- 4 months ago
While underlining the need for a national caste count, former Union Minister Anbumani Ramadoss argued that state-level surveys were even more critical since every state had its own socio-economic realities.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, everyone. Good morning. Welcome to day two of the India Today Conclave South.
00:05And it's my pleasure to be sharing the stage here with so many luminaries that I think on an issue that's rocked both the North and South,
00:14national politics, the issue of caste enumeration. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining me here at the India Today Conclave.
00:21We've already, of course, introduced to all of our panelists. Mr. Raju, I'd like to begin with you.
00:26For an introduction first, your mic is on the left, sir.
00:30For an introduction first of why we need to be having this conversation.
00:35In the 21st century, why is caste census enumeration still such a big issue?
00:42What's with the C word right now in India?
00:45Since we are sitting in Tamil Nadu state, I just would like to take you to the history.
00:55In 1911, when in British India, caste census was conducted, it has come out that 3% of Brahmins are occupying 90% of government jobs in Tamil Nadu.
01:12So that has led to a social movement, gave birth to Justice Party in 1916.
01:20And in 1927, they brought out first time in the country, communal geo, which provide for reservation for Brahmins, for non-Brahmans, for Christians, for Anglo-Indians.
01:34First time, a policy was announced based on the caste census.
01:41You know what happened is, that policy continued till 1950.
01:46And in 1950, something interesting happened.
01:49Madras High Court has held that policy as unconstitutional.
01:55Then the first Prime Minister of India had to go for first amendment to the constitution to provide foundation to reservations for Schedule Caste, STs, and OBCs.
02:11What I am saying is, the data that has come out of the caste census has led to social reform, has led to laying foundation to the reservation policy in India.
02:25So the point that is important to note is, it is not just a rhetoric, the data that comes from the caste census will help the government to bring out policies, to bring equality in the society.
02:41As all of you know, our constitution is one of the best constitutions in the country in terms of providing equality.
02:49But that goal of equality is not yet accomplished, primarily because of the caste system.
02:57The caste system is stonewalling our path, our progress towards the equality.
03:02And thus, the wall that is blocking the progress is built by many bricks.
03:11Each brick represents mall distribution of assets by various communities.
03:17Unless you understand how the assets, opportunities, and power is distributed, you will not be able to really achieve the equality.
03:27That is why the caste census is important to realize our ultimate goal of achieving equality as envisioned in our constitution.
03:37The goal of equality, talking about caste, these are conversations we have had for decades.
03:42Dr. Ramados, I'd like to open this up to you as well, that ultimately, when we look at a caste enumeration, a caste census, will this ensure social justice?
03:51The fear is also that there's a lot of politicking over this, that this is reserved for politics, that they do this to gain for certain vote banks,
03:59and that it doesn't ultimately lead to social justice, because we've had these conversations.
04:04It's never really led to equality.
04:05You can't have social justice without data.
04:12And today's data is about 90 years old.
04:161931, during the British period, that was the last when they took a caste census.
04:23See, I'll just give you some data.
04:25Why we need a caste count today.
04:28It's just not only for the backward caste or the scheduled caste, even for the forward.
04:31I will justify that.
04:35See, in 2017, our Prime Minister had initiated a Rohini Commission, Justice Rohini Commission.
04:44For, within the OBCs, that's, we have 27% reservation for OBCs at the national level.
04:51What is the disparity within?
04:52There are 2,633 communities within the OBCs, out of which 10 communities take away 24.94% of the jobs and employment, or education.
05:06That's a reservation.
05:08You can say 25%.
05:09Then there are 38 communities, another 25% they take away.
05:13Then 102 communities, they take away another 25%.
05:16Then 506 communities, they take away 22.5%.
05:21So now you have 656 communities, they take away 97.5% of the jobs of the OBCs.
05:30And you have 1,977 communities, they vie for only 2.5% of the remaining.
05:39And irony is that you have 983 communities, they don't have even one job, one education, nothing.
05:45You don't have a reservation.
05:47So to offset this, you need a count at the national level and as a state level, as such.
05:54National level count is a macro count, according to me.
05:58But the more important is the state level count.
06:01We need all the state governments to take a count.
06:04And why?
06:06Each state has got its own criteria.
06:08For Bihar, they have done a caste census in 23, they have finished it.
06:13And they found out that in Bihar, 94 lakh households have a monthly earning of less than 6,000 rupees.
06:24It's just not only for reservation you need a discount.
06:26It is for your other welfare schemes.
06:30Reservation is only part of the affirmative action.
06:32So economic backwardness.
06:34Absolutely.
06:34Absolutely.
06:35To know the economic backwardness and to offset it.
06:39And then they found out that 67 lakh households in Bihar, families in Bihar didn't have a house.
06:45Telangana did a count.
06:47And they had 75 questions.
06:5056 primary questions and then 19 secondary questions.
06:54And they had an elaborate question hour.
06:55So all the households in Telangana, now you know that what community they come from, what is their status, what is their educational status, what is their economic status.
07:06And Tamil Nadu has a different issue.
07:09Tamil Nadu has got 69% reservation, unlike other parts of the country.
07:13And to save this 69% reservation, and we have this in the 9th schedule of the constitution, protected.
07:22But even then, there are cases in the Supreme Court.
07:24And the judges in the Supreme Court are asking, does Tamil Nadu have 69% of scheduled caste, scheduled tribes, OBCs and MBCs?
07:33So without a count today, we can't justify the 69% reservation.
07:37And in fact, Karnataka recently, they are going to take the second count.
07:43They took a count for the SEs, Supreme Court's ruling.
07:47And because of the count for the SEs recently, they gave internal reservation.
07:52They broke up the scheduled caste 17% into 6, 6 and 5.
07:56So, social justice is where you give more, when you say, reservations or affirmative actions to the needy, who have not got amongst the others.
08:10So, this is something where, so this is the justification, why we need a count at the macro level, at the national level, as well as at the micro level, at the state level.
08:20Because each state has got different problems.
08:22I want to focus a bit on the Telangana model here, because you also mentioned it, Dr. Ramdoss.
08:27Mr. Kanchayalaya, I'd like to talk about the Telangana model here.
08:31Because the reference that Dr. Ramdoss made about, you know, a caste enumeration and how it also establishes economic backwardness,
08:39that's always a concern point that's raised, sir, about whether this kind of enumeration will actually tell you about economic backwardness in some sections of the society.
08:48Telangana has actually done that.
08:49Well, I was the vice chairman of Telangana Caste Census, independent expert committee that government constituted after the survey was done.
09:07The vice presidential candidate now, Justice Sudarshan Reddy, was the president.
09:13Now, Telangana Caste Census is not just caste counting.
09:19It is called socio-economic, educational, political caste survey, because it can't do census, because it is not a national government under the Census Commission.
09:34Now, the final result of this, after we did what is known as composite backwardness index of all 242 castes and the groups ST, SC, OBC, and then Muslim OBC, and upper caste, general caste.
09:57Now, the concluding point I wrote in my vice presidential note in the report is,
10:05even today, individual welfarism is not going to work in India.
10:13It is a caste cultural welfarism.
10:15Now, that means, all the 242 castes, land is not the basis of development of those castes now.
10:30Now, education, mobility, and the employment that, both in the private and public sector, and more particularly, English medium education has come out as the central,
10:44even to the Adivasis, Dalis, OBCs, and upper caste.
10:49Now, one of the critical areas that Telangana caste census has thrown out is,
10:55see, there is this hypocrisy that the high elite caste, the upper caste, use caste and don't say that we use caste for our promotion.
11:07In Telangana caste census, they went to the court and got an interim direction that there should be a no caste column,
11:17a specific column was added in the manual, and you know, 3.4% people registered under that.
11:27In that, highest central government IPS officer, IAS officer, judicial positions, and highest English medium education is registered in that.
11:41Therefore, now, the caste census of Telangana model is not just counting caste,
11:47looking at the socio-economic, educational, and women status.
11:53We have looked at the total women status.
11:56Gender inequality is more striking than even the caste inequality,
12:03whether they are Brahmins or Dalis or Adivasis, within the hierarchy.
12:07We put all 342 castes in the ladder, where they exactly suit.
12:14The last point I would make is, as the caste hierarchy exists,
12:20untouchability to differentiation within the society,
12:24socio-economic, educational employment, differentiation still exists.
12:29Therefore, the nation has to go for similar model like Telangana,
12:34not just to remove inequalities, make Indian democracy really deeper and humanitarian.
12:42That is the point.
12:44Mr. Rakesh Sina, do you think so too?
12:46There is a Telangana model that needs to be emulated in a nationwide caste census?
12:51You know, there are three dimensions of the entire issue.
12:54The very important dimension is that caste census is essentially required for effective, affirmative actions.
13:05Because, you know, the sub-castes inside the OBC or civil castes, civil tribes,
13:11they remain deprived or rather I would call that they are internally colonized under the banner of social justice.
13:18So, elites of the particular caste, evolution of the elite class in a particular caste,
13:26they don't allow the other marginalized people to come up.
13:30They use as a political tool, as a social justice.
13:34Therefore, what I would give an example of Tamil Nadu,
13:38here the political system is based on the slogan of social justice,
13:42principle of social justice, so-called principle of social justice.
13:44Who stopped them for ending the discriminations?
13:50A left party has presented a memorandum, I am quoting a left party, I am not taking its name,
13:55that in 163 Tamil Nadu schools have caste discriminations.
14:02There are many villages where the tea stalls, there are two sets of glasses,
14:07one for civil caste, other for others.
14:08So, it is not the caste census, which has stopped eradicating that.
14:16So, while saying that, this is essentially required for the effective affirmative action,
14:21second dimension is that,
14:23in the post-independent India, we have all seen
14:27the difference between the pre-independent and post-independent.
14:31I am giving an example of M.G. Ranade.
14:34He was a Brahmin, but he started the social conference movement.
14:39Everybody would agree that it was a very progressive social movement.
14:43He organized conferences in South India, particularly South India and Western India.
14:48It has a very positive impact.
14:51So, the affirmative action and these things have not been complemented by the social actions.
14:57We are all dependent on the Indian state for eradicating the untouchability,
15:02eradicating the caste discrimination, eradicating the backwardness.
15:06It is not possible.
15:08No society could develop without these effective, positive, progressive social movements.
15:14So, in post-independent India, there is lack of such movements.
15:18This is one of the reasons that identity politics is increasing.
15:23Every caste is claiming, is there and becoming a stakeholder in a way.
15:29So, there are holes in the people of India.
15:32We are we the people of India.
15:34They want people.
15:35But there are many holes.
15:38The reason is politics.
15:40Third important dimension, which we must realize that,
15:45while we are doing caste census,
15:48it should be attached with the development projects.
15:52You know, for the first time, after 2014,
15:59everybody would agree that Prime Minister Modi targeted the marginalized people.
16:05When we call the marginalized people,
16:08mostly civil caste, civil tribe, OVC come in that purview.
16:12Even the poor Muslims, as Satchar committee pointed out,
16:15Muslims are very poor, lesser than Hindus.
16:18So, Christians, rural Christians, they come under that purview.
16:21Now, the way toilets is reaching to the homes of the poor people,
16:27when the farmers are getting every month something,
16:33if houses are being constructed for the poor people,
16:36they are working as a levelers.
16:40This does not decrease the effectiveness of our positive actions by the Indian state.
16:55So, you will realize that pre-2014 and post-2014,
17:00the slogan of social justice have lesser impact on the people whom they are addressing.
17:11Now, because of the development,
17:13Ayushman is used now.
17:15It's a very important.
17:18Jan Dhan scheme.
17:19Now, millions of people are now part of the banking system.
17:24So, I think that caste censors should be used
17:30for addressing those who are left out,
17:34despite our affirmative action.
17:36He rightly pointed out, he counted many castes.
17:39The landed aristocracy has developed.
17:41Elites have developed.
17:43They are not ready to give their shares
17:46to poorer people in their own caste.
17:49Last, but not least.
17:52You know, the entire social justice movement,
17:55you will realize,
17:56irrespective of states,
17:58North, South,
18:00North, East, or Western India,
18:02the social justice movement led by the people
18:05have concentrated their own caste,
18:08their own families.
18:11So, this social justice movement
18:13ultimately resulted into
18:15strengthening the dynastic politics,
18:18number one.
18:20Number two,
18:21inside the caste,
18:23internal colonization.
18:26Number three,
18:27they also try to create
18:29identity politics competing each other
18:33in a revengeful manner.
18:35That cannot do good to the nation.
18:38I think that development is our common target.
18:42Democracy is our mode of action.
18:46So, while strengthening the democratic principle,
18:50democratic practices,
18:51we must agree
18:53that social justice should not be,
18:56or in a way,
18:57caste censor should not be,
18:59reappropriated for political gains
19:02and political reasons.
19:04And check is the common consciousness of the people.
19:07Once the index of the people grows up,
19:10then this can be stopped.
19:12We need more Jai Prakash Narayan,
19:15more Vinoba Bhabe,
19:16more M.G. Rana Day.
19:18There are more politicians,
19:19less social action people.
19:21So, that should be complemented,
19:23I think.
19:24That is the real solution
19:25of the contemporary Indian crisis,
19:29which is centralized on the caste discrimination,
19:33caste politics,
19:34and social justice slogan.
19:36You've raised an important point,
19:38Mr. Sinha,
19:39and I'd like to bring in also
19:40Mr. Ramachandra Rao
19:41for his opening comments
19:42on how do we ensure
19:43this kind of a census,
19:45whether Telangana or nationwide,
19:48ensures affirmative action
19:50and not a further fracture.
19:51See, the caste issue as such
19:58in the entire nation
20:00is now being debated
20:02in several parts of the country.
20:05There are surveys going on.
20:06Karnataka, they did it.
20:08Then Telangana, they did it.
20:10Vice chairman is here only.
20:12And then throughout India now,
20:13caste census is now being
20:15included in general census.
20:19Historically speaking,
20:211931 was the last caste census
20:24done by the Britishers.
20:26And after that,
20:27it was not done.
20:29After that,
20:30the first time the caste census
20:31is going to be done
20:32in the Modi's government now.
20:34That is the idea.
20:35Then between many commissions came,
20:38Kelkar committees gave a report,
20:40and then Manmohan Singh,
20:41also during his time,
20:44the SCCC was done.
20:46The socio-economic caste census,
20:49they call it survey
20:50because they can't be called census.
20:52So, its survey was done
20:54throughout the country
20:55with around 5,000 crores
20:56being spent on that, basically.
20:58Now, what has happened
20:59to that report?
21:00What is happening
21:01to those database?
21:03We don't know exactly.
21:05Now, again,
21:06Telangana government
21:07has come up with
21:08this caste survey.
21:10Do you agree with that?
21:13No, I am coming to it.
21:15See, Telangana government
21:16has done,
21:17as Rakeshji has rightly mentioned,
21:19the caste survey
21:20has to be done
21:21for two purposes.
21:23One for identifying
21:24the beneficiaries
21:25for development,
21:26and another,
21:27the caste survey
21:28should be tool
21:29for social welfare,
21:31social justice.
21:32These are the two things,
21:33development
21:34and social justice.
21:35But in Telangana,
21:36unfortunately,
21:37it is being used
21:38for divisiveness
21:39and also
21:40for politicalization.
21:42These are the two things
21:42which you should understand.
21:44Caste survey
21:44has to be done
21:45only for the purpose
21:46of development
21:47and social justice,
21:48not for politicizing it.
21:50Here,
21:51you understand
21:51they are bringing
21:52this OBC factor,
21:54Muslims into
21:55the OBC factor,
21:56because this is
21:57OBC category.
22:00When the 4% reservation
22:01was given to Muslims,
22:03it was given
22:05for employment
22:06and education.
22:07That is Article 159.
22:08Article 154
22:09and 164
22:10under the Constitution
22:11of India
22:12is only for education
22:13and employment.
22:14What they have done,
22:15they have extended
22:16it to political
22:17reservation also.
22:19Now,
22:19they are doing
22:19the same thing
22:20in the 42%
22:21reservations
22:21in local body.
22:23Our case is that
22:24if you are really
22:25interested in
22:25uplifting the
22:26real BCs,
22:28why do you
22:29include other
22:30communities
22:30when they have
22:31their own
22:31reservations
22:33in BCBs
22:34they have
22:34and 10%
22:36of the
22:36EBC reservations
22:37which have
22:38been included,
22:39which have
22:39been bought
22:40by our
22:41Sri Narendra
22:42Modi ji.
22:43So,
22:43therefore,
22:44the Telangana
22:44survey,
22:45I don't agree
22:46it is a
22:47scientific study,
22:48a scientific way
22:49and it is only
22:50politicizing
22:51the entire
22:53social system.
22:54On the objection
22:55you have raised,
22:56both Mr. Sinha
22:56and Mr.
22:57I want to
22:57come.
22:58I just make
22:58one small
22:59point.
23:01The caste
23:01socio-economic
23:03educational
23:04census that
23:05if Suntar
23:06does tomorrow
23:07is not
23:08for the
23:09reservation
23:10question.
23:11I will give
23:11you one
23:12concrete example
23:13from Telangana
23:13caste survey.
23:15In Telangana
23:16caste survey,
23:18Iers and
23:18Iyengars
23:19registered as
23:21separate caste
23:22than
23:22Brahmins.
23:24And when
23:25we saw
23:25the employment,
23:27Iers and
23:28Iyengars
23:29growth is
23:29far longer
23:30than any
23:33other upper
23:33caste in
23:34Telangana.
23:36Then,
23:36you know,
23:36the convener
23:37of the
23:38expert committee
23:39is Praveen
23:40Chakravarti
23:40who is
23:41grandson of
23:42Rajgopalachari
23:44Chakravarti.
23:46And at
23:47the end
23:47I said
23:47jokerly,
23:49I am
23:49ideologically
23:50grandson of
23:51Periyar,
23:53your grandson
23:54of Rajgopalachari,
23:57and
23:58Periyar
23:59drove your
24:00people into
24:01English medium
24:02education,
24:03therefore even
24:04Telangana,
24:05you are
24:05grabbing all
24:06the jobs.
24:08So if
24:08SCST OBS
24:09is based
24:10on the
24:11survey,
24:12are given
24:12similar
24:14private sector
24:15kind of
24:15English medium
24:17education,
24:18we don't
24:18need reservation
24:19at all.
24:21Do that
24:21and
24:22caste
24:22survey
24:23will show
24:23a way
24:24out.
24:25When,
24:26take for
24:26example,
24:27the central
24:27government
24:27is opposing
24:28English medium
24:29in government
24:30sector,
24:31but promoting
24:32English medium
24:32in private
24:33sector.
24:34Now,
24:35this is the
24:35destructive
24:36education
24:37model.
24:37Caste
24:38survey
24:38will
24:38throughout
24:39all this
24:39bring out
24:40a new
24:41model of
24:42education
24:43equality
24:44of man
24:45and woman.
24:46That is
24:46the best
24:47point.
24:47The idea
24:47essentially
24:48of a
24:48census
24:48isn't
24:49necessarily
24:49what
24:49everyone
24:50assumes,
24:50which is
24:51reservation
24:51quota.
24:52You are
24:52talking about
24:52a lot
24:53more beyond
24:53that.
24:54that is
24:54only to
24:55blame.
24:56See,
24:58when,
24:58you know,
24:58one top
24:59leader asked
25:00me,
25:00why are you
25:00asking for
25:01reservation?
25:02This is begging.
25:03I said,
25:03when we don't
25:04have anything,
25:05we beg and
25:06leave.
25:07Once we have
25:08something,
25:08we will compete
25:09with you.
25:10If we don't
25:12beg,
25:12we will
25:12die.
25:13Today,
25:14Chalangana is
25:14asking for
25:1542% in
25:16local bodies.
25:17We have
25:17seen the
25:18political
25:19representation.
25:21Some
25:21castes did
25:22not even
25:23represent as
25:24serpents of
25:25the village.
25:26So,
25:26therefore,
25:27some reservation
25:27has to be
25:28provided now,
25:29not forever.
25:31Mr.
25:31Sina.
25:31Mr.
25:32Kanchan
25:32Elahia is
25:33depending on
25:34the old
25:34narrative that
25:35is now
25:36outdated.
25:37We
25:37experimented
25:38for seven,
25:39more than
25:39seven decades
25:40that narrative
25:41that resulted
25:42in the utter
25:43failure.
25:44You see,
25:45I told that
25:46how these
25:47social justice
25:48parties
25:48promoted the
25:49dynasty,
25:50how these
25:51social justice
25:52parties have
25:53created a
25:53discrimination
25:54inside the
25:55caste,
25:55how these
25:56social justice
25:57parties didn't
25:58allow their
25:58own marginalized
25:59caste to get
26:00political
26:01representation,
26:02bureaucratic
26:02representation.
26:04So,
26:04my view is
26:05that development
26:06is the
26:07panicker.
26:08You go with
26:09the reservation
26:09policy.
26:10It should
26:10be intact.
26:12There's no
26:12dilution.
26:14But unless
26:15until,
26:15as Narendra
26:16Modi model
26:17of development,
26:18reaching to
26:19the last
26:20man,
26:21and the
26:21policy of
26:22anti-odaya,
26:22what is
26:23anti-odaya?
26:23The last
26:24man,
26:24who are the
26:25last men?
26:26Last men
26:26are the
26:27caste people,
26:28caste tribe
26:29people.
26:30I am just
26:30giving an
26:30example,
26:31I adopted a
26:31village in
26:32Meghala and
26:32Kongthong,
26:34Kongthong,
26:35a whistling
26:35village.
26:36And in
26:37five years,
26:39I could
26:39create a
26:40situation of
26:41sustainable
26:41development.
26:43Once you
26:43create another
26:44village,
26:45I adopted in
26:45Bihar,
26:46Sujar,
26:46Mahadalit
26:47village.
26:47I am
26:48trying to
26:49create a
26:49sustainable
26:50development.
26:51When there
26:51is a
26:52sustainable
26:52development,
26:53you will
26:53find that
26:53more harmony
26:54in the
26:54society,
26:56number one.
26:56Second,
26:57with the
26:58interdependence
26:59growth,
27:00so you are
27:01trying to
27:01create a
27:02hegemonic
27:03order,
27:04from one
27:04hegemony to
27:05another
27:05hegemony,
27:06revengeful
27:07process of
27:08politics.
27:09That is not
27:09going to
27:10work.
27:10No, but
27:10Mr. Sina,
27:11also at the
27:12same time,
27:13are we
27:13suggesting that
27:13right now,
27:14today we have
27:15a level playing
27:15field already,
27:16even for
27:16development to
27:17seep through.
27:18You have to
27:18ensure it
27:19can reach
27:19that level.
27:20I am just
27:21telling that.
27:22You know,
27:22if you are
27:23not attending
27:24the primary
27:25schools,
27:25and there
27:26are no
27:26primary schools
27:26in the
27:27Dalit areas,
27:28you give
27:29the 100%
27:29reservation,
27:31they will
27:31not come.
27:32So give
27:32the primary
27:33institution,
27:34primary health
27:34center,
27:35primary education,
27:37and quality
27:37primary education,
27:39give the
27:39economic support
27:40scholarship to
27:41them,
27:42then they
27:42can enjoy
27:43the best
27:44facility of
27:45the positive
27:45discrimination
27:46or the
27:46affirmative action.
27:48Unless you
27:49go with the
27:49primary schools,
27:51health centers,
27:52economic advancement
27:53of the people,
27:54they will not be
27:55able,
27:55they would be
27:56just part of
27:57the political
27:57slogan and
27:58political
27:59polarization.
28:01So my
28:02purpose is to
28:03strengthen the
28:04with the people
28:05of India by
28:05affirmative action,
28:06not to create
28:07holes in the
28:08with the people,
28:09which some
28:10people try to
28:11create.
28:11in Tamil Nadu,
28:13who stop the
28:14government to
28:16reach to the
28:17school where
28:18there is a
28:18discrimination among
28:19the children on
28:20the basis of
28:20caste?
28:21Who stops
28:22them?
28:23There is no
28:24other party
28:25which can create
28:26problem with
28:27them?
28:28So I think
28:28that BJP is
28:29sending delegation
28:30in such areas.
28:32Now the
28:33water supply
28:34tank has
28:35some dirty
28:36things have
28:37been poured
28:38in the water
28:39supply tank in
28:40Tamil Nadu.
28:41The water
28:43is being
28:45supplied to
28:45the Dalit
28:46area.
28:47Then BJP
28:47is sending
28:48the delegation.
28:49So here
28:49social justice
28:50should not be
28:51a hollow
28:51slogan.
28:52Okay.
28:54I think both
28:54Mr. Raju
28:55and Dr.
28:56Ramadas want
28:56to make a
28:56point.
28:57Dr. Ramadas,
28:57go ahead.
28:58Are we
28:58reinforcing
28:59caste identities
29:01with the
29:01census, sir?
29:03See, if
29:04you don't
29:04like the
29:05word caste
29:05count, you
29:07can change
29:07it as a
29:07social count.
29:08Is that
29:10the same
29:11thing?
29:11You know, if
29:12you look at
29:12this and
29:13that.
29:13See, we
29:13need a
29:14household
29:14count,
29:15including a
29:16caste for
29:17reservation,
29:18and including
29:19all the other
29:19parameters for
29:20social welfare
29:21schemes or
29:22affirmative action
29:23like housing,
29:25loan for
29:25education,
29:26loan for
29:26employment,
29:27and all the
29:28other developmental
29:29schemes.
29:30See, social
29:31injustice has
29:32been brought
29:33about in the
29:33name of caste
29:34for the last
29:3520 centuries.
29:36To offset
29:38it, we
29:39need more
29:40data, where
29:41we are going
29:42wrong.
29:43Southern
29:43states are
29:45doing much
29:45better in
29:46the name of
29:46holistic
29:47development.
29:48Why?
29:48Because we
29:49have a
29:49robust reservation
29:51system here,
29:52which we
29:52fine-tune, keep
29:53fine-tuning it.
29:55And that is
29:55why, because
29:56we have more
29:57social justice
29:57here in
29:58southern states,
29:59you can say
30:00industry and
30:01all sorts of
30:02development.
30:03At the same
30:03time, there
30:05are the
30:05other sides
30:07where you
30:07politicize
30:08caste.
30:09But I
30:10could blame
30:11both the
30:12BJP as
30:13well as the
30:13Congress,
30:14or here in
30:14Tamil Nadu,
30:15the DMK as
30:16well as
30:16ADMK.
30:17But that's
30:17my point.
30:17They give
30:18their MLA
30:20seats, MP
30:20seats based
30:21on caste.
30:22They give
30:22their district
30:23secretaries
30:24based on
30:24the caste,
30:25predominant
30:25caste.
30:26But that's
30:26my point, Dr.
30:26Ramados, is
30:27that the reason
30:27that we have
30:28not seen
30:28change is
30:30perhaps because
30:31of politicians,
30:31because of
30:32political parties.
30:33there is a
30:33trust deficit
30:34that, look,
30:35even today,
30:36can we rely
30:37on these
30:38parties to
30:38ensure adequate
30:39policies are
30:40built upon
30:41to ensure
30:41social justice?
30:42That is the
30:43whole point.
30:44When you
30:44have a
30:45science-based,
30:46robust,
30:46modern data,
30:48you can
30:48definitely do
30:49development with
30:50the data.
30:51Development
30:51doesn't mean
30:51that you
30:52build fancy
30:53highways and
30:53bullet trains
30:54and malls
30:55and all
30:56that.
30:5784% of
30:58India's
30:58population are
30:59OBCs,
31:00SCs,
31:01STs.
31:01They have
31:02to develop.
31:03Once
31:03developed,
31:04then only
31:04India will
31:04be a
31:05developed
31:05country.
31:06Leaving them
31:07behind.
31:07One last
31:08question.
31:09Sir,
31:10can I?
31:10Yes.
31:11Just Mr.
31:12Raju quickly
31:12and then I
31:13give you a
31:13chance.
31:13Since time
31:14is up,
31:15I just
31:15would like
31:16to reiterate
31:17that what
31:20the cash
31:20census is
31:23going to
31:23do is
31:24to measure
31:25the mall
31:26distribution
31:27of assets
31:28among
31:30various
31:30costs,
31:31small
31:32distribution
31:33of
31:33opportunities,
31:35small
31:35distribution
31:36of
31:36power.
31:37This is
31:37something we
31:38need to
31:38really
31:39understand.
31:40That is
31:40what
31:40caste
31:41census is
31:42going to
31:42measure.
31:43Caste is
31:44a reality.
31:45Caste
31:45disparities is
31:47a reality.
31:48India is
31:49one of the
31:49most
31:50unequal
31:51societies
31:52on the
31:53planet.
31:53we need
31:54to
31:54understand
31:55these
31:56inequalities
31:57basically
31:58stem
31:58from
31:59the
32:00way
32:00the
32:00caste
32:01works.
32:02So the
32:02caste
32:02system
32:03will
32:03tell you
32:04how
32:05these
32:05inequalities
32:06are
32:06there,
32:07how
32:07various
32:07castes
32:08are
32:08suffering.
32:09It
32:09will
32:10give
32:10you
32:10a lot
32:10of
32:11data
32:11for
32:12you
32:12to
32:12plan
32:13programs,
32:15policies,
32:16legislations,
32:17so that
32:17there will be
32:18equality in
32:19the society.
32:19So we
32:20need to
32:20really
32:21look at
32:21caste
32:22census
32:22as a
32:23great
32:23opportunity
32:24for
32:24India
32:25to
32:25move
32:26towards
32:26equality.
32:27Don't
32:28look at
32:28it from
32:29the
32:29narrow
32:29perspective
32:30of
32:30reservations,
32:31narrow
32:32perspective
32:32of
32:32politics.
32:33Look
32:34at it
32:34as a
32:34great
32:35opportunity
32:35India
32:36is
32:36having
32:36to
32:37become
32:37an
32:38equal
32:38society.
32:39If
32:39done
32:39right.
32:40I
32:40think
32:40we
32:40wrap
32:41up
32:41this.
32:41Mr.
32:42Raham,
32:42apologies,
32:43but we
32:43have
32:43completely
32:43run
32:44out of
32:44time.
32:44If
32:45done
32:45right,
32:46the
32:46caste
32:46census
32:46perhaps
32:47provides
32:47that
32:47opportunity
32:48to
32:48address
32:49all
32:49of
32:49the
32:49issues
32:49that
32:50Mr.
32:50Raju
32:50also
32:51mentioned.
32:51We
32:51have
32:52run
32:52out
32:52of
32:52time.
32:52This
32:52is
32:53an
32:53issue
32:53that
32:53we
32:54can
32:54really
32:54dig
32:55deep
32:55into.
32:55I
32:55think
32:56we
32:56just
32:56began
32:56a
32:57very
32:57interesting
32:58conversation
32:58on
32:59caste
32:59enumeration.
32:59Thank you
33:00very much
33:00gentlemen
33:01for
33:01joining
33:01us
33:01here
33:02at
33:02the
33:02India
33:02Today
33:03Conclave.
Be the first to comment