John and Charles investigate the splinter groups that emerged from the destructive sectarianism of the post-Branham religious movement. They examine how these breakaway groups—often dismissed as fringe by mainstream followers—are actually the fruit of Branham’s message. Beginning with Estel Bieler, whose sect imposed celibacy and led to broken marriages, they trace a bizarre and disturbing lineage of beliefs that moved from isolation and abstinence to polygamy, reincarnation theology, and radical mysticism. They explore how many of these splinter groups were not just influenced by Branham but also influenced him in return, creating a self-reinforcing cycle of doctrinal extremes and spiritual dysfunction.
The discussion underscores how William Branham’s inner circle, mental health issues, and doctrinal instability created the conditions for this chaotic legacy. From polygamous leaders who claimed divine mandates to missionaries who merged Hindu mysticism with deity worship, John and Charles emphasize that these are not isolated “bad apples” but direct outcomes of the theological tree itself. The episode concludes by previewing even more sects to be discussed in the future, showing how widespread and extreme these splinters have become—all while being rooted in the same prophetic tradition.
00:00 Introduction
03:04 Fragmentation of the Message: Major and Minor Sects
07:21 The Rise of Esle Beer’s Celibate House Church Sect
11:03 The Psychological Impact and Family Damage Caused by Beer’s Teachings
18:33 The Polygamist Doctrine of J.T. Parnell
24:48 The Release of “Marriage and Divorce” and Polygamy Justification
29:39 Paul Lowry’s Deity Claims and Indian Mission Work
33:58 The 1972 Failed Rapture and Hindu-Mystic Blending
40:01 William Branham’s Borrowed Doctrines and UFO Theology
43:08 Message Culture and the Obsession with “New Revelation”
45:48 Donald Parnell and the “Third Testament” Sect
49:01 The Theophany Doctrine and Millennial Age Delusion
53:02 Summary: The Rotten Fruit of Doctrinal Extremes
54:15 Closing Remarks and Preview of Next Episode
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
The discussion underscores how William Branham’s inner circle, mental health issues, and doctrinal instability created the conditions for this chaotic legacy. From polygamous leaders who claimed divine mandates to missionaries who merged Hindu mysticism with deity worship, John and Charles emphasize that these are not isolated “bad apples” but direct outcomes of the theological tree itself. The episode concludes by previewing even more sects to be discussed in the future, showing how widespread and extreme these splinters have become—all while being rooted in the same prophetic tradition.
00:00 Introduction
03:04 Fragmentation of the Message: Major and Minor Sects
07:21 The Rise of Esle Beer’s Celibate House Church Sect
11:03 The Psychological Impact and Family Damage Caused by Beer’s Teachings
18:33 The Polygamist Doctrine of J.T. Parnell
24:48 The Release of “Marriage and Divorce” and Polygamy Justification
29:39 Paul Lowry’s Deity Claims and Indian Mission Work
33:58 The 1972 Failed Rapture and Hindu-Mystic Blending
40:01 William Branham’s Borrowed Doctrines and UFO Theology
43:08 Message Culture and the Obsession with “New Revelation”
45:48 Donald Parnell and the “Third Testament” Sect
49:01 The Theophany Doctrine and Millennial Age Delusion
53:02 Summary: The Rotten Fruit of Doctrinal Extremes
54:15 Closing Remarks and Preview of Next Episode
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend,
00:47Charles Paisley, the founder of christiangospelchurch.org, and the author of Come Out of Her, My People.
00:53Charles, it's good to be back and to talk about all things destructive cults in the message.
00:59A lot of people don't really know this history because they lump everybody into the same basket.
01:05And when you see some, I hate to use the word, but there's no other word to describe it.
01:11When you see some lunatic that's gone rogue, even within the message sect and many of its
01:17primary splencher groups, they disavow those that go to the extreme.
01:22And what's odd about this is, whenever I first started examining William Branham and his prophecies,
01:29and then suddenly discovered that he was changing his prophecies over time, and that
01:33there's actually real question as to whether he even had a prophecy at all.
01:39I was looking at the verse, what's it from Matthew 7, I think it is,
01:43Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, because inwardly they're ravenous wolves.
01:50And, you know, as I'm examining the prophecies, I'm really dwelling on that.
01:54I'm thinking about the false prophet who's humble and sincere from the outside, but inside they're filled with evil.
02:03And I never really continued on, but after you really take a step back, you start to continue to read in that passage,
02:11it says you will know them by their fruits, and it gets to the part where it says a good tree cannot bear good fruit,
02:19and therefore you know them by their fruits, essentially, is what it's saying.
02:23And I began to think about all of the various splencher groups from the message.
02:28You had the main sect, which we've talked about, and it's just filled with rotten fruit.
02:33We've gone through it, and even, you've probably seen it in the comment feeds,
02:38people come on there and they say you can't condemn the whole message by these bad apples that are in here.
02:44But, yes, you can. That's exactly, literally what the Bible says.
02:49You know them by the fruit. You know them by the bad apples.
02:51But then those bad apples produce worse bad apples, and those worse bad apples produce even worse bad apples.
02:59So, now that we're getting into the splencher groups, we're going to actually do what the Bible is instructing us to do.
03:07We're going to examine the message by its fruit.
03:10That's very true, John.
03:11You know, we have, if our listeners remember, we have been working for, I don't know,
03:15I think this is about episode 30, working our way through the history post-Branham,
03:20and specifically looking at the different sects of the message.
03:24I think at this point we went through one, two, three, four, five.
03:27I think we've went through five of what I consider the major sects of the message.
03:33And there's still one more major sect we need to cover, which is the main sect, John.
03:37And maybe we'll get there on the other side of this next few episodes.
03:42But between the five and six, I'll say the six to seven major sects of the message,
03:48there you will find, I would say in those groups have 75 to 80% of the total message population
03:56is in those seven or so sects of the message, the way that I would categorize it anyway.
04:02But you still have this other 25% of the message following that's not really in one of those larger sects,
04:11those larger international fellowships.
04:13And those are what we want to talk a little bit about next.
04:18We're going to talk about some of those more prominent ones in that other 25%.
04:21And you're correct, John.
04:23When people up from the outside a lot of times look at the message,
04:26they don't realize that there are all of these sects.
04:29And while there are, you know, seven or eight large major international sects,
04:34there are dozens and dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds, John,
04:39of smaller, tinier, minor regional sects in the message as well that hates everybody.
04:48There might be 50 of them in a church somewhere,
04:50and they're the only people that are going to make it, right?
04:53There's quite a few of those, John.
04:54I mean, and it's hard to say how many because they're so isolated, right?
04:58They cut themselves off, they wall themselves off, and they are, you know,
05:03they have no contact even with the mainstream of the message anymore.
05:06So it's hard to even know, you know, what's even going on there.
05:10A lot of them are in a place there's just no way to have any real knowledge of them or what's going on.
05:16But there's potentially hundreds of those.
05:17There's certainly dozens and dozens.
05:19But I want to refer everyone back again to just a little diagram chart I have showed a number of times.
05:25This is a high-level diagram chart, John, showing the main sect of the message here on the left,
05:34and then on towards the right, how the different factions of the main sect gradually broke away and produced some of these other sects.
05:42This is by no means anywhere near comprehensive.
05:45But this is just to give an idea of where some of the sects are coming from.
05:48Because when you think of the main sect of the message, the main sect of the message is not like the message people think of a denomination in the sense of they're not monolithic.
06:02The main sect of the message is not monolithic in its views or its beliefs.
06:06The main sect of the message is best viewed as a coalition of subgroups with differing interpretations of the message
06:14and different models and methods for doing their services and things.
06:18And they all get along together because they respect Branham.
06:22That's the best way, I think, to view the main sect.
06:25And over time, though, the main sect pushes out the people who are least conforming.
06:35The anti-church order group was gradually pushed away.
06:38The quotes preachers were gradually all pushed out in several different waves.
06:42And as you come up to modern times, you know, I'm thinking, you know, the 2000s, the late 90s and 2000s,
06:49the main sect of the message becomes increasingly tape church oriented, right?
06:54Because what's happening over time is the churches that have live preaching
06:58gradually are becoming less and less, more and more of a minority within the main sect.
07:06And the tape churches are gradually rising to become the majority.
07:09Because it's generally the preaching churches that are getting pushed out or schisming out.
07:13Because the people who just listen to the tapes are more apt to stay in the main sect.
07:17Well, anyways, as we come along today, we're going to start talking about some of these minor groups,
07:21which also in some ways split away from the main sect of the message.
07:26And so the very first one, John, that I think we want to talk about today is the sect of Estel Beeler.
07:33Estel Beeler.
07:35And so who is Estel Beeler?
07:36Let me talk about him just a little bit.
07:39Estel Beeler is an old time message preacher.
07:42He is actually, Estel Beeler baptized your grandpa, John, when he converted into the message.
07:48Estel Beeler baptized Raymond Jackson, the pastor of our church, who converted into the message.
07:53So this gets you an idea how far back Estel Beeler is.
07:56Estel Beeler was in the message before Raymond Jackson, before Willard Collins.
08:01He is one of the very earliest message preachers, and he was attending the Branham Tabernacle.
08:07He was actually a healing evangelist who traveled the revival circuit during the 40s and 50s, you know.
08:14Not in William Branham's party, but as like a parallel working evangelist.
08:20And he was in Voice of Healing magazine and stuff.
08:22But he lived in Georgetown, Indiana, and he ended up fellowshipping at the Branham Tabernacle.
08:30So Estel Beeler was just a fairly important person.
08:33He was really, in the early days of the message, he was one of the most senior preachers.
08:38He was right there with Ormond Neville, with your grandfather, with Raymond Jackson.
08:42He was here before Lee Vale, before Perry Green, before Ed Biscoll, before pretty well any other message preacher you could think of.
08:49He was one of the very first message preachers, and that carried a lot of weight.
08:53So what happened, John, is when William Branham died, Estel Beeler had a dream, or a vision.
09:03It gets a tad fuzz. I think it was a vision.
09:05And in his vision, he sees a church, and he sees the word Ichabod wrote over the door.
09:11And this is how Estel Beeler's following was labeled.
09:15They were the Ichabod group.
09:16He saw Ichabod over the door.
09:18And he interpreted that vision to mean that the glory of God had departed church buildings.
09:28And it was now a sin to have a service in a church building.
09:32Henceforth, there should only be house churches.
09:35So he breaks away from Branham Tabernacle, from our sect of the message.
09:40Because, John, you know, everyone still kind of fellowshiped back in those days, in the later 60s.
09:44He breaks away very early on.
09:47I would say by 68, 69, he's broke away with this.
09:50And he's convinced a number of people in Indiana, in Ohio, in Kentucky, a little bit in Missouri,
09:58that they need to only meet in house churches.
10:03And so he develops the house church circuit, right, and has a little following there.
10:09But what he does, John, and this is where he gets really interesting.
10:12He develops the belief, and he gets this out of William Branham's Serpent Seed teachings.
10:17He develops the belief that it is a sin to continue to have marital relations.
10:23And he insists a blanket doctrine of celibacy across all of his followers, okay?
10:29Well, this was about 60 years ago, John.
10:32So as you can imagine, there's not many more of them left, right?
10:35They didn't reproduce like the other sects of the message.
10:38So they're pretty well a dead sect of the message today.
10:41But they all went.
10:43They became celibate.
10:44They didn't convert a lot more people in, and they eventually faded away.
10:47But that was a big deal, actually, him doing that back in the late 60s and early 70s.
10:53That was a really pretty big deal.
10:55And a significant number of people in this area followed him and went off into his house church,
11:01his celibate house church stuff.
11:03And probably the worst thing that happened, John, is when he started preaching the celibacy stuff,
11:08actually quite a few women and men separated and divorced each other
11:12because they accepted his belief that they needed to be celibate.
11:16So he actually broke up quite a few families with that teaching,
11:20which caused a pretty big pushback from the Branham Tabernacle from our church
11:25because they were upset that he was breaking up marriages.
11:28And obviously the people he were converting was the people in our churches.
11:32John, you're the Tabernacle Faith Assembly Fellowship.
11:35That was where he was drawing his converts from.
11:37So that's Estelle Beeler, ladies and gentlemen.
11:39You know, it's kind of funny because when I first began all of this,
11:42I had many people, including one of William Branham's son,
11:47who started proclaiming that the reason that John is coming out
11:52and sharing all of the critical flaws with the message and all of the failed prophecies
11:56was because I had a vendetta against my grandfather.
12:00And I loved my grandfather.
12:02I was a little surprised when they said that
12:04because many of the people who said that really didn't even know me,
12:08did not know my relationship with my grandfather.
12:11And I didn't realize at that time that it was just a cult strategy
12:15to try to persuade people not to listen to the critical flaws that I was exposing.
12:22But they came out and they said that I had this vendetta against my grandfather.
12:27But then whenever I got really, really deep into William Branham's life story
12:32and all of the history that he just blatantly lied about,
12:37including spiritual history,
12:38things that without those spiritual experiences he's describing,
12:42there is no message.
12:44When you take them away, there is no message.
12:47Once I got to that point, then they said,
12:49John has a vendetta against William Branham.
12:51He just hates William Branham.
12:53And he's working for the Catholic Church.
12:55That's really how it came to be.
12:57But, you know, in hindsight,
13:01William Branham, I kind of feel sorry for him.
13:04I think he had, I know he had mental health issues.
13:07He even mentioned it on recording
13:09that he suffered severely with mental health issues.
13:13And I have a passion for helping people that are like this.
13:17I have a passion.
13:19And I just, I feel really bad that this exists.
13:21This is a problem that I wish that the world could,
13:25the medical science could overcome.
13:26However, they did not.
13:28And William Branham had mental health issues.
13:31And the irony is, I really can't even blame him,
13:35but I can blame Estelle Beeler.
13:37Estelle Beeler, like you said,
13:39is the one who recruited my grandfather.
13:42And, you know, it's funny because they've,
13:45by and large, they've mostly disavowed Estelle Beeler
13:48and his weird ministry because of the weirdness you're describing.
13:52It wasn't until probably five years after I left the message
13:56that I even knew that he was the one that recruited my grandfather.
14:00My grandfather's own testimony,
14:03and you can, there are versions of this online,
14:05you can go hear it.
14:06He doesn't claim that he's recruited by Estelle Beeler.
14:09He claims that he just accidentally stumbled onto a meeting in Macon, Georgia.
14:14And how does that happen?
14:15How do you accidentally go from Indiana to Macon, Georgia?
14:19And I never really stopped and thought about it.
14:21What, why is he leaving out the most important part of this story?
14:25I stumbled onto this meeting in Macon, Georgia,
14:27and, oh, by the way, I was recruited into the message by Estelle Beeler.
14:31So, there are so many issues with these men covering all of these things up.
14:38But Estelle Beeler, like you said, was a nut, for lack of a better word.
14:45And what's also odd about this is, as I began to study the theology itself,
14:52and I'm not going to go deep into the theology, that's for other people,
14:56but I did study theology after I left.
14:58And I also studied both sides.
15:02I studied the good theology, and I studied reputable people
15:06who were talking about the bad theology and why it exists.
15:09Much of it can be traced all the way back to Gnosticism.
15:13And so, I wanted to know what this was.
15:15I started reading everything I could.
15:18In fact, I started reading one of the first things I read
15:21were the writings of Irenaeus,
15:23who William Branham said was one of the church-age messengers.
15:28And, you know, I'm reading through all of this,
15:32and he talks about the Gnostic groups, how they rose,
15:36how they adopted many pagan ideas, blended those pagan ideas with Christianity.
15:41And then he walks you through the various sects,
15:44kind of like we're doing, honestly.
15:46But he, one of the groups, he said,
15:49and they decided that it was a sin to have sex with one another,
15:53and therefore this group died out.
15:57And I was thinking about how odd that is,
15:59and I never really connected the two.
16:01At that point in time, I did not realize that Estelle Beeler
16:04was the one who recruited my grandfather.
16:06But it is a mess, and it is not Christianity.
16:10This is not how people behave as Christians.
16:13But here we have one of the fruits of the message.
16:17You made a really good point there, John,
16:19about how people cover up how they came into the message.
16:24Lots of people do this.
16:26And the reason they do is exactly what you were describing there, John.
16:30Every single person who is in the message today
16:37is in the message because someone in their background
16:41who was a thief, a criminal, a polygamist, a rapist,
16:45a homosexual, is the one who converted them in.
16:49There is nobody in the entire world who is in the message today
16:54who did not convert because of one of these nuts.
16:57That's the truth.
16:58If you subtract Ewald Frank, who we did episodes on,
17:02and Sidney Jackson, the polygamist we've talked about a lot,
17:05and Perry Green, the criminal we've talked about,
17:06if you subtract those three things,
17:08you don't have a message in Africa, John.
17:11It takes those three men to get the millions of people in Africa, right?
17:17This message spread because of people like this.
17:23And when you hear people say,
17:24Oh, these people don't matter.
17:26We can move on without them, right?
17:28That it's so, it's so,
17:31this sounds rude.
17:33It's ignorant, and it's really very ignorant-minded people
17:38to even think that way
17:39because they only are in the message because of those people.
17:44And they're so ignorant of their own history
17:45because people lied about who converted
17:47and who did this and that
17:48that they don't even are aware
17:50that this is the reason that they're in the message.
17:53But yes, John, I mean, your grandfather
17:55and the pastor of my church
17:57were both baptized
17:58and we could even say in some way converted in
18:01by Estelle Beeler
18:02who was an absolute nut.
18:06Yeah, absolutely.
18:08Right?
18:08And it goes even further back.
18:09And then, I mean,
18:11I loved Raymond Jackson just,
18:13you know, in a lot of ways,
18:14you loved your grandfather.
18:14But I mean, the truth is,
18:16Raymond Jackson was a nut too
18:17who did a lot of bad things.
18:18And I, and, you know,
18:20pardon me for saying anything bad
18:22about your grandfather,
18:23but your grandfather was a nut
18:24who did a whole bunch of bad stuff too
18:25who converted a bunch of people to the message.
18:27So it just, it passes on and on and on.
18:32Let's go to the next one.
18:33And I think this one, John,
18:34is an excellent contrast to the last one.
18:38So Estelle Beeler, his sect,
18:39came in and they went celibate.
18:41Well, the next sect we're going to talk about
18:43went polygamist,
18:44which gives you just,
18:46the message is the spectrum, right?
18:49All the way from celibacy to polygamy,
18:51you know, from,
18:52from no gifts of the spirit
18:53to the gifts have ceased
18:55to let's go crazy with the gifts.
18:56Like it's,
18:57every spectrum is in the message,
18:59ladies and gentlemen.
19:00So let's talk about
19:01the, the original polygamist sect of the message.
19:05So, and ladies and gentlemen,
19:07if you want more about these,
19:08I have more in the,
19:10my book on all of these
19:11than I'm going to be talking about here
19:12along with some different footnotes
19:13and stuff that you can reference for sources.
19:16And when I talk about J.T. Parnell
19:18and the polygamist, John,
19:20the hardest thing for me
19:22with these sort of groups are
19:24they have left behind so many victims.
19:28And, and I look at a lot of the,
19:29I look at a lot of the women as victims
19:31and the women's children as victims,
19:34J.T. Parnell's grand, you know, children.
19:36I look at a lot of these people as victims.
19:38And so, I'm very reluctant
19:41to say things that are going to put the victims
19:45in a hard spot, right?
19:47Because you know how it is in the message, John.
19:49I mean, they will harass the victims.
19:51They will, it will not be good.
19:53So, I mean, I try to approach these things
19:55in a way where we're not,
19:57I'm telling you the truth,
19:59but I'm also trying to not expose
20:01so many details that,
20:02that the victims become targets.
20:05Because they didn't ask, you know,
20:07they didn't ask for that.
20:07I mean, these kids didn't ask to be
20:09born into polygamist homes, you know.
20:11And, and these women that got into these things,
20:14a lot of them became tricked and then trapped.
20:16So, anyways, J.T. Parnell.
20:18So, who is J.T. Parnell?
20:19J.T. Parnell was the pastor of
20:22the Jerusalem Tabernacle in Edmonston, Kentucky.
20:26That's about, oh, maybe an hour drive
20:29from Jeffersonville.
20:31And his church was founded in 1958.
20:33It was one of the very first message churches.
20:35He was one of the original message churches, John.
20:37J.T. Parnell visited the Branham Tabernacle a lot.
20:41And just like Estelle Beeler,
20:42you'll find William Branham talking about
20:44J.T. Parnell on tape a lot.
20:46J.T. Parnell preached fairly regularly
20:48at the Branham Tabernacle.
20:49Very well known here
20:51in the Jeffersonville message community.
20:54So, I've also pointed out before
20:56that J.T. Parnell,
20:58one of his wives, plural,
21:01helped write the church age book.
21:03You know, typed up some of the initial manuscripts
21:05of that working with Lee Vale.
21:08So, anyways,
21:10Parnell, he had a pretty close relationship
21:12with William Branham.
21:13When William Branham died,
21:14he fell in with the
21:15pro-church order faction, John.
21:18So, he was like continuing to fellowship
21:19with your grandfather,
21:22the Branham Tabernacle,
21:23the Tucson Tabernacle.
21:24He was in that group at first,
21:26even though he was a polygamist.
21:28But his polygamy actually started,
21:31you know, according to
21:32lots of witnesses.
21:34I have some quotes in my book.
21:36He started practicing polygamy in 1965.
21:40He actually started recruiting
21:41the week after William Branham
21:43preached marriage and divorce.
21:44He started recruiting other people
21:46to come practice polygamy with him.
21:48It started while William Branham was alive.
21:50That's very important to notice and recognize.
21:54And it is not,
21:57I don't think,
21:58the least bit controversial
21:59to say this man's a polygamist.
22:00He had a harem.
22:01They traveled with him
22:03all over the place.
22:04He had a very obvious harem
22:06that he took with him
22:07from place to place.
22:08And it is just a well-known fact
22:10that the man was a polygamist.
22:11He was publicly excommunicated
22:13from a number of churches.
22:15He was publicly excommunicated
22:16for his polygamy
22:17from the Faith Assembly Fellowship.
22:19Your grandfather publicly excommunicated him
22:21from the Branham Tabernacle.
22:23And I want to say roughly 1973
22:26is when his excommunication
22:27from Branham Tabernacle happened.
22:29But he continued to have
22:31a good relationship
22:31with lots and lots of message preachers
22:33and still travel
22:35and still visit a lot
22:36of the international conventions
22:37even after his excommunication
22:39in the early 70s.
22:42So one other important thing
22:44about J.T. Parnell, John,
22:46is he, I had mentioned before,
22:48the reason the marriage and divorce tape
22:50is in circulation today
22:51is actually in large part
22:53due to J.T. Parnell.
22:55When the people started
22:58to confront him
22:59over the polygamy,
23:00when he was excommunicated
23:01from my sack,
23:02when your grandfather
23:03excommunicated him,
23:04he went to Perry Green
23:05and sought the release
23:07of the marriage and divorce tape,
23:08which Perry Green
23:09had a copy of.
23:10How Perry Green
23:11had a copy of it,
23:12I'm not exactly sure,
23:13but he did.
23:13And from Perry Green,
23:16the marriage and divorce tape
23:17was released
23:18so that J.T. Parnell
23:19could use that
23:20to try and justify
23:21the polygamy stuff, right?
23:25And again,
23:25you've got to put J.T.,
23:26you've got to put Perry Green
23:28into the mix there
23:32with releasing that out,
23:33you know,
23:34so people,
23:35and you could,
23:35Perry Green talks about this
23:36on tape, actually,
23:38when he was approached
23:38to release the tape,
23:39and Perry Green
23:40describes it more or less,
23:42he didn't really,
23:44and he's,
23:44it's so,
23:45this man's so dirty,
23:46he didn't really think
23:48that the prophet
23:48meant you could have polygamy,
23:50but he wanted to release
23:51the tape so people
23:52could hear for themselves,
23:53you know,
23:53make up their own mind
23:55kind of a thing,
23:56and he let out the tape.
23:58And so, anyways,
23:59obviously,
24:00William Brenham did,
24:02to the casual ear,
24:04endorse polygamy
24:05in that sermon,
24:06and the polygamists
24:07used that
24:08to great effect.
24:09J.T. Parnell
24:10recruited
24:11a fairly substantial
24:13number of churches
24:14and preachers,
24:15actually,
24:15into polygamy
24:16here in the United States,
24:17John.
24:17There were polygamous churches
24:19in Indiana,
24:21Kentucky,
24:22Ohio,
24:23North Carolina,
24:24South Carolina,
24:25West Virginia,
24:26Mississippi,
24:27Arkansas,
24:28and Missouri
24:29that I am aware of,
24:30okay?
24:30There are at least
24:3010 states
24:31that had churches
24:32affiliated with
24:33J.T. Parnell's
24:34sect of the message.
24:35Now,
24:35there's other polygamous groups
24:37I'm aware of
24:37in the message
24:38in North America,
24:39besides J.T. Parnell,
24:41but I'm aware for sure
24:42those 10 states
24:43have churches
24:44that came out
24:47of his sect
24:48of the message
24:48that all practice polygamy.
24:50And if I had to guess,
24:51there were maybe,
24:53in those 10 churches,
24:54there were maybe
24:55500-ish
24:56practicing polygamists
24:59in those churches
25:00that came out
25:02of J.T. Parnell
25:03and his practices.
25:04Some of them
25:05have been in the news.
25:07One notable church
25:08is Dan Gallimore's church
25:09in Martinsville,
25:11Virginia.
25:13His church
25:13was in the news.
25:14He actually married
25:15a minor,
25:15which is what got him
25:17in the news.
25:18I think he took a minor
25:19as a second or third wife,
25:20I believe.
25:23And, yeah,
25:24it is,
25:25it's very unfortunate,
25:28this sect of the message.
25:29And there are still
25:31remnants of this sect
25:33of the message
25:34around today.
25:34And I will go as far
25:35as to say, too, John,
25:36that I am aware
25:37of practicing polygamists
25:38that are still
25:39in the Jeffersonville
25:39message community
25:40to this very day.
25:42You know what's really odd
25:43about the ones
25:44who were denying
25:45that William Branham
25:46said these things?
25:48People who were
25:49in the inner circle
25:49of William Branham
25:51knew that he struggled
25:52with mental health problems,
25:54especially people
25:55like Gordon Lindsay,
25:57who watched
25:57William Branham
25:58suddenly disappear
25:59from the scene
26:00because he's in the midst
26:01of a mental health crisis.
26:04And Gordon Lindsay,
26:04as you know,
26:05started bringing
26:05in other evangelists
26:07to try to keep
26:08the Voice of Healing
26:10revivals
26:10and Voice of Healing
26:12publication running
26:13while Branham's
26:14off the scene.
26:15He's nearly incapacitated
26:17with mental health.
26:19But then,
26:20in the later years,
26:21William Branham
26:22spouted off
26:22some of the weirdest,
26:24strangest things.
26:25And he did not
26:26just do it
26:27on the recordings.
26:28He did it also
26:29in private.
26:30You can hear
26:30the private testimonies
26:31of people
26:32who were saying
26:33that they spent time
26:35with William Branham
26:35and he had this
26:36very, very special
26:38thing that he said.
26:40And when you hear it,
26:41you're scratching your head
26:42thinking,
26:42what on earth
26:43was he actually saying there?
26:45It sounds so crazy.
26:47Like,
26:47I don't know
26:48if you remember,
26:49there's this guy
26:49that traveled around
26:51from church to church
26:53talking about
26:53William Branham's
26:54pyramid vision.
26:56How off-recording
26:58William Branham
26:58claimed that
26:59all of our houses,
27:01whenever we get to heaven,
27:02won't be houses
27:03like we have today.
27:04They're going to be
27:05little rooms
27:05in this great,
27:06giant pyramid.
27:07And at the top
27:08of the pyramid
27:08is where Jesus Christ lives.
27:10But you can't go up
27:11to the top
27:12very easily.
27:13He's up there.
27:14We're down here.
27:15I don't know
27:15if you heard this,
27:16but as a kid,
27:17you know,
27:18part of me wanted
27:19to believe it
27:19because I'm sitting
27:21in a room
27:21filled with adults
27:22who are listening
27:23to this guy
27:23talk this nonsense
27:24and they're all
27:27eating it up,
27:28believing it.
27:29And so I'm like,
27:29I'm looking around
27:30the room thinking,
27:31well,
27:31wait,
27:31am I really supposed
27:32to believe this?
27:33This sounds a little crazy.
27:35But those are the kind
27:36of crazy things
27:36that William Branham
27:37said off recording.
27:38We have witnesses
27:39that will attest
27:41to the weird things
27:42that William Branham said.
27:43So these guys knew
27:44that William Branham
27:45was a nut job.
27:47Many of them
27:47who were in the inner circle,
27:48they knew it.
27:49But whenever he went
27:51off the rails
27:51and the recording leaks out,
27:54they all deny
27:55that he said these things.
27:57And some of the things
27:58that he said off record
28:00and even in the case
28:01of marriage and divorce
28:02where he's talking
28:03about polygamy
28:04supporting it
28:04on the record,
28:06he also had other places
28:08where on the record
28:09he rejected polygamy.
28:11So the nut job
28:12could not contain himself
28:14and he's putting
28:15these things on recording
28:16and the recording leaked out.
28:18And like you said,
28:19this is how polygamy
28:20just became widespread
28:21in the message.
28:22But the fact that
28:24the elders and leaders
28:25of the cult knew it
28:27and then denied it,
28:29it places every one
28:31of those ministers
28:32and evangelists
28:33for the message.
28:34It places their character
28:36in question,
28:37which again goes back to,
28:39like I said,
28:39the fruit of the message.
28:41Have you ever wondered
28:43how the Pentecostal movement
28:44started
28:45or how the progression
28:46of modern Pentecostalism
28:48transitioned
28:49through the latter reign,
28:50charismatic,
28:51and other fringe movements
28:52into the new
28:53apostolic reformation?
28:55You can learn this and more
28:57on William Branham
28:58Historical Research's website,
29:00william-branham.org.
29:02On the books page
29:03of the website,
29:04you can find
29:05the compiled research
29:06of John Collins,
29:07Charles Paisley,
29:09Stephen Montgomery,
29:10John McKinnon,
29:11and others,
29:11with links to the paper,
29:13audio,
29:14and digital versions
29:15of each book.
29:17You can also find
29:18resources and documentation
29:19on various people
29:20and topics
29:21related to those movements.
29:23If you want to contribute
29:24to the cause,
29:25you can support the podcast
29:27by clicking
29:27the Contribute button
29:29at the top.
29:29And as always,
29:30be sure to like
29:32and subscribe
29:32to the audio
29:33or video version
29:34that you're listening to
29:35or watching.
29:36On behalf of
29:37William Branham
29:37Historical Research,
29:39we want to thank you
29:40for your support.
29:40The next one
29:42I want to talk about
29:42is Paul Azir Lowry.
29:45Now, this one,
29:46we can spend just
29:47a little more time
29:47talking about this one
29:48than the first two.
29:50So, Paul Azir Lowry,
29:52who is he?
29:53Paul Azir Lowry
29:53was a man
29:54we've mentioned
29:55a number of times.
29:55He was an Indian
29:57from India.
29:59He met
30:01William Branham
30:02during his
30:03India tour,
30:04which was a flop
30:05in the 1950s.
30:08He ended up
30:08following William Branham
30:10back here
30:10to Jeffersonville
30:11like so many
30:12other people did.
30:14And he
30:14attended in
30:15Jeffersonville.
30:16He was baptized.
30:18I believe
30:19Orman Neville
30:19baptized him.
30:20He came after
30:21Orman Neville
30:21had become pastor.
30:23Orman Neville
30:24baptized him.
30:25He
30:25followed William Branham
30:28around a bit
30:28as part of his entourage.
30:30When everyone
30:30moved to Arizona
30:31from the
30:32Deedee cult
30:33and so forth
30:34in the early
30:36part of 1963,
30:38he followed
30:39and he also
30:39went to Arizona,
30:40John.
30:40He lived out
30:41there in the
30:42Tucson.
30:43He was actually
30:43in the Prescott
30:44commune of Leo
30:46and Jean Mercer
30:46for a while.
30:48And I consider
30:49Paul Azir Lowry
30:51actually to be a
30:51breakaway from
30:52the Deedee cult,
30:53John.
30:54If you think of
30:55the main sect,
30:56the main sect
30:56has these various
30:58factions within it.
30:59One of those
31:00factions is the
31:01tape churches.
31:02Then within the
31:03tape churches,
31:03there's another
31:04sub-faction,
31:05the Deedee cult.
31:05The Deedee cult
31:06is in there.
31:07Well, he was
31:07within that
31:08Deedee cult
31:09faction.
31:11And the way
31:13I do that is
31:13I do that by
31:14observing their
31:14beliefs,
31:15what he teaches.
31:16He's actually
31:16teaching pretty
31:17close to the
31:18original Deedee
31:19beliefs,
31:19but he's
31:19evolved them
31:20to point to
31:20himself
31:21after his
31:24death.
31:24Or after the
31:25death of
31:25William Branham.
31:27So what
31:27happens,
31:28John?
31:28I have a
31:29this is
31:30I should hold
31:31some more
31:31of these
31:31up.
31:32I have
31:32a track.
31:32This is
31:33one of
31:33Paul Azir
31:34Lowey's
31:34tracks.
31:35I have
31:36tracks from
31:36a lot of
31:37these guys,
31:37John.
31:38You know,
31:38just great
31:39stuff.
31:40You know,
31:41some of
31:42the stuff
31:42is very
31:43entertaining
31:43to read.
31:46Here's one
31:47of my
31:47favorites.
31:48Masters of
31:49Legalized
31:49Confusion
31:49and Their
31:50Puppets.
31:50This is a
31:51great read,
31:52John.
31:52I mean,
31:52I just
31:52gotta see.
31:53Masters of
31:54the Legalized
31:54Confusion
31:55and Their
31:56Puppets.
31:56I gotta
31:57recommend this
31:57to anybody
31:58who likes
31:58to read
31:59message literature.
32:00But anyways,
32:01Paul Azir
32:02Lowry has
32:03this here
32:03track right
32:05here.
32:05This is
32:05called
32:05Son of
32:06Man.
32:07And this
32:07is this.
32:08I have
32:08this.
32:09And I have
32:09a number of
32:09newspaper articles
32:10about him
32:11as well
32:11that I could
32:13share.
32:14But maybe
32:14we can put a
32:15few of them
32:15up here on
32:15the screen
32:16as I talk
32:17about him.
32:18So Paul Azir
32:19Lowry,
32:20as William
32:20Branham
32:21died,
32:22he went
32:23back to
32:23India.
32:25And then
32:26he just
32:27got his
32:27mission stuff
32:28kind of
32:28started in
32:29India,
32:29really the
32:30first message
32:30mission work
32:31in India.
32:32And then
32:32William
32:32Branham
32:33dies and
32:33he comes
32:34back to
32:34the United
32:34States.
32:36Well,
32:36after that,
32:38Lowry starts
32:40getting crazier
32:40and crazier
32:41and crazier.
32:42Now,
32:42at first,
32:43he's pretty
32:44tight with
32:44the main
32:45sect of the
32:45message,
32:45the Deedee
32:46cult people
32:46as well.
32:48And he's
32:48pretty tight
32:48with Ewald
32:49Frank.
32:49There's
32:50pictures of
32:50him visiting
32:51Crefield Free
32:51Mission.
32:52He actually
32:53met Archie
32:54Martin,
32:55the missionary
32:56working in
32:57Brazil,
32:57and they
32:58actually made
32:58a tour
32:59together at
32:59one point
33:00as well.
33:01And so
33:01Paul Azir
33:01Lowry,
33:02Archie
33:02Martin,
33:03Ewald
33:03Frank,
33:04all these
33:04guys are
33:04kind of
33:05in this
33:05mission
33:06network
33:06that is
33:07taking
33:07the
33:08message
33:08overseas.
33:10And
33:10as that
33:12happens,
33:13he establishes
33:14a number
33:14of churches
33:15in India.
33:16And this
33:16book actually,
33:17John,
33:17he claims
33:18to have
33:19established
33:1925 churches.
33:21There's a
33:22list of
33:22the names
33:22of the
33:2325 churches
33:23here that
33:24he has
33:24established.
33:25So in
33:261969,
33:27John,
33:28while Lowry
33:29was in
33:29the United
33:30States
33:30touring
33:31and basically
33:33collecting funds,
33:34doing them,
33:34like,
33:35what they
33:36would do
33:36is they
33:36would,
33:37the missionaries
33:37would come
33:38back and
33:38they would
33:38travel the
33:39circuit and
33:40they would
33:40get donations
33:40to take back
33:41to fund their
33:42mission operations.
33:43That's what he
33:43was doing.
33:44So he
33:44was coming
33:44around the
33:45mission circuit
33:45in the
33:46United
33:46States,
33:47collecting
33:47money,
33:48then going
33:48back to
33:48India to
33:49help spread
33:50the message
33:50in India.
33:51While he
33:52is in
33:52Chicago that
33:53year,
33:53it's 1969,
33:55the moon
33:55landing happens.
33:57And John,
33:57this is,
33:58as you and I
33:58know,
33:59one of the
33:59most bizarre
34:00of all
34:00message stories.
34:01So while
34:02Paul Azir
34:03Lowry is
34:04watching the
34:04moon landing
34:05on television,
34:07you know,
34:08Neil Armstrong
34:09gets out of
34:10the spaceship,
34:10he steps on
34:11the moon,
34:11and he
34:12says this
34:12is one
34:13small step
34:13for man,
34:14one giant
34:15leap for
34:16mankind.
34:17As Paul Azir
34:18Lowry watched
34:19that on
34:21television,
34:22he said at
34:22that moment,
34:24he became the
34:24next manifested
34:25son of God.
34:27Jesus Christ
34:27returned in
34:28him at that
34:30exact same
34:31moment that
34:32Neil Armstrong
34:33stepped onto
34:33the moon.
34:34and he
34:36began saying
34:37this as he
34:39continues his
34:40travel around
34:42the North
34:42American message
34:43circuit,
34:44John.
34:45And of
34:45course,
34:46almost everybody
34:47thinks,
34:48Paul Azir
34:48Lowry,
34:49you are a
34:49nut job.
34:50And so he
34:51never gets to
34:52come back again
34:53after that.
34:54He basically,
34:55everyone thought
34:56he was a nut
34:56at that point
34:57because William
34:58Branham was,
34:59you know,
34:59was the prophet
35:00and he's trying
35:01to step into
35:01his shoes.
35:02But John,
35:04he actually
35:05successfully
35:05convinces a
35:06number of
35:07families.
35:07I want to
35:08say somewhere
35:08in the
35:08neighborhood
35:08of 75
35:09people in
35:11the United
35:11States and
35:12Canada actually
35:13believe his
35:14claims.
35:15And as he's
35:15doing this,
35:16he's telling
35:16them the
35:17rapture is
35:17going to
35:17happen in
35:181972.
35:19Jesus Christ
35:20has returned
35:20in him.
35:21It starts
35:22his three and
35:23a half year
35:23countdown,
35:24basically.
35:25And now the
35:26rapture is
35:26going to come
35:27in 1972.
35:29And so come
35:30follow me to
35:30India because you
35:31can only make
35:31it in the
35:32rapture if
35:32you're with
35:32me in
35:33India.
35:33So anyways,
35:34some of
35:34these people
35:34from North
35:35America,
35:35a few from
35:36Europe also,
35:37go back with
35:38him to
35:38India along
35:39with his
35:39larger Indian
35:40following and
35:42wait for the
35:43rapture in
35:441972.
35:46Now,
35:47Paul is your
35:47Lowry sector
35:48of the message
35:49has a few
35:49unique features.
35:51One of them
35:52is, I mean,
35:53they full-on
35:54believe the
35:54deity cult stuff,
35:55John.
35:55They baptize
35:56and they pray
35:57in the name
35:58of the Lord
35:59Branham Christ.
36:00And they do
36:00it very openly.
36:02A lot of
36:03the deity cult
36:04here in
36:04North America,
36:05it's more
36:06secretive,
36:07right?
36:07It's only a
36:09lot of the
36:10people in the
36:10deity cult have
36:11enough sense
36:11to know this
36:13is crazy
36:13sounding.
36:15And William
36:16Branham said
36:17not to do
36:19this stuff
36:19publicly and
36:20they keep it
36:21quiet and it's
36:22private for the
36:23most part among
36:23the deity cult in
36:24North America.
36:24But a few
36:25radical nuts
36:27that have
36:28been indoctrinated
36:30in the deity cult
36:31take it public.
36:32And that's what
36:32Paul Azir Lowry
36:33was doing.
36:34He was taking
36:34public the
36:35already private
36:36beliefs of
36:37members of the
36:38deity cult.
36:38He learned this.
36:39He was out in
36:40Gene and Leo's
36:41commune with
36:41them, with
36:42Fred Soffman
36:42and some other
36:43people.
36:43That's where he
36:44learned this stuff.
36:45And so he's
36:46just taken that
36:47publicly.
36:48And
36:49anyway, he's
36:51got the deity
36:52cult beliefs.
36:53They baptize and
36:53pray in the name
36:54of the Lord
36:54Branham Christ.
36:56And he does
36:58this unusual
36:58thing where he
36:59blends, he's
37:01blending the
37:04message with
37:06Hindu mysticism,
37:08John.
37:09And if you
37:11remember, William
37:12Branham preached
37:13about, at times,
37:14he talked about
37:14the seven
37:15dimensions and
37:16the dimensions
37:17were like higher
37:18levels, bringing
37:19you closer to
37:20God.
37:21And the way
37:21that William
37:21Branham actually
37:22described those
37:23seven levels,
37:24seven dimensions,
37:25is actually the
37:26same way that
37:27is believed in
37:28Hindi mysticism.
37:30Like he
37:30described the
37:31top level is
37:34the cosmic
37:34light where
37:35you're with
37:36God, the
37:36lower levels is
37:37like where the
37:38ascended saints
37:38are.
37:39He described it
37:40in the exact
37:40same way that
37:41a Hindu guru
37:42would describe
37:43those seven
37:44layers, except
37:45instead of
37:46meeting
37:47the Hindu
37:49God in the
37:49top layer,
37:50you're meeting
37:50the Christian
37:51God, and
37:52instead of
37:53gurus at
37:54the layer
37:54below, it's
37:55saints, right?
37:56So he just
37:56kind of changed
37:57up the words
37:57to better
37:59match Christian
38:00thinking.
38:02Well, what's
38:03interesting, John,
38:04is William
38:04Branham actually
38:05started preaching
38:06that at the
38:07same time
38:08Paul Azir
38:09Lowry showed
38:09up here in
38:10the United
38:10States.
38:11And so,
38:12it's a little
38:13bit of a
38:13speculation, but
38:14I would say
38:15probably Paul
38:17Azir Lowry is
38:18the one who
38:18planted those
38:19ideas in
38:19William Branham's
38:20mind, and
38:21that's where
38:23they came from.
38:23Well, anyways,
38:24Paul Azir
38:24Lowry, as
38:26he's going
38:26back and
38:27being in
38:27India, he
38:28takes that
38:29seven-dimension
38:29thing, and
38:31that becomes a
38:31really big, a
38:33really important
38:34component of his
38:36overall teachings.
38:37And he's just
38:38increasingly blending
38:40William Branham's
38:41teachings with
38:42Hindi mysticism,
38:43and it's all
38:44about how to
38:44transcend up to
38:46the higher level
38:47and reach the
38:48seventh dimension
38:48where you can be
38:50in the presence
38:50of God.
38:52And so, that's
38:54what he's doing.
38:55Obviously, 1972
38:56comes and goes,
38:57the rapture don't
38:57happen, then he
38:58changes it to the
38:59raptures in 1977,
39:00which comes and
39:01goes and nothing
39:02happens, and his
39:03following exploded
39:04coming out in
39:051977, broke up
39:07into various other
39:08factions.
39:09They began to
39:09reach out to my
39:10sect of the
39:11message, to your
39:11sect of the
39:12message, John.
39:12They began to
39:13pull in missionaries
39:14from North America
39:15and Europe, and
39:16that is really how
39:17the message launched
39:19in India, and all
39:21the sects got
39:21invited into India
39:25as his group
39:25imploded in the
39:27late 70s.
39:28You said something
39:29there that I want
39:30to go back and
39:30emphasize, because I
39:31don't think many
39:32people realize this,
39:34especially if you're
39:35indoctrinated in the
39:37message.
39:37When you're
39:38indoctrinated in the
39:39message, you think
39:39that all of these
39:41ideas, these
39:42doctrines, these
39:43prophecies, all of
39:44these things that
39:45William Branham was
39:46saying from his
39:47public stage persona
39:48came from William
39:49Branham, because he's
39:51the divine messenger
39:52from God.
39:53That's how you're
39:53trained and
39:54manipulated in the
39:55message.
39:56And if you're
39:57outside of the
39:57message looking in,
39:58you think, well,
39:59here's this nut
40:00job who's claiming
40:01to be a prophet, a
40:02self-proclaimed
40:03prophet, and he's
40:04coming up with all
40:05this nonsense.
40:05But no, that's
40:07not the case, man.
40:08William Branham's
40:09ministry was largely
40:11influenced by the men
40:13and women around him.
40:15And you can find clear
40:16evidence of this if you
40:17just simply read through
40:18the Voice of Healing
40:19magazines.
40:21Read in chronological
40:22order and watch the
40:24things being presented
40:25by other men and then
40:27watch them enter into
40:28William Branham's
40:28ministry.
40:29A clear example of this
40:31is the UFO theology.
40:33Read Voice of Healing,
40:34and you can even see
40:36the covers on the
40:36magazines.
40:37As soon as there's
40:38UFO phenomenon resurging,
40:42I can't remember what
40:43year it is.
40:43It's like the mid-50s.
40:45As that's resurging and
40:47all the ministers are
40:47saying, look, in the
40:49skies, we see the God.
40:51This is not a UFO.
40:52This is not an alien
40:53spaceship like they
40:54claim.
40:55These are angels or
40:56watchers or whatever
40:57they claimed.
40:58And then you watch
40:59William Branham start to
41:00repeat what he's
41:01saying.
41:02And he, that's how
41:03ironically,
41:04he come up with his
41:06UFO theology where a
41:07UFO is going to swoop
41:08down and take us to the
41:10rapture.
41:10That was one of his,
41:11that was one of his
41:12weird, just crazy
41:14doctrinal beliefs.
41:15And he's not saying
41:17that because, well, he
41:18is saying it because he's
41:19a little bit mentally
41:20unstable, but not simply
41:22because he's mentally
41:23unstable.
41:23He's working with other
41:25mentally unstable men who
41:27are influencing him.
41:28And now, whenever you think
41:30about the tree and the
41:31fruit that it bears, now
41:33disconnect all of the
41:35famous people that were
41:36connected to Branham that
41:37some of them started cults,
41:39some of them did not turn
41:41out that bad.
41:42But just think about the
41:44nutjobs that were coming
41:46out of William Branham's
41:47ministry.
41:47Now think about them
41:49influencing Branham as
41:51he's influencing the
41:53splinter groups.
41:54You had this, you had this
41:55vicious cycle.
41:56So the tree that's
41:57bearing fruit, it's like
41:58it's grafting itself with
42:00the bad fruit so that the
42:02main trunk gets worse and
42:03worse over time.
42:05I agree.
42:06And one of the notable
42:09features of many sects of
42:12the message is that the
42:16greatest thing a message
42:19preacher can do is to
42:21have a revelation.
42:23I have a revelation.
42:24I now can tell you
42:26something from the Bible
42:27that nobody ever knew
42:28before.
42:28It was a hidden mystery.
42:30It's been revealed to me
42:30as a revelation and now I
42:32can share it to you.
42:34And in order to, you know,
42:36for someone to be able to
42:37do that, to have a unique
42:39teaching that they can say
42:41was a unique revelation to
42:42them that they then shared
42:44and was accepted, it is a
42:46great source of pride to the
42:49average message preacher to
42:50be able to do that.
42:51I mean, you're probably aware
42:53of some of these things,
42:54John.
42:54Like, for a preacher in the
42:56message to be able to get a
42:58group of people to accept
42:59some unique new thing that
43:01God revealed to him is the
43:03height of accomplishment for
43:07the message preacher.
43:08Okay?
43:09And so, there is this natural
43:10inclination of message
43:13preachers to try and find some
43:15unique niche idea, concept, and
43:20they'll call it a revelation
43:21and get people to accept that
43:24niche new thing.
43:25Okay?
43:26And so, that is going on
43:28constantly in the message.
43:30And if you can convince other
43:34people to believe it, right,
43:35there's like this risk zone,
43:37right?
43:38There's a danger zone.
43:39The preacher's got his new
43:40idea and it's make or break.
43:43It's really his big break if he
43:45can get people to accept it.
43:47But it's also the incredible
43:49dangerous risk because if they
43:50reject it, then it's going to
43:52cause a schism and everything's
43:53going to go sideways.
43:55And so, it's this danger zone
43:56when these new revelations come.
43:59And a lot of the way that the
44:00preachers will do it, John, is
44:02before they will preach their new
44:04revelation, they will talk to
44:07some other preachers and kind of
44:09spitball it behind the scenes.
44:12And what do you think about this?
44:13And more or less feel out the
44:15other preachers.
44:15Am I going to get whacked in the
44:17head if I preach this?
44:18That's what's going on.
44:20Am I going to get thrown out of
44:21here if I preach this?
44:22And so, this is happening with
44:25William Branham all the way.
44:26This has been going on all
44:27along.
44:28Yeah.
44:29Paul Azir Lowry wants to preach
44:30the seven-dimension nonsense.
44:32He's whispering in William
44:34Branham's ear, what do you think
44:35about my seven-dimension
44:36nonsense, William Branham?
44:37Oh, I like that.
44:38I like it so much, I'm going to
44:39preach it next Sunday.
44:40That is the sort of stuff that
44:42happens in the message, okay?
44:44And then Paul Azir Lowry can
44:46go preach it.
44:46But this is very commonplace
44:48in the message.
44:51Yeah, that's the problem
44:52exactly.
44:52And, you know, if you're a
44:54Christian, I know we have people
44:56listening who aren't, but if you
44:57are a Christian and you think
44:58about the false god that this is
45:01presenting, and especially if you
45:03consider the deity cult and how
45:05the deity cult is coming into play
45:07here, you have men who are
45:09worshiping Branham.
45:10Branham knows it.
45:11He admits it on recording that he
45:12knows it.
45:13He somewhat publicly condemns it,
45:16but then, as we've mentioned, the
45:18people, the very people who are
45:20believing him to be God, he's
45:22appointing to power and leadership
45:24positions in the cult.
45:26So, as they start to come into the
45:29picture, and the cycle begins where
45:31the splinter groups are influencing
45:33the main sect, they're influencing
45:35Branham directly.
45:36So, the God complex, I guess you
45:39would call it, goes to William
45:41Branham's head over time, and this
45:42turns into this big theological
45:45mess.
45:46I agree.
45:47Let me move on to our next group to
45:49talk about.
45:49So, this group is called, often
45:51referred to as the Third Testament
45:53group, and their leader is a man
45:56named Donald Parnell.
45:58No relation to J.T.
45:59Parnell, as best I know.
46:00This is another Parnell family.
46:03So, this group would also be
46:05considered a breakaway of the deity
46:07cult, John.
46:07And, Donald Parnell was a man, when
46:10you listen to him talk, spent a fair
46:13amount of time with Fred Sothman and
46:15with Alfred Erickson, who are two
46:17very notable men from the Branham
46:20deity cult, the main deity cult that
46:22controlled the central institutions of
46:24the message.
46:25And, a lot of the ideas he shares and
46:28preaches are straight up the deity
46:32beliefs of the main branch of the
46:34deity cult.
46:34However, what he did is he, he kind of
46:39adjusted them a little bit, John.
46:41And, here's how he adjusted them.
46:42In the main sect of the message, the
46:44deity cult that is embedded in the
46:45main sect believes that after William
46:48Branham, the next manifested son of
46:50God is Joseph, his son.
46:53Right?
46:53Like, that's how it is looked at in the
46:54main sect.
46:55Um, Joseph is now the, their object of
47:01worship.
47:02Well, Donald Parnell said, no, no, no, no, no,
47:05no, no.
47:05It's me.
47:06It's me, Donald Parnell.
47:08And so, and so naturally, he schismed with
47:12the deity cult.
47:13Okay?
47:14And so, anyways, he's teaching basically the
47:16same beliefs of the deity cult, except he's
47:18redirected it to now.
47:19He is, he is the successor of William
47:23Branham, and he actually plainly teaches
47:25he's the third incarnation of Jesus
47:28Christ, and he claims that Jesus came
47:30back into him in 2005, actually, is the
47:33date on which he claims to have become
47:36this incarnation.
47:37My, my book on message history, I only go
47:38up to 2005, so I felt like I had to kind
47:41of add him in here.
47:42Uh, but for, for most of his message
47:45career, he was just, I would consider him
47:47just a rank-and-file deity cult member
47:49John, until he got the idea that he
47:52himself had become, um, he had become a
47:56manifested son of God.
47:58Now, his group is called the Third
47:59Testament, because they believe you have
48:02the Old Testament, right?
48:04You have the New Testament, and William
48:07Branham's sermons now form the Third
48:09Testament.
48:10So, the, the, the first covenant is
48:13expired, the Jesus Christ and the
48:16Apostle Covenant is expired, and now
48:18they're living under the covenant, which
48:19William Branham taught as the second
48:21coming, and now here's Donald Parnell as
48:24the third coming.
48:25Um, so, it's a very bizarre sect of the
48:28message, John.
48:29Um, they believe that the rapture occurred
48:32roughly in 1963, and that they've been in
48:35the millennial age since 1963, and that
48:38because we're now in the millennial age,
48:41anybody can ascend to become a manifested
48:44son of God and become a theophany, is how
48:46they would term it.
48:47I'll be honest, I've only listened to about
48:49a dozen of J, of Donald Parnell sermons,
48:51John.
48:52They're crazy.
48:52They're wacko.
48:54Uh, but he basically says that everybody
48:56can become a theophany.
48:58Let me, let me read you a quote from, from
49:00Donald Parnell.
49:01He says, you need to listen to your
49:03theophany.
49:04Walk in your theophany.
49:06Guide yourself in your theophany.
49:09Imagine yourself in your theophany.
49:11Wrap yourself around your theophany.
49:14And a lot of his teachings are focused on
49:17people elevating themselves to the
49:19manifested son of God level, which in
49:21his terminology is often the term
49:22theophany.
49:24Um, yeah, he's, so as far as people in
49:27his group, I mean, there's a few churches
49:29and several hundred people that follow
49:31his teachings.
49:32Um, they're primarily in North America.
49:35Um, I believe he has followers in Ohio,
49:37Indiana, Kentucky, and Michigan.
49:39So another notable regional sect of the
49:43message.
49:44One of the other weird things that he
49:46taught was that we're now living in the
49:48millennial age because I think I gave this
49:52story in one of the episodes that we did
49:55early on.
49:56But after I'd left the message, I was in
49:58the post office and I kept running into
50:01people who were in the message and they, I
50:05hate to say it, but they acted very, very
50:07childish.
50:08They would look at me and scorn and walk
50:10away or, uh, I have these mental images
50:14of them sticking their tongue out at me
50:16as they're leaving me, but they, they
50:18basically just gave me the stink eye and
50:20then left.
50:21But then this one guy in the post office, he
50:24watched me walk in and he turned around
50:26and he shook my hand and he smiled and he
50:28said, you're John Collins, aren't you?
50:29And I knew him.
50:30I knew he was in the message.
50:31And, um, I expected he was going to give
50:34me some wild insult like the rest of the
50:36church, but he looked at me and he said,
50:38you're John Collins.
50:39I said, yeah.
50:39He said, I know what you're doing is, uh,
50:43you know, against William Branham.
50:44And I just wanted to say, you know, I'm
50:47not going to condemn you for that.
50:48And I was a little surprised.
50:50And he says, it really doesn't matter what
50:51you do.
50:52And I said, really?
50:53He said, we're living in the millennial
50:55age.
50:56Jesus Christ has come and gone.
50:57I was at the, I was in the meetings at
50:59Shreveport and I watched Jesus Christ
51:01come down on the platform in the name of
51:04William Branham as William Branham.
51:06And I looked at him and I scratched my
51:08head and he said, it doesn't matter what
51:10you do.
51:10You can condemn William Branham if you
51:12want.
51:12You can go sleep with all kinds of
51:13prostitutes and other women if you want,
51:15because it doesn't matter.
51:16We're living in the, this guy literally
51:18said this.
51:19This is a man who's claiming to be, well,
51:22he uses the word Christian.
51:23I wouldn't use, I wouldn't use the same
51:25word, but he's telling me that I can go
51:27live the life of sin like some, just some
51:33guy off the street.
51:34And it doesn't matter because we're
51:35living in the millennial age.
51:36And that's the fruit of this message.
51:38Whenever they're saying that they're
51:40Christian or they're using the words
51:41Jesus, some of the bad apples and from
51:45the, from the main drunk of the tree,
51:47some of the bad apples don't even have a
51:50concept of what Christianity is.
51:53I agree, John.
51:54I mean, it is, you know, by the time you
51:56get into these groups that really
51:58deeply believe that the second coming
51:59already happened, like most of the
52:01message believes some sort of a second
52:05coming of Christ spiritually happened in
52:08the ministry of William Branham.
52:10But the ones who like, there's like a
52:13line, I don't, I don't know how to
52:14describe this for outsiders.
52:16Okay.
52:17There, there's a group who they believe,
52:19yeah, it's spiritually happened and
52:20somehow it's all still in progress and
52:22Jesus is still going to come back bodily
52:24and then there's going to be a heavenly
52:26age.
52:27There's that group.
52:28But then there's others who, they don't
52:30believe that anymore.
52:30They, yeah, Jesus came and this is it.
52:33This is it, ladies and gentlemen.
52:34Let's, you know, let, and it's crazy.
52:38Those are the craziest ones.
52:39Like you, that's really, I mean, they're
52:42living in the millennial age and now they
52:44need to get their rapturous glorified
52:47bodies and they do crazy, bizarre things to
52:50go get that.
52:51Yeah, that is, it's hard to even relate
52:55that to authentic Christianity because of
52:58the things that have, that have happened.
53:00And, and some of them are so crazy and
53:02they're so prone to extremism, John.
53:05I mean, just absolute extremism.
53:07You, you listen to some of these people.
53:08Some of these people we've mentioned, you
53:10can go on YouTube and you can look at
53:11your sermons and you can listen in for
53:13yourself, you know, and hear the stuff
53:17that they're saying.
53:17And some of it is, it's incredibly bizarre.
53:20Like I said at the beginning of this
53:21episode, that one passage of scripture
53:25talking about beware of false prophets
53:28and going on to say, you will know them
53:30by their fruits.
53:31This is the fruit of the message.
53:33You have people that believe everything
53:35from abstaining from sex and do not
53:38produce children to have as many wives
53:41as you want.
53:42And, oh, by the way, you can, you can
53:44sleep around with whoever you want.
53:45That's, that's the extremes of this
53:47message.
53:48And those, you know, I don't care who
53:50you are.
53:50If you're in the message and you say,
53:52well, this is just a bad apple.
53:53Don't listen to those.
53:54Those, those people don't represent the
53:56true message.
53:56You have to understand that many of those
53:59people who have these weird, wacky
54:01ideas were actually influencing Branham
54:03and their influences made it into the
54:06message.
54:07So the tree was turning, the tree was
54:09turning rotten from the inside as it was
54:12growing.
54:13That's how bad this is.
54:14You know, we didn't make it through all
54:16these, um, smaller sects of the message.
54:18So we're going to have to come back, uh,
54:20next time, uh, and, and knock out some
54:22more.
54:22We've got at least one more substantial
54:24smaller sect of the message I want to
54:26talk about.
54:26Maybe two, um, well, actually three
54:29daggone it.
54:30I'm looking here, John, I got five more
54:32in here.
54:32I, there's more in here than I thought.
54:33So I think we've got enough to fill
54:35another episode pretty easily.
54:37I don't know how you stop it at five, man.
54:39There, there's no telling how many
54:41hundreds, if not thousands of these
54:42things that there are, I was working
54:44with a couple of people in another
54:46country and they, there were just
54:48literally two men had started a message
54:50sec that was a splinter group off of
54:53one of the branches that we've
54:54mentioned.
54:55And they started gathering a following
54:57and they turned into this weird
54:58destructive cult.
54:59And, you know, uh, like all of these
55:03other bad apples that we're talking
55:05about, the main sect, and I mean, even
55:07some of the, the sects of the message
55:11that are closer to the main disavowed
55:13them and said, the, these guys are
55:14just nut jobs.
55:15They're a product of the main tree of
55:18the message.
55:19So we have plenty more to go to.
55:21I'll just say it like that.
55:22So if you've enjoyed our show and you
55:24want more information, you can check us
55:25out on the web.
55:26You can find us at william-branham.org
55:28and christiangospelchurch.org.
55:31For more about the history of William
55:32Branham and the healing revivals, you
55:34can read, come out of her, my people.
55:36And for more about the dark side of
55:38the new apostolic reformation, you
55:40can read Weaponized Religion from
55:41Christian Identity to the NAR, both
55:44available on Amazon, Kindle, and
55:46Audible.
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56:32We'll see you next time.