00:00French President Emmanuel Macron and U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth are among the world leaders,
00:05diplomats and top defense officials in Singapore this weekend for a security forum.
00:10The Shangri-La Dialogue is Asia's largest defense and security forum, the event to focus on China's
00:15growing assertiveness, the global impact of Russia's war in Ukraine and the flare-up of
00:19conflicts in Asia. Macron opening the conference with a keynote address that's expected to touch
00:25on all those issues, as well as Donald Trump's trade tariffs. Joining us on the set is Jafar
00:30Suryumangulo, an associate researcher at the Southeast Asia Center. Hello, and thank you for
00:36coming into Paris Direct. You've been following Macron's visit in the region, six days, three
00:43nations. What struck you about it so far? I think there are two important points from the visit.
00:49First, that he showed up in the regions. Not many European leaders. Actually, so far, I remember
00:56for the last two years, not even one single European leaders spent a whole week into three countries in
01:04Southeast Asia. So Macron is the first European leader that showed that it is important. The
01:10region is of course important, but maybe... The West has had its attention elsewhere these past few
01:16years. Or maybe they have more attention in the domestic politics. So of course, President Macron
01:21have also another important domestic politics, but he's willing to spend the whole week, and that is
01:28important for any leaders, spending a whole week into different regions. And that shows his commitment.
01:35The second point, I think, which is important, is to show to the Chinese that he's there.
01:42In many Chinese websites, news, President Macron is often a ridicule sort of thing, like the great
01:55salesman of France. Because it seems that France is only interested to sell arms, only contracting deals,
02:05minerals. So showing there in the regions that France has a backbone, at least.
02:14And how is that going over? Because we talk about assertive China, we talk about an uncertain Trump
02:20administration, France, and by de facto, the EU trying to appear steady and reliable in between the two.
02:27How has that gone over during his trip?
02:29Well, this is first commitment, isn't it? Showing commitment. So we will see, have to see how this
02:36commitment will realize. Of course, we have a lot of MOU 27 with Indonesia. There's a lot number of MOU.
02:44We will have to see how this is all going to be implemented. It will take time, of course. But it's already
02:51start. On his itinerary, two of the countries, Vietnam and Indonesia, Trump had slapped trade
02:58terrorists on them last month. Why do you think Macron singled out two of those countries to visit?
03:05I think it's not only to Indonesia and Vietnam, isn't it? It's also to Malaysia, to Singapore also,
03:11of course, to Cambodia as well. And last week, Prime Minister of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim, already suggested
03:21to have a common voice for the negotiation with U.S. Tarif. And all Asian leaders agree to have
03:28a single voice, at least not to hurt each other when they're going to have a bilateral negotiation with
03:34the U.S. So I think it's also a very promising step, even for ASEAN itself, in negotiation with the U.S.
03:41and France is there. France is there and Emmanuel Macron getting a special privilege today. He is
03:48becoming the first ever European leader to deliver the keynote speech at this Shangri-La Forum. What do
03:54you think he should use that platform to say? Well, first, of course, France have to show that,
04:00again, commitment to the regions in the terms of the context of strategic autonomy. Everybody
04:07understand. ASEAN leader is not new to this concept. Indonesian leader used to say the rowing between
04:12the rocks. So the idea of strategic economy is not new. How do you juggle commitment, though? Sorry to
04:21cut you off. How do you juggle commitment when you're dealing with certain governments that might have a
04:26poor human rights track record? How can you make it seem like we're here, we're a reliable partner,
04:31but at the same time being critical about things that might deserve criticism? Of course, also including
04:37ecological issues, not only human rights issues. There were a lot of things that the region is actually
04:43having a lot of problems. These things, of course, have to be deal people to people, government to
04:49government, and showing that President Macron is in the region, showing that actually Europe is watching.
04:57And so when we have this Shangri-La Defence Forum, one person that will be in the audience will be the
05:04Defence Secretary, the American Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth. Do you think America's relationship with this
05:13part of the world is completely unreliable now and that France can sort of step in and play a larger
05:20role? Well, we hope so. I mean, as an Indonesian, we also hope that we are not only depending on the US,
05:28as we already have so far, but we can also have another partner, which is France. And France's presence
05:35in the Indo-Pacific regions is shown. In January this year, we have a military exercise with France,
05:46isn't it? And that is already good. So being present, but also trying to strengthen these ties?
05:53Yes, of course. All right. Thank you so much, Jafar. Jafar Suryo-Mengolo,
05:57speaking to us there. Thank you. Thank you.
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