because I think, again,
31:03we've seen with Eliza Mayenda, you have to give these players time.
31:06You don't want to rush into anything.
31:08But if there was a, you know, a very, very good option clause,
31:12as we saw with Pierre Equa and Sonetti,
31:14then I wouldn't necessarily be against that.
31:16But, yeah, for sure, I think loan's a sensible move at this point.
31:20Let's move on to Equa, Phil.
31:22What do you reckon?
31:23It seems pretty certain he's going to leave and Sonnenberg are going to get a decent fee for him.
31:26At least, obviously, some of that will be owed to West Ham as well.
31:29A player I really liked when he joined.
31:32But I think timing and, unfortunately, it just hasn't worked out in the end, has it?
31:36No, it hasn't.
31:36And I think that, you know, I think there were question marks over his sort of role and place
31:41at the start of the pre-season last time out.
31:43And then, obviously, you got that back injury, which was really badly timed from his perspective.
31:47And that's just how football goes, isn't it, sometimes?
31:49And, yeah, I think that it's a win-win, isn't it?
31:53It's a decent fee for Sunderland.
31:56And it's a good opportunity for Equa in terms of an environment he knows well.
32:01You're sort of reading about there's a decent project there at San Etienne, even though they're
32:04being relegated.
32:05I think they have quite wealthy owners who are investing.
32:07So I don't think it's a bad move for him.
32:09I just think it is.
32:10I agree with you in the sense that it's a shame because we know the level that he can reach.
32:14But I think it's the right time.
32:16I think everyone's a winner out of this one.
32:18You could actually argue, Phil, that the transfer of Pierre Equa when we got him from West Ham,
32:23it's been a relative success in terms of Sunderland plucking somebody from another 21s team.
32:28They've given him time in the championship.
32:30And whilst he hasn't stayed around for a long time, it's worked in a sense that it's, you know,
32:35it's helped springboard his senior career, really, hasn't it?
32:38Yeah, absolutely.
32:39We know there's a pretty chunky salon clause for West Ham.
32:42So it's not the same level of huge profit that we've seen with like Clark and Bellingham
32:48and players like that.
32:49But still a very, very, very sort of chunky profit.
32:53Equa did play a role.
32:54You know, that team did get to the playoffs that first year and he was a big part of that.
32:59So, yeah, I agree with you.
33:00I don't put it down as like a transfer miss or anything like that.
33:04Good, talented player, played his part, didn't quite work.
33:08Work out for whatever reason.
33:09But, you know, Sunderland aren't losing out.
33:10So, yeah, I think it's just one of those things, isn't it?
33:13That happens every now and then.
33:15It is.
33:15This next one is quite interesting, Jase.
33:18Nectar Triantis, obviously, has been at Hibs on loan two seasons on the trot.
33:23Actually, Hibs finished third last season in the Scottish Premier League.
33:28Triantis has been playing as a midfielder.
33:29He's been earning rave reviews.
33:31Reports are that he wants to keep playing so he can get up to speed
33:35and get into either the Greece or Australia national teams ahead of upcoming international tournaments.
33:42I think there's a lot of Sunderland players, actually, Jase, that would like a look at him.
33:47Sunderland fans?
33:47Yeah.
33:48No, no.
33:49Yeah, no, you mean I'm kind of one of them, to be honest with you.
33:52Like my heart says, give him a chance.
33:53Like, in pre-season, at least, I think it's definitely worth sort of seeing, you know, the level that he's at.
33:59Like you say, it's not just that he's gone and had a pretty solid stint in Scotland.
34:04He's been like a shining light in the Scottish Premiership and consistently over the course of an entire campaign.
34:09Obviously, we haven't really seen him in that defensive midfield role for Sunderland.
34:14He was sort of converted after the fact, wasn't he, when he went north of the border.
34:17So, I think it's a very interesting prospect.
34:20That being said, I think it feels more likely to me that he probably will move on again.
34:28It just depends if Sunderland kind of want to remain in this pattern of sending him out and, you know,
34:33seeing how far he can develop or potentially cashing in while his stock is high.
34:37I'd be interested to sort of see what Phil thinks about this.
34:39But for me personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a sale this summer.
34:44Cool.
34:45Yeah, I think it's more than fair that he's got two years left on his current contract.
34:51I think it's a more than fair decision to sell while his stock's high.
34:56Going all a bit football manager, I think maybe the ideal scenario is to extend his contract
35:02and loan him out for another year.
35:03And the reason I say that is it puts him in, I think, in a similar category to Leo Hjelda,
35:08where in a year's time, if he has had another good loan and you don't think he's going to be part of your squad,
35:13you can sell. But if you are potentially being a championship club again and you're losing a couple of your midfielders,
35:20then why not put him in that conversation?
35:22So if it was me, I'd actually be trying to extend his contract and get him another good loan
35:27and making a decision next summer.
35:29But I think putting your pragmatic head on to sell while you know there are lots of clubs who want them
35:36and are prepared to pay you a million-plus asking price,
35:40I certainly wouldn't be sitting here criticising and saying that's a wrong decision.
35:44Jan Pervéder, Phil. What would you do with Jan Pervéder?
35:47I think just move on.
35:50I think obviously some of it was down to injuries last season,
35:54but I think it was clear that LeBrice wasn't necessarily going to select him either way.
36:00Obviously far from ideal in terms of the financial side of things,
36:04but I think sometimes you've just got to accept the inevitable.
36:07I think just help him find another club, I think, for me.
36:12It's going to be hard, though. He's got three years left on his deal, hasn't he?
36:15Yeah, that's what I mean. It won't be simple, though.
36:19Certainly from a financial perspective, that's not going to be easy for Sunderland to do.
36:23But I think sometimes you've just got to accept the inevitable, right?
36:28Yeah, that would be... I know what you're saying,
36:30but definitely not going to be straightforward.
36:32I think you're right at pointing that out.
36:33But I think sometimes you've just got to accept that something hasn't worked.
36:38Adil Oshish, Jase?
36:41Yeah, sort of similar to Pembele, this one.
36:44I think in the sense that it's probably the time to move him on.
36:48Obviously, you know, Oshish has, you could argue, offered a fair amount more than Pembele has in a red and white shirt.
36:54But he did really well when he was sort of parachuted into that unfamiliar left wing position last season
36:58and really sort of applied himself, despite the fact that he wasn't in and around the team for the vast majority of the campaign.
37:04That being said, he's probably at a juncture in his career where he needs to be playing regular first-team football.
37:10Is he going to get that at Sunderland?
37:12Is he going to get that at Sunderland in the Premier League?
37:14Almost certainly not.
37:15And I think for that reason, you sort of look at it and you go,
37:18well, that's probably the right time to move him on.
37:20Abdullah Barfield, perhaps in the same category as Ekwa in terms of coming to the club,
37:26has become a senior footballer, hasn't quite worked out, has gone on loan, but probably best for him if he leaves.
37:32Yeah, it's a sale for me.
37:36That's the, I think it's the, I think it's the best thing.
37:40I think that, I think if you look at the way it went last season,
37:45I think it's really difficult for me to envisage a scenario where Bar comes and plays back in regularly,
37:51whether it's this season or next season.
37:53I think that it's time to try and find somewhere where he can play every week
37:57and really feel part of it and feel really settled.
37:59So, yeah, I think he showed a lot of talent at times, scored some really good goals.
38:05But I think a sale is the best option at this point for all parties.
38:10Harrison Jones, for me, definitely a loan needed.
38:13I think it would be great if he could go out somewhere and start playing regularly,
38:17get those, you know, that pattern of games under his belt.
38:21But I wouldn't actually be that surprised, Jase, to see him in and around the squad in the Premier League
38:27just because LaBrice really, really likes him and then perhaps you reassess in January.
38:32Yeah, potentially. And I think LaBrice likes him with good reason as well.
38:35He's obviously shone for the under-21s for a good long while now.
38:39He's made the step up to the first team really well.
38:41I know there hasn't necessarily been that sort of like dynamite performance that he's exploded on the scene with.
38:46But whenever he's being called upon, he's, again, fired himself really well.
38:50Looks to be very comfortable in that sort of squad dynamic as well.
38:53And I do think that for his personal development, I think a loan probably makes more sense.
38:59I think that he's at a point where if he can get a good, solid run, whether it's League One, Championship, wherever,
39:04under his belt, he could really kick on and he could really sort of, you know, go to a whole new level.
39:09And that's only going to happen if he gets minutes really, isn't it?
39:12So for me, ideal world, you find a good loan for him and you see what he can do, really.
39:17Patrick Roberts, Phil, for me, stays at the club and helps Sunderland in the Premier League
39:21with the caveat that Sunderland are going to need reinforcements on those wings in terms of general pace.
39:28I think something Roberts probably lacks, he's got a great deal going for him in terms of the way he can change a game,
39:35how he can pick out a pass, his ball carrying is exceptional.
39:38But I think Sunderland are going to need different options on those flanks.
39:42Yeah, on both wings, Sunderland need new recruits.
39:46Definitely you need competition and for Roberts, that's what Paveda was supposed to do last season and didn't.
39:53And Roberts did really well to stay fit for the vast majority of the season.
39:56So, yeah, for me, Roberts is an absolute stay with some added competition.
40:02The one thing I would say about Roberts as well is the pattern of his career at Sunderland that we've all said,
40:07he tends to get better when better players are around him who he can bounce off.
40:11So, let's get Lafayne the 10, let's get some more quality in this squad.
40:15I reckon Patrick Roberts might just pleasantly surprise a few people at that level.
40:19But I agree with you, absolutely non-negotiable.
40:21You need some more competition in that position.
40:23That would be on both flanks, not just the right.
40:26That would be one of my big priorities for this summer transfer window.
40:29This podcast has gone quite long, so I'm going to whiz through a couple of the remaining ones in a group, Phil.
40:34But Mayenda, Isidore, Mundell, I'm pretty comfortable with those three players staying and being in the Premier League.
40:41I think Mayenda and Mundell, well, and Isidore, actually, they've got real potential.
40:46I think because of Mayenda's emergence towards the back end of last season,
40:50we actually forget how amazing some of Isidore's goals were towards the start.
40:55Yeah, just some absolutely sublime finishes.
40:58The one at Elland Road and the one against Leeds at home, actually, just ridiculous.
41:02Sheffield United at home, just unbelievable.
41:06Yeah, definitely a really brilliant signing.
41:09Has some top-level experience, not the Premier League, but some top-level experience.
41:13And I think the way that Sunderland are going to play next year might potentially be really suited to him.
41:17There's going to be a lot of counter-attacking football.
41:19There's going to be a lot of trying to catch teams out with his pace over the top.
41:22But, yeah, absolutely no doubt in mind that Isidore's one of your options going into the new season.
41:27And, yes, his form wasn't graded towards the very end of the season.
41:31But I think what he did over the course of his first year was excellent.
41:34And don't forget, as well, he hadn't played loads of football when he arrived.
41:37And then he was playing every single week for, you know, sometimes twice a week for four or five months.
41:42So if there was a little bit of dip at the end of the season, I don't think that's a huge surprise.
41:45So good rest for him, good pre-season.
41:48Yeah, let's see what he can do.
41:50I'm excited about what he can do.
41:51And Mayenda and Lundell, Jace, fairly confident, again, that those two could, with their physical attributes, their intelligence, can step up to the Premier League.
41:59Yeah, 100 percent, 100 percent.
42:02I think Mayenda in particular is one I'm really excited by because we've said it before, but the trajectory that he's on, you know, the rate at which he's improving and just stepping up the challenges time and time again, taking them in his stride.
42:13And, you know, I'm not necessarily saying that he's going to take it to the Premier League straight away because it's a really difficult division.
42:18But I think that he has the potential to really make a go of it next season.
42:23So, yeah, very much excited to see what both of those players, to be fair, can do in the top five.
42:27Yeah, it's got to be a sale, I think.
42:34Obviously, it hasn't really worked out for him at UV next gen either.
42:40Really difficult.
42:41You know, we've talked about players who potentially could come into the fold maybe next season and the ones who probably won't.
42:47I think Amir is in that category.
42:49So, for me, it's a sale, but all the same things that you said about Pembele, Joe Anderson, Barr.
42:55Obviously, players going out of Premier League contracts makes it much more difficult to move them on.
42:59And there's potentially going to be a little bit of financial pain there for Sunderland.
43:02But I think it's just the right thing to do, both for the club and for the player at this point.
43:06The same could be said of Nasrus and Jace as well.
43:09Obviously, slightly older, made more of an impact in Sunderland's first team, but it's not going to happen from here, is it?
43:15No, I don't think it is.
43:17And I think, you know, it's sort of a bit of an indictment of where he's at right now, that it hasn't really happened for him.
43:23It had to split either over in Croatia.
43:25I think that, you know, assuming they don't take up the option to make his move permanent,
43:31I think Sunderland will still be looking to try and get him out the door on a permanent basis.
43:35Again, it's one of them.
43:36Just sometimes it just doesn't work out because not every signing could be an absolute hit.
43:40And Roussin just hasn't really done it in a red and white shirt.
43:44But again, like you say, he's a little bit older.
43:46I think he certainly needs to be playing first team football somewhere.
43:49But I just don't see it being at Sunderland next season.
43:52Ahmed Abdullahi, Phil, I think he's still only, I think he might be 20 now,
43:58obviously brought to the club injured, was playing well for the under-21s,
44:02but then was taken out, I think, just to sort of protect him.
44:05Haven't really seen him anywhere near the first team.
44:08For me, I mean, I could see him going out on loan, but I could also see him staying at the club to play for the 21s.
44:14So it wouldn't necessarily be a first team option.
44:17No, I think that he's probably one in a slightly different category to some of the players where you're looking at saying,
44:23oh, well, definitely loan or sell because they're not going to play regularly.
44:26It's hard at this point to see Abdullahi playing regularly in the Premier League.
44:29But because he just hasn't really had that extended training time, that time to adapt at Sunderland,
44:34I'd be really tempted to, as you say, have him in the squad for pre-season,
44:38let him have a full block of training, make a sort of more informed decision.
44:42You know, you've got the January window there.
44:43Why can't Abdullahi get a loan move in that window and go and play somewhere regularly for the second half of the season?
44:48I think that would work if you needed to.
44:50But definitely he's one of the ones where I'd be looking at it saying we don't need to rush into anything here.
44:55Let's get him training. Let's get him some minutes in pre-season.
44:57And, you know, there's obviously going to be a process where Sunderland are going to be getting their squad together.
45:01It's not going to be ready to go on the first day of pre-season.
45:04So, yeah, let's give it time and have a proper look at him.
45:09Jase, the last man on our list is Trey Ogunsui, you know, a player that we're both quite fond of.
45:16Very talented player as well.
45:19I think he stays at Sunderland, probably competes within the under-21s,
45:24but I could see a loan for him at some point, maybe, you know, possibly even after January,
45:28he could go to the National League like we've seen some Sunderland players do, but hugely talented player.
45:33Oh, yeah. Yeah, massive amount of potential.
45:36And like you say, someone who we've watched quite a lot, I think that he has a big, big future ahead of him
45:40if all the pieces fall into place.
45:42I think that given his age and given what he's shown, there's absolutely no rush to be sending him out.
45:48And, you know, he doesn't necessarily need to be playing senior football right this second.
45:52I do think you're right, though.
45:53I think that we could reach a point at some point over the coming season where it becomes apparent
45:57that 21's football is not necessarily beneath him, but that he's sort of outgrown it a little bit.
46:03And I think for that reason, absolutely consider a loan at that point.
46:07But for now, I've got nothing against him, so I'm staying around the club, playing a bit of 21's football
46:12and just continuing what has proven to be a really promising development.
46:17So, Phil, of the 36 players we've discussed, I've been taking notes during,
46:22and we've only got 15 first-teamers staying at the club.
46:27Is that right?
46:28This exercise really, and that's including Alan Brown as well, who may well go,
46:32but that exercise sort of underlines the challenge Sunderland's recruitment team have, isn't it?
46:39It absolutely does, yeah.
46:40I don't think there's a position on the pitch, really, where you'd say that Sunderland are fully stocked
46:45in terms of don't need to make any more additions.
46:48So, yeah, there's a huge amount of work to be done, isn't there?
46:51I think it's really stark when you put it like that in terms of being 15 players.
46:55We know Sunderland like to run a small squad, but that is definitely pushing it.
46:59So, yeah, but no, it's really, you know, when you go through it, it's really simple, isn't it?
47:04You need two centre-halves, you need probably two full-backs, you need two wingers.
47:07So, there's six straight off the bat.
47:10So, yeah, really, I think, obviously, the numbers is a challenge,
47:13but also Sunderland's budget isn't infinite, and there's going to be that balance
47:16between making those investments in the right areas to get the quality you need,
47:21but also what's going to be really important is getting those guys in
47:25who aren't going to eat up a huge amount of your budget
47:27but are going to be good enough to play a part of that level.
47:30Yeah, good luck, Christian, and potentially good luck, Florent Cusolfi,
47:34because it's a huge window.
47:37Well, good luck us as well, because we're going to have to report
47:40on potentially 17 players leaving and then potentially another, what, 12, 13 joining.
47:48And Sunderland tend to leave a lot of these to transfer deadline day as well,
47:51so that's going to be fun.
47:53Well, hopefully, I'm hoping this year might be, well,
47:55they probably will still be doing business on deadline day.
47:57But obviously, they're operating in a slightly different market now.
48:00That's the one thing I would say is a big part of the reason why,
48:03like most championship clubs, they're always doing business late on
48:05is obviously because they're waiting for Premier League clubs
48:08to make their decisions.
48:10So I'm quietly hopeful that there might be a bit more quick moving this year,
48:14but we'll see.
48:17Yeah.
48:17What's your ideal sort of transfer window look like, Jase, for you in terms of
48:23who would you really like to see Sunderland bring in from the names linked?
48:27I mean, to be honest, at this moment in time, there have been so many
48:31that it's kind of like hard to specify, really.
48:35It's north of 50, you know.
48:37It's north of 50 names already.
48:38It's crazy.
48:39It's madness, isn't it?
48:40And it's only going to gather pace as we go on, you know, with, what,
48:43not even at the end of June yet.
48:44We've got another two months of this.
48:46It's going to get a little bit manic.
48:47I think it's fair.
48:48So my gut feeling has always kind of been that the players who I think Sunderland,
48:54or a lot of the players I think Sunderland will ultimately end up
48:56seriously pursuing are probably players that we either, A, haven't really heard of
49:02or, B, haven't really considered at this specific moment in time.
49:06Obviously, you know, you're seeing the likes of Vladislav Vanert linked,
49:08looks like a really promising player, but there are probably another, you know,
49:12five, six, seven strikers of that ilk who Sunderland are potentially keeping an eye on
49:17or performing at that level across Europe.
49:19And I think it's just really, really hard to sort of pick any specific name
49:22at this moment in time.
49:23But like you said, it's just, it's going to be crazy, isn't it?
49:27Any final transfer thoughts, Phil, before we round off?
49:33Any final transfer thoughts?
49:35No, I don't think so.
49:36Yeah, well, the one thing I would say is that I think at this time of year,
49:42it's always worth remembering that there's probably a little bit of something
49:46in 90% of these links, but sometimes it can be as basic as, you know,
49:51Sunderland inquiring about a player's availability and what their situation is.
49:54And then obviously it benefits the other party for that to then come out
49:58as, you know, Sunderland are interested in X.
50:00I think at the moment it's probably a reflection of the fact that Sunderland
50:02were a little bit behind because of the playoffs.
50:04They've now moved into their stage of they've got this long list of potential players
50:08and they're going out and acquiring the intel that they need.
50:11So there's probably something in all of these rumours, or most of them,
50:15some of them probably are complete nonsense.
50:18But it doesn't necessarily, you know, mean that it's anything more than that
50:22at this stage.
50:22So I would say take a deep breath, still early days, still try and enjoy Wembley
50:30if you can.
50:30Let's see what the next big wing is.
50:33Well, that was good fun.
50:34Thank you, gents.
50:35You can catch all of the latest Sunderland transfer news over at the Sunderland Echo
50:38website.
50:38There is a lot.
50:39Check out Phil's on the whistle videos as well.
50:42We'll probably bring you another podcast next week.
50:44Thank you once again for tuning in.