00:00Like any action, it depends on the intention here.
00:07See, caste census simply means collecting more data, authentic data,
00:12and data in itself is neither forward nor backward, good nor bad.
00:19It depends on what you want to, what you intend to do with the data.
00:23If you want to identify the marginalized groups in a better way
00:30so that more accurate and more efficient policymaking can happen,
00:36then it's a good step, a forward step.
00:41If you want to know how, let's say, even within the OBCs,
00:48the different subgroups are fearing now economically
00:52as a result of several decades of reservations,
00:57and you want to use that in a constructive way, the data,
01:01then it's a forward step.
01:03If you want to build hospitals, schools,
01:07and if you want to implement other kinds of welfare measures,
01:12affirmative, distributive, based on the caste data,
01:15then obviously it's a good thing, data empowers.
01:21On the other hand, if you will use this data to further cement caste identification,
01:29then obviously it's a step backward.
01:31If you will use this data for electoral gains
01:35by targeting particular caste groups concentrated in particular electorates or geographies,
01:43then obviously it's a backward thing.
01:46If you will say, you know, this kind of data has emerged,
01:50and therefore now this kind of emotional mobilization can happen,
01:56then that's a backward thing.
01:58All in all, since the last caste census happened in 1931,
02:04almost been 100 years now,
02:06it is prima facie good to obtain data,
02:11but the fears are justified.
02:14This data might not be put to positive or constructive use.
02:21That we have to guard against.
02:23Also, in your point of view,
02:25can a caste census help fulfill the vision of Dr. Amritskar or Mark Mofillian for that matter?
02:32See, obviously,
02:34it's a basic rule of any kinds of operations or processes.
02:40What is important is measured.
02:42That's the rule.
02:43What is important is measured.
02:45If you want to work on a patient's health,
02:49then don't you keep frequently measuring her vital parameters.
02:53The doctor says this kind of checkup every week and show me the reports.
02:58Those numbers have to be seen.
03:00Similarly,
03:01we will want to know how the marginalized groups have done in terms of education,
03:09in terms of prosperity,
03:11in terms of mobility,
03:13in terms of ownership of wealth,
03:16in terms of gender equality.
03:19We will want to know these things.
03:20So, this data should obviously go in that direction.
03:29But there are apprehensions.
03:31It might be misused.
03:33So, we have to be careful.
03:36Actually, it is because of the apprehensions
03:38that this much of halabu that we saw
03:41and on the entire political circus that we experienced,
03:44all that was there.
03:45Because one political side is trying to gain leverage at the cost of the other.
03:51And all this is mostly being played out
03:53as things in political chess.
03:57So, these are just moves.
03:59And the fear is that the targeted sections
04:04might not really benefit out of these moves
04:07and only the political parties might benefit.
04:10So, on that,
04:11there is a lot of debate
04:13and there is a lot of words that are being carried out
04:16saying that some are saying that caste census
04:18will further divide the society.
04:21Yeah.
04:22Or while others say it is essential for justice.
04:25What is your take between the two?
04:27See, it is not essential that it will divide the society.
04:32But given how things are,
04:33given how our leaders are,
04:35given how every bit of information or resource
04:40is put only to one kind of use,
04:42which is to accumulate more power,
04:43it is quite likely that this data will be misused.
04:49You see, if something is known about somebody,
04:52it is not automatically that that thing
04:56becomes that person's identity.
04:59So, the fears regarding identification,
05:02they are not something that will spontaneously
05:06or naturally or necessarily come true.
05:08But the problem happens
05:10when you start looking at a person
05:12only through this monochromatic lens of caste.
05:18Now I know your caste.
05:20Now I know the caste of your surroundings.
05:21Now I know how you have done
05:23or how you have numerically grown.
05:26So I will accord just one identity to you.
05:29And that identity is that of your caste or sub-caste
05:33or one or any other kind of divisive identity.
05:37Then that's a problem.
05:38Otherwise, data is just data.
05:41Data is a very neutral,
05:43very non-partisan, very secular thing.
05:46If I know which background
05:49the people in this hall, for example,
05:51where people are coming from,
05:52that does not necessarily imply
05:54that there is going to be
05:56a follow-up process of identification.
05:58But that might happen.
05:59That is likely to happen.
06:01And that is what we are saying
06:02that we must watch out against.
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