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Scambaiting - Wie Hacker internetbetrüger überlisten
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00:00Internet fraud.
00:02Every day people lose all their money like this.
00:06It can happen to anyone.
00:08By scanning the tags,
00:10I have triggered the payment.
00:13The 48,520 Fr.
00:16And once the money is gone,
00:18Often even the police can no longer help.
00:22Then she asked me if I really wanted to report it.
00:26Because they can't do anything anyway
00:28to international gangs.
00:30A global billion-dollar business
00:32with entire call centers
00:34full of deceitful scammers.
00:37Yes, hi, sir.
00:39My name is Carolina Fernandez.
00:41I am calling you from the Microsoft.
00:46But a group of clever YouTubers
00:48takes the problem into its own hands.
00:50So-called scambeters.
00:52One of them is Sven.
00:56I got many scammers arrested.
00:58And I saved thousands of people from losing money.
01:01He hacks into the computers
01:03from the criminal gangs.
01:05I got access to his computer.
01:08As a police officer I must say,
01:10not harmless, is it?
01:12I dive into the community
01:14and ask myself,
01:15what do the scambeters bring
01:17in the fight against internet fraud?
01:19I am a journalist in India.
01:29A country with many criminal call centers,
01:32cheating people around the world.
01:34But today I meet an Indian,
01:37who fights against these fraudsters
01:39and makes YouTube videos about it.
01:41A scambeter.
01:43He is an engineer by profession.
01:45In his free time
01:47He is often in New Delhi
01:49for his hobby on the scambeter.
01:51I'm meeting him here in a hotel.
01:55Hello?
01:57Yes, sir.
01:59Where are you?
02:01I am Camino.
02:03Okay, I'm waiting for you.
02:05Hi.
02:07And that's what Sven tells me.
02:09Are YouTube names.
02:11So...
02:13Why can't we show your face?
02:17I mean, it is...
02:19What I'm doing is also illegal.
02:21Like, on the paper,
02:22it is actually a crime, so...
02:24Using someone's computers
02:26without their permission
02:27is basically illegal.
02:31I work with law enforcement sometimes.
02:34Do the police know who you are?
02:36No, they don't know who I am.
02:39He tells me,
02:40that he has long
02:41a large call center observed,
02:43where he worked with the police
02:45wants to expose.
02:46He wants to
02:47make a crazy YouTube video
02:49and I'll be there in the next few months.
02:52We are baiting a Scammer
02:54to fall into a trap,
02:55so that we can get more information on them
02:57and then later provide it to the police,
03:00to get them to justice.
03:02That is the main objective of everything.
03:04It all started
03:06more than a year ago.
03:08Then he succeeded,
03:09into the system
03:10hacking into the call center
03:12and how to hack,
03:14he explains to me now.
03:16This is a fake.
03:18You go into Scammer's Computers,
03:19or?
03:20Mhm.
03:21How do you do that?
03:22So I pretend to be a victim.
03:24I show them that I have a lot of money.
03:26When they are desperate to try to get my money,
03:29then I get into their computers.
03:34First, Sven has to get in touch
03:36come with the scammers.
03:38For this he gives on all possible
03:40fake pages, e.g. on the page,
03:43that look like the news portal
03:45from the look at his data.
03:47He is waiting for calls from scammers
03:51or he calls them himself.
03:53Now he finds a number on a website,
03:57who pretends that if there are problems
03:59help with cryptocurrencies.
04:01I have a wallet on my computer
04:18and I can withdraw my money from the wallet
04:21send from the wallet.
04:24Can you help me?
04:26Yes, I will certainly do that.
04:29I'll just give a check.
04:33Sven acts as if he were the ideal victim
04:36for this scammer.
04:37An older woman with a lot of money
04:39and no idea about computers.
04:44And the scammer on the phone does this,
04:46which many scammers do.
04:47He wants Sven to install remote maintenance software.
04:51Supposedly to fix the problem.
04:54But in fact, a fraudster gets
04:56with this software access to his body.
04:58or, in other cases, to the bank account.
05:03I can trust you, right?
05:05Yes, ma'am.
05:06It is no different.
05:07They speak to the cryptocurrency.
05:11Sven now uses exactly this remote maintenance software,
05:14to hack into the fraudster's computer.
05:17And how exactly did he do that?
05:18And how exactly did he do that?
05:19And how exactly did he do that?
05:20And how exactly did he do that?
05:21And how exactly did he do that?
05:22And how exactly did he do that?
05:23And how exactly did he do that?
05:24And how exactly did he do that?
05:25And how exactly did he do that?
05:26And how exactly did he do that?
05:31And how exactly did he do that?
05:32And how exactly did he do that?
05:38And how exactly did he do that?
05:39And how exactly did he do that?
05:41And how exactly did he do that?
06:10Hooking is just the beginning of fighting crime.
06:19Then comes the observation.
06:22And there is the computer he just hacked,
06:27not interesting enough.
06:29It's a small call center with three or four scammers.
06:33He doesn't explain to me the effort it takes for him.
06:36But the call center he hacked into long ago,
06:39is a completely different matter.
06:42Around 50 fraudsters are employed there.
06:47By the way, they earn more than he, who is an engineer,
06:50he tells me.
06:53I meet him again that night at a hotel in New Delhi.
06:57He collects information all the time
06:59about the large call center for the police and his latest video.
07:04With access to this call center computer
07:07he can see and hear everything,
07:10what the scammers put there.
07:12Yes, sir, can you hear me?
07:14I can hear you, yes.
07:16Is this how you have dinner at home sometimes?
07:19Yeah, I liked this one earlier.
07:22Let's see the scammer.
07:24And he records all of this too.
07:26If he is there live and notices,
07:29that a victim is about to lose money,
07:32he intervenes.
07:35Exactly the kind of rescue mission that his fans love so much on YouTube,
07:38he wants to try to do now.
07:40We follow a conversation between fraudster and victim,
07:43which has been going on for hours.
07:45Sven briefly explains to me what happened before I arrived.
07:49The victim has surfed the Internet
07:51get a fake error message,
07:53roughly in this style.
07:55Your computer alerted us
07:57that it was infected with malicious Trojans.
08:00No no no.
08:03These people, their credit card details,
08:04Facebook logins
08:06as well as personal and private data
08:08via remote IP addresses to employees.
08:10Many scammers resort to this nasty scam.
08:14First shock the victim and then pretend
08:16as if they were the only ones who could help.
08:18OK.
08:21This fraudster that was just said,
08:22sounds like he's from Microsoft support.
08:27He tells his victim in America,
08:29his bank details had been stolen,
08:31he should immediately withdraw all his money from the bank
08:33and bring them to safety.
08:35Okay, I'm in my car.
08:37Okay, and how?
08:39$4,000 in cash.
08:41That's great, that's great.
08:43He plays billiards and tells the man,
08:45he should now go to the bank,
08:47the bank details, the bank details, the bank details,
08:49the bank details, the bank details, the bank details,
08:51with these $12,000 gift cards,
08:54in a hardware store.
08:56This is how he gets the victim’s money anonymously,
08:59Sven explains to me, i.e. money laundering.
09:02But it shouldn't come to that.
09:04Sven sees on the screen of the fraudster,
09:06which hardware store it refers to.
09:08which hardware store is meant.
09:11Okay, I'm going to call the store.
09:18Thanks for calling the Grand Rapids Home Depot.
09:21This call may be recorded.
09:23Tell me how I can help.
09:25Need to talk to the manager.
09:27Thank you for calling the Grand Rapids Home Depot.
09:29Hello, this is Kim. How can I help you?
09:30Yeah, hello ma'am.
09:31My name is Sven,
09:32and I'm calling you regarding a scam that is happening right now.
09:36There is this person who is about to come to your store
09:38and buy gift cards around like 12,000 dollars or something.
09:42We will take care of it.
09:43Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.
09:44Thank you so much.
09:46The fraudster’s strategy is perfidious.
09:48He puts the man under pressure and stress.
09:51He seems to think without thinking,
09:53to do what the fraudster demands of him.
09:55You are on the phone constantly.
09:57Oh, okay, okay, okay.
09:59Alright, okay.
10:00Cody, I'm entering the building now.
10:02I'm looking for 12'1'000 dollar gift cards.
10:05OK.
10:07Get ready, get ready, please.
10:09Don't give them the gift cards.
10:11Don't give them the gift cards, please.
10:13So, nothing we can do in store.
10:15You can go online, people.com.
10:18It's hard to start like that.
10:20Lucky.
10:22The hardware store does not issue gift cards.
10:24And we see,
10:25that the cheater just keeps playing billiards.
10:28I can see the tension in him.
10:31Feeling as tense as I am.
10:33Because he wants that money very desperately.
10:35So, he won the match.
10:37Wow, congratulations.
10:39But do you think he's going to win this match?
10:42No.
10:43What I'm watching.
10:45Okay, he's going to send him to another Home Depot.
10:48But Sven sees the victim’s phone number.
10:51And now he has the right moment,
10:53to call the man and warn him.
10:56Like, you actually found a pop-up on your computer screen.
11:01You ended up calling that number and someone pretending to be Microsoft answered the call,
11:05right?
11:06Yeah, sir.
11:07That is a fake pop-up, sir.
11:08There's nothing wrong with your computer.
11:10It just...
11:10If you just restart your computer, everything should be fine.
11:13They actually tried to manipulate you to steal their... steal your money.
11:16Oh, hello.
11:17Hello.
11:19OK.
11:19I...
11:20OK.
11:21Well, I thank you so much.
11:21Yeah.
11:23So that would have killed me at $12,000 out of there.
11:26I had a great day. Bye Bye.
11:29You do the same. Bye-bye.
11:32It's night, dude.
11:33Wow, that was really crazy.
11:37You see his happiness, right?
11:39You saved me at the neck of the time.
11:40Neck of the moment.
11:42Yeah.
11:42That is why I do this.
11:45You ask me why I do this, this is why I do this.
11:47I notice that it makes him incredibly proud and happy that he has seen the man in front of a
11:53financial ruin.
11:55But Sven also tells me that he is not always successful because sometimes the victims believe
12:06their scammers so mega tight that he has to watch them lose their money, even though he
12:11warned.
12:12Internet fraudsters around the world are becoming increasingly sophisticated.
12:18In Switzerland, people lose tens of millions of francs every year and I am on
12:24the way to a victim.
12:26Katya.
12:27She is 32 and doesn't want us to show her face.
12:32You contacted us.
12:35Why do you want to tell your story?
12:37My very first reaction was that I didn't want to tell anyone.
12:42Because it is, you are ashamed.
12:46My closest circle of friends motivated me to bring it to the outside world.
12:52That I can prevent other people from doing this if possible.
12:56The scam of her scammer was very similar to that of this American.
13:01He pretended to be an employee of the Zurich Cantonal Bank and presented them with an invented problem
13:08shocked.
13:09Attackers used a Trojan to gain access to your e-banking app.
13:14Then you have several tens of thousands of francs that could potentially be lost.
13:23And that's what's scary.
13:25And then you start cooperating with them.
13:28And they make you feel like it has to go fast.
13:30Under this stress, she was persuaded to install remote maintenance software
13:36and scan a QR code.
13:39By scanning the tags, I triggered the payment.
13:44The 48,520 francs.
13:47The whole time she also walked with her brother.
13:50But the decisive WhatsApp from him comes late.
13:53Never.
13:54This is fake.
13:55Don't do that.
13:56And then the guy I still had on the phone, the scammer, really loudly
14:02laughed out.
14:03The laughter, um, I can still hear it today.
14:08And that was also the reason why I couldn't sleep for several nights afterwards.
14:15Katja immediately calls her bank.
14:18There's nothing we can do about it.
14:20And then it really felt like the ground beneath my feet was slipping away
14:26is pulled.
14:27Disillusionment also among the police.
14:30Then she asked me if I really wanted to report it, because they can
14:36do nothing to international gangs.
14:38Meanwhile, the public prosecutor’s office is on the case, but Katja does not believe that she
14:45ever get their money back.
14:47I show her YouTube videos from scam artist Sven, who warns victims just in time.
14:54I would like to know what she thinks about this.
14:57He's also doing something illegal by hacking.
15:00And Katja is a lawyer.
15:03I am of the clear opinion that you have to meet them at eye level and with the same
15:10Tools to act against them in the same way that they act against the civilian population.
15:16And if that involves hacking into it, I'm fine with that.
15:20In fact, with our restrictive regulations we protect the perpetrators because all their rights
15:27wants to protect against actions and so on.
15:32I feel Katja’s helplessness and anger and I understand that she is
15:42want to wipe out.
15:43And it is precisely these feelings of the victims that motivate the scammer Sven.
15:49I'm on my way to his house.
15:51Today we want to talk about YouTube.
15:53Videos on YouTube are particularly popular when scam artists are hacked and
16:02revenge.
16:03Annoy, hinder, and sometimes even humiliate them with pranks or absurd phone calls.
16:09And when viewers see the scammers’ reactions via the hacked surveillance cameras
16:15also see.
16:16This means that fraudsters are suddenly no longer anonymous, but vulnerable in public.
16:28We watch one of the most popular Scambet videos.
16:31The scammer knows the real names of the call center employees.
16:36Yes, hi sir, my name is Carolina Fernandes.
16:43I am calling you from the Microsoft.
16:45Oh, hi Priya.
16:46Hi.
16:47Who are you?
16:48I'm a ghost.
16:49That was one of the masterpieces, I would say.
16:51Who is beside me?
16:53I think that's Mimi.
16:56Everyone, everything is panicking over there now.
17:09It feels like I've taken some revenge for the victims.
17:12These guys do the same thing, they fool them, they scare them sometimes.
17:17Schadenfreude clicks well.
17:19Especially risky videos where scammers go directly to the scene are worth it.
17:23For this video, which has been viewed more than 100 million times,
17:27when scambeters were lying in a call center frema.
17:32But scammers in the call center got wind of this scheme.
17:37This is the Scammer Group.
17:39You know, see how many people are there.
17:4155,760 people.
17:42Oh my god.
17:44So they have notified everyone.
17:46It's a very, very important message.
17:48Two of us in the town of Kolkata have seen Trilogy people.
17:52Be safe and close the centers.
17:54Wherever you see them, shoot them.
17:56They're not joking. They were shocked.
17:59They have fucking guns.
18:04I wonder
18:06Do these scammers really have to take so many risks for their YouTube videos?
18:10I mean, things like that might look cool,
18:13but at least they are not dealing with criminal gangs.
18:17What does your family do?
18:19They kind of don't understand what I do.
18:23Sven tells me he wants more than dramatic and funny content for YouTube.
18:28He is ashamed that so many internet fraudsters come from his home country India
18:33and he wants to do something about it,
18:35namely putting the fraudsters in prison.
18:39I was shocked that there are large call centers in India.
18:44Big, big call centers.
18:46One with three flutes, four flutes, full of scammers.
18:49Everyone is scamming.
18:50What the hell is the government doing without responding?
18:53I was so angry.
18:55What exactly the Indian government is doing and how successful they are at it,
19:00I wanted to know too.
19:01That’s why I asked the Federal Police,
19:04but despite several attempts, I didn't get an answer.
19:07In the end, a media spokesperson at the Foreign Ministry said this.
19:11On the call center issue, we take all these things very seriously.
19:16We have agencies here who are looking into this matter.
19:21We have strong cooperation with their international partners as well.
19:24Our law enforcement agencies have been taking strong and swift action against the culprits.
19:32He didn't get much more specific at the press conference.
19:36Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
19:38Prosecuting internet fraudsters is extremely difficult.
19:43The clearance rate is low and even fewer are convicted.
19:47Not only in India, but worldwide.
19:50If victims and perpetrators live in different countries,
19:53Several authorities have to get involved to make anything happen.
19:57And in the end, the police often simply have too little evidence against the perpetrators.
20:02This is exactly where Sven wants to sit.
20:08About the call center, which previously cost the American almost $12,000,
20:13He has been collecting information for two whole years now.
20:17In a precise location.
20:20The names of the boss and all employees.
20:23Screenshots of WhatsApp chats.
20:25Our money laundering is discussed through channels around the world.
20:29Et cetera, et cetera.
20:32Sven passed this information on to various police officers.
20:36And he has long hoped that they will finally raid the Co-Center
20:41and secure evidence.
20:43He says this should have happened today.
20:47A police officer would have promised him that.
20:49That's why I'm here with him.
20:52Yesterday, I contacted him three times.
20:54He answered two times.
20:56Then again, he's like...
20:58Literally, I contacted him how many times you see.
21:00Sir, please go back.
21:02No answer.
21:05But nothing happens.
21:08I want some response from you.
21:10Some accountability.
21:11That, yeah, we are listening to you.
21:14We will get to your problem.
21:15We will look into your case.
21:17The whole point of doing this thing is like helping some victims in other country
21:21and then saving my country from all this bullshit.
21:23These guys are literally...
21:26A single day, they earn more than $80,000.
21:29Complete call center.
21:31Call centers are popping up like every day.
21:33It is happening.
21:35The police have to do something.
21:37It is a crime.
21:38You are not supposed to impersonate anyone.
21:40You are not supposed to scam anyone.
21:41You are literally money laundering.
21:45I don't understand now.
21:47This is really frustrating.
21:48Now I...
21:49I don't know what to do.
21:51Literally, I gave every evidence.
21:54I wonder how the police in Switzerland
21:57would react to such an information dossier from a scambeter.
22:00That's why I'm on my way to Bern.
22:04I'm meeting an investigator from the cantonal police there today.
22:11Hello!
22:12Hello!
22:13Roger.
22:14Roger, Anne-Sophie, I'm glad.
22:15I'm pleased.
22:16And you have a lot to do now because of this online fraud.
22:19That's a bit busy.
22:21Yes.
22:22Is this generally increasing?
22:25You can say that, yes.
22:26The trends...
22:27...rising.
22:28...are still suffering more and more, yes.
22:29That would be the video.
22:30Now to the topic of scambeters.
22:36It is about people who actively collect evidence
22:40against perpetration.
22:42And sometimes even act illegally.
22:45In other words, hacking, filming, etc. yourself.
22:49Simply all the things we would like to do
22:51and are not actually allowed by law.
22:53Or?
22:54If such data is then made available to us.
22:57Or?
22:58The opinion is then that you don't necessarily need that.
23:01But based on this information we can then investigate further.
23:05Would that help then?
23:06It would definitely help.
23:08Or?
23:09But as I said, if there are also criminal offenses there,
23:12by the people who made it,
23:14then we must not ignore it.
23:16In other words, we will not only investigate perpetrators,
23:19but also, under certain circumstances, about the criminal offenses,
23:22which were made by this person.
23:25I show him YouTube videos of Sven
23:28and tell him about his information,
23:30which he collects via call centers and sends to the police.
23:37As a police officer, I have to say, it's not without cause.
23:40Basically, I am of the opinion
23:42is the investigation or enforcement of the law,
23:48of the law is the responsibility of the police
23:50and not any private individuals.
23:53With such individual actions, even if they are well-intentioned,
23:57you can also see ongoing police actions,
23:59where people certainly don’t know anything about it,
24:02also endanger by scaring off the perpetrators
24:04and, under certain circumstances, measures, treasury and evidence may be destroyed.
24:09In this fraud segment, the call centers, the entire infrastructure,
24:14It is really entrepreneurial and very professionally structured.
24:17So they really work there in a real company.
24:21Victims are advised to go to the police.
24:25These will then be traces of the victims’ mobile phones or computers
24:29and the time factor plays a big role.
24:33It is important, if you want to do something about it,
24:37then you have to go to the police very quickly.
24:39Even if the clearance rate is low.
24:41With the fact that you might just pass by,
24:45you are making an important contribution to
24:47that this will also change and that there may be more consequences in the future.
24:51I am convinced of that.
24:53Because maybe, he says, that’s exactly when you’ll give the police the clue,
24:59which they still lack to find the perpetrator.
25:05The conversation leaves me thoughtful.
25:07But I understand why the policeman here in Bern
25:11would not cooperate with Scambeter.
25:13In India, however, the police do not seem to have any fundamental concerns,
25:17to work with Sven.
25:19At least if he's persistent enough.
25:23After two years of collecting information,
25:25The rat in this call center should now finally take place.
25:29He wants to share this moment with his fans live on YouTube.
25:33That's why he streams the call center's surveillance camera.
25:37For hours.
25:39I hope the scammers don't see my live stream right now.
25:42If they actually end up seeing this,
25:44they'll straight away run away immediately,
25:46even before the police come there.
25:48Holy shit!
25:53They're watching my video, they're watching my video.
25:58I need to end the stream.
25:59What?
26:04Now he has been sitting at the call center for so long, so long
26:09and now the police are on their way and...
26:15Okay guys, I'm sorry, I'm back.
26:18Yes, they caught us.
26:20It's my mistake.
26:21I shouldn't have actually streamed this one today.
26:24He has lost access to the surveillance cameras.
26:27He later learns that carers had turned them off in a panic.
26:32But, because Sven would have quickly informed the police,
26:36say the policemen just in time to go home.
26:39Guys, I do have a good news.
26:41The center got raided.
26:42They didn't escape.
26:44Oh my god, this is crazy.
26:46Thanks for sticking around. Bye bye guys.
26:48Bye.
26:49Bye.
26:51The police said shortly afterwards in the evening,
26:5343 fraudsters were arrested.
26:56Here they pose with them.
26:58With confiscated laptops and other evidence.
27:02But is that enough for a conviction?
27:05Most of the time, says Sven,
27:08the fraudsters are released again.
27:11Because the police have too little evidence and the evidence illegally collected by scammers is not admissible in court.
27:19Hello Sven, how are you feeling?
27:21How are you feeling?
27:22In the...
27:23In the...
27:24I don't know if they are speechless.
27:26Even if they are locked up and they come out of the jail,
27:29it's going to take them at least 2-3 months for all this trauma to go away.
27:35They'll be really scared, bro.
27:36Like literally, bro, you've got police on your head.
27:38I'm going to eat now.
27:40Alright, bye-bye.
27:42Bye Bye.
27:43Bye, have a good night.
27:44So, now back to my original question.
27:47What do scambaters contribute to the fight against internet fraud?
27:51For a single victim it obviously has a huge impact,
27:54when a scambater saves you from losing money just in time.
27:58And cooperation with the police can also be helpful.
28:02Prank videos and such things, I would say, are more just entertaining
28:06and they can even encourage police action if the fraudsters realize
28:10that they were discovered and then ran away.
28:14Glenn Renkler
28:15W slash solver