00:00And now let's speak to the government, shall we? The Minister of Housing and Planning, Matthew Pennycook, who joins us now.
00:05Good to see you this morning, Mr. Pennycook. And you're here today to talk about half a million new homes.
00:11This is your announcement today. But you've also promised to end the use of migrant hotels by 2029.
00:18So it does beg the question, who are these houses for? Where are these migrants that you're moving out of hotels going to be housed?
00:26Well, we do need to take forward new sites and accommodation to get people out of hotels.
00:35I think your viewers will understand why that needs to happen. Hotel accommodation is incredibly expensive.
00:41And we do need to move people out there as those cases are worked through. And we are bringing down the caseload in the system.
00:47But when it comes to housing more generally, this is particularly why we've got such an ambitious 1.5 million new homes target as part of our plan for change.
00:55Because we've got to build, irrespective of levels of immigration, as you know, we've inherited an immigration asylum system in complete chaos.
01:03And we've got to restore order to it. But we've got to build more homes of all 10 years.
01:07Because for too many decades, we have there's been a huge mismatch between supply and demand when it comes to homes to rent and homes to buy.
01:15Sorry, Minister, forgive me. I don't think you quite answered the question that will these new homes go to illegal migrants?
01:22No. The Home Office and through contractors like Serco, for example, will take out contracts.
01:32So that will in some instances involve private rented sector accommodation.
01:36We're going to do that in a slightly different way with local authorities looking at those locally led solutions.
01:41But we do need to move people out of asylum hotels because they are incredibly expensive.
01:46Right. So that's a yes. Because there was a Treasury document a few weeks ago doing the rounds from the Office for Value for Money.
01:52And it was fairly explicit in there when it said that the asylum hotels would be alleviated and indeed ended by 2029
01:59by literally moving them into the 1.5 million new homes your government wants to build.
02:04So that's correct, is it?
02:05No, I don't think. I mean, let's look at...
02:10Well, that's what it says on the Treasury document, Minister.
02:13Do you think new homes to buy...
02:15Do you think new homes to buy that are freshly built are going to go to asylum seekers? No.
02:22Sorry to interject again. That's what it says on the Treasury website, sir.
02:25No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't.
02:29It does. There's a document called the Office for Value for Money.
02:31We do have to move people out of asylum.
02:33There's a document, Minister. Sorry to interrupt. Let's just get this clear.
02:36There's a Treasury document from the Office for Value for Money.
02:38I've read the document. I've read the document, Ben. Thank you.
02:39Right. And it says the pressure on asylum hotels will be alleviated through the 1.5 million new homes the government wants to build.
02:47So is that document wrong?
02:48Well, as I said, we've got to build more homes of all tenures to ensure that we've got supply coming through.
02:56That would be the case, whatever the state of the asylum system.
02:59I've been very clear, I think, in terms of the need to move people out of asylum hotels, which are expensive.
03:06In some instances, that will mean, for example, that people are going into the private rented sector.
03:11I don't think they're going into new build homes for market sale, which is the point I was trying to make in terms of some of the homes coming forward.
03:18But they will go, for example, into the private rented sector in some instances.
03:21But that is why we've got to grow the supply of homes of all tenures, homes to buy, homes to rent, affordable social homes.
03:27And there was that £39 billion worth of investment in social and affordable housing at the spending review announced, which is going to make a real difference.
03:35Let's stay with the topic of migration, shall we?
03:37It would be great to talk about the National Housing Bank.
03:42We will ask you about that. Let's just stay on migration, because we are on that topic.
03:4717,000 arrivals so far this year. This is the government that promised to smash the gangs.
03:52It's actually looking like it's set to be a record-breaking year.
03:58Well, as you know, and I've been on your programme many times and made this point, we inherited an immigration and asylum system in complete chaos.
04:06We do need to restore order to it. That was never going to be an overnight fix, because, not least because the criminal gangs that are profiteering from human misery are very well entrenched.
04:18But you know the steps we're taking. I've spoken on this programme many times before.
04:21Our borders bill, which is going through the House of Commons right now, will ensure that police and law enforcement agencies have those counterterrorism-style powers.
04:29We're making other changes. We've already deported 30,000 people that have got no right to be here, 4,500 foreign national offenders.
04:38That's a 14% increase. So we are turning things around, but it was never going to be an overnight fix.
04:43Minister, reports in The Times this morning suggest Shabana Mahmood is on the continent talking about the ECHR.
04:50Is that something Labour, this government, is open to, reforming the ECHR to really get a grip of the illegal boat crisis?
05:00Well, we are always in a position where we're keeping the Human Rights Act under review.
05:05We've been very clear already, and it was in the immigration white paper we published in the recent period, that we are reviewing Article 8 and how that is applied.
05:15The Home Secretary has also made clear that she is reviewing Article 3 of the ECHR, and how that applies in particular in foreign extradition cases, where the state of a prison overseas is cited as a reason.
05:28She is reviewing that.
05:30OK. Let's talk about what you're here to talk to us about today, which is the new National Housing Bank.
05:37Brilliant. It would be great to have a chance to mention that.
05:40Alongside £5 billion of new capital funding for housing, we're announcing today our intention to establish a new National Housing Bank to accelerate house building across the country, not least for the reasons we've just spoken about.
05:53This will be a new government-owned public finance institution that will have the autonomy and flexibility to be able to deploy loans, equity and guarantees to get projects moving.
06:04That's £16 billion worth of new funding.
06:06And because of the way it's constituted and how it will operate, similarly to the National Wealth Fund, it will make a return for government over the lifetime.
06:13And it's an important way we'll contribute to house building over the long run.
06:16We think that the funding through that £16 billion will enable up to £500,000 homes over the lifetime of the Parliament, but also to that £1.5 million new homes target.
06:26We think it will estimate that it will contribute just under £60,000 homes in this Parliament to that £1.5 million target.
06:33Yes, and indeed £53 billion worth of private investment as well, Minister, towards that.
06:38Can you tell me please how many new homes the government has built since taking power?
06:41Well, we've got figures only for the last year of full figures I've got, for example, 2023-24 indicates that just under 221,000 homes have been built.
06:55I expect the 24-25 figures when they're released to show rates that are similarly not where we need them to be.
07:02But that is because we've inherited from the previous government a series of anti-supply changes, and they will take time to work through in terms of the statistics.
07:10So we are turning things around.
07:11I fully expect in terms of, for example, planning applications coming forward to see a very sharp uptick in later months of this year and going into next year.
07:19So the reforms will take time to feed through into the statistics.
07:22But we are turning the situation around.
07:24We are going to meet that £1.5 million plan for change new homes target.
07:27OK, Matthew Pennycook, we're out of time with you, I'm afraid, but thank you very much for chatting with us this morning.
07:33Thank you, Minister.
07:34My pleasure. Thank you.
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