00:00What I'm seeing from the front benches of both the government
00:03and the Tory press now is panic about reform.
00:07Like, and, you know, sort of various things that they're doing,
00:11but you sort of look at it and go, you're doing that
00:14because you think that might win, stop some people,
00:17win some voters back who are going to go to reform.
00:19So from your relaxed and thoughtful and considered position,
00:24what do you...
00:27What's your... Do you have any views on it?
00:29So firstly, I think it's important that you understand,
00:36or one understands, or political parties understand,
00:39what is cause and what is effect.
00:42Because if you try to calibrate your actions
00:48to respond to the existence of reform,
00:52or Nigel Farage getting headlines, which he's very, very good at.
00:55He's one of the best political communicators of our generation.
00:59And I've worked with some fantastic politicians.
01:03And he is a fantastic political communicator.
01:06He's never run anything.
01:07No.
01:08But in the job that he's got at the moment,
01:12he is, I suppose, as good an example
01:16of what an insurgent political party needs at its helm.
01:24OK, so we've got to recognise that.
01:26And dismissing him is an error.
01:27So...
01:27And we're going to raise his hand.
01:28And then we have to ham yes.
01:29And I believe that.
01:29And we're still...
01:30All right.
01:31And I'll be going to...
01:31So...
01:32And...
01:32We're still going to be...
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