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00:00Giants Insider, NBC Sports Bay Area on the River Islands guest line.
00:05Soon as that conversation's over, then it's My Chemical Romance time.
00:10And July 19th at Oracle Park, we'll have a couple of tickets.
00:14They may well turn into sweet tickets.
00:16We'll tell you all about that.
00:18And then just after 5 o'clock, between 5 and 5.30,
00:21your chance to win a pair of tickets to go see the Valkyries take on Caitlin Clark
00:25and the Fever tomorrow night at Chase Center.
00:28So lots going on.
00:29Let's go out to Alex Pavlovich, though, and check in live from the stadium,
00:34night two of Rafael Devers as a Giant.
00:36Hey, Pavs, what's going on, man?
00:39What's going on?
00:40Am I eligible for these?
00:41Do I have to listen after?
00:43Going to have to check.
00:45I'm going to have to run that up the flagpole.
00:47We'll see.
00:47All right.
00:48Yeah, I know.
00:49It's going to be fun tomorrow night, though, right?
00:51I didn't realize.
00:52Yeah, well, that's a day game for the Giants.
00:54Yep.
00:55Doubleheader time.
00:56That's right.
00:56So you can check out Giants and then just a wiggity walk your way on down to see us
01:00over there at Chase Center.
01:02Exactly.
01:02So, yeah, big night in the Bay tomorrow for sure.
01:05Pavs, there's so much to get to after the way this has played out this week.
01:09I know you spent some time directly with basically ownership.
01:14I know the representative of ownership in Greg Johnson yesterday.
01:17What did you gather from him in this situation?
01:22Yeah, I'll plug.
01:23I have a whole behind-the-scenes story on how Raphael Devers became a Giant, but I think
01:28the main thing I gathered from Greg was, you know, a little bit of the urgency.
01:33And I thought that was fascinating because it's June 17th when he shows up, and this just
01:37doesn't happen in Major League Baseball.
01:39I mean, trades like this, they either happen in the offseason or they happen on July 31st,
01:43like three hours before the deadline.
01:44This just doesn't happen this way.
01:47And it did.
01:48That was the part of it, I think, that reminded me.
01:50I know everyone's made the Luka comparison.
01:52That was the part that reminded me most of that was just the Giants kind of convinced
01:55the Red Sox, one, to keep this really quiet.
01:58And I think the Red Sox wanted it to be quiet as well, obviously, because they didn't want
02:02their star player being out there and more rumors after everything he's gone through media-wise
02:07the last few months.
02:08But two, to get this done early and not take this into a bidding war and take this offer
02:13that is probably not the best offer they could have gotten at some point.
02:18So I thought that was really interesting and a little bit of, you know, gamesmanship.
02:22And I think the Giants played this really smart by avoiding the potential of somebody else
02:27coming in July 27th, 28th, and saying, we'll give you better prospects, or we'll take on
02:32the whole deal and give you five guys, whatever it would be.
02:36So that was my main takeaway.
02:38What's the big difference in regimes from the previous one to the Buster Posey era that
02:44allowed this to happen in such a swift fashion?
02:47Well, I think for me, that's always tough, because I go back to, like, they were three,
02:54four hours away from introducing Carlos Correa and just were uncomfortable with the ankle.
03:00I know, ultimately, I mean, I don't think they're going to be wrong on that one health-wise,
03:04but they did actually agree to terms on one of these deals, and they got one of these guys.
03:11The previous regime did, and something that we've never seen before happened.
03:15So I've always been a little hesitant to, like, fully blame it on them there, but I do
03:21think this regime, there's a little bit more urgency, and I do think there's a little bit
03:25more, like, what are we doing right now, as opposed to looking long-term and thinking
03:31long-term.
03:31I mean, the one downside of all this is there is a point at some point in the future, I
03:36think, where these contracts are going to hurt, and they're going to have to figure out
03:39where to play everybody and figure out how to get some athleticism on this roster in three
03:44to four years.
03:45But I don't think Buster is that worried about that right now, because he sees a pitching
03:49staff that he thinks can go out and compete for a title, and they're trying to do that.
03:53Alex Pavlovich, NBC Sports Barrier, is with us here on Withered and Dibs, 95.7 The Game.
03:57I think what you're touching on there, Alex, is something that fans want to know about, like
04:01the dynamic between Farhan and Greg Johnson when discussing a big deal versus the dynamic between
04:09Buster Posey and Greg Johnson.
04:11How would you compare and contrast those?
04:15Well, Farhan had their trust.
04:17I mean, right, you know, really until the end.
04:19I mean, he did convince them to give $360 million to a guy and be in on multiple other guys at
04:25similar levels and be in on Otani at $700 million.
04:28But I think there's a key thing now.
04:31Buster is part of the ownership group.
04:33He's part of the board.
04:34It's just different.
04:35Like, it's a different level, I think, of trust, and I also think this is maybe a little
04:39corny, but, like, it's got to be pretty hard to the ownership group who have seen him help
04:44him win three titles here.
04:45It's basically mostly the same people to say no if he comes to you in June and says, we
04:50can get Rafael Devers.
04:51I know we just signed Chapman long-term and Lee long-term and Adamas long-term.
04:56I know you didn't expect to spend this much in 2025, but here's the guy, and we're going
05:01to pick up $255 million.
05:02And I think it's a little bit tougher to say that to someone with Buster's stature and
05:08also someone who, you know, everyone up and down in the organization trusts his commitment
05:13to winning.
05:13And if he says this is the best way to win in San Francisco, I think that's really easy
05:17for everyone to get on board with.
05:19And yesterday, you have the introductory press conference before he goes out and plays his
05:23first game, and Mark was pointing it out before.
05:25Most, if not all, the team was in the room.
05:28How unprecedented is that?
05:30And what was the feeling in the room when you saw all his teammates out there?
05:35Well, it's unprecedented because of the timing of it, because these things never happen in
05:40season.
05:41Like, if somebody, if Logan Webb would sign a $300 million extension, I think the whole team
05:46would be there, because they're around.
05:48So that's why it was such a strange thing, because usually when we are up there on the
05:52club level and we did it with Adamus, they've tried to do it with Correa.
05:56They have had these press conferences at other spots for other big guys over the years.
06:01And it's almost December, and all these guys are back home.
06:03So it was just very strange, the fact that they could all just take an elevator and sit
06:07up there and watch this and, I think, take the whole thing in.
06:12And so that, to me, the main takeaway from yesterday was just how weird this is to happen
06:16in June.
06:17Pavs, you said off the top that you've got something coming with regard to sort of like
06:22the art of all of this and how it all came together.
06:25I'd love to know what you're willing to share on that and start with this specifically.
06:30What was the conversation surrounding Bryce Eldridge?
06:35I know the Red Sox asked.
06:37And what do the Giants think about that?
06:40Was it considered?
06:41Was it a hard no?
06:43What's the story there?
06:45Well, I'll share it all, because the story's up already.
06:47It's on NBC Sports.
06:48Okay, let's ride.
06:50But I will, so there's no secrets here.
06:53And I think other people reported this as well.
06:54But the first ask was for Bryce Eldridge.
06:57I mean, obviously, they're straight to the top.
06:59And it was a hard no from Buster.
07:02And just that he is untouchable for this organization.
07:05I think, you know, that part of it is not surprising at all.
07:09I think what was fascinating was just how much after that, you know, it's Birdsong.
07:14It's Wisenhunt.
07:15It was Harrison and Tibbs.
07:18And how much the Red Sox tried to get.
07:20And as you would expect for someone like Devers.
07:22And ultimately, as Greg Johnson told me yesterday, he said he kind of had to call
07:26ownership there and be like, look, we're trying to get this done.
07:29We actually are trying to get this done.
07:30And we think you guys are just pushing a little bit too hard in terms of prospects.
07:34And I've always been a big believer in Kyle Harrison.
07:38I mean, Bob Elvin just said 10 minutes ago, he said he's going to be really, really good
07:41over there.
07:41The Giants really believe in him.
07:44James Tibbs is a first rounder last year.
07:46We'll see where that goes.
07:47So they did give up a couple of guys.
07:49But if you would have asked me a year ago when we didn't know that Devers would become
07:54available, what it would take in a deal like this, I would have said like four or five
07:58of them.
07:59I would have said it would be Birdsong and Harrison and Tibbs and, you know, maybe throw
08:04in a Luciano just as a flyer.
08:06So I think the fact that they were able to get out of this just with the two and really
08:12just with Tibbs is so far away.
08:14He's in high A. I think that was pretty important.
08:18Did it come down basically then to just the money?
08:21Once Boston knew that the Giants would take on the totality of the contract, that gave
08:26the Giants the leverage to then send back fewer prospects?
08:29Is that the way that you were gleaning that this worked out?
08:33Yeah, I asked Greg directly yesterday.
08:35I said, are you having this press conference if you don't take on the entire contract?
08:38And he paused and he said no.
08:39I think it was, you kind of look around the league and try to figure out who can take on
08:44an entire deal like this at this point.
08:47And like the Yankees could, if they wanted to, they're not going to trade him to the
08:50Yankees.
08:51The Blue Jays could, if they wanted to, they're not going to trade him there.
08:54The Dodgers obviously do not need a designated hitter.
08:57San Diego's strapped.
08:59So there's not that many teams that could have taken this entire contract off their books.
09:03I think maybe you could come up with like one other one if you really search.
09:07So that was important.
09:08And I think the other thing was it just really sounded from everything I've heard and learned
09:13the last 48 hours that Boston was really ready to move on and the Giants were ready
09:17to move quickly and take all the money and give them what they felt was enough in terms
09:22of a package coming back.
09:23So they ultimately matched up that way.
09:26Alex Pavlovich, Giants insider, NBC Sports Barrier with us.
09:29Willard and Dibbs, 95-7 the game.
09:31Alex, I know that for some fans, a little bit of the shine had come off Harrison, but
09:36I'm interested with those names that you just threw out there.
09:39In the minds of the Giants, have Birdsong, Roop, maybe even Wisenhunt, had they passed Harrison
09:48in terms of prospects?
09:51No, I don't think so.
09:52Actually, what was really interesting to me is Sunday, I was kind of digging in pregame
09:56before our entire world went crazy with this first tweet from Robert Murray.
10:01I was kind of digging in on their pitching and, you know, I had heard it wasn't automatic
10:06that Kyle would come out of the rotation when Verlander returned this week.
10:10They still feel very strongly about him.
10:12You know, one thing that hasn't really gotten a lot of play the last couple days because
10:15of all the excitement is, like, they're going to hit innings limits with some of these
10:19young guys.
10:20And Kyle, they would not have been in that situation with him because he did spend most
10:24of last season in a rotation.
10:26He's a little bit more built up physically.
10:28He got a little bit of a late start because of the spring.
10:31I think he was the one, if you had asked me which one of all these young starters is
10:35most likely to start game three of a postseason series, I would have said Kyle Harrison because
10:39I think he was physically going to be prepared for that.
10:43And he was throwing, you know, there's still some inconsistency there, but he was throwing
10:46it about as well as I've seen him at times.
10:49And I would always, like, I've told some Red Sox people this.
10:51I'm like, go back just two years and watch his first star here at Oracle Park and how
10:55electric that was and what he did to the Cincinnati Reds.
10:59And the Giants have never forgotten that.
11:00And he's only 23 years old.
11:02And, you know, last year was tough with the injuries.
11:05But I don't think any of the shine was off in terms of the Giants perspective.
11:09And for the Red Sox, who are a pretty smart organization and have done a good job of building prospect
11:15capital, like Harrison was a must-have for him.
11:17You look at innings limits, and I'm glad you mentioned that because Mark and I were discussing
11:22it earlier, and you're talking about Birdsong and Landon Root potentially.
11:25Do you think the Giants could still be buyers in the market for a starting pitcher?
11:31I do.
11:32I don't know if necessarily it'll be a starter.
11:34I mean, if it is, if there's an opportunity.
11:37I mean, I do think you're in a position now where you start, like, asking yourself who starts
11:41game three and game four of a postseason series if you get there.
11:44And are you comfortable with the options you have in-house?
11:47And certainly, Justin Verlander, if he can stay healthy, is one of those guys.
11:51Hayden Birdsong, if he can keep pushing in his higher season, I think, can be one of those
11:55guys.
11:56But I do think that's a conversation to be had.
11:59There are probably some other minor holes here.
12:01I mean, they'll figure out, they have enough guys, I think, that they can figure out second
12:05base.
12:05But the production's tailed off in right field.
12:08We'll see where they go there and see what's available.
12:10But I do think they probably have to be careful as well, because, look, after Bryce Eldridge,
12:15it gets pretty shallow pretty quickly in terms of prospects.
12:18So I don't know that you want to be giving up.
12:20Certainly, they're in go-for-a mode.
12:23But I don't know that you want to be getting into bidding wars on July 31st and maybe mortgaging
12:29more of the future than they already have.
12:31Alex, this is great stuff.
12:32And I'm still trying to put all the puzzle pieces together.
12:35So take me through this, kind of like how this all comes together.
12:39I get why the Red Sox don't want this to go public.
12:43But when you have a talent like Rafi Devers, and you call a team, and you say, we want your
12:48number one prospect, and their answer is flat, no.
12:51Like, no, we're not doing that.
12:53How the hell did the Giants convince the Red Sox to not go, fine, then we're going to call
12:58other teams who will give us their top prospect?
13:01Well, I think first it goes back to the question you guys asked about money.
13:06That's really important here.
13:07I mean, the ability to take on, it's about $255 million.
13:11Like, that's, there are a lot of people around the game who are concerned about what this
13:15contract's going to look like long-term.
13:17And we don't know.
13:18I mean, he might be someone who is able to be your star DH until he's 40.
13:23We don't know.
13:23But I think the fact that he had fallen so out of favor in Boston that they were ready
13:28to just move on and wash their hands of this whole thing, and I think that made the money
13:32important.
13:33And then I will go back to what I said.
13:34I mean, you know, Kyle's 23.
13:36He's the age of most top prospects that they would be asking about from other teams.
13:42You know, Eldridge is a different case.
13:43But if you are looking for a top guy, like, he's 15 months removed for being the top left-handed
13:50pitching prospect in baseball.
13:51So I do think that's a major piece and can't really be understated that they did get at
13:57least one major, major piece if you look at his pedigree and the way he has thrown the
14:02last month.
14:03And you look at this team now, Alex, and Mark and I were talking about it earlier, you've
14:07got five, maybe six regular position players who will be in there night in and night out.
14:13What have you seen from the clubhouse this year about morale as it pertains to the stability
14:18that you now have in this lineup?
14:21Yeah, I mean, morale, I think I talked to you guys about this recently.
14:24It's been, it's just like been really steady.
14:28And it's been really, I think, something that has helped people ask, like, even before the
14:33Devers move.
14:33I mean, I have friends on other teams who come in and beat writers and executives I've known
14:39who go like, what's kind of going on over there?
14:41And I'm like, well, the pitching's really good.
14:43The bullpen's awesome.
14:44But this is a group that genuinely really gets along.
14:48They're all, I think, pushing in the same direction.
14:51And I think that is something that has helped them.
14:54And this is, you know, now they have kind of the superstar in the middle of the lineup.
14:57And I think what will help, everything that went wrong in Boston the last year and a half
15:01in Boston, people are still trying to figure out exactly how all this happened.
15:04But I think what will really help is that he doesn't have to do any of the stuff he was
15:09asked to do in Boston.
15:10He just has to come here and hit.
15:12Willie Adamas will handle, you know, being the clubhouse guy.
15:17Matt Chapman will handle that.
15:18Logan Webb will handle that.
15:20So I think a lot of pressure will be taken off of him because it has been a really good
15:24clubhouse in here and one that communicates.
15:26And that also comes from the top.
15:28I mean, really, where this all fell apart was Devers' relationship with the front office
15:33in Boston.
15:34And here, the one thing we've heard over and over again, going back to the Adamas deal,
15:37going back to Verlander, is how well Buster Posey communicates as a recent former player
15:43with other players.
15:44And I think that'll help quite a bit.
15:46Alex, you were around him all afternoon yesterday.
15:49What were your first impressions of Rafi the person?
15:53Very, very happy.
15:54He had a smile on his face the entire day.
15:58You know, look, we don't know where this is all going to go.
16:01I mean, this is, it did get pretty ugly in Boston.
16:05I will say, talking to some people, they were like, they didn't dislike him.
16:08They were just, it just got really contentious.
16:10And I think there were things he didn't want to do.
16:13And that does include, like, you know, some of the stuff that traditionally you do see.
16:17I mean, you hit a walk-off homer and you do the postgame and you do the postgame TV
16:23interview and then maybe do some radio and you do the postgame scrum.
16:26I think there's stuff that he wasn't really as comfortable with the last year,
16:29but it's a fresh start here.
16:31It's certainly a different market.
16:32I'm sure he took notice last night that he struck out in his first at-bat and got,
16:36like, half a standing ovation.
16:38And that's, this is not Boston.
16:40It's going to be a completely different thing for him.
16:43And I think my main impression from him and from talking to people who know him the last
16:48few days and going back to Sunday is this is a guy who just wants to play baseball.
16:51He just wants to play and he just wants to hit.
16:53But, and here in San Francisco, that will be, that will be what he is asked to do.
16:58He's not going to be asked to do anything beyond that.
17:00I, you know, I don't remember where, I think Greg said this to John Shea yesterday.
17:04He asked about being the face of the franchise and he said, we have like four of them.
17:08Yep.
17:08So he's not going to be asked to do too much of that.
17:11Um, and I think that'll really benefit him because he is one of the 10, 15 best hitters
17:16in the world.
17:16And all they're going to ask him to do here in San Francisco is fix the lineup.
17:20Um, Alex, real quick, before you go, what's your best guess as to when he plays first base?
17:25And, and I asked that with the breaking news in mind that apparently he is warming up tonight
17:30with a first base club for the first time.
17:32Well, I, yeah, I think he worked out lightly yesterday with maybe a third base club.
17:38I would think this would take some time.
17:41I'm watching him actually right now.
17:42Take grounders.
17:43I think it's, I don't know that it like, it's funny as it would be for him to play first
17:47base on Friday night against the Red Sox after refusing to do it in Boston.
17:51I don't know that Bob Melvin is one.
17:54I a hundred percent know Bob Melvin's not a troll.
17:56Uh, and I, I don't know that he's someone who wants to put that on his plate.
18:00I think in an ideal world, they would let him get really comfortable here in San Francisco.
18:05Remember this is a guy who signed when he was 16.
18:07Uh, he has been a Red Sox his entire career.
18:10He just not too long ago signed a 10 year contract to be there.
18:13The rest of his career goes across the entire country.
18:16A lot's going to be thrown at him.
18:18It's going to be emotional weekend.
18:19Um, it would be hilarious if they do that Friday.
18:21My guess is they want to get him comfortable there for about a week and then take a look,
18:25but he's played third base his entire career.
18:28And, um, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for him to move over.
18:32So we'll, we'll see.
18:33But my guess is they're going to be patient here.
18:35If you're looking at him, does, I mean, does he look comfortable?
18:40Yeah, it's fine.
18:40It's basically spring training.
18:42It's like, it's what do you want to guy just feel grounders?
18:45I think that's first base is a really hard position to judge, um, in game.
18:50I think they probably want him to get settled here.
18:52And, you know, you got, you do have to figure out a little bit, and this is what Bryce Eldridge
18:55is getting a crash course in the cutoff throws that you get a grounder to first with a runner
18:59on third, you're coming home or, um, runner on second.
19:03Are you going to third?
19:03So there's, there are actually some intricacies there.
19:06Um, but we'll see.
19:08I would guess that right now, given where the lineup is, and we did see last night,
19:12I mean, two runs that it's like, Hey, Rafi, go out and please just help us score for the
19:17next couple of weeks.
19:17And we'll reevaluate after that.
19:19No doubt.
19:20All right.
19:20Go talk to Steven boat.
19:21Thank you very much, Alex.
19:23We appreciate you.
19:24All right, guys.
19:24Anytime.
19:25Okay.
19:25There it is.
19:26That's Alex Pavlovich, NBC sports barrier giants inside.
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