00:00Nothing is being burnt. No Parali is being burnt. No water is being put into any pond or any lake or any river.
00:07The blame game happens between political parties.
00:10The Delhi government says that the UP government is polluting the river and so forth.
00:16The issue of Parali is an issue that has come up in the last 5, 10, 15 years.
00:20It was not there before because we had animals that used to have this as their feed and fodder.
00:25Hello and welcome to another episode of One India Special Series.
00:33I am your host Arushi Ranjan and today we have a truly inspiring guest with us, Mr. Ajit Kumar.
00:41As the founder of Khushikra, a social and green platform, he aims to create sustainable and
00:47satisfying livelihoods in villages and small cities by integrating innovative practices.
00:54With his wealth of experience and deep-rooted commitment to the sustainable development goals,
01:01today we will explore his vision on the severe AQI level of Delhi which is considered very poor
01:08right now. Mr. Ajit, thank you so much for joining us on One India. Thank you.
01:15Okay, so as somebody who is deeply involved in sustainable development,
01:21how do you personally view the current air quality situation in Delhi?
01:26And I would also like to know that what concerns you the most?
01:31See, last few days have been bad but the worst is yet to come. So, this is a fact we all know
01:37and understand. So, we have to be ready for the worst now. Grab 2 is already there in place.
01:44I think next stages will come soon. So, we have to be prepared for this. We should have been
01:50prepared for this better because last year also we spoke a lot. Same situation. So, we are quite
01:59late actually. We are running late like you know you miss the train and you are at some other
02:04station and train is at 3-4 stations ahead. So, how to reach that station? So, it's that kind of
02:09situation. So, it's like disaster management, flight should come, special plane should come
02:15and take you to the third station so that you catch the train. So, it's like that basically.
02:21And what concerns you the most about this situation in Delhi?
02:25Situation is that when you come out of your vehicles or like if you are in a car or something,
02:30it's still okay. Though somewhere or the other, the air also still comes into the car but still
02:36like it's not, it's manageable. But when you are on a two-wheeler, when you are walking,
02:42when you are cycling, which is the cycling or the walking is the most like most eco-friendly mode of
02:48transport or travel, then you are really choked. You can't breathe, you can't because last 3-4
02:54days, I tried to use the minimum footprint vehicles or the modes of transport, mostly
03:00metros and connecting through bikes or cycles and other things. But last 3-4 days, it was really
03:07like I had a very, very tough time. I was just thinking and then washing my face and trying to
03:14see how we can take out the pollution that has entered in my body. So, it's very, very tough and
03:20severe headache and a lot of other problems. And these are like just start because you are there
03:24on the road for just 20-15-20 minutes and then you enter some place. Then again, you are on the road.
03:29If someone is on the road for say hours, it's really very, very tough. Lot of diseases and then
03:36it depends on immunity. But immunity, how much immunity can anyone have or how much immunity
03:42can save you, where everywhere you have dissolved greenhouse gases around you.
03:49So, it's really very tough actually. Yes, it's very difficult to survive in this
03:55kind of polluted here. Sir, you work with very rural people, you go to rural places.
04:03So, I would like to know how does poor air quality in urban areas like Delhi affects
04:10the livelihoods of individuals, particularly in rural and semi-urban communities that you work
04:16with? See, every problem is interlinked. So, it basically depends like if someone is
04:25who are in say Delhi, that will also increase poverty in other places. So, it's interlinked.
04:37I mean to say that if someone has a paying capacity, someone is working in Delhi and
04:42someone doesn't work, that person falls sick. Then that affects his paying purchasing capacity.
04:49And if that person is purchasing from villages, maybe fruits, maybe vegetables,
04:54maybe other things, then it becomes very difficult in that case. So, they can't buy much.
05:00So, that way the livelihood of the rural people is affected. Similarly, the good things that rural
05:04people make, maybe handicrafts, maybe some pottery and other items, that also they don't
05:11buy or they will buy less. So, that definitely affects their livelihood. And so, it's like
05:17everything is interlinked, environment, health, livelihood, everything.
05:22Yes, definitely.
05:23Water quality, all this. So, that is the linkages we should understand. Actually,
05:29in our education system in India earlier, the kind of education system we had, and now the new
05:35education policy emphasizes that kind of education system where things that are interlinked are
05:42understood well, interdisciplinary things are understood well. Everything is linked. It's not
05:47like physics or physics is not related to chemistry, chemistry is not related to biology,
05:51and all these are not related to economics and history and other things. Everything is
05:56interrelated. So, we have to understand this. It has to be like a mix of basic understanding of
06:04everything has to be there with everyone. Then only we can live a good life and give
06:09the nature, the world around us, keep that in good condition. So, that is it.
06:15Yes, definitely. You're very right. Sir, given your focus on agriculture and natural farming
06:22and rural areas, I would like to know that what role do you think that sustainable
06:28agriculture practices can play in improving air quality in cities?
06:33Very good question. And in fact, that was the problem. That is the problem that
06:37many the central government and many state governments are dealing with. There was a
06:40meeting also, I think, two or three days back with the ministers, environmental ministers of
06:44the states, states near Delhi and CR, and the union minister, agriculture minister, Shivraj
06:50Chauhanji. And a lot of problems were discussed. The issue of Parali. The issue of Parali is an
06:57issue that has come up in the last 5, 10, 15 years. It was not there before because we had
07:02animals that used to have these as the feed and fodder. And then we used to plan the cycles of
07:07the crops. That was sustainable planning. It was not that everything has to be grown everywhere.
07:14We grew as per the native, we had the native species, native seeds, and we used to grow
07:21our food accordingly as per the environment. Not that we'll grow everything everywhere.
07:26And not we'll see that what is the government is giving MSP on certain things, so we'll grow
07:31that only. So, I was saying that millets, things like millets and things, superfood like sattu,
07:37which is like, you know, roasted channa, roasted black gram. Very famous in Bihar.
07:45Very famous in Bihar. And it's very healthy. And you know, there is a dish that Litti,
07:50Litti you must have heard of, which you can see at many places in Delhi and CR,
07:54that Litti is a very healthy food and it can last for 2-3 days. These were sustainable food
07:59systems. So, agriculture and food was interlinked with animals, livestock. So, livestock, agriculture,
08:06and food, processed food. So, healthy food that was processed, healthy food to eat,
08:11that lasted a long time and people were healthy. But then we started saying that, you know,
08:17sattu is for low grade, like for labor class, and millets is for labor class, and we are like,
08:23say, a higher class, so we should eat rice and wheat and all this. There is a lobby that is all
08:28behind this. And we had tried to create this because unless if people are healthy, then
08:32many lobbies, many people won't get their, earn their money from. So, that is the problem. So,
08:38again, people are coming back to millet, very good that people are coming back to millet,
08:42sattu and makhana, fox nut, and all these. So, this is very good now.
08:47I think the food is westernizing, I would say. People are nowadays eating chia seeds and all,
08:53but avoiding sattu and the food which India has originated. Anyways, coming back to the topic.
09:01So, we were talking about government plans and you mentioned that some meeting was held regarding
09:07all of these environmental issues, which is being faced in the capital of India. So, do you think
09:14any specific policies or initiatives you would like to recommend to government bodies
09:20to address the air quality crisis more effectively? Because we see that meetings are being held.
09:26Take the Jamuna issue, every year, like blame game happens between political parties.
09:33The Delhi government says that the UP government is polluting the river and so forth. So, do you
09:40have any specific ideas which you would like to give to the government so that the air quality
09:48doesn't deteriorate in Delhi? Yes, definitely. We should work in clusters. So, that is how India
09:55was and India worked. We had villages. Villages were self-sufficient. Similarly, we should look
10:00at every village or every couple of villages or some places in the city and combine them together
10:09and see at the source. So, water quality at the source, environment quality at the source,
10:14agriculture at the source, and see that nothing is being burnt. No Parali is being burnt,
10:20no water is being put into any pond or any lake or any river. No waste water, I mean to say,
10:27no polluted water. And whatever water we use, which is like, say, what we call waste water,
10:35municipal waste or whatever waste, we can recycle it and we can reuse it and it can be recycled
10:41without sending it to the rivers. Why send it to the river or ponds or lakes? Why not leave the
10:46lakes, rivers, ponds, aviral and nirmal, as we say? So, we need to do that and it can be done.
10:53It's not difficult to be done and there are like the grand committees at panchayat level,
10:57block level, they are like bodies. And this third layer of government, which we call the
11:01city government and the village government, they can do that. It can be done. So, we should do
11:07at that level. Instead of just being at the government of India level or the state government
11:11level, it won't be possible. Every time we'll talk and we can involve, it has to be a multi-stakeholder
11:16approach. So, NGOs, civil society, citizens of that place, panchayats, then district government,
11:22state government, central government and corporates. Everybody has to come together
11:27and together they can do. It's not a big issue. And in fact, corporates can earn money from there.
11:32Many new startups can come. Many young people can have their startups in the villages and around
11:36and they can earn money also. They can stay in and around their villages, take care of their
11:41parents or grandparents, take care of their motherland, and then they can earn money also
11:47and they can enjoy that life. Which we actually, when we go to village, we think we don't want to
11:53come to the city, come to Delhi back. But we have to because we have a lot of work here.
11:59Yes. Sir, the last question which I would like to ask you is, I want to know your view that
12:08how and what does a sustainable and healthy urban environment look like? If you have to give
12:14a view of that and what steps are necessary to achieve that vision which you are putting
12:20for cities like Delhi? We can have areas, like we have chosen three areas in Delhi NCR,
12:25Mayur Bihar phase one and Noida sector 62 and Indirapuram which is a cluster. And third cluster
12:31is Knowledge Park 2 and all we have, we are trying to work with partner schools or colleges. So,
12:36they are our first partners. So, we form a planning committee after a few meetings and
12:42then planning committee has stakeholders from all areas of specialization. So, maybe 100,
12:4850 or 200 members of the planning committee. Then they plan together and see how work can be done
12:53and maximum work we try to see that companies, corporates, public sector, private sector,
12:59startups do that work. So, once they do that work, you don't have to pay anyone,
13:02they are getting paid by doing that work from the agency or be it the apartment or be it the
13:10community or be it the government. So, they get paid from there officially, that is there.
13:14Whatever gaps are there that needs to be fulfilled through the CSR funds or the government funds or
13:20the philanthropy funds or the contributions from the people. So, that gap should be minimal,
13:26less. And if you work together in a good manner in 5-10 years, that gap can be say 1, 5%, 10%
13:33only. Initially, it will be bigger because that system is not built. So, we need to build that
13:38system. Multi-stakeholders coming together and trying to solve the problems of a population of
13:44say 10,000, 20,000, 50,000, which is not very tough. If you try to think that whole Delhi,
13:49if you try to take care of the whole Delhi solution, one team, one group, one ministry,
13:54one government, one party or one person can solve, it won't be possible. So, we need to
14:00look at that. That way we can look at stretches like Mayur Bihar phase 1, we have Sanjay Lake,
14:04which was a very beautiful lake earlier, we can revive that. That can help increase water levels
14:10also as well as reduce pollution. A place for tourism also for people to visit, meet, interact,
14:15cultural exchanges. When cultural exchanges are there, peace is there, people don't fight much.
14:20These days, you will see people fighting many places. So, peace and harmony is created. So,
14:24all the relevant sustainable development goals and targets can be fulfilled together.
14:29Relevant because 169 targets are not applicable everywhere. Every place,
14:34there might be 90, 100, 110 targets that will be applicable. So, the targets that are applicable,
14:40we need to work in that direction and it can be done. And it can be a beautiful place. I can
14:44imagine in our vision, we already have because we think so. When we see a film, we have that
14:50visual in mind, how beautiful Delhi can be and how beautiful faces, everybody is smiling.
14:57Delhi is already so beautiful. It is the national capital of India. It's just us, the people who
15:03are polluting the environment and making Delhi dirty. Otherwise, the place is as beautiful as
15:09you can imagine. That's true. And people can stay like a family, big family, like family
15:14brothers, sisters, uncle, aunts, grandaunts and all. So, one can enjoy life and everybody can
15:20be together without conflict, without fighting and without thinking this is mine and this is
15:25theirs. Everything is shared. In fact, everything is shared. We might be staying there for sometime,
15:3310 years, 20 years, 50 years, but we won't be there always. So, we need to understand this.
15:38And once we understand this, then things will be easy. Thank you, Mr. Rajiv for sharing your
15:43insights on the critical issue of air quality in Delhi and its broader implications for sustainable
15:49development. Your commitment to building sustainable livelihoods and fostering community
15:54engagement is inspiring and highlights the importance of collective action, which you were
16:00mentioning that we all need to come together collectively to make Delhi a better place to live
16:06Thank you to our viewers for joining us on this important conversation. Thank you so much.
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