7 - Madre de todos los discipulos - Vídeo Dailymotion

Evangelizacion Activa

Ver 7 - Madre de todos los discipulos - Evangelizacion Activa en Dailymotion

Transcript

00:00:00Music

00:00:01Today we're going to talk about a topic that isn't very...

00:00:25I could say that it's not very spiritual, in the sense that we'll see, her name is Mary, the mother of all disciples.

00:00:35This topic has to do with Mary's relationship with our separated brethren.

00:00:43So we know there are controversies, they say, they don't say, and the truth is I think that in general most Catholics don't know

00:00:53Why is there this conflict between our separated brethren and our Blessed Mother?

00:00:59because it is one of the elements that generally occurs when a person changes religion,

00:01:05He changes churches, and immediately comes to our house and tells us to remove the images.

00:01:11And well, there are several topics, one of which would be images, which I'm not going to discuss today.

00:01:16But let's see where all this comes from and also see the progress we have made in the ecumenical line.

00:01:24In other words, much progress has been made, and one of the important issues in that progress,

00:01:30Well, it has to do precisely with the acceptance of, or rather, on their part, of certain things

00:01:37And about us and other things, right?

00:01:40So we're going to see that there are indeed basic elements on their part that explain a certain reluctance.

00:01:49Regarding our way of conceptualizing our relationship with the Virgin Mary,

00:01:55But they have also exaggerated other things.

00:01:58So, well, ecumenical dialogue is working on rediscovering the ways

00:02:03so that we can return to unity.

00:02:07We are still far away, but much closer than in the past.

00:02:11especially, as we shall see there, Max Turian, a Calvinist theologian,

00:02:16who made a very important contribution with Mary, Mother of my Lord.

00:02:22It is a very important theological book, in which it presents many elements that have contributed to the present day.

00:02:28especially regarding the separated siblings, discovering new things they didn't see before, right?

00:02:37All of this obviously refers in general to formal churches,

00:02:42Pentecostal, evangelical, and obviously Calvinist and Lutheran churches, primarily

00:02:50which are, let's say, formal churches.

00:02:52They have an organization, they have seminars, they formally study Sacred Scripture.

00:03:00Many of them, especially the older ones, such as the Calvinists and Lutherans,

00:03:05They even study Greek and Latin in their seminaries; in short, they are truly serious churches.

00:03:11They are receiving adequate training so that we can talk to them,

00:03:19because we encounter all these hundreds or thousands of sects of brothers

00:03:26that they simply gather together or that we're not going to touch on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses,

00:03:33because they are not Christians.

00:03:35Therefore, dialogue becomes even more complicated with non-Christians.

00:03:40They should be treated the same as all other non-Christians.

00:03:45Even if they have them, they should also use the Bible, but we know it has been altered.

00:03:49Therefore, they do not recognize the divinity of Christ.

00:03:51Then, other aspects become more complicated.

00:03:55So, let's look at the issue of churches and how we are moving towards unity.

00:04:01And we too, I think it's good, it's very fair and it's important that we Catholics also

00:04:08Let us acknowledge that not everything we have said and everything we know about our Blessed Mother is true.

00:04:15Well, that's exactly how we have it today, isn't it?

00:04:19So, what's okay and what's not?

00:04:22So, it's going to be a much more theological topic.

00:04:25There won't be as many quotes as usual; it's not strictly a biblical topic.

00:04:29If it's not a theological topic, let's try to learn a little about it.

00:04:33Why is she the Mother of all disciples?

00:04:37And what are we doing, how are we progressing?

00:04:40So, well, the biblical basis for talking about this

00:04:44That's the topic; that's generally where they've started, especially Max Turian.

00:04:50What can I say? He was one of the Protestant theologians

00:04:53most important in this dialogue with the separated churches.

00:05:00Part of the quote from John, in chapter 19, verses 25 to 27,

00:05:07We know it well, there is Jesus crucified and at the foot of the cross is

00:05:12Our Blessed Mother and Saint John.

00:05:16The dialogue that takes place there is what gives rise to all of this.

00:05:20There Jesus says to Mary,

00:05:25Here is your son, and then he says to John,

00:05:29There's your mother.

00:05:30And everything that has been studied is clear,

00:05:34We have already seen this here in some of our reflections,

00:05:37How from that moment on, says Saint John,

00:05:40He took her to live in his house.

00:05:42The whole issue is that he doesn't speak in a very personalized way,

00:05:47We don't even know exactly who that beloved disciple is,

00:05:52because it never has a name.

00:05:54It has been suggested that it might be Juan,

00:05:57Santiago's brother,

00:06:02It could be, or it has generally been attributed to that John,

00:06:06TRUE?

00:06:07Today, people tend to talk about the author of the fourth gospel,

00:06:10because the truth is, no one knows for sure who that author is.

00:06:16We know that he was someone very close to Jesus,

00:06:20to the point that Clemens Stock,

00:06:22who was the director of the biblical school there in Rome,

00:06:29He conducted a fairly important study,

00:06:32which he published around 1996-97,

00:06:38where he believes that person could even be Lazarus,

00:06:43whose name is Juan Lázaro.

00:06:46So, but to the author of the fourth gospel,

00:06:49He is interested in the characters,

00:06:51not the names,

00:06:53so that this can continue,

00:06:55Well, in time,

00:06:56Because if it's a specific person,

00:06:59If Jesus is referring to a specific person,

00:07:02whose name is Juan, Luis, Pedro,

00:07:03whatever its name,

00:07:04Well, he's simply handing it over to his mother,

00:07:07to that Luis,

00:07:08or that Juan,

00:07:09or that Pedro,

00:07:10or whatever it was called.

00:07:10And not,

00:07:12the author of the fourth gospel,

00:07:14He wanted it to be given to the disciple,

00:07:18I mean,

00:07:18It has a valency that is not nominal,

00:07:21but it is a value that encompasses all disciples.

00:07:27To whom is this mother handing this over?

00:07:30He is handing it out to all the disciples.

00:07:33And on the other hand,

00:07:34also taking it away at that moment,

00:07:37and not call Mary by her name,

00:07:40TRUE?

00:07:41But woman,

00:07:43what does he say to her,

00:07:44women,

00:07:44There's your son,

00:07:47It does exactly the same thing.

00:07:48So,

00:07:49here,

00:07:50above all,

00:07:51Max Turian,

00:07:52You see how there is an important theological relationship,

00:07:57Regarding the relationship of the disciples,

00:07:59which is all of us,

00:08:00and they,

00:08:02as Calvinists,

00:08:03because they are also considered disciples,

00:08:06TRUE?

00:08:06They,

00:08:06in fact,

00:08:06Well, they say they're the originals.

00:08:08TRUE?

00:08:08I mean,

00:08:09They say that we have misrepresented the scripture,

00:08:12And we've done a lot of things.

00:08:14I've talked about this a little at another time.

00:08:17But finally he says,

00:08:18well,

00:08:19our Catholic brothers,

00:08:21TRUE?

00:08:21Well, they are disciples,

00:08:22just as we are disciples,

00:08:24so,

00:08:25If I am a disciple,

00:08:27Well, he's handing this woman over to me too.

00:08:31He's handing me over to his mother.

00:08:33So,

00:08:33From there begins a whole new dimension,

00:08:37which is what we're going to talk about.

00:08:39So,

00:08:40see that at the base,

00:08:41certainly,

00:08:42We need to start recovering,

00:08:43As I have said,

00:08:45Well, many times,

00:08:46And that is why I continually insist with you,

00:08:49and in every forum where I have the opportunity,

00:08:52to return to biblical foundations.

00:08:56Already since the Second Vatican Council,

00:08:58that strong insistence comes,

00:09:00to return to biblical foundations,

00:09:02Because that's where it is,

00:09:04well,

00:09:04our entire growth platform,

00:09:09of instruction on revealed truth.

00:09:11So,

00:09:12There we have this data,

00:09:14which is where we will move forward from.

00:09:17I'm going to talk a little bit,

00:09:18So now that we have a bit of a framework,

00:09:20from where and what do we want to build,

00:09:23a little bit of history,

00:09:24No?

00:09:24Mary's problem in relation to our brothers,

00:09:28Well, it has different facets,

00:09:30or it has different angles,

00:09:31from where we could guide him.

00:09:34Has,

00:09:35well,

00:09:36the problem of the response,

00:09:39that is to say,

00:09:40María is a topic that seems to put Chile in the hands of the evangelical brothers,

00:09:46I mean,

00:09:47We've seen it,

00:09:48we're sorry,

00:09:50in the people we deal with,

00:09:53people we listen to,

00:09:55Because to them it seems like you're saying Maria,

00:09:57and their hair stands on end like a cat's,

00:10:01TRUE?

00:10:01I mean,

00:10:02And one says,

00:10:03billy goat,

00:10:04I mean,

00:10:04well,

00:10:04No,

00:10:05I don't understand what could happen.

00:10:07I mean,

00:10:07certainly,

00:10:08There is the issue of intercession,

00:10:11which is another topic that doesn't only involve the Virgin Mary,

00:10:15but it encompasses,

00:10:16well,

00:10:16to all the saints.

00:10:17We Catholic Christians,

00:10:20We believe there is a triumphant church,

00:10:24who is with us,

00:10:26well,

00:10:27united,

00:10:27and that triumphant church,

00:10:29where all those who are already in heaven are,

00:10:32well,

00:10:32They are continually praying to the Lord,

00:10:34They have become our intercessors before God.

00:10:37They,

00:10:38well,

00:10:38They don't accept this topic very well.

00:10:41And they stick this on,

00:10:42Because the problem with the Protestant,

00:10:45It's becoming a paste.

00:10:47I mean,

00:10:47He's hitting a lot of tracks,

00:10:49and then,

00:10:49That's why it's difficult to talk to them.

00:10:52because they jump from one topic to another.

00:10:54I mean,

00:10:54They have them so connected,

00:10:55that if you start talking about intercession,

00:10:58and then you box them in within the intercession,

00:11:00Then they move on to the topic,

00:11:02For example,

00:11:03of the images.

00:11:05And then,

00:11:06Yeah,

00:11:06But the images...

00:11:07let's see,

00:11:07moment,

00:11:08moment,

00:11:09We are talking about intercession,

00:11:10Let's finish this topic.

00:11:12But ordinarily,

00:11:14and so,

00:11:14well,

00:11:14Do it yourselves,

00:11:15which has worked very well for me.

00:11:17I remember,

00:11:18on some occasion,

00:11:19I was in the seminary,

00:11:22was,

00:11:22I don't know,

00:11:23second,

00:11:23third year,

00:11:24in third year,

00:11:24there at the seminary,

00:11:26and one of the sons of a friend of mine,

00:11:30had converted to,

00:11:32to the,

00:11:33to one of these separate churches,

00:11:35And I had plenty of time,

00:11:36total,

00:11:36that they sent it to me,

00:11:37so that I,

00:11:37well,

00:11:38I will explain it to him,

00:11:39You know,

00:11:39No,

00:11:40trying to recover it,

00:11:41No?

00:11:42And he came to see me,

00:11:43already quite educated,

00:11:45he,

00:11:45This guy,

00:11:46on the subject,

00:11:48And then I was,

00:11:49I'm not lying to you,

00:11:50a couple of hours,

00:11:51talking to him,

00:11:52and in the end,

00:11:54I returned to my room frustrated,

00:11:57I mean,

00:11:57No,

00:11:58and not,

00:11:58I couldn't find it,

00:12:00the reason for my frustration,

00:12:01and why,

00:12:02He rather seemed to always,

00:12:04He left, looking very happy.

00:12:05saying,

00:12:05You see,

00:12:06He is wrong.

00:12:07I'm the one who's right.

00:12:09It was a dating war,

00:12:10as you can't imagine,

00:12:11No,

00:12:11They say here,

00:12:12the date so-and-so, this,

00:12:13and at the date so-and-so to the other one,

00:12:15and in the quote,

00:12:16And he said,

00:12:16But I gave him all the appointments,

00:12:18why not,

00:12:19Why aren't we moving forward?

00:12:20TRUE,

00:12:21And then I realized,

00:12:23of the technique,

00:12:24I mean,

00:12:24the technique is once,

00:12:25that he can no longer find,

00:12:26how to get out,

00:12:27another topic is introduced,

00:12:28and you get hooked,

00:12:30And you go with him,

00:12:30to the next topic,

00:12:31And then you start talking,

00:12:32Now, regarding the images,

00:12:34I mean,

00:12:34The issue was not resolved.

00:12:35of intercession,

00:12:37And you've gone too far.

00:12:37the topic of images,

00:12:38So now you're going to start,

00:12:39to discuss the whole topic,

00:12:40from the images,

00:12:42And then all the appointments go,

00:12:43from there to here,

00:12:44until a moment comes,

00:12:45that you also corner him,

00:12:47But then he tells you,

00:12:48Yeah,

00:12:48But the Pope,

00:12:51What does the Pope have to do with it?

00:12:53Well,

00:12:53I don't know,

00:12:54I mean,

00:12:54there from,

00:12:55Regarding the images,

00:12:58the Pope,

00:12:59And when you finally cornered him,

00:13:00also on the subject of the Pope,

00:13:02You're missing another one,

00:13:03and then,

00:13:04You walk like a mouse,

00:13:06running around,

00:13:07and the cat chasing you,

00:13:08then no,

00:13:10The issue is,

00:13:12one thing,

00:13:13Let's talk,

00:13:14about images,

00:13:16And that's where we'll wrap things up.

00:13:18No,

00:13:18There is no other topic,

00:13:20images,

00:13:21intercession,

00:13:22so,

00:13:23That's where we come in,

00:13:24We have to go to them,

00:13:25framing,

00:13:26so you can finish,

00:13:28a topic,

00:13:28TRUE?

00:13:28generally,

00:13:30generally,

00:13:31We can box them up,

00:13:34very good,

00:13:34because there comes a time,

00:13:36above all,

00:13:37to these sects,

00:13:38which are the ones that are generally used,

00:13:40we work,

00:13:40TRUE?

00:13:41For example,

00:13:41They proliferate here,

00:13:43this,

00:13:43the one of,

00:13:44which originates from the king's castle,

00:13:46and then from there,

00:13:47the vine,

00:13:48and others like these,

00:13:49who are shepherd boys,

00:13:51They have some education,

00:13:53But they're not people.

00:13:53who has gone,

00:13:54He hasn't gone,

00:13:55to seminars,

00:13:56He has not studied Greek,

00:13:57For example,

00:13:59it's not,

00:13:59He doesn't know Latin,

00:14:01It has no basis,

00:14:03anthropological,

00:14:05generally,

00:14:06They don't know,

00:14:07Patristic history,

00:14:08while,

00:14:09the seminars,

00:14:10serious,

00:14:11They accept Saint Augustine,

00:14:13and they accept,

00:14:13our patrology,

00:14:14It is also,

00:14:15largely,

00:14:16integrated up to them,

00:14:17TRUE?

00:14:17I mean,

00:14:18the Lutherans,

00:14:19well,

00:14:19They recognize it well,

00:14:21instead,

00:14:21You start chatting,

00:14:22with one of these people,

00:14:23that the only thing that has,

00:14:25Well, I mean,

00:14:25Yeah,

00:14:25certainly,

00:14:26It changed their lives,

00:14:27There was a serious conversion,

00:14:29in their lives,

00:14:30but they have no knowledge,

00:14:31They don't have a platform,

00:14:33so,

00:14:33talk to them,

00:14:34It really is,

00:14:36waste time,

00:14:38And one of the things,

00:14:39what have they done to them,

00:14:40in order to be able to change,

00:14:41well,

00:14:41That's the topic,

00:14:41of the Virgin Mary,

00:14:42because?

00:14:43because we are one people,

00:14:44eminently Marian,

00:14:46well,

00:14:47If she is our mother,

00:14:48She is the mother of the disciples,

00:14:50We can't be outdone,

00:14:51that a Marian people,

00:14:53I mean,

00:14:53the people of God,

00:14:54or is he Marian?

00:14:55or it is not God's people,

00:14:57because necessarily,

00:14:58We are children of Mary,

00:15:01I think I've already mentioned it,

00:15:02on some occasion,

00:15:03with you,

00:15:04that the Protestant,

00:15:06He's going to die twice.

00:15:07He's going to die the first time.

00:15:10Well, I don't know.

00:15:10of cancer,

00:15:11or of what he,

00:15:11is going to die,

00:15:12And when I get to heaven,

00:15:14and see the Virgin Mary,

00:15:15seated next to Jesus,

00:15:17He's going to die again.

00:15:18I mean,

00:15:19say,

00:15:20what is this?

00:15:21TRUE?

00:15:21All my life I thought,

00:15:23And what did I say?

00:15:24Imagine,

00:15:25How terrible!

00:15:26No?

00:15:26I see it in my own person,

00:15:29in,

00:15:30When I started studying,

00:15:32the doctorate,

00:15:33well,

00:15:34They start one by one,

00:15:35many scabs will fall off,

00:15:37which we are going to talk about today,

00:15:38a bit,

00:15:39we have spoken,

00:15:40of things that the church,

00:15:41well,

00:15:41has been giving us,

00:15:43not based,

00:15:44in biblical data,

00:15:45And that's great,

00:15:46They are becoming more reaffirmed,

00:15:47They are becoming more reaffirmed,

00:15:48They are becoming more reaffirmed,

00:15:49And we have ideas,

00:15:51which are not correct,

00:15:52For example,

00:15:53I defended,

00:15:54And I remember many times,

00:15:56Yes, I have it recorded.

00:15:57I can see myself saying this,

00:15:58No?

00:15:59on the subject of Mary's virginity,

00:16:02I remember,

00:16:03And he was still just a kid,

00:16:04I mean,

00:16:04which would have,

00:16:05I don't know,

00:16:0620 years old,

00:16:0722 years old,

00:16:07I remember it very clearly,

00:16:09to be giving,

00:16:10to be giving a talk,

00:16:12for a group of young people,

00:16:14but already older,

00:16:16I mean,

00:16:16perhaps a little bigger,

00:16:18that I,

00:16:18We were talking,

00:16:19on the subject of Mary's virginity,

00:16:21because?

00:16:21I don't know,

00:16:22But that was the point,

00:16:23and then,

00:16:24You see,

00:16:25says,

00:16:26Saint Luke says,

00:16:27No?

00:16:27in his gospel,

00:16:29Mary answered the angel,

00:16:31How is that possible?

00:16:33I mean,

00:16:33How will this happen?

00:16:35since I do not know a man,

00:16:37and then,

00:16:37I remember,

00:16:38who always said,

00:16:40well,

00:16:40as?

00:16:41well,

00:16:41Let's see, Maria,

00:16:42that you don't know,

00:16:43how babies are born,

00:16:44here,

00:16:45about the little birds,

00:16:46and the little bees,

00:16:47and all that,

00:16:47Well,

00:16:48Well, you don't have it right now.

00:16:49But you're going to have to,

00:16:50TRUE?

00:16:50So,

00:16:51From there,

00:16:52I,

00:16:53well,

00:16:53answered the question,

00:16:54that Maria,

00:16:56well,

00:16:56had taken a vow of virginity,

00:16:58And that's why,

00:16:59He says that,

00:17:00TRUE?

00:17:00Well,

00:17:01Well,

00:17:01well,

00:17:02It turns out,

00:17:03Once you start studying,

00:17:04Imagine that my topic,

00:17:06precisely,

00:17:06my doctoral topic,

00:17:08well,

00:17:08It is precisely the virginity of Mary,

00:17:10so,

00:17:11You need to start getting involved,

00:17:12well,

00:17:12deep down,

00:17:13and then,

00:17:14you realize that,

00:17:15well,

00:17:15that argument,

00:17:17well,

00:17:18It doesn't have much firmness,

00:17:20TRUE?

00:17:21and,

00:17:22when one studies it,

00:17:23in greater depth,

00:17:25you can consult,

00:17:26well,

00:17:27in addition to my doctoral thesis,

00:17:28they can consult,

00:17:29There is a book,

00:17:30which is in Spanish,

00:17:31hard to obtain,

00:17:31because he's from Spain,

00:17:32And since there isn't much of a market here,

00:17:34on this topic of the,

00:17:36of theology,

00:17:37especially Marian,

00:17:39well,

00:17:39many times,

00:17:40It's not available in bookstores.

00:17:41but if,

00:17:42If they succeed,

00:17:42and also,

00:17:44If you're interested in getting into the deep end,

00:17:46in biblical theology,

00:17:48to study Mary,

00:17:49is called,

00:17:50Mary in the New Testament,

00:17:52You can find it at,

00:17:53on Amazon,

00:17:54also there in the United States,

00:17:56Mary in the New Testament,

00:17:58This is a great book,

00:18:00very important,

00:18:02because it's done,

00:18:03by two Catholics,

00:18:05and two Protestants,

00:18:07Yeah?

00:18:08in such a way,

00:18:09that neither allows the other,

00:18:10to say more,

00:18:11that what the text says,

00:18:13Yeah?

00:18:14in a book,

00:18:15nothing more Catholics,

00:18:16Well, I'm leaving.

00:18:17especially to Catholic theology,

00:18:19patristic use,

00:18:20I use everything,

00:18:20and then,

00:18:21Well,

00:18:22extract,

00:18:23from the sacred scripture,

00:18:25but,

00:18:26I'll add it,

00:18:27with patristics,

00:18:28with tradition,

00:18:29in the end,

00:18:29With all this,

00:18:31when they are working,

00:18:32two Protestants,

00:18:33and two Catholics,

00:18:34This is not fair.

00:18:36is,

00:18:36writing only,

00:18:37What does the scripture say?

00:18:39about the Virgin Mary,

00:18:41That's the point,

00:18:41And that's why it's so important,

00:18:43It's the textbook,

00:18:44that I use with the boys,

00:18:45and I complement it,

00:18:46with other books,

00:18:48nothing more,

00:18:49by Catholic authors,

00:18:50No?

00:18:50But this one is very interesting,

00:18:52because,

00:18:52He tells you,

00:18:53What does it say?

00:18:54And what doesn't it say?

00:18:55and then,

00:18:57For example,

00:18:57This is by Raymond Brown,

00:18:59He is the director of,

00:19:01He is the team manager,

00:19:04He is Catholic.

00:19:06It's Raymond Brown,

00:19:07and,

00:19:08in the end,

00:19:09in the conclusions,

00:19:10Well,

00:19:10For example,

00:19:10when they bring up the subject,

00:19:12virginity,

00:19:13What does Raymond Brown conclude?

00:19:15This topic is not in the Bible,

00:19:17That's the conclusion.

00:19:21What does that mean?

00:19:23Look at this,

00:19:24What does that mean?

00:19:25You Catholic,

00:19:27You can't tell me,

00:19:29which the Bible says,

00:19:30that Mary is always a virgin,

00:19:32because the Bible doesn't touch on it,

00:19:34For that purpose,

00:19:35you need to do,

00:19:36another series of reflections,

00:19:38and use other sources,

00:19:40To ensure this,

00:19:41Yeah?

00:19:42You Protestant,

00:19:44You can't tell me,

00:19:45that Mary had children,

00:19:46why not,

00:19:47It's not there,

00:19:48I mean,

00:19:48It's a topic,

00:19:50which the Bible does not cover,

00:19:51Yeah?

00:19:51The perpetual virginity of Mary,

00:19:53It's not an issue,

00:19:54that the Bible deals with,

00:19:56I can't say,

00:19:57leaving the Virgin,

00:19:58who is always virgin,

00:19:59And you can't tell me,

00:20:01who had children,

00:20:03zero,

00:20:04zero,

00:20:04TRUE?

00:20:07What does that mean?

00:20:08That,

00:20:08Okay,

00:20:09Let's talk about virginity.

00:20:11we have to take,

00:20:12other references,

00:20:13we have to take,

00:20:15certainly,

00:20:16based on the Bible,

00:20:17But now,

00:20:18we have to do,

00:20:19Quite a reflection,

00:20:21first,

00:20:23For example,

00:20:24briefly touching on this,

00:20:26For example,

00:20:28Why Jesus,

00:20:30He hands it over to Maria,

00:20:32still,

00:20:33friend,

00:20:34We don't know who he is.

00:20:35that disciple,

00:20:35to the one who is there on the cross,

00:20:37If he has more siblings,

00:20:39But that's just a thought.

00:20:41It's a reflection,

00:20:42that I do,

00:20:42And you will be able to answer me,

00:20:44well,

00:20:45And you can tell me,

00:20:46for some reason,

00:20:47whichever you believe in,

00:20:48that is given to him,

00:20:48I can tell you,

00:20:50I believe it is handed over,

00:20:52because he has no other siblings,

00:20:54I would be,

00:20:54well,

00:20:55Jesus is very cruel.

00:20:56by tearing him away from his brothers,

00:20:59to his mother,

00:20:59and give it to her now,

00:21:00so that he can go and live there,

00:21:01because also,

00:21:01She's going to move there,

00:21:02with Juan,

00:21:04TRUE?

00:21:04So,

00:21:05in a family,

00:21:06what Jewish families would be like,

00:21:08well,

00:21:09There wasn't one,

00:21:09not two,

00:21:10There were five of them,

00:21:11six or seven,

00:21:12TRUE?

00:21:12Because what's important,

00:21:13was to procreate,

00:21:14so that the people,

00:21:15grew,

00:21:17so,

00:21:17spaced,

00:21:18Imagine,

00:21:18two,

00:21:19three,

00:21:19four years,

00:21:19well,

00:21:20If Jesus is 33,

00:21:21when he dies,

00:21:22well,

00:21:22I would have siblings,

00:21:22probably,

00:21:2318,

00:21:2419 years old,

00:21:25that they would still have,

00:21:25than being at home,

00:21:27who are not married,

00:21:28because the boy,

00:21:28He leaves the house,

00:21:30not like now,

00:21:30who take to the streets,

00:21:31then,

00:21:32then,

00:21:32TRUE?

00:21:33At that time,

00:21:34well,

00:21:35until they got married,

00:21:36They were leaving the house,

00:21:36No?

00:21:37So,

00:21:38It is a Catholic argument,

00:21:40the other,

00:21:42can you invalidate it for me?

00:21:43And can you tell me,

00:21:44And where did you get that from?

00:21:45No,

00:21:45well,

00:21:46don't have,

00:21:46TRUE?

00:21:46And I rely on myself too,

00:21:48in tradition,

00:21:49throughout history,

00:21:50TRUE?

00:21:50We don't have a single text,

00:21:52throughout history,

00:21:54where it is spoken,

00:21:55of the children of Mary,

00:21:57It doesn't exist.

00:22:00so,

00:22:00Why insist,

00:22:02If we have a tradition,

00:22:03If we have different elements,

00:22:06that guide us,

00:22:08TRUE?

00:22:08Especially us,

00:22:09Catholics,

00:22:10tradition,

00:22:11It's a tradition,

00:22:13that we have been receiving,

00:22:15from generation to generation,

00:22:16and which testifies to us,

00:22:18that Jesus,

00:22:19It is simply,

00:22:20the only one,

00:22:21from the others,

00:22:22but,

00:22:24It's not in the Bible,

00:22:25Yeah?

00:22:26And because of them,

00:22:27They are writing,

00:22:30so,

00:22:31We already killed them there.

00:22:32No?

00:22:33I mean,

00:22:33There's no way out there.

00:22:35because?

00:22:35Because it's a topic,

00:22:36that is not in the Bible,

00:22:37And if it's not in the Bible,

00:22:39Well then,

00:22:40Well, we need to talk about another topic.

00:22:41if you just want to continue,

00:22:43with just writing,

00:22:44Well, we have to leave now.

00:22:45On another topic,

00:22:46because that,

00:22:47That one isn't there.

00:22:48No?

00:22:49however,

00:22:50we see how,

00:22:52well,

00:22:53not being,

00:22:54Well, we'll add it too,

00:22:56cream and soap,

00:22:57and everything we can throw at him,

00:22:59to start generating,

00:23:00an explanation,

00:23:02that when the time comes,

00:23:03It has no legs,

00:23:05As I was saying,

00:23:07on some occasion,

00:23:08we have built,

00:23:10a beautiful cathedral,

00:23:11who is our Blessed Mother,

00:23:13but in swampy terrain,

00:23:14so,

00:23:16We need to get it out.

00:23:17from the marshy terrain,

00:23:18and put it on dry land,

00:23:21that,

00:23:21Well, it's going to take us there.

00:23:22time,

00:23:23and that situation,

00:23:24swamp,

00:23:25that's what they take advantage of,

00:23:27the brothers,

00:23:27to say,

00:23:28Well, you guys make things up.

00:23:29It's that you,

00:23:30Where do they get all this from?

00:23:32And why the Virgin Mary?

00:23:32And why all this talk?

00:23:34because we,

00:23:35we've become bogged down,

00:23:37all this,

00:23:37There are misunderstandings,

00:23:41and above all,

00:23:42what's happening,

00:23:42In this situation,

00:23:44of the conversion,

00:23:45of the brothers,

00:23:46What else happens,

00:23:47in the Catholic Church,

00:23:50the,

00:23:50the lack of interest,

00:23:51that at a certain point,

00:23:53a person can have,

00:23:54newly converted,

00:23:55of the Blessed Virgin Mary,

00:23:58when one becomes,

00:24:00Anyone who has experienced it,

00:24:01in this way,

00:24:02He'll understand what I'm saying.

00:24:04normally,

00:24:05Christocentrism enters,

00:24:07exacerbated,

00:24:08because,

00:24:08He really is,

00:24:09the center of our life,

00:24:11He is the one who has converted us,

00:24:12He is the one who has saved us,

00:24:14when we,

00:24:15we hear the kerigma,

00:24:16because everything is centered,

00:24:18only in Christ,

00:24:19Because really,

00:24:20well,

00:24:21He is the important one,

00:24:23I mean,

00:24:23really,

00:24:24He is the meaning,

00:24:25the reason for our life,

00:24:27the reason we are here,

00:24:28He is everything,

00:24:29He is everything,

00:24:31The topic is not discussed.

00:24:32of the Virgin,

00:24:33because it doesn't fit,

00:24:34within the querigma,

00:24:35she is not part of it,

00:24:37of this initial process,

00:24:39conversion,

00:24:40has never been a part of it,

00:24:42she is part of it,

00:24:43of the church,

00:24:44when the Vatican Council,

00:24:46second,

00:24:47I was going to discuss the topic of Maria,

00:24:49There were several schemes,

00:24:51Different schemes are being prepared,

00:24:53in order to move forward,

00:24:54in how they are going to get along,

00:24:56the discussions,

00:24:57inside the,

00:24:58of the,

00:24:59of the,

00:24:59of the council,

00:25:01and then,

00:25:03There was one,

00:25:04a,

00:25:04a part of the church,

00:25:06some cardinals,

00:25:07that they wanted done,

00:25:08an exclusive treaty,

00:25:10about the Virgin Mary,

00:25:11that it was spoken about,

00:25:12especially on this topic,

00:25:13with the Protestants,

00:25:14and many topics,

00:25:15They were in there,

00:25:17But it was going to be a document,

00:25:18I was prepared,

00:25:19so that it would be a document,

00:25:20about the Virgin,

00:25:22on the other hand,

00:25:22There were those who said,

00:25:23No,

00:25:24We cannot continue,

00:25:25With that vision,

00:25:26We need to integrate it,

00:25:27finally,

00:25:29well in a big,

00:25:30This vision,

00:25:31of Paul VI,

00:25:32Paul VI,

00:25:33He put it in,

00:25:34the topic of Maria,

00:25:36when they played,

00:25:36the topic of the church,

00:25:39And that's why,

00:25:39in Lumen Gentium,

00:25:40who is he,

00:25:40the treatise on the church,

00:25:42of the Vatican Council,

00:25:43Maria,

00:25:44It's in chapter 8,

00:25:45There's a chapter there,

00:25:46that is to say,

00:25:47Maria is incomprehensible,

00:25:48outside the church,

00:25:50She has her place,

00:25:50in the church,

00:25:52But when we,

00:25:53we became,

00:25:55we went straight in,

00:25:56through Christ,

00:25:56He is,

00:25:58I mean,

00:25:58If you do not accept Christ,

00:25:59as the Lord of your life,

00:26:01If He is not the reason,

00:26:02of your existence,

00:26:03If you don't understand,

00:26:04that He died for you,

00:26:05and that He is the one who will give it to you,

00:26:06Thank you,

00:26:06and all that is,

00:26:07Christ,

00:26:08And it must be in the church,

00:26:10Well then,

00:26:10your conversion,

00:26:11He's going to stay.

00:26:12very,

00:26:13very high up,

00:26:14very,

00:26:14very halfway,

00:26:15No?

00:26:18The way I come,

00:26:18of the movement,

00:26:19of the renewal,

00:26:20this,

00:26:21was passing,

00:26:22very often,

00:26:24in that movement,

00:26:25when it starts,

00:26:26still,

00:26:27It still happens,

00:26:28I mean,

00:26:29There are still people,

00:26:30in the charismatic renewal,

00:26:32because of the method of conversion,

00:26:34which is based on,

00:26:36centered,

00:26:36in the querigma,

00:26:38They don't have a relationship.

00:26:40with the Virgin,

00:26:40And since they're people,

00:26:41coming,

00:26:42not at once,

00:26:43of a family,

00:26:44where there has been,

00:26:44Marian devotion,

00:26:46but they were,

00:26:47Well, actually,

00:26:47It would have to be said like that,

00:26:48in full,

00:26:49pagan peoples,

00:26:50TRUE?

00:26:51I mean,

00:26:51of this neo-paganism,

00:26:52as he calls it,

00:26:53Benedict XVI,

00:26:55this,

00:26:55This mixture,

00:26:57of baptism,

00:26:58with all the customs,

00:26:59of our world,

00:27:01Well, those people,

00:27:02suddenly,

00:27:02Discover Jesus Christ,

00:27:03Christ,

00:27:04It changes his life,

00:27:05and it keeps moving forward,

00:27:06in the biblical tradition,

00:27:08It continues to move forward,

00:27:08in the growth,

00:27:10above all,

00:27:10the first growths,

00:27:11that were based,

00:27:13in the community,

00:27:14from San Luis Potosí,

00:27:14the community,

00:27:15Saint John,

00:27:16which deals with,

00:27:16to center,

00:27:18of,

00:27:19of,

00:27:20of,

00:27:20to form,

00:27:21a true Christian,

00:27:23with all the elements,

00:27:25that,

00:27:25emerge from it,

00:27:26from the Bible,

00:27:27and it's not to be touched,

00:27:28the topic of Maria,

00:27:30It's not to be touched.

00:27:31TRUE?

00:27:32Obviously,

00:27:32the people,

00:27:33It's growing,

00:27:34It is getting stronger,

00:27:35Catholics,

00:27:35TRUE?

00:27:36in communion,

00:27:37in respect for the Pope,

00:27:38because it has to do with Peter,

00:27:40and it has to do with the apostles,

00:27:41and it is getting stronger,

00:27:42in many areas of his life,

00:27:44and a very weak area,

00:27:46It is the Virgin's,

00:27:48so,

00:27:49above all,

00:27:50in other times,

00:27:50Today things have changed a little,

00:27:52a little bit of this,

00:27:53because generally,

00:27:54at the end of the Kerygma,

00:27:55It's also about playing,

00:27:57some Marian elements,

00:27:59not always,

00:28:00but,

00:28:01It is proposed that,

00:28:02well,

00:28:03integrate,

00:28:04Now that you are going to join the Church,

00:28:05You also need to integrate it into your life,

00:28:07to the Virgin Mary,

00:28:08also its worship,

00:28:09their devotion,

00:28:09etc.

00:28:11What about the estranged brother?

00:28:13The estranged brother,

00:28:14which also stems from this situation,

00:28:16of paganism,

00:28:18TRUE?

00:28:18He comes from a family,

00:28:19That's why it's going to change.

00:28:20If I knew Jesus Christ,

00:28:21here in the Church,

00:28:22I would never leave,

00:28:23He's leaving because we haven't introduced him.

00:28:25properly to Christ,

00:28:26We haven't done it,

00:28:27a presentation,

00:28:28appropriate keridimatics,

00:28:30so that he will accept Jesus,

00:28:32as Lord of his life,

00:28:33but within the Church,

00:28:35so,

00:28:36The estranged brother is coming,

00:28:37He presents the Kerygma,

00:28:39and pushes him,

00:28:41so that their conversation can take place,

00:28:43inside,

00:28:44of the separated Church,

00:28:46obviously,

00:28:47well,

00:28:47Mary's,

00:28:48He still doesn't know,

00:28:49absolutely nothing,

00:28:52one of the elements,

00:28:53that they are going to,

00:28:53that they are going to use,

00:28:55well,

00:28:55that is to say,

00:28:56Notice how everything,

00:28:57And that's where they come in,

00:28:58all things,

00:28:59whether the images,

00:29:00whether the Pope,

00:29:01if this,

00:29:01if the other one,

00:29:02as if the rest were over there,

00:29:03and it's a complement,

00:29:05anti-Catholic,

00:29:06one of the problems,

00:29:08of the sects,

00:29:09nothing more from the sects,

00:29:10I mean,

00:29:11Protestant churches,

00:29:12serious,

00:29:13They are not anti-Catholic,

00:29:15nothing else,

00:29:16the sects,

00:29:17They are anti-Catholic,

00:29:19so,

00:29:19They are going to attack,

00:29:20Catholicism,

00:29:21because that's the way,

00:29:22to gain followers,

00:29:24while the churches,

00:29:25serious churches,

00:29:26That's not what they're looking for.

00:29:27they seek to grow,

00:29:29and obviously,

00:29:29They are also looking,

00:29:31I mean,

00:29:31They wonder too,

00:29:33How is this possible?

00:29:33that being brothers,

00:29:34since we are Christians,

00:29:35coming from the same source,

00:29:37of training,

00:29:38that the Holy Scripture,

00:29:39well,

00:29:39we cannot have,

00:29:41a full communion,

00:29:42certainly,

00:29:43well,

00:29:44That's where the whole issue comes in,

00:29:45of the,

00:29:46the interpretation,

00:29:48of some passages,

00:29:49As we were saying earlier,

00:29:50the topic,

00:29:51of virginity,

00:29:52If you're going to accept,

00:29:53that Mary,

00:29:54is always a virgin,

00:29:55or if nothing else,

00:29:56She was a virgin,

00:29:57before childbirth,

00:29:58so,

00:29:58These are situations,

00:29:59which complicate,

00:30:02some of the,

00:30:03interpretations,

00:30:04Protestants,

00:30:05that we have,

00:30:05in this,

00:30:06on this topic,

00:30:07well,

00:30:08They say,

00:30:08There is serious abuse,

00:30:10of theology,

00:30:11of philosophy,

00:30:12Aristotelian,

00:30:13exaggerations,

00:30:14and amplifications,

00:30:15without foundation,

00:30:16real biblical,

00:30:17which is what right now,

00:30:19I have explained,

00:30:19with some examples,

00:30:21and this,

00:30:21us,

00:30:22as Catholics,

00:30:23Fiores' father says,

00:30:24says,

00:30:25We have to accept it.

00:30:27problem of our church,

00:30:29before the Vatican Council,

00:30:31It was a church,

00:30:32tremendously dogmatic,

00:30:34in any case,

00:30:35situation of doubt,

00:30:36anathema,

00:30:37I mean,

00:30:38If you tell me something,

00:30:39that I,

00:30:40no,

00:30:41well,

00:30:41No,

00:30:42I won't accept it.

00:30:43TRUE,

00:30:43besides,

00:30:44You're going to be damned.

00:30:46let's see,

00:30:46Let's sit down,

00:30:47Let's open our minds,

00:30:49we are going to evaluate,

00:30:50Yes, truly.

00:30:51We are telling the truth,

00:30:53or not,

00:30:54I mean,

00:30:54Where did you get that from?

00:30:56that the Virgin Mary,

00:30:58She took a vow of virginity,

00:31:01Catholic church,

00:31:02Where did you get it from?

00:31:04Well,

00:31:07well,

00:31:09while I,

00:31:13science,

00:31:14I'm going to tell you,

00:31:16look,

00:31:16in the time of the Virgin Mary,

00:31:18did not exist,

00:31:19that culture,

00:31:21that for us,

00:31:22Today it's normal,

00:31:23There were no consecrated virgins,

00:31:25so,

00:31:27Where did you get it from?

00:31:29because we have,

00:31:29the Gospel of James,

00:31:31in the Gospel of James,

00:31:32says,

00:31:33let's see,

00:31:34Let's review,

00:31:35the Gospel of James,

00:31:36when it was composed,

00:31:38No,

00:31:38Well, at the end of the second century,

00:31:40and who composed it,

00:31:44Well,

00:31:44Today science tells us,

00:31:46that this Gospel,

00:31:47It was written,

00:31:48for some reason,

00:31:50someone,

00:31:51of Greek culture,

00:31:53not Jewish,

00:31:54TRUE,

00:31:55of Greek culture,

00:31:56probably,

00:31:57he of Jewish origin,

00:31:59but that he lived,

00:32:01in one area,

00:32:02Greek,

00:32:03and he will defend,

00:32:05precisely,

00:32:06this topic,

00:32:06in the second century,

00:32:07in the end,

00:32:08It has happened to them,

00:32:08200 years already,

00:32:11and now,

00:32:12When you,

00:32:13you start to check,

00:32:14the Gospel,

00:32:14For example,

00:32:15if they have the opportunity,

00:32:17as a culture,

00:32:17TRUE,

00:32:18And so that they may not be scandalized,

00:32:20because then they go around saying,

00:32:22around there,

00:32:22strange things,

00:32:23But so you can see,

00:32:26as,

00:32:27what they tell us,

00:32:28the brothers,

00:32:29well,

00:32:30We have to give them credit,

00:32:31I mean,

00:32:31It has merit,

00:32:32For example,

00:32:33There is a passage,

00:32:35in the Apocryphal Gospel,

00:32:37There are many,

00:32:38but,

00:32:38one who always,

00:32:39It catches my attention,

00:32:41It is that the Virgin Mary,

00:32:42lived,

00:32:43she was a virgin,

00:32:44I mean,

00:32:44was left,

00:32:45You see the tradition,

00:32:46about what,

00:32:46this,

00:32:47the girls,

00:32:47They need to be presented,

00:32:49to the temple,

00:32:49at three years old,

00:32:50Well,

00:32:51It's there in the Apocryphal Gospel,

00:32:53from Santiago,

00:32:54I mean,

00:32:54the parents,

00:32:55of the Virgin Mary,

00:32:56They brought the Virgin Mary,

00:32:57to the temple,

00:32:58to let her live,

00:33:00in the temple,

00:33:01where they couldn't,

00:33:02nor women allowed to enter,

00:33:04And there they went,

00:33:05to leave,

00:33:07the Pharisees,

00:33:09they knew,

00:33:10that she was,

00:33:10And that's what they call it,

00:33:12the Virgin of God,

00:33:13That's the New Testament.

00:33:17I mean,

00:33:18No, that's not it.

00:33:18Not applicable.

00:33:19to the Old Testament,

00:33:20which is in culture,

00:33:21where she is born,

00:33:22so,

00:33:23I can't,

00:33:24accept,

00:33:24at a certain point,

00:33:25that a girl,

00:33:27whether it has already been considered,

00:33:28the Virgin of God,

00:33:30and that, moreover,

00:33:31take her to live with them,

00:33:32to the temple,

00:33:34so that,

00:33:34this,

00:33:35there she is protected,

00:33:37until the time comes,

00:33:38where she is going to get married,

00:33:40No?

00:33:40then,

00:33:42the girl,

00:33:43I lived in the temple,

00:33:44and they fed her,

00:33:45Los Angeles,

00:33:47And as he walked,

00:33:52It wasn't touching the floor,

00:33:55Well,

00:33:56That's what it says,

00:33:57the Apocryphal Gospel,

00:33:58and from there,

00:33:59we have taken out,

00:34:00a lot of information,

00:34:02that little by little,

00:34:04Look,

00:34:052nd century,

00:34:063rd century,

00:34:07200 and minced meat,

00:34:08almost at the end,

00:34:10of 200,

00:34:13I mean,

00:34:13have passed,

00:34:1417 centuries,

00:34:15in which we have come,

00:34:16on the same subject,

00:34:18and we write,

00:34:19and another writes,

00:34:20And saints write,

00:34:21And everyone writes,

00:34:22about a book,

00:34:24So what?

00:34:25a,

00:34:25a substrate,

00:34:27Well, somewhat fanciful,

00:34:28TRUE?

00:34:30I mean,

00:34:31product,

00:34:32of great love,

00:34:33to the Virgin Mary,

00:34:36that already exists,

00:34:37in the 3rd century,

00:34:38so,

00:34:39This tells us something,

00:34:39of great love,

00:34:41that already existed,

00:34:42in the church,

00:34:43in the 3rd century,

00:34:44and not in Jerusalem,

00:34:47but probably,

00:34:48in Antioch,

00:34:49or somewhere else,

00:34:52but,

00:34:53that the Virgin,

00:34:53I was walking,

00:34:55flying,

00:34:56who was fed,

00:34:58by angels,

00:34:59that she was,

00:34:59the Virgin of God,

00:35:03Well, that's it.

00:35:03It doesn't have that,

00:35:05nor biblical foundation,

00:35:08TRUE?

00:35:08Nor,

00:35:09a substrate,

00:35:10anthropological,

00:35:12and historical,

00:35:13Yeah?

00:35:13So,

00:35:14We have to tell him,

00:35:15to the Protestant,

00:35:16Yeah?

00:35:18On this,

00:35:20you're right,

00:35:22Yeah?

00:35:22So,

00:35:23There is serious abuse,

00:35:24or there has been serious abuse,

00:35:26in this type of element,

00:35:27Another element,

00:35:30It's a cult,

00:35:30emanated,

00:35:31of pagan religions,

00:35:33when the pairing took place,

00:35:34between empire,

00:35:35and Christian faith,

00:35:37also,

00:35:38on this,

00:35:38we would have,

00:35:39that recognize,

00:35:40which indeed,

00:35:41an important part,

00:35:43of the cult,

00:35:45well,

00:35:45We were,

00:35:46collecting,

00:35:48of,

00:35:49well,

00:35:49religions,

00:35:50which were not exactly,

00:35:52our religion,

00:35:53TRUE?

00:35:53I mean,

00:35:54For example,

00:35:55all the temples,

00:35:55and all that we have,

00:35:57TRUE?

00:35:57Well,

00:35:58We don't collect it.

00:36:00of Christianity,

00:36:01I mean,

00:36:02the first communities,

00:36:03of the first five centuries,

00:36:05They celebrated in homes,

00:36:08Yeah?

00:36:08There were no special clothes,

00:36:10There wasn't,

00:36:11everything we have today,

00:36:13and that we have been adding,

00:36:14And is that wrong?

00:36:15No.

00:36:17But also,

00:36:18there we would have to say,

00:36:19Well,

00:36:20How much,

00:36:21in the worship of the Virgin Mary,

00:36:23us,

00:36:24we have,

00:36:24also,

00:36:25gone pulling elements,

00:36:26to give it to him,

00:36:28as in all pagan religions,

00:36:29It has to do with a god,

00:36:31and a goddess.

00:36:33And it's really tremendous,

00:36:34when one studies critically,

00:36:36Under these,

00:36:37these lines,

00:36:38the story,

00:36:39There are treaties,

00:36:41about the Virgin Mary,

00:36:42of the 16th or 17th century,

00:36:45where,

00:36:46when one reads it,

00:36:47he doesn't know,

00:36:47If you are referring to,

00:36:48to the Holy Spirit,

00:36:50or to the Virgin Mary.

00:36:51I mean,

00:36:53if not,

00:36:53he doesn't know,

00:36:54that that is a written document,

00:36:55about the Virgin Mary,

00:36:57one could swear,

00:36:58who is speaking,

00:36:59of the Holy Spirit,

00:37:01Yeah,

00:37:01I mean,

00:37:01divine quality,

00:37:03of Mary,

00:37:04By the 16th or 17th century,

00:37:06It's huge,

00:37:08Maria is growing up,

00:37:09I explain it to the boys,

00:37:10It's growing,

00:37:12in parallel,

00:37:13along with the worship,

00:37:14with Christian worship,

00:37:15with the worship of Jesus,

00:37:16but they are drifting further and further apart,

00:37:18and each one comes to have,

00:37:19their own,

00:37:20their own,

00:37:21this,

00:37:22dimensions,

00:37:23whereas at the beginning,

00:37:24You see,

00:37:24all the iconography,

00:37:26There is a class,

00:37:27which is called,

00:37:27Marian iconography,

00:37:29where,

00:37:30the iconography,

00:37:31We're doing well,

00:37:32presenting,

00:37:33the theological vision,

00:37:34that the people have,

00:37:36the first five centuries,

00:37:38always,

00:37:39always,

00:37:40always,

00:37:40Mary appears with the child,

00:37:42a single mystery,

00:37:44They cannot be separated,

00:37:46after the fourth century,

00:37:48a process begins,

00:37:50of separation,

00:37:51so,

00:37:52every time,

00:37:53Well, we see Mary,

00:37:54as,

00:37:55the paintings we have of Mary,

00:37:57a queen in castles,

00:37:59and,

00:38:00Yeah,

00:38:00I mean,

00:38:00is the,

00:38:01It is the theological vision,

00:38:02that is being acquired,

00:38:03No,

00:38:04today,

00:38:05Look how we're coming back,

00:38:06after the council,

00:38:08We're coming back,

00:38:08to integrate,

00:38:09the two mysteries,

00:38:11And again,

00:38:11Well, now,

00:38:12the images,

00:38:13that are presented to us from Mary,

00:38:14What's more,

00:38:15Mary of Nazareth,

00:38:17and not Mary the Queen,

00:38:18Maria,

00:38:19that she is indeed a queen of heaven,

00:38:21and all this,

00:38:22because it shows our,

00:38:23our love,

00:38:24TRUE,

00:38:25that love,

00:38:25so big,

00:38:26whom we have as our most holy mother,

00:38:29but it must be there,

00:38:30separate,

00:38:31of the theological question,

00:38:32Because if we don't say things,

00:38:35which are not,

00:38:35TRUE,

00:38:35I mean,

00:38:35I can say about my mother,

00:38:37Well, everything.

00:38:38TRUE,

00:38:38and I could write a huge poem about it,

00:38:41But I can't say she's the queen of the world.

00:38:43even if I tell him in my heart,

00:38:45But she's not the queen of the world,

00:38:46I mean,

00:38:47Well, she's my mom.

00:38:48He lives there in his house,

00:38:49And when I paint it,

00:38:51Well, I can paint it.

00:38:52with the love of a son,

00:38:53How wouldn't a son paint it?

00:38:55TRUE,

00:38:55whoever has it,

00:38:57Well, that gift,

00:38:58He will be able to do it,

00:38:58TRUE,

00:38:58The most I can do is

00:39:00They are three sticks and a little ball,

00:39:01TRUE,

00:39:02never,

00:39:02I never got past that point,

00:39:03so,

00:39:04If there is abuse,

00:39:06a cult that is coming,

00:39:09not exactly from our biblical foundation,

00:39:12but,

00:39:12obviously,

00:39:13as we started mixing,

00:39:15As the cult grew and developed,

00:39:18Well, it took elements from different places,

00:39:21and finally,

00:39:23they say,

00:39:23There is an equality between the figures of Christ and Mary,

00:39:27which is heresy,

00:39:28and it is an apostasy from the biblical faith,

00:39:31Maria,

00:39:33Yeah,

00:39:33Well,

00:39:35She is the mother of Jesus,

00:39:37TRUE,

00:39:37that there,

00:39:37Well, we could,

00:39:39as we're going to see,

00:39:39Max Turian says,

00:39:40No,

00:39:41calm,

00:39:41I mean,

00:39:43If she is the mother,

00:39:43But she is the mother of Jesus,

00:39:45so,

00:39:46She is the mother of my Lord,

00:39:47It's not just anyone,

00:39:48She's not just any woman,

00:39:50But she's human.

00:39:53He is not God,

00:39:55and it doesn't do everything we've often thought it would,

00:39:58and believed that she does,

00:39:59so,

00:40:00we have given it to him,

00:40:01And we have to acknowledge that,

00:40:02and be humble,

00:40:03TRUE,

00:40:03say,

00:40:04it's true,

00:40:04We've caught up to him,

00:40:06in their possession,

00:40:07in his grace,

00:40:08throughout,

00:40:09No,

00:40:10around there,

00:40:10There is no shortage of images,

00:40:12still,

00:40:13that are not from very long ago,

00:40:15They're still around,

00:40:17the images where we see,

00:40:19this,

00:40:20a window to heaven,

00:40:22where the window is open,

00:40:24and around there,

00:40:25There is a rosary,

00:40:26and around there,

00:40:27people climbing,

00:40:28No,

00:40:29and stories that are told,

00:40:31of Jesus,

00:40:33one day,

00:40:33this,

00:40:34strolling through the sky,

00:40:35Well, he says,

00:40:36hey,

00:40:36and this,

00:40:36What are you doing here?

00:40:37I should,

00:40:38He must be in hell.

00:40:39What are you doing here?

00:40:40says,

00:40:41No,

00:40:41Well, you know your mother.

00:40:42really,

00:40:43He put it in through the window,

00:40:44No,

00:40:45That is heresy.

00:40:48Because that makes you think,

00:40:52that God is less good,

00:40:55that the Virgin,

00:40:55TRUE,

00:40:56And it can't be,

00:40:57I mean,

00:40:58Jesus is the source,

00:40:59live by mercy,

00:41:01I mean,

00:41:02nobody,

00:41:03nor his mother,

00:41:03and no one can be better,

00:41:05more merciful,

00:41:06No,

00:41:07however,

00:41:07see how,

00:41:08we are generating these images,

00:41:11which obviously,

00:41:12because they are having an effect,

00:41:13all our culture,

00:41:15And then we came to think,

00:41:16People really think this,

00:41:18No,

00:41:18I mean,

00:41:19Who am I going to pray to?

00:41:20Well, I'm going to pray to the Virgin Mary.

00:41:22TRUE,

00:41:22because this Jesus,

00:41:23Oh Carlito,

00:41:24TRUE,

00:41:25I mean,

00:41:26I don't know if this happens to me,

00:41:27Maybe I wouldn't even get in with seven.

00:41:29I'll trade here even though I have five,

00:41:30the Virgin Mary,

00:41:31Well, it passes me from behind.

00:41:33No,

00:41:33And so,

00:41:34That's not the case,

00:41:35No,

00:41:35It doesn't work that way.

00:41:37Certainly, her intercession is important,

00:41:39and it's going to move,

00:41:41Well, everything I can,

00:41:43so that you may become,

00:41:44and finally,

00:41:45You have to get a seven,

00:41:48I mean,

00:41:48You have to pass,

00:41:50I mean,

00:41:50She's not going to pass you from behind.

00:41:52And now that nobody's watching,

00:41:54Come in,

00:41:55Look and get involved,

00:41:55well no,

00:41:56TRUE,

00:41:56It doesn't work that way.

00:41:58But these are the images we have been creating,

00:42:00and that people maintain,

00:42:02And that is why the Protestants say,

00:42:03Well, they're really bad.

00:42:05How can we accept that?

00:42:07Says,

00:42:07That is heresy.

00:42:09to the biblical faith,

00:42:10No?

00:42:11So, you see,

00:42:13that they have,

00:42:14certain fundamentals,

00:42:15I mean,

00:42:16They're not so far removed from the mountains,

00:42:17when we,

00:42:18They tell us,

00:42:19certain things,

00:42:20so,

00:42:20Well,

00:42:21that's why,

00:42:22herein,

00:42:23at this meeting,

00:42:24in this session,

00:42:25well,

00:42:26I want to show you all of this,

00:42:27I told them,

00:42:28It is a theological session,

00:42:29a little bit of waking up,

00:42:31that is to say,

00:42:31wow,

00:42:31all the things that the father told us,

00:42:33I thought that if I had made a vow,

00:42:35I thought that if I walked in the temple,

00:42:37there barefoot,

00:42:38and that the angels,

00:42:39well no,

00:42:40TRUE?

00:42:41So,

00:42:42That's not the case,

00:42:44so,

00:42:46And if it happens to them,

00:42:47I understand them,

00:42:48or I understand them perfectly,

00:42:49Because the same thing happened to me.

00:42:50when I studied in Dayton,

00:42:51TRUE?

00:42:51Oh,

00:42:52then he did not take a vow,

00:42:54And there I was, making a fool of myself.

00:42:57I almost got into a fistfight with someone over it,

00:43:00Well,

00:43:01well,

00:43:01That's what I learned.

00:43:03That's what I was taught,

00:43:04And that's what I defended,

00:43:05until suddenly you say,

00:43:07No,

00:43:07There are much deeper foundations,

00:43:09much more serious,

00:43:10that make my Christian faith,

00:43:12join a Marian faith,

00:43:14much more serious,

00:43:15but it has a basis,

00:43:17a little firmer,

00:43:18TRUE?

00:43:19and not just what's being thrown at us out there.

00:43:22What do the Protestants say too?

00:43:24Second element,

00:43:25I mean,

00:43:25on the one hand,

00:43:26they say,

00:43:27There is a symbol of natural theology,

00:43:29which cannot be,

00:43:30We do not accept it.

00:43:31Second,

00:43:32Mary as a symbol of tradition,

00:43:34in its autonomy,

00:43:36I mean,

00:43:36they,

00:43:37sola scriptura,

00:43:38tradition,

00:43:39money,

00:43:40so,

00:43:41Mary is the symbol of our tradition,

00:43:44Yeah?

00:43:45Because?

00:43:45Because we derive almost everything from tradition,

00:43:48except what is in the Bible,

00:43:50but,

00:43:51take the girl to the temple,

00:43:53this,

00:43:54the topic of,

00:43:55of Marian worship as such,

00:43:57I mean,

00:43:57to honor and worship the Virgin,

00:44:00Well, this is one,

00:44:01It is something that clearly identifies a Catholic,

00:44:06And where does he get it from?

00:44:08From tradition,

00:44:09The Protestant says,

00:44:09tradition does not exist,

00:44:11Tradition is going out,

00:44:13because?

00:44:13Why is it a tradition?

00:44:15Only what the scripture says,

00:44:16because we invented the rest,

00:44:19they say,

00:44:20They see in this a very large separation,

00:44:23between the Marian development,

00:44:25especially of dogmas,

00:44:26of what the Holy Scripture actually says,

00:44:29so,

00:44:30the dogmatic theme,

00:44:31Here he encounters a complicated obstacle,

00:44:35Yeah?

00:44:35Where does the Virgin say that,

00:44:38Was the Virgin Mary taken to heaven body and soul?

00:44:46No,

00:44:46Well, this...

00:44:48So where does it say that?

00:44:51Well no,

00:44:52It doesn't say,

00:44:52Where does it say that the Virgin Mary was conceived without original sin?

00:44:59That is heresy.

00:45:01Saint Paul, in his letter to the Romans, says that all have sinned.

00:45:04and everyone is everyone,

00:45:08I mean,

00:45:13encounters strong obstacles,

00:45:15because we lack a biblical basis for certain elements,

00:45:19the topic I studied for my doctorate,

00:45:23It seeks to provide biblical support for the virginity of Mary,

00:45:28Where does it say that the Virgin Mary is always a virgin?

00:45:33Well, there you go.

00:45:37in Luke,

00:45:37in chapter one,

00:45:39TRUE?

00:45:39It says there that,

00:45:40How is this going to happen if I remain a virgin?

00:45:43No,

00:45:43buddy,

00:45:44We already destroyed that.

00:45:46You've already realized that's not the case,

00:45:48Where does it say?

00:45:51Well,

00:45:52If you want to know where it says,

00:45:54Well, they have to read my doctoral thesis,

00:45:55TRUE?

00:45:58There,

00:45:58what's it called?

00:46:00Really,

00:46:01well,

00:46:02I got my bearings,

00:46:04I took it from Lucas,

00:46:05and we had a better time at Matthew 19,

00:46:07where Jesus speaks of virginity,

00:46:10Let's see what Jesus says about virginity.

00:46:13And about that,

00:46:13So let's see what we can apply to the Virgin Mary,

00:46:16And it says there that the Virgin Mary is a virgin,

00:46:19No,

00:46:19But let's see what it says,

00:46:20and from there try to develop,

00:46:22a theology that has a stronger biblical foundation,

00:46:27Yeah?

00:46:27So,

00:46:27what's happening?

00:46:29The Protestants say,

00:46:30You have created an entire dogma,

00:46:33that have made people believe,

00:46:34and it has no biblical support,

00:46:37it's true,

00:46:38It has no biblical basis,

00:46:40And that's why it's false?

00:46:41No,

00:46:43we know,

00:46:45says Saint John,

00:46:47twice,

00:46:48first in chapter 20,

00:46:50and then in chapter 21,

00:46:52says,

00:46:52Not everything Jesus did,

00:46:55It's in this book,

00:46:57If all the things Jesus did were written down,

00:47:00And he said,

00:47:01There wouldn't be enough books in the world to put them all in.

00:47:04that is to say,

00:47:04There is an important part,

00:47:07which we call tradition,

00:47:09and that is where we receive it from,

00:47:11a large part of the information,

00:47:13Not everything is in the Bible,

00:47:16And that's a biblical fact.

00:47:18so,

00:47:18the fact that there is no clear point,

00:47:23where it says certain things about the Virgin,

00:47:25That doesn't mean it's false.

00:47:26It simply means that it's not in the Bible.

00:47:28But we Catholics,

00:47:30We not only recognize the Bible,

00:47:32as the source of training and information,

00:47:35We also recognize tradition,

00:47:38and linked to tradition and the Bible,

00:47:44the teaching profession,

00:47:45that is to say,

00:47:45to whom it has been entrusted,

00:47:47They are the ones who help to discern,

00:47:50and to give us the real line,

00:47:52which we have to walk on,

00:47:54so,

00:47:55the dogmas,

00:47:55that's why,

00:47:56the church,

00:47:58since we do not have a biblical foundation,

00:48:01but we have all the tradition,

00:48:03who has been informing us,

00:48:04that Mary is always a Virgin,

00:48:06or that she was assumed into heaven,

00:48:08or that she was conceived without original sin,

00:48:10all this tradition,

00:48:12combined with elements,

00:48:14that they do not clearly specify,

00:48:17that data,

00:48:18but which confirm tradition,

00:48:21the church says,

00:48:22This is a revealed truth.

00:48:24God has revealed this to us,

00:48:26And it's important,

00:48:27vital for our salvation,

00:48:29They say,

00:48:30No,

00:48:30That's not true.

00:48:31there we find,

00:48:33come,

00:48:34a stumbling block,

00:48:35a job,

00:48:36that still,

00:48:38We will have to continue doing this,

00:48:40says,

00:48:40there is no,

00:48:41In many cases,

00:48:42an effective relationship,

00:48:44within the tradition of the church,

00:48:46and the word of God,

00:48:47here,

00:48:48I think that,

00:48:49This is much less,

00:48:50They don't have many arguments,

00:48:52in this sense,

00:48:53But it is important,

00:48:54As I said,

00:48:55that,

00:48:56Sometimes tradition,

00:48:58this,

00:48:59well no,

00:49:00It doesn't match up with us,

00:49:01perfectly,

00:49:02with the biblical data,

00:49:03above all,

00:49:04For example,

00:49:05have seen,

00:49:05that now,

00:49:07Well, it's sort of allowed.

00:49:09again,

00:49:09There was a moment,

00:49:09in which they took him out,

00:49:11and again,

00:49:11They put him back in,

00:49:12the one of the man of God,

00:49:13of this Valtorta,

00:49:14I,

00:49:16Well, I just ordered it,

00:49:17still,

00:49:18So,

00:49:18super archsuper,

00:49:18a thousand times,

00:49:19from Mariano,

00:49:20Well, everyone,

00:49:21I knew that I,

00:49:21I have always loved the Virgin Mary,

00:49:23so,

00:49:23when I was ordained,

00:49:23They gave me,

00:49:24a book,

00:49:25of Maria Valtorta,

00:49:27which was an extract,

00:49:28of all his books,

00:49:29because they are like seven books,

00:49:31of the man of God,

00:49:32and there,

00:49:32had extracted,

00:49:33all the passages,

00:49:34where Maria Valtorta,

00:49:35there was,

00:49:36He was talking about the Virgin Mary,

00:49:37so,

00:49:37I started reading it,

00:49:38with great interest,

00:49:39And so,

00:49:39how beautiful,

00:49:40the Virgin,

00:49:41And so there you have it,

00:49:42this,

00:49:43Maria Valtorta,

00:49:43who writes like this,

00:49:44like one,

00:49:44a little comic strip,

00:49:45and that Jesus,

00:49:46who arrived home,

00:49:47And he said,

00:49:47Mommy,

00:49:48and gave her little kisses,

00:49:48and well,

00:49:49This whole topic,

00:49:50Look,

00:49:50beautiful,

00:49:51But suddenly,

00:49:52I began to find myself,

00:49:53with some passages,

00:49:55And he said,

00:49:55Oh dear,

00:49:56If this is true,

00:49:58so,

00:49:58the Bible,

00:50:00I mean,

00:50:00There is no longer a relationship,

00:50:02between Bible,

00:50:03and what he is writing,

00:50:04Maria Valtorta,

00:50:05One of them is lying.

00:50:06who lies,

00:50:07Maria Valtorta,

00:50:08And that's because she lies.

00:50:09No,

00:50:09It is because she, as a mystic,

00:50:11because it expresses certain things,

00:50:13And maybe you're mistaken,

00:50:14And you say something,

00:50:15which is not exactly,

00:50:16nor what you saw,

00:50:17nor what you were told,

00:50:18so,

00:50:20That's why they have to go through it.

00:50:21through the sieve of the church,

00:50:23And when you give it to him,

00:50:25the document to the church,

00:50:27the church says,

00:50:28Yes, that's right.

00:50:28No, not this.

00:50:29Yes, that's right.

00:50:29No, not this.

00:50:29Yes, that's right.

00:50:30No, not this.

00:50:30and then you publish,

00:50:32what is harmonious,

00:50:34to tradition,

00:50:35to the Bible,

00:50:36and to the teaching profession,

00:50:37And that's what you can publish.

00:50:39But since there is one,

00:50:40a,

00:50:41There is a,

00:50:43a law,

00:50:46which allows,

00:50:47for some time now,

00:50:4820 or 30 years,

00:50:50that one can publish,

00:50:52without imprimatur,

00:50:53that is to say,

00:50:53without the church reviewing it,

00:50:55Well then, that's where it gets complicated.

00:50:57all,

00:50:58TRUE?

00:50:58So,

00:50:59We need to be careful,

00:51:00with what we read,

00:51:01because then,

00:51:02I tell them,

00:51:03We're defending things,

00:51:04And who says so?

00:51:05That's what Maria Valtorta says,

00:51:06well no,

00:51:09Who says that?

00:51:12I mean,

00:51:12He has to say it,

00:51:13the church,

00:51:14and the last element,

00:51:16which the separated brothers argue,

00:51:17says,

00:51:18It's because it's a symbol.

00:51:19of man's cooperation with God,

00:51:21and so,

00:51:23It is not accepted either.

00:51:24for her,

00:51:24because it is,

00:51:25writing alone,

00:51:27grace alone,

00:51:30so,

00:51:31no chance,

00:51:32that no one cooperates with God,

00:51:34everything is grace,

00:51:35salvation,

00:51:36It is an exclusive work of God,

00:51:38where man,

00:51:39cannot participate,

00:51:40fake,

00:51:41that,

00:51:43it's not,

00:51:44it isn't true,

00:51:45They rely on Romans,

00:51:47but,

00:51:47well,

00:51:48there,

00:51:49They're going to hit a wall.

00:51:51This is the center of the excursion,

00:51:52justification by faith,

00:51:54from the letter to the Romans,

00:51:55What I was just telling you,

00:51:56No?

00:51:57I mean,

00:51:57on the one hand,

00:51:58We have all sinned,

00:51:59and on the other hand,

00:52:00This is a free work,

00:52:02Nobody participates,

00:52:03She won't be spared.

00:52:04and no one is spared,

00:52:05because of the things he does,

00:52:07No?

00:52:07Which,

00:52:08well,

00:52:08Nor is it,

00:52:09That's not entirely true either,

00:52:11Huh?

00:52:12There is participation,

00:52:13If you believe and confess,

00:52:15There is a part that believes,

00:52:16and a part in which testimony is given,

00:52:18so,

00:52:19both of them,

00:52:19They are the ones that lead us,

00:52:20finally,

00:52:21to salvation,

00:52:22so,

00:52:23there,

00:52:23The whole debate comes into play,

00:52:25And then the appointments come in,

00:52:25and not the quotes,

00:52:26and well,

00:52:27There again,

00:52:28boom,

00:52:28Our discussion with them has stalled again,

00:52:32TRUE?

00:52:35Where are we going?

00:52:36What is the path to unity?

00:52:37What progress have we made?

00:52:38So far,

00:52:39all the difficulties,

00:52:40and the problems we encounter with this,

00:52:43No?

00:52:44So,

00:52:45There are three important points,

00:52:48who have given an interesting presentation on this,

00:52:52on the one hand,

00:52:53We have Luther,

00:52:55on the other hand,

00:52:56We have Karl Barth,

00:52:58who is also German,

00:53:00and we have,

00:53:01finally,

00:53:01to this Max Durian,

00:53:03in 1963,

00:53:041521,

00:53:07Luther,

00:53:08Karl Barth,

00:53:09in 1922,

00:53:10and Max Durian,

00:53:11Well, there.

00:53:12This one is completely recent,

00:53:14No?

00:53:15What does Luther tell us?

00:53:16Where do we have points,

00:53:18for us,

00:53:19start working with them,

00:53:21from his own theology,

00:53:22From what they believe?

00:53:24We need to move forward,

00:53:25from what they themselves believe,

00:53:27so,

00:53:27For example,

00:53:28Luther,

00:53:29no,

00:53:29which are not,

00:53:30let's see,

00:53:31Where do you come from?

00:53:33What is your base?

00:53:34What is your basis?

00:53:35No,

00:53:35well,

00:53:36Luther,

00:53:36Whatever it is,

00:53:37very good,

00:53:37And what did Luther say?

00:53:38Man,

00:53:40in Luther's works,

00:53:41if they ever manage to achieve it,

00:53:42Or I don't know if it will be in PDF format.

00:53:44But if they can download,

00:53:46the Magnificat,

00:53:47Luther's,

00:53:48It's a comment,

00:53:49beautiful,

00:53:52besides,

00:53:53composed,

00:53:5380 sermons,

00:53:55about the Virgin Mary,

00:53:57Luther,

00:53:58Okay?

00:54:00So,

00:54:00that,

00:54:02the Protestants,

00:54:02and that the,

00:54:03No,

00:54:03this is,

00:54:04as it has progressed,

00:54:05And as the atmosphere has become increasingly tense,

00:54:08within a culture,

00:54:09that comes out,

00:54:11already,

00:54:11of the revelation,

00:54:12so,

00:54:13The more it progresses,

00:54:14well,

00:54:15The further we are, the further away we are.

00:54:16to be able to find the truth,

00:54:18so,

00:54:19Luther,

00:54:20He delivers 80 sermons,

00:54:22and write a comment,

00:54:24marvelous,

00:54:25the Magnificat,

00:54:25That's the one I recommend.

00:54:26because it's the one I've read,

00:54:28And it truly is,

00:54:29beautiful,

00:54:30what he writes,

00:54:30of the Virgin Mary,

00:54:31Luther,

00:54:33for Luther,

00:54:34Mary is always a virgin,

00:54:37she,

00:54:38He always puts,

00:54:39For example,

00:54:40his faith,

00:54:40continuously,

00:54:41ponders,

00:54:42faith,

00:54:43of the Virgin Mary,

00:54:44something they say today,

00:54:45No,

00:54:45writing only,

00:54:46No,

00:54:47I mean,

00:54:48only,

00:54:49just grace,

00:54:49No,

00:54:50faith too,

00:54:50and a working faith,

00:54:51a faith that acts,

00:54:53not a faith that,

00:54:54Ah,

00:54:54I have faith,

00:54:54And I believe,

00:54:55He's going to save you,

00:54:56No,

00:54:56It is a faith that confesses,

00:54:57It is a faith that bears witness,

00:55:00There are several vestiges,

00:55:03People who have studied Luther's works in depth,

00:55:06They find vestiges of the Immaculate Conception,

00:55:09I mean,

00:55:10if I believed,

00:55:11Everything seems to indicate that Luther believed in the Immaculate Conception.

00:55:17Remember that this is a new dogma,

00:55:18I mean,

00:55:19It is a dogma that is barely 200 years old,

00:55:21It took a long time for the church to finally decide to say,

00:55:27indeed,

00:55:28She was conceived without original sin,

00:55:30because the topic of Romans 3 comes up there,

00:55:34All have sinned,

00:55:36then there,

00:55:37It wouldn't be until the 16th century,

00:55:38where this can be unblocked,

00:55:41We already saw it in one of our conferences,

00:55:45on the other hand,

00:55:46for Luther,

00:55:47She is an example of humility and acceptance of God's will.

00:55:51So for Luther,

00:55:52Maria was a grand lady,

00:55:55Why not you, who comes from that school?

00:55:57where from?

00:55:58How did you become disillusioned?

00:55:59How did you fade away?

00:56:01So, that way,

00:56:03have,

00:56:03just as we Catholics have areas that we need to correct,

00:56:08They also need to start turning around a little.

00:56:11and to say,

00:56:12if we have also made mistakes,

00:56:13We've exaggerated,

00:56:15We haven't really seen who this woman is in the Bible,

00:56:18from the perspective of Bartian theology,

00:56:21from Karl Barth,

00:56:23Mary is the mother of God,

00:56:25And so says Karl Barth,

00:56:26He says so,

00:56:27Mary is the mother of God,

00:56:30Why then do all the other sects,

00:56:33and all other Protestant developments,

00:56:36is it no longer the case?

00:56:38I mean,

00:56:38Why, if she is the mother of God,

00:56:40Therefore, she must be honored as such.

00:56:42TRUE?

00:56:42It recovers a fundamental element of Christology,

00:56:48because by recognizing her as the mother of God,

00:56:51It is recovering elements that put us back on the cross,

00:56:55TRUE?

00:56:56There's your mother,

00:56:57There is your son,

00:56:59And that son is me.

00:57:00And there is the element where Christ is the one who hands over the mother,

00:57:03No?

00:57:05Karl Barth also posits Mary's virginity as necessary to the mystery of the incarnate Son of God,

00:57:10But certainly here we would have to say that he argues about everything,

00:57:16I mean,

00:57:17This, then, is a biblical fact.

00:57:19No?

00:57:19virginity before childbirth,

00:57:22before childbirth,

00:57:23That's perfectly clear.

00:57:24even before they lived together,

00:57:26So there we have it, very clear.

00:57:30and affirms that without Mary's virginity there is no real salvation,

00:57:34These are elements that, well, there's not much to say about.

00:57:39I think it would generally be easy to deal with,

00:57:42But it's already there,

00:57:44I mean,

00:57:44It is an acknowledgment on the part of the Protestants,

00:57:48These are points from which we must continue walking and moving forward,

00:57:52to start resolving the things we don't have,

00:57:56No?

00:57:56And finally, we have this tremendous theologian, Max Turian,

00:58:01that writing that book almost got him kicked out of the congregation,

00:58:05I mean,

00:58:07He, with the statements he makes there,

00:58:10In fact, when I read it,

00:58:11I read it while I was doing my undergraduate degree in Rome.

00:58:14I thought he was a Catholic priest,

00:58:18based on what he writes,

00:58:20If you have the opportunity,

00:58:22It is also theology,

00:58:23No?

00:58:23I mean,

00:58:23all this,

00:58:25not always for those who lack a bit of philosophical and theological background,

00:58:30Well, it makes progress a little difficult,

00:58:32especially also based on biblical principles,

00:58:34No?

00:58:34But who,

00:58:35wants to take a dip there,

00:58:37I want to start scratching him,

00:58:39This book is also worthwhile.

00:58:41His book is called,

00:58:43Mary, the mother of my Lord,

00:58:45TRUE?

00:58:45It was written in 1963,

00:58:52He is a theologian, as I said, a Calvinist.

00:58:56And he says,

00:58:59in his book and in his theology,

00:59:01that Marian worship and liturgy,

00:59:03They have a biblical foundation,

00:59:05Okay,

00:59:07said by a Protestant,

00:59:10clear,

00:59:10of the churches,

00:59:12which are traditional,

00:59:13I mean,

00:59:13of the ancient churches,

00:59:14not of the Christians,

00:59:17who gather at Doña Pancha's house,

00:59:19TRUE?

00:59:20There, to read the scripture,

00:59:22and from the Bible,

00:59:23Well, you know,

00:59:23Well, that's what they're understanding there,

00:59:25TRUE?

00:59:25I mean,

00:59:25no,

00:59:26We simply cannot move forward with them.

00:59:28No?

00:59:30I want to read you a text,

00:59:32from a congress,

00:59:34is called,

00:59:35Faith and Order,

00:59:37that I know,

00:59:37It was carried out in Germany,

00:59:38in 1937,

00:59:41And I'm going to read you a text,

00:59:43which I find interesting,

00:59:44says,

00:59:50the appropriate place,

00:59:51to the Mother of God,

00:59:53has been considered,

00:59:54through this section,

00:59:56And everyone agrees,

00:59:57in affirming,

00:59:58that this,

00:59:59place,

01:00:00It has to be big,

01:00:01in esteem,

01:00:02of all Christians,

01:00:03There's no need to doubt,

01:00:07that God,

01:00:07He granted it to him,

01:00:08an honor,

01:00:09which he had never granted,

01:00:10to no human being,

01:00:11nor will he ever grant,

01:00:13that's why,

01:00:14Those who believe this about God,

01:00:16They truly cannot,

01:00:18decline,

01:00:18honor,

01:00:19that is due to him,

01:00:20that,

01:00:20which has been,

01:00:21so greatly honored,

01:00:23Protestant congress,

01:00:25so,

01:00:28we see that,

01:00:29There is progress,

01:00:30in 1937,

01:00:32I mean,

01:00:34the churches,

01:00:35the churches,

01:00:38which we call,

01:00:39formal churches,

01:00:40Protestants,

01:00:42well,

01:00:43They study,

01:00:43They reflect seriously,

01:00:46they question,

01:00:47and then,

01:00:48That allows,

01:00:49that the Holy Spirit,

01:00:50may it shed light,

01:00:51and see how it goes,

01:00:52great advances,

01:00:53as if to say,

01:00:54Hey,

01:00:54siblings,

01:00:55I think we need to put,

01:00:56an image of the Virgin,

01:00:58here in our temples,

01:01:01He deserves honor,

01:01:02There will be no shortage of those who say,

01:01:04No,

01:01:05But the images...

01:01:06Well,

01:01:07That's another issue.

01:01:07TRUE,

01:01:08but,

01:01:09So, how are we doing?

01:01:10to honor,

01:01:11to the mother of Jesus,

01:01:13as,

01:01:13how do you think,

01:01:14siblings,

01:01:15in this congregation,

01:01:16that we must honor,

01:01:17to the mother,

01:01:18well,

01:01:18let's see,

01:01:18They will have to start,

01:01:19to find a way to honor her,

01:01:21maybe with singing,

01:01:24come on,

01:01:25instead of being,

01:01:25nothing but praise,

01:01:26to Jesus Christ,

01:01:26What if we do,

01:01:27a praise,

01:01:28to the Mother of God,

01:01:30to the mother of Jesus,

01:01:31they notice,

01:01:32great advances,

01:01:33because we are here now,

01:01:35not at the level of an opinion,

01:01:36theological,

01:01:37by Max Turian,

01:01:38We're talking here,

01:01:39from a congress,

01:01:40of Protestants,

01:01:41where they,

01:01:44addressing the topic,

01:01:44of the Virgin,

01:01:45they say,

01:01:46siblings,

01:01:47I think that,

01:01:48We've exaggerated,

01:01:50And I'm going to say it like this,

01:01:51We haven't bathed him,

01:01:52we take from our lives,

01:01:55to the mother of Jesus Christ,

01:01:57And as we say,

01:01:58God has not given it to anyone,

01:01:59nor will he ever give it to him,

01:02:00the honor he gave her,

01:02:03and we,

01:02:04because we do not honor her,

01:02:05a strong question,

01:02:06certainly,

01:02:08all this,

01:02:09Imagine,

01:02:09which are the large machines,

01:02:11Imagine moving forward,

01:02:13a Protestant machine,

01:02:14which also,

01:02:15He has other interests,

01:02:17suddenly,

01:02:17economic interest,

01:02:19other churches,

01:02:20what they're doing,

01:02:21who disagree,

01:02:22who have no theology,

01:02:24in the end,

01:02:24It's not easy,

01:02:25because there is a lot of dispersion,

01:02:27It's easy to move forward,

01:02:28and well,

01:02:29also to Chilean media,

01:02:30advance in the Catholic Church,

01:02:31that there is more unity,

01:02:34there is more unity,

01:02:35right now,

01:02:37For example,

01:02:37with the Pope,

01:02:38which is not very controversial,

01:02:39many things,

01:02:40even those we're not used to,

01:02:42to flee from a Pope,

01:02:44Well, there are those who say,

01:02:45No,

01:02:45He's already lost his marbles.

01:02:46TRUE,

01:02:47I mean,

01:02:47This one's heading for the mountains,

01:02:49Now that it's out,

01:02:50his,

01:02:51his,

01:02:52his new encyclical,

01:02:54TRUE,

01:02:54Well,

01:02:54which is an apostolic exhortation,

01:02:56the one of,

01:02:57Letizia,

01:02:59Amoris Letizia,

01:03:02which deals with,

01:03:03in a wonderful way,

01:03:06the whole family issue,

01:03:08But, well,

01:03:09necessarily,

01:03:09There should have been,

01:03:10to discuss,

01:03:11the issue of irregular marriages,

01:03:14everyone,

01:03:15It focused on chapter 8,

01:03:17TRUE,

01:03:17Let's see what he says.

01:03:18Let's see if it didn't come out.

01:03:19now yes,

01:03:20now yes,

01:03:20the Protestants,

01:03:21They can now,

01:03:22say,

01:03:22the,

01:03:22what's it called,

01:03:23married people,

01:03:24in an irregular situation,

01:03:26They can now receive communion.

01:03:26He says some strong things,

01:03:31TRUE,

01:03:31which many people don't understand,

01:03:33I made a comment,

01:03:34It's on Facebook somewhere.

01:03:35and it's also there in me,

01:03:36on the page,

01:03:37Regarding chapter 8,

01:03:38of irregular marriages,

01:03:40they can receive communion,

01:03:42likely,

01:03:43What does it depend on?

01:03:44Well,

01:03:45He gives some there,

01:03:46some elements,

01:03:47that I said in my comment,

01:03:48I'm trying to explain,

01:03:49Because some say,

01:03:50because there is a phrase,

01:03:52which is what she has done,

01:03:53a bomb,

01:03:55says,

01:03:56There are some marriages,

01:03:58irregular,

01:03:59who do not live in mortal sin,

01:04:01Oh Carlitos,

01:04:02With that,

01:04:04strip,

01:04:05everything that came before,

01:04:07TRUE,

01:04:09so,

01:04:09Well,

01:04:10If you want to know a little more,

01:04:11about that,

01:04:11I don't waste time,

01:04:12There's the comment,

01:04:13so you know,

01:04:14Why the Pope,

01:04:16It doesn't come out,

01:04:17Because many say,

01:04:17already,

01:04:18the Pope,

01:04:18now yes,

01:04:19Who are we going to believe in?

01:04:20He already headed for the mountains,

01:04:21Here now, yes,

01:04:22No,

01:04:23What happens,

01:04:24It's because you don't know,

01:04:24right,

01:04:25and you don't know about pastoral care,

01:04:26and you don't know many things,

01:04:27Well,

01:04:28I'll explain it to you here,

01:04:29because,

01:04:30The first thing is,

01:04:32Some say,

01:04:33already all of them,

01:04:33all those who are married,

01:04:35in an irregular situation,

01:04:36They can now communicate,

01:04:37it isn't true,

01:04:37That's not what the Pope says.

01:04:38Furthermore,

01:04:39He doesn't even touch on the subject.

01:04:41of communion,

01:04:44brings up the topic,

01:04:44of the incorporation,

01:04:47of the,

01:04:48what's it called,

01:04:49of the,

01:04:49of the married ones,

01:04:50returned to,

01:04:51to marry,

01:04:52the incorporation,

01:04:53whose last moment,

01:04:55would be the incorporation,

01:04:57Eucharistic,

01:04:57But he,

01:04:58what it's about,

01:04:59says,

01:05:00This is the final step,

01:05:01and everything it deals with,

01:05:02It is from the incorporation,

01:05:04But of course,

01:05:05that when he tells you,

01:05:06not all marriages,

01:05:07irregular,

01:05:07They live in mortal sin,

01:05:09Imagine,

01:05:11that falls,

01:05:11all that,

01:05:13for many centuries,

01:05:14It had been said,

01:05:15and all exclusion,

01:05:16to the poor brothers,

01:05:17TRUE,

01:05:18plague victims,

01:05:19You can't go.

01:05:19You are excommunicated.

01:05:20You can't go to church,

01:05:22Well,

01:05:22terrible things,

01:05:23TRUE,

01:05:24and he mentions it,

01:05:25clearly,

01:05:25at the beginning,

01:05:25from that chapter 8,

01:05:27so,

01:05:28this,

01:05:29But it's chapter 8,

01:05:30I think there are 12.

01:05:34or 13 chapters,

01:05:35That's one,

01:05:35but,

01:05:37Nobody has read the others,

01:05:39As one commentator says,

01:05:41says,

01:05:42It seems that,

01:05:42What are they called?

01:05:44the journalists,

01:05:45They can't read,

01:05:47They just went to number 8,

01:05:48Let's see what he says.

01:05:49No, man.

01:05:49It is one of the encyclicals,

01:05:52that in my entire life,

01:05:54reading all the popes' letters,

01:05:55It is one of the most beautiful,

01:05:58that I have read,

01:05:59I had liked it very much,

01:06:00the family and it is a consortium,

01:06:02of John Paul II,

01:06:04beautiful,

01:06:05beautiful,

01:06:06this,

01:06:08He takes it away,

01:06:09street,

01:06:10besides,

01:06:11in the Pope's style,

01:06:13the warmth,

01:06:14the way he treats,

01:06:15the topics,

01:06:16of the family,

01:06:17Of course,

01:06:18It gathers a lot of information,

01:06:19of the synod,

01:06:20but,

01:06:21Don't miss it!

01:06:22and read it all,

01:06:24and those who have people,

01:06:25in an irregular situation,

01:06:27friends,

01:06:27cousins,

01:06:27etc,

01:06:28who are in an irregular situation,

01:06:31Read that one.

01:06:32But also read,

01:06:33the comment I made,

01:06:34so you can see,

01:06:35how it works,

01:06:36It is more oriented,

01:06:37My comment to the pastors,

01:06:39because they are the ones who ultimately,

01:06:40They're going to have to help.

01:06:41to discern all this,

01:06:43but,

01:06:44Well, there's a comment there.

01:06:45so that,

01:06:45also the one who says,

01:06:47It's that the Pope,

01:06:47He already headed for the mountains,

01:06:48No,

01:06:49Read this,

01:06:50so you can see,

01:06:51what is it really,

01:06:52the Pope is saying,

01:06:54So look,

01:06:55On one hand, we have

01:06:57that we have exaggerated,

01:06:59in certain things,

01:07:01but we also have,

01:07:02on the other hand,

01:07:03that the Protestants,

01:07:04They have also exaggerated,

01:07:05I mean,

01:07:05They brought out the Virgin Mary,

01:07:06I mean,

01:07:07just like that,

01:07:08out,

01:07:09Wait,

01:07:10Wait,

01:07:11If you too,

01:07:11They have a Marian tradition,

01:07:14Luther,

01:07:15Bar,

01:07:16and now Max Turian,

01:07:17Well, they're talking to us,

01:07:18of all this tradition,

01:07:19Why are you taking it out?

01:07:21Why do you cling on,

01:07:22in having outside,

01:07:23to the Virgin Mary,

01:07:24of your life,

01:07:25If she is the mother,

01:07:26of your Lord,

01:07:27if Jesus gave it to you,

01:07:28at the foot of the cross,

01:07:29And you are that disciple,

01:07:31If you are the disciple,

01:07:33that,

01:07:33who loves the Lord,

01:07:34who has followed him,

01:07:36For the Lord,

01:07:37He gives it to you,

01:07:38Take it home with you,

01:07:39You Protestant,

01:07:40Take Maria with you,

01:07:41to your house,

01:07:42because you are a disciple,

01:07:44of Jesus,

01:07:44just like the Catholic,

01:07:46He is a disciple of Jesus,

01:07:47Take it home with you,

01:07:48And as we just read,

01:07:50Therefore, she must be honored.

01:07:51I mean,

01:07:51We can't get her out,

01:07:53and say,

01:07:54Well, you're not playing.

01:07:55What do you mean you're not playing?

01:07:56I mean,

01:07:57If she is the mother of my Lord,

01:07:59so,

01:07:59there,

01:08:00We already have,

01:08:01quite a journey,

01:08:02that go through,

01:08:05It arrives then,

01:08:06this,

01:08:07in the end,

01:08:07our,

01:08:08our reflection,

01:08:10I hope I haven't confused you,

01:08:12or that in the end,

01:08:12are tearing their clothes,

01:08:14saying,

01:08:14Oh,

01:08:15I thought that,

01:08:16I don't know what,

01:08:17TRUE?

01:08:18So,

01:08:19I hope so,

01:08:20Let's focus a little,

01:08:22above all,

01:08:23when suddenly,

01:08:24we have dialogue,

01:08:25with,

01:08:25with the brothers,

01:08:27There is a lot of data,

01:08:28I hope they were able to take,

01:08:30notes on this,

01:08:31for,

01:08:32Because, well,

01:08:33at the moment,

01:08:35of the,

01:08:35of the discussion,

01:08:37or whatever,

01:08:38Well, you have to have it,

01:08:38some elements,

01:08:40TRUE?

01:08:40I mean,

01:08:41How to tell them,

01:08:41let's see,

01:08:42And you already saw the comment,

01:08:44of the Virgin of Luther,

01:08:45Luther,

01:08:47He wrote to her about the Virgin Mary,

01:08:48Yeah?

01:08:50Have you read any of his 80 sermons?

01:08:54This,

01:08:55No?

01:08:55Well,

01:08:55What do you think?

01:08:57If we start with that,

01:08:58TRUE?

01:08:59I mean,

01:08:59Do you know what he said?

01:09:01the conference,

01:09:02of,

01:09:03of Protestants,

01:09:04TRUE?

01:09:04That met,

01:09:06in 1937,

01:09:07and what conclusions they reach,

01:09:09on the subject of the Virgin Mary,

01:09:10Do you know that?

01:09:11No.

01:09:12Well,

01:09:13so,

01:09:13How do you start talking about things?

01:09:15that you don't know,

01:09:15No?

01:09:15So,

01:09:16already there,

01:09:17like what,

01:09:17Well,

01:09:17And we need to change the subject.

01:09:18because otherwise,

01:09:19The images are going to disappear.

01:09:20and to the Pope,

01:09:20and I don't know what story,

01:09:21TRUE?

01:09:21But,

01:09:22For now,

01:09:22around there,

01:09:23Stop,

01:09:23deer,

01:09:24TRUE?

01:09:25If you do not love the Virgin Mary,

01:09:26You're going to die twice,

01:09:28TRUE?

01:09:28So,

01:09:29had better,

01:09:30Besides, you have to die once.

01:09:33So,

01:09:33Well,

01:09:33well,

01:09:34This is as far as we go.

01:09:35our reflection,

01:09:36I hope I have given you a broad overview,

01:09:39what the problem is,

01:09:42and,

01:09:42well,

01:09:42she,

01:09:43What is our name?

01:09:45our conference,

01:09:46TRUE?

01:09:46She is the mother,

01:09:49of all the disciples,

01:09:50TRUE?

01:09:50Of all the disciples,

01:09:52He gave them to everyone,

01:09:54there is no,

01:09:55He didn't just give it to the Catholics,

01:09:56He also gave them to the Protestants,

01:09:58to everyone who considers himself a disciple of Jesus,

01:10:02has a mother,

01:10:03who is the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ,

01:10:05the Virgin Mary.

01:10:06So,

01:10:07around there,

01:10:07We now have a clear overview,

01:10:10I hope it will be instructive for you.

01:10:12for their families,

01:10:13and that it helps them continue to grow,

01:10:15in our relationship,

01:10:16with the Blessed Virgin Mary.

01:10:17Thank you!

01:10:18Thank you!

01:10:19Thank you!

01:10:20Thank you!

01:10:21Thank you!

01:10:22Thank you!

01:10:23Thank you!

01:10:24Thank you!

01:10:25Thank you!

01:10:26Thank you!

01:10:27Thank you!

01:10:28Thank you!

01:10:29Thank you!

01:10:30Thank you!

01:10:31Thank you!

01:10:32Thank you!

01:10:33Thank you!

01:10:34Thank you!

01:10:35Thank you!

01:10:36Thank you!

01:10:37Thank you!

01:10:38Thank you!

01:10:39Thank you!

7 - Madre de todos los discipulos

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