- 6/14/2025
This week on RealTrending, Tracey Velt chats with Hoby Hanna, CEO of Howard Hanna Real Estate Services and Hanna Holdings.
Hoby discusses the company’s culture-first M&A strategy, innovative consumer programs like the buy-borrow bundle, and how AI and data are shaping real estate. He also shares why collaboration matters and outlines his goal to reach 20% share in 20 major markets.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Howard Hanna targets culturally aligned acquisitions to drive strategic growth and market expansion.
The company prioritizes profitability and strong cash flow over rapid, unsustainable growth.
Real estate agents remain central to every transaction, reinforcing the firm's agent-first philosophy.
Howard Hanna is a full-service housing ecosystem, offering mortgage, title, and insurance services.
Organizing data for AI integration is a core focus to enhance efficiency and decision-making.
Innovation, including consumer programs like the buy borrow bundle and money-back guarantee, sets the company apart.
Related to this episode:
Howard Hanna disavows NAR’s Clear Cooperation Policy | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/howard-hanna-disavows-nars-clear-cooperation-policy/
Howard Hanna Executive Team
https://www.howardhanna.com/About/ExecutiveTeam
Howard W. "Hoby" Hanna, IV | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/howard-w-hoby-hanna-iv-6b26459/
Howard Hanna
https://www.howardhanna.com/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Hoby discusses the company’s culture-first M&A strategy, innovative consumer programs like the buy-borrow bundle, and how AI and data are shaping real estate. He also shares why collaboration matters and outlines his goal to reach 20% share in 20 major markets.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Howard Hanna targets culturally aligned acquisitions to drive strategic growth and market expansion.
The company prioritizes profitability and strong cash flow over rapid, unsustainable growth.
Real estate agents remain central to every transaction, reinforcing the firm's agent-first philosophy.
Howard Hanna is a full-service housing ecosystem, offering mortgage, title, and insurance services.
Organizing data for AI integration is a core focus to enhance efficiency and decision-making.
Innovation, including consumer programs like the buy borrow bundle and money-back guarantee, sets the company apart.
Related to this episode:
Howard Hanna disavows NAR’s Clear Cooperation Policy | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/howard-hanna-disavows-nars-clear-cooperation-policy/
Howard Hanna Executive Team
https://www.howardhanna.com/About/ExecutiveTeam
Howard W. "Hoby" Hanna, IV | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/howard-w-hoby-hanna-iv-6b26459/
Howard Hanna
https://www.howardhanna.com/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Everyone knows the country has been so divisive politically, but real estate has also been divisive as an industry on different views and the way different leaders run their companies.
00:14Well, today I spoke with Hobie Hanna, who is the CEO of Howard Hanna Real Estate Services and Hanna Holdings.
00:21And we had a great conversation about how the industry can kind of bring it back to neutral, make decisions that benefit everyone, including the consumers.
00:32And he had some great ideas. So enjoy the podcast.
00:37Hobie, welcome to The Real Trending Podcast.
00:40Thanks, Tracy. Glad to be here.
00:41Yeah, so happy to have you on.
00:44I want to start by talking about some of the M&A.
00:47You were one of the only companies that continued to buy other companies over the past several years.
00:55Other firms have now entered the fray, but I think it was just you and one other firm that were really looking at opportunities.
01:03So tell me where you stand now and how do you determine what is like a smart merger acquisition and what might be a distraction for you?
01:15That's a great question.
01:17So I guess we are really still sticking to a thesis that we've had over some time that in regards to M&A is that we believe that there are a lot of culturally aligned businesses to Howard Hanna and Hanna Holdings throughout our footprint and the expanded footprint we want to be in that are steeped in really understanding the brokerage business.
01:43You know, we're a family business, as you know, three generations, it's what we know, we understand the real estate brokerage, mortgage title and insurance business.
01:53We're not trying to come up with a brand new model or take away.
01:56We're looking at how we can advance technology and tools in the marketplace.
02:00But finding those like-minded companies that the agents seem to assimilate to that full service quality, hands-on support for the client and customer, being customer-centric to their needs and supporting the agents in their needs.
02:14And so, you know, we found that there's a lot of like-minded companies that are looking in some cases for an exit, which has been one way we've done things.
02:23We've also, over the last especially seven years or eight years, we found that some companies were looking to stay in leadership, stay aligned, maybe take proverbial chips off the table to use the poker reference.
02:36But instead of coming in and buying 100% of a company and having them get an earn out on the back end, in some cases, we kept those leaders in as partners where they still own a significant piece of the company, not majority, but a significant piece and run the day-to-day operations.
02:53So, you know, that's been a focus.
02:56Another focus has been, as we go into new markets, is looking for, for lack of better terms, a beachhead acquisition, somebody that is well-known and branded in the marketplace, is a well-run company, that we think that we can add some of our values and our other business models and opportunities and technology to take it from a good company or great company to an excellent firm.
03:19And so we've looked for those, and then once we're there in a market, we believe that that first company opens us for more consolidation and assimilation, driving costs down for the brokerage firm, providing more support for the realtors, therefore providing more marketing support for their agents.
03:36So that's been our thesis, and we think that even in the last couple years where the market's had its challenges and headwinds that we've all dealt with, we've just, if those like-minded companies are there, we've just, it's just made us all stronger and made us better.
03:51And so what is your strategy moving forward?
03:53Are you continuing with M&A when you find opportunities?
03:58Are you kind of taking some other growth levers and activating those?
04:04Yeah, we, so it's two thoughts.
04:08One is we think we're fortunate that we don't have to grow through M&A.
04:13We don't have to grow because of outside forces or shareholders that, you know, or people who've made investments on us and saying, hey, we need to see this top-line growth.
04:25So first and foremost, we want to be able to be profitable, create a good balance sheet with cash flow,
04:31make sure that our business units are integrating, growing market share, but on top of it, growing the essential service businesses that spin off brokerage,
04:40whether it be mortgage, title, insurance, property management, other areas,
04:44and making sure that those leaders who are focused on those areas, that we're giving the resources to execute on those returns.
04:51And then in acquisitions, we're very bullish on acquisitions right now.
04:55We think there's a great opportunity.
04:58And I think right now we're probably looking at, I think we have somewhere between three to four that are under a letter of intent as we sit here today that we're looking at.
05:09And uniquely, we're looking at, I think there's more opportunity to grow just in our existing footprint as well with the different avenues,
05:19more strategic acquisitions with title companies.
05:22We've done a couple of those in the last couple of years.
05:24We're looking at some mortgage bankers that could add value to what we're doing.
05:29We've done a couple of those over the years.
05:31And insurance firms.
05:32So we look at the sort of diversification, but still it all spins from the existing business model.
05:40Yeah.
05:40And how, you know, how do you see, you know, there's been this massive growth of kind of that single entity national brokerage coming up.
05:48Some have some core services, some don't.
05:52You know, how, how do you feel about competing with them?
05:56Um, is it, is it more difficult or are you of the philosophy that there's really a brokerage for everyone?
06:03Tell me a little bit about, you know, how you're strategizing around the growth of those firms.
06:11That's a good question.
06:12I think there's a couple of things that play around that.
06:14I think one is that, and I'm, it's not my phrase.
06:18I wish I could remember who I could give credit to one of the great minds in our industry saying that, that really what we're in is, is a housing services ecosystem today.
06:29That we're seeing that diversification of, of large mortgage companies deciding that, hey, they want to get to the customer earlier, uh, with some strategic acquisitions of brokerage firms or portals or websites.
06:42Um, you know, that's something we've been doing since the early eighties and we really went in the mortgage business to service our clients and give great financing options to our, to really did it to, for our, for our sellers and buyers.
06:56So we can control the destiny and our agents, not about just making money.
06:59That's a by-product, but doing it to provide a service.
07:02Um, so we think we've been in that ecosystem, um, and, you know, then looking at the title services and insurance.
07:09And, um, I think it's interesting seeing the new entrees that are coming in saying, okay, how do you, how do you work at these services together?
07:17How do you help that, that consumer all through the process?
07:21I, I, I think some of them may be coming at it thinking, making this disintermediate the real estate agent and broker.
07:27I think that, that, that having that real estate agent at the core of the transaction gives confidence to what is most people's largest personal investment.
07:35So I think that's a, a dangerous move, uh, and we're going to stay focused on keeping the realtor at the center of the transaction with the consumer and giving them guidance.
07:44Um, some of the other companies that don't get into that space, I find it interesting that oftentimes if you read some of their statements or earning calls, they're always, that's the next thing they're always going to do.
07:54Um, and so, so obviously they have their eye on it, but they're sort of like, is now the time or the place?
07:59Um, and so I think some of them will find their way there in one capacity or another, because I do think that the, that transactional ecosystem is going to get closer together.
08:08And, and maybe it's being forced that way because we all know the, the, the headwinds we still exist today.
08:14It's like a little bit lack of inventory, affordability of price, maybe not as many refis in the future as one would think, you know, I don't think rates are going to go back to 3%.
08:23There's going to be this panacea.
08:25So, um, so, so I do think that, that we're going to see more of that collaboration, partnership and consolidation.
08:31And then there very well could be some, and I, like, I do think there's choices for everybody.
08:36I think there will be some options of brokerage firms that decide that they don't want that business and that here's where, where their focus is.
08:43And it's just more of a, of a question of, uh, of how are you giving a full service to the client and then support to the, to the real estate agent during the transaction.
08:53Yeah.
08:54I mean, LPT doesn't, they don't believe in core services at all.
08:58And he founded a mortgage company first.
09:00Um, they keep it completely separate.
09:03Now they, they just do servicing and, uh, refis, I think so.
09:06Yeah.
09:07I mean, it's, it's, it is not a, like the, the, the idea and concept that because you have a in-house mortgage company that all the real estate agents and their customers are automatically going to default to use you.
09:18It's not the case.
09:19Um, you know, you actually, I've always said that our mortgage companies held to a higher standard than anybody else that, because we say, Hey, it's one team, one dream tagline we use.
09:29These services are essential.
09:30We have loan officers in every office and insurance agents.
09:33Our agents hold that to a higher standard because it's, it's the same name.
09:37So if they're going to use Howard Hanna mortgage and they're also a Howard Hanna agent, there isn't a separation if something goes wrong.
09:44So they expect us to be at a higher level where, you know, there's some days I'm like, okay, well, if you did separate and you could say ABC mortgage, it's not my fault.
09:54Even though I recommended them to you, even though I do 20 transactions a year with them, um, I don't run them.
10:01I'm not there.
10:01Um, so it holds us to a higher standard and we don't get a hundred percent capture rate.
10:06Not every agent feels comfortable and there's a relationship basis and we don't force the agents to work with us, you know, but we, what we do try to do is, is be very, very innovative with product that we think helps in challenging markets.
10:20And, and so for example, I mean, I can go back through, you know, like I said, even the reason we started a mortgage company was because we, we were finding that the savings and loans in the eighties weren't hitting where they needed to be.
10:31And so we, we said, how do we do this ourselves to give a financing option to great salespeople?
10:35But I can go forward and, you know, in, in the housing crisis in 2009, we'd not only increased our lines of credit to offer that financing for our clients, but we also came out with it that time, an innovative job loss guarantee mortgage.
10:48That if you bought a house from us and you lost your job, we'd make your payments, but you had to use our mortgage company.
10:54We, this past year with the changes in, um, you know, sort of the changes that came out of the industry lawsuit and, and with commissions and stuff, we knew agents were nervous about having to list a buyer, as I say, and disclose and say, Hey, Mr. and Mrs. Buyer, you may be paying me.
11:09We, we put that said, we offered an option and said, if you work with us as a buyer's agent, uh, and buy a house from us and then get your mortgage with us, we'll save you a half a point on the mortgage up to $10,000, which is, we call our buy borrow bundle, which has been an incredible catalyst for the consumer.
11:27We've so far saved consumers almost for $4 million in costs since last October, November, um, when they did, when they did the completeness of the transaction and we're not increasing the rate, we're not charging a referral fee for it.
11:40We're, we're, we're, we're keeping less profitability in the mindset that we can service more clients and more buyers and make the home home purchase maybe cheaper and more economical, but not taking away from, from the existing ecosystem that's there.
11:55So, um, that gives us that flexibility to have creative programs and do things like that, that, that we see other competitors not be able to differentiate themselves.
12:04Yeah.
12:04And that's so important.
12:05And I mean, to be able to, um, pivot fairly quickly and service the, the client, because things are changing so quickly now in the industry too, um, and in the market.
12:16Um, and so I wanted to talk to you about like, where are you investing in your brokerage today?
12:24That's different.
12:24Like I, you're probably gonna say AI or something, but like, you know, that's different today.
12:30Um, and, and what are you seeing as some of the, the.
12:35Maybe some of the trends that people aren't really paying attention to just yet.
12:40Yeah.
12:41Um, I think that there's, um, there's a couple of things I'm not, you know, I'm sure everybody you asked that question to says AI.
12:48And we're, I'm not even sure we, we, we know why we say it other than it gets a good, it gets a good headline and buzz.
12:53I think we're trying to understand AI.
12:55I mean, to address that we have partnered and looked at a couple of companies that from a search perspective or marketing perspective, where, where, where AI can help make the process easier.
13:06But we are so far away from, I think, where the speed of that's going to come to say that our focus is there today.
13:13I think one of the things that we're investing in, one of the things I know we're investing in is to be prepared for that, is organizing our data.
13:22Um, we, we sit on a, um, uh, just a land, a tremendous amount of data as a company because we have a historical data of the transactions that we do and the listings we sell and the buyers we work with.
13:34But we also have more, where, where we may be a little difference.
13:38We've got significant mortgage data, the title closing data, um, the, the survey, because we have a survey company data, um, you know, and then even figuring out how you take the home inspection data back to the consumer to protect them.
13:51So the, the data we're sitting on and a few, about 18 months ago, we've talked about how we, how we could get our data organized, not necessarily to monetize.
14:01Maybe in the past it was like, oh, could you sell it to somebody?
14:03Well, we're not a national company.
14:04So, I mean, there, that comes to play, but we began and spent dollars to invest, to organize our data, sort of creating, but above my pay grade, what our, our, our data team that we now have, um, has, uh, claims our data reservoir.
14:19So they're organizing the data from all the different systems that we use.
14:22And I think that's the one thing about legacy brokerage firms is we may have an accounting system that's different than our loan operating system.
14:29That's different than CRM.
14:30That's different.
14:31So we've been compiling that data to organize so that one, we can begin as, as, as propensity marketing data starts being refined.
14:40We can directly say, okay, here's past customers we have.
14:43And will the propensity data be able to say, this individual wants to buy today or sell today based on other trends and other signals.
14:50Um, so we've invested in some outside companies to work with us and then our data inside organizing that and then looking at who the firms are that can help us maximize that.
14:59Um, and, and, and being that we're in that sort of whole service ecosystem, um, it's allowed us to have some really interesting dialogues, um, with, with people that we would see as, as vendors, partners, new alliances that are, that are light years ahead in that space.
15:16And already looking at how they may use AI where, but the first thing we, 18 months ago started talking to some folks, they're like, is your data organized?
15:24So we're at that point where it's now organized, where we can start plugging in with the right vendors.
15:31And, and, and that's the hard thing is that we're looking at, um, you know, our groups probably looking at 10, 15 new startup, great companies a week that, that have great intentions and great ideas.
15:41And thank goodness, I've got some people around me who say, well, they're not ready for that.
15:45So, so I think that's where the future can be is that, you know, how are we organizing it?
15:50What are we doing with our data?
15:52What can we do in real time to, to, and therefore then make, when a seller wants to sell their house, make it that much quicker, faster, and convenient because we have a little more pinpoint targeting and same with a buyer that chooses to, to list with us is to work with that buyer and say, we can help make this process easier and faster.
16:10So it's sort of, you know, skate to where the puck's going as opposed to what we've done traditionally.
16:16So, yeah, it is interesting.
16:17It's such a buzzword.
16:18And what I'm finding is that, um, you know, brokers and agents are using it in the most minimal possible way.
16:27Um, but don't, it's one of those things where it's hard to grasp exactly what it can do just yet.
16:35Um, it's almost like, you know, back when people were starting to build their technology platforms, remember, it was like this buzzword and all these brokers are building these platforms and nobody really knew what to include, what to do, build it yourself, go out.
16:49It's kind of the same with AI, right?
16:51It's, you know, it's in that infancy, um, where it eventually will probably become table stakes, just like your tech platform is.
16:59But right now, um, it's just a challenge figuring out exactly what you want it to do and what is the best use of it.
17:06So, yeah, it's, I had this thought this weekend of like figuring out who are some of the best minds I know in the, in the industry at all different levels and inviting them to come in, uh, for a few days this summer to Cleveland and just have like a, our own AI symposium.
17:23And just sort of everybody bring to the table and invite anybody, you know, that's in the space because it's, and we may do that because there it's moving so quickly, you know, and, and, um, in right under, and just not in our industry, everything that it's, it's, it's, you know, learning where we can from other industries, the best in practice.
17:44But, but I think it's one of those things that it will be table stakes.
17:47It will replace a lot of what we're doing and it'll be here sooner than we think.
17:51Yeah.
17:52Yeah.
17:52Actually, um, I just interviewed Tammy Party.
17:55She's, um, has a company out in LA and a small brokerage, um, I think 50 agents.
18:01And she's part of this AI collective with CEOs from all different industries.
18:07Um, it's like a hundred different CEOs.
18:09And, um, I, it was fascinating.
18:11So, you know, just what you're, what you could learn about it from other people too.
18:16So, yeah, it is, it is from every other industry.
18:18It's just amazing how it's going to affect everywhere.
18:20So yeah, it's great.
18:22So what do you think is the biggest threat to a real estate brokerage today?
18:35Um, I would say that I believe the biggest threat to real estate brokerage today is ourselves.
18:40Um, and it, there's a great debate that I guess is going on in the industry and it's interesting
18:49where some people, no matter what side of the debate you may be on, and nobody really
18:53knows, in my opinion, very few of us know exactly where people are, but, but this debate
19:00over how the role that, that organized real estate should have, um, over the entrepreneurs
19:07who are running businesses, um, the debate of what do clients really want.
19:13And some of that debate is taking place with people who've never talked to a client, you
19:17know, uh, that they haven't been in the kitchen table in a long time, um, to sort of say, here's
19:23a strategy.
19:23Do you like this strategy?
19:24Well, yes, I do.
19:25Or to say, you know, and I think it's some people all, and some people could, Hey, they
19:30could accuse me of holding onto a bastion of how things were done.
19:33And I actually, if I think anybody talked to me, I'm, I'm more to the, I'm trying to
19:38be more progressive to how we give sellers choice, buyers choice, but also brokers choices
19:42to invest in their business without having so many guardrails.
19:46Um, and I, and I think that's the challenge.
19:48I think there's such creativity and, uh, I would say, I wish that some of the thought leaders
19:54would stop arguing in LinkedIn, um, and sit down and say, Hey, maybe our system needs
20:04improvement.
20:04You know, maybe our industry needs more dollars put into it and whether those are private
20:09dollars or somewhere else.
20:10Uh, and maybe there can be an improvement that's for the good of the whole industry.
20:14That that's, that's how I feel.
20:15Because I think when, when an industry, when we're arguing so much, I mean, listen, I, I
20:20have my perspective over my perspective is mine.
20:24I don't believe that everybody should have an exclusive listing and things should be hidden
20:27because I don't agree with clear cooperation.
20:30I somehow have been brushed into this group.
20:32That's like trying to like go back to the dark ages and hold things off and, and have
20:38modelist books and stuff.
20:39And, and no, that that's not what I'm looking for.
20:42I do also think that sometimes there are sellers, uh, a couple of things.
20:46One, there are sellers that, that don't just want to be put on a thousand websites for
20:52different reasons, that they want somebody with a marketing strategy.
20:55They want somebody to say, well, that's a unique creative strategy for this company.
21:00Like we, outside of all that argument, we we've had a program for years, which is one
21:04of our, you know, sort of, uh, primary marketing products for sellers and buyers, both.
21:10It's just a hundred percent money back guarantee.
21:12Okay.
21:13Nobody else in the country.
21:14It's not a guarantee sale.
21:15It's not, if you don't sell it, I buy it back.
21:17It is Tracy.
21:18If you buy a house from us, okay, whatever you pay for it, we'll buy it back from you.
21:24If you're unhappy for any reason whatsoever in the first year that you live in the home.
21:28Okay.
21:29It's, it's an insurance policy that you're buying this big investment.
21:32Did you make the right choices supportive?
21:35It's a program that we've had, we believe is innovative and unique, and we have it in every
21:39market.
21:39No other company that I know of offers such a program.
21:42Well, the uniqueness is I, because we choose, because we're taking the risk of potentially
21:48buying the house back, we only do it on listings that are with Howard Hanna and with buyers that
21:54choose to work with Howard Hanna.
21:55So we're not offering, we're offering to cooperate.
21:59We're offering to share.
22:00We're offering you to bring your offer, but we will not offer to buy the house back from
22:05another brokerage firm's buyer.
22:07It just, okay.
22:09So, you know, you look at that and say, hey, that's an innovative program, Howard Hanna.
22:12That's creative.
22:14But organized real estate makes it as such that I can't market that product.
22:21I can't market that this house is 100% money back guarantee home in the MLS.
22:26I can't put it in the comments because I'm not offering it as a cooperative to everybody.
22:34Okay.
22:34So therefore, fine.
22:35I can't do that.
22:36That's been the rule.
22:37Well, now the way the distribution of information goes, that also means that I can't have that
22:43and somehow it sent to like Zillow and realtor.com and portals saying this house has 100% money
22:50back guarantee.
22:50I have to go in and edit it or my agents do to put that marketing and find that.
22:56And so if somebody wants that, they have to come to HowardHanna.com to see which houses
23:00are approved.
23:02Now, okay, when the argument is that your listing should be everywhere so that the whole market
23:09can see it, well, then shouldn't my 100% money back guarantee be everywhere?
23:13So the consumer who is working with an agent at another broker says, I think I want Howard
23:18Hanna because I want them to stand behind the value.
23:20Like, that's my problem with the rules.
23:23It's that give flexibility, you know, know what the rules are and not have one mandate
23:29across the board that could hinder creativity and innovation and then make somebody say,
23:36well, I think the industry is all against the consumer because of this and we should have.
23:40So that's, you know, that's where I think our biggest challenge is, is that let's let some
23:44creativity and innovation flow and let's use Modelist as a B2B at their core so that people
23:54know what's for sale.
23:54And let's have boards and the National Association, you know, protect housing and do some of the
24:02great things like they did recently with the new tax codes and stuff, but not get into telling
24:07everybody that it all has to look alike.
24:09So, you know, so I think that's what could hurt us.
24:11Well, no, I agree.
24:13But I also think that we've, we've gone through this, you know, ever since one company came
24:21to the stage, let's just put it that way.
24:23We've started vilifying leaders of different companies or models or, you know, just kind
24:32of, you know, the, the spirit of collaboration isn't as strong as it used to be.
24:39Of course, you're competing against each other.
24:41Of course, we know that.
24:42But it's, it's become more personal where I feel like some leaders are just being vilified.
24:48Um, some leaders are being, you know, raised up just because they have a different view
24:55of how to run their business.
24:56Right.
24:57And I think that's a dangerous precedent to set in the industry that for years was very
25:02collaborative.
25:03Yeah.
25:03I think at our core, we're still pretty collaborative.
25:06Yeah.
25:06I think there, I think there's some really, you know, I, I think that, well, I think at our
25:13core that I feel like I'm still very collaborative with a lot of people in the industry.
25:18Or I try to be, and I'm willing to have open dialogue.
25:21I think it's, it's not just our industry.
25:23Unfortunately, we live in a society that draws lines and refuses to listen to each other and
25:28uses social media, um, to, to, to take shots at each other and, and hide.
25:35And for a lot of people to hide behind, um, you know, not having to reclaim who they are
25:40that made the statement and tries to vilify the person and, and where are they vilifying
25:45from?
25:45I mean, you know, I don't agree with some things, but I will tell you that, um, I've
25:50had in the last week dialogue with six or seven, uh, president CEOs of MLSs and had great
25:55conversation about like, how do we work together?
25:58Cause I'm not looking at, I've had, I've had great conversation with the, with, with
26:02Nikea Wright, the new CEO of NAR.
26:04And she knows it's been, you know, I, I'm not happy about what happened with some things
26:09that I had to deal with in the last year and some others and some other friends of mine
26:12had to deal with and some other people in the industry.
26:15And so I just, I'm pretty straightforward.
26:17So I just gave my opinion, you know, and, and it got picked up.
26:20And, but as some of these people said, we know your opinion, you, you haven't been shy
26:24to say it cause that's just who I am.
26:26Um, but I do agree with you.
26:28I think, I think society's become more divisive.
26:30I think people draw sides.
26:31They don't want to listen to the other side, sound bites are more important or headlines
26:34than really what's said.
26:36And, and I do think it's a shame even, you know, naming some of those, like the, the two
26:42guys that I wish would just stop talking about all this stuff and, and focus on their great
26:46businesses are Robert Refkin and James Wiggins.
26:49And I think the world of both of them, I really do.
26:52I mean, and I would, I told both of them, just, you know, go run your businesses.
26:56Enough's enough.
26:57I mean, we're, um, but, but they're passionate about where they come from for their
27:01businesses on it.
27:02And I respect that.
27:04Uh, and you know, and I, um, and I respect where they're coming from and their constituents
27:08feel the way they do.
27:10But I think if they, everybody was to step back and look at and just collaborate and say,
27:15I think good things can come out of it.
27:18And that's one of the things that our industry has always had.
27:20We've, we, we've, we've realized we need each other in a way.
27:23And I guess if maybe some people don't think you need that anymore, there's going to just
27:28be one brokerage firm.
27:31Um, you know, I do worry that, that two types of models come out of all this and one, and
27:39because we're in a challenging market, which we are still is that the two models are one
27:44that is really a consumer and agent service oriented.
27:48How much support can we give you?
27:49What other products can we bring to you so that you've got great technology and marketing
27:53and call that the retail model.
27:56And then on the other hand, a wholesale model that says, we don't even care if you sell a
28:00house, you just pay your dues.
28:01You pay 1200 bucks a year to, to join an MLS aboard state and national.
28:06And if you're here, you know, you make something that's great.
28:10You use our services, but really like this, this wholesale, uh, and I worry that, um, not
28:17that either model's bad.
28:18It's just that, you know, if those are the two models, you know, how's the consumer end
28:24in between?
28:25Do they understand that?
28:26Cause I do think right now we're not at that point where it's like wholesale and retail.
28:30I think everybody's still retail for the most part, retail focused and focused on taking
28:35care.
28:36I think I've grown, I'm a real estate agent.
28:38I grew up with real estate agents.
28:39It's like all I know.
28:40I go, and the, the, the, the 15,000 that work for me and the many I've met, they really,
28:46whether they sell one house or they sell a thousand a year, they really care about their
28:50customers.
28:51Like they think that they do really believe they're helping somebody achieve the success
28:55of finding a home, a place for their family, call it the American dream if you want.
29:00Um, and, and I think real estate agents do care about that.
29:03Um, but I think some of the leaders are making it so divisive and driving it apart.
29:09And some of the voices I find, I'm not even sure what they, the ones who are being most
29:13divisive, I'm not sure what they do.
29:14I mean, I don't mean it negatively.
29:16I don't, I think they, they just have podcasts and they're selling some kind of services,
29:20not you, but you know, you're, you're, you're covering the industry and have for a long time.
29:24These are people I like who've never heard of before weighing in and vilifying some of
29:28the folks, which I think makes, is not good for, for the industry as a whole.
29:32Well, I have interviewed leaders of almost every, I think probably every one of the 500
29:39companies in the top, you know, top 500 probably or close to it.
29:44And I will say that I never got a feeling from a single one of them that they didn't care
29:49about their business, their agents, the industry.
29:53They just might have different views on how to, how to do it.
29:56Right.
29:57But, um, I didn't, I don't, I can't remember a single one where I felt like, oh, he's just
30:02in for the money or he's just, she's just, you know, wants the promotion.
30:07Um, so I do think that sure there might be other motives, you know, for, for some things,
30:14but in general, I think everyone just wants it to be a better business, right?
30:19They just want the industry to be better in general.
30:23So I have, I have not met, you know, I, in my career, I've not met, and I might not
30:31have met all the 500, but I've met a lot and I've never, I've never walked away meeting
30:38somebody who's in the business or was in the past saying they were in it for, they're
30:41in this, they're in, in my industry for the wrong reasons, you know, that, that we're
30:48all, you know, we're in business and we're capitalists and we're trying to grow our businesses
30:55and our income and our revenue and support our, our model and our program.
30:59But just cause somebody's different or has a different model doesn't mean I've always
31:03felt they're in it to benefit society.
31:06Yeah.
31:06And I still feel that way.
31:08I just think that sometimes there's other voices that, um, come into it and, and, and
31:13they might not, they may, maybe in the real estate business, but not really in the real
31:18estate business that they might be trying to sell, uh, an educational platform or a different
31:23voice or be divisive or whatever it may be, um, a marketing that, that, and this is the
31:30industry that they think, Hey, if I can be divisive, I can come up with something new.
31:33And, and, and I think that's a shame that we're allowing with our public arguments in,
31:39in social media platforms to, to create that.
31:42Yeah.
31:43Yeah.
31:43And I think it was a little hyperbole.
31:45I have not interviewed all 500.
31:47Uh, it's probably more like a hundred.
31:49I'm sure you have.
31:50No, over your career, I'm sure you have.
31:53But, uh, but yeah.
31:55So my last question is, is kind of, um, you know, what's next for Hannah?
32:01Um, you know, what's next for your company?
32:03Uh, that's a great question, um, that we, we challenge ourselves and ask ourselves all
32:07the time.
32:08Um, you know, we, we have a, uh, we have a leadership team that, um, the majority of which
32:18are, are in from early fifties to their late thirties.
32:23Um, and that's family and non-family alike.
32:26Um, and you know, we, we, I think we all have a fire and an ambition, uh, to want to continue
32:33to grow the brand and grow in our markets.
32:36Um, but we, we do have this, um, we don't feel like we have a pressure that we have to
32:44grow for growth's sake.
32:46So we're going to find the right strategic, uh, companies.
32:50Um, what we find really interesting is we're talking a lot more now to, um, in some markets
32:54where we aren't, um, where that, that sort of platform broker isn't there to, to, to come
33:01into a market with, we're having a lot more dialogue with big teams, which is unique that
33:05are almost brokers within brokerage firms.
33:07And they're feeling like they need a little direction and, and, and, and some ownership
33:12and, and a new, uh, a, a sort of, you know, real estate centric company that gets it, not
33:19just tech centric and not just, you know, fee centric, but understands the consumer choice.
33:25Uh, so we're having a lot more opportunity there.
33:27Um, and, you know, I think we still have a goal of, you know, I have a goal of, of the collective
33:34group of five years from now, you know, we, we have this BHAG goal of being in 20 major
33:41markets with a 20% market share, uh, and delivering good products and services.
33:46So, uh, how we get there is going to be interesting and, and whether it's through MNA, whether it's
33:51more organic growth, whether it's more through franchise modeling that we've been talking
33:56more and more to people about.
33:57Um, but we think, uh, we're poised to, to bring the brokerage and then follow up with
34:02that with the uniqueness of, as we call it, the essential services, especially mortgage
34:07title and insurance and, and, uh, more recently, a lot of property management, which has been
34:11quite interesting.
34:12No, that's great.
34:13Yeah.
34:14Uh, well, Hobie, thanks so much for joining Real Friending.
34:17It's always a pleasure to speak with you.
34:18You too.
34:19Thanks for taking the time to have me on.
34:21Thanks.
34:21So.
Recommended
17:18
|
Up next
21:45