00:00Mr. Rubenstein, your job at the State Department, as I understand, is not to form policy but
00:07to provide legal advice to Secretary Rubio and President Trump on their proposed policies.
00:13In your opening statement, you talked about working in a way that was lawful, about your
00:19faithful commitment to the Constitution.
00:22So can I just ask, do you commit to following the law, to advising against any policy or
00:28action that would violate federal law, if confirmed?
00:40I'm sorry, any action that would violate federal law?
00:43Any policy or action that would violate federal law.
00:47Doesn't seem like a difficult question.
00:54Thank you for that question, Ranking Member Shaheen.
00:58I commit to applying the law, working with my colleagues internally at the Department
01:04of State on more complex issues, the way that we did it before was to reach outside and
01:12consult with the Department of Justice and the Office of Legal Counsel, and providing
01:17our client with the best possible legal advice outlining various options and potential consequences
01:25of different courses of action.
01:27Well, again, let me ask if you can give me a yes or no question.
01:33Do you commit to following the law and to advising against policies or actions that
01:38would violate current federal law?
01:42Well, so I'm not sure it lends necessarily a yes or no answer, Senator.
01:47The law is a conversation.
01:48It's one of the great things about it.
01:51It's why it's been so interesting to me these 40 years.
01:54I'm married to an attorney for 56 years.
01:56I understand what you're saying, but that's...
02:00So when you say...
02:01But what I'm asking you is a yes or no question to this.
02:04But again, I mean, yes, the job of the federal government writ broadly is to follow the law.
02:13That is not a controversial proposition at all.
02:17The kind of where the rubber hits the road, though, is when you're looking at the margins,
02:23and particularly, I know this is of interest in talking with staff, talking with your staff,
02:29your questions about the relative legalities, for example, of certain separation of powers
02:34issues on matters that are likely to come up before the department.
02:38And there, it gets into a gray area.
02:41You end up into discussions about what the relative balance is between Congress, say,
02:46and the executive with respect to various powers.
02:49And often, there isn't an absolutely clear answer.
02:53So I'm not trying...
02:54Yes, the federal government...
02:55I take that as a no, actually, based on what you just said.
02:59And I have to say that that makes me concerned.
03:05And given some of your past online postings, for example, last year, you posted alleging
03:11that the Biden administration was engaged in a massive program to overthrow the Israeli
03:15government in the middle of a multi-front war.
03:18Do you really believe that?
03:20Well, I don't have the checks that were written.
03:24I do believe that there are sufficient facts to support that statement.
03:28We know that in 2015, actually, a committee of this Senate did a report on an outfit called
03:35One Voice.
03:36During the Obama administration, the State Department was running money to fund an anti-government
03:43operation inside of Israel.
03:45Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations did this work.
03:48The report was not acknowledged much in the United States, but it sure made an impact
03:53in Israel when it was issued.
03:56Many of the same people who were involved in the Obama administration's State Department
04:02came back under President Biden.
04:07And it appears to us, it appears to me, based on emails that I obtained through the Freedom
04:13of Information Act and that we read, that the same playbook was being run.
04:18We have emails, for example, from an American NGO, and all of this is public record, Senator.
04:23I invite you to read it.
04:24I can provide it.
04:25But we have emails from an American NGO.
04:26Oh, I have heard these conspiracy theories before, but I've been here through the Obama
04:33administration, through the first Trump administration, through the Biden administration, and I can
04:38tell you that I never heard anybody in any of those administrations talking about a multi-front
04:46war trying to overthrow the Israeli government.
04:49I don't believe it.
04:50And I hear you're saying that and trying to justify that as a conspiracy theory.
04:58And so I guess, what confidence can you give me, can you give this committee, that you
05:03can provide impartial, unbiased legal advice that's grounded in facts and the law?
05:11And so far, you're not convincing me.
05:14Well, Senator, with respect to the Senate report from the Permanent Subcommittee on
05:18Investigations, that wasn't, I didn't write that.
05:22That came out of this body.
05:24With respect to the emails that I read between these NGOs and Barbara Leaf, I didn't write
05:29those either.
05:30I just read them.
05:31And they say what they say.
05:33And perhaps they lend themselves to different interpretations.
05:35I'm willing to concede that.
05:37But I believe there was a good faith basis for what I said.
05:41Now with respect to my legal advice, there's a difference between advocacy and providing
05:46careful, you said you've been married to a lawyer for 56 years, there's a difference
05:51between advocacy and providing a client with careful, proper legal advice.
05:58The way that I have worked in private practice, the way that I worked in my last stint in
06:04government, the way that I work here is to, as I said, rigorously review the facts, learn
06:10as much as you can about the situation, apply the relevant authorities, consult with your
06:16colleagues, look for the subject matter experts at the Department of State.
06:20We are blessed, as I said, with some of the best international law experts in the world.
06:25To be able to draw on that knowledge, to consult with my colleagues at the Office of the Legal
06:30Counsel in the Department of Justice, and then provide the decision makers with the
06:34best possible legal advice.
06:36And that is what I will do.
06:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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