00:00Hello and welcome to our next episode of One India special series, where we dive deep into
00:08pressing environmental issues, especially the current situation in Delhi. I'm your host Arushi
00:14Ranjan and today we have a distinguished guest with us, Mr. Raj Panjwani. As a Senior Advocate
00:21and Founder President of the NGT Bar Association, Mr. Raj has dedicated his career to championing
00:28animal rights and environmental protection. With extensive experience, he's here to share his
00:35insights on the alarming air quality index in Delhi and its implications for public health
00:41and the environment. Thank you so much Mr. Raj for joining One India. So I would like to begin
00:47with talking about the current air quality in Delhi. It has worsened significantly. The level
00:56has been categorized as very poor. The AQL level is currently recorded at 352 with specific
01:03regions like Anand Bihar crossing 400 which is considered as very severe. So in your view,
01:10what are the factors which are contributing to this deterioration and how do they interact to
01:17create such severe air pollution in this time period from October to February every year?
01:23Now if we look at it because these are different phases of the year and the moment the winter
01:28starts setting in, we tend to the air quality deteriorates and the more I think about it,
01:38there's no depth of science on the subject. We are quite aware of the factors which contribute
01:43to air pollution, both anthropogenic and meteorological and how these factors interplay
01:52and create kind of a gas chamber has been a subject matter of a large number of reports.
01:59The gap which one gets to see is a gap between law, implementation and what I would say the
02:08self-discipline of the citizens. That is a civic obligation which they should have
02:15towards the rest of the community. Now it is this gap between law and its implementation
02:21and which has to be counterbalanced with civic obligations is where we lack the most.
02:29And the more we go into it, we can easily visualize the factors. Obviously,
02:35the first thing which comes to our mind is the crop burning and the crop burning is
02:43somehow or the other because it's just a natural cycle. It coordinates or coincides
02:51also with the time when the air movement as per Delhi is concerned and the Delhi NCR is concerned
02:58is at its lowest. Because of the lack of the air movement and because the speed of the air
03:04much less even now for the last two days, it has improved slightly because the air
03:10speed had increased was anything between 5 to 10 to 12 kilometers an hour. Now,
03:18that even a slight difference in the air movement makes such a huge impact on the environment. But
03:25the most important thing are the two natural ecological components of the NCR. The two very
03:33crucial natural ecological components are the Yamuna and the Aravali which falls within Delhi
03:42and out here it is called the Delhi Ridge. Now, if we temper and we have tempered, let's be honest
03:48about it. We have tempered extensively with the result that Yamuna is completely polluted
03:54and as far as the green cover is concerned, whether by roads or cutting of trees and we can go into
04:01allegations and counter allegations. But when we are looking at the health of the citizens,
04:05these allegations become meaningless. The person who is suffering will say, listen, I'm suffering,
04:10you may cut two trees or 100 trees or transplant them. Now, all these are sub-subjects which crop
04:17up. Now, a lot of people, number of people I have spoken to, they say, sir, what about livelihood?
04:24You are saying no Tandoor, for example. He's a person who makes some kind of a dish
04:32which requires a Tandoor. Now, his whole shop is dependent on that Tandoor. Now, he says if you
04:39take away the Tandoor, then where do I go? What do I do? This is the only thing, this is my only
04:44livelihood. So, we have got several manifestations which contribute and how do we end up controlling
04:53it? How do we end up filling up this gap which I mentioned between the law, implementation
05:00and civic duty? Now, these are three pillars on which our entire environment depends
05:07as far as human beings are concerned, because these laws are not meant for nature. Implementation
05:14is not meant for nature. All these three components are completely anthropogenic.
05:19They are completely dependent on the human species as to how we conduct ourselves,
05:25how do we go about it. So, looking at it, but just not that, it is your own conscious place upon you
05:34that what I'm doing is not correct. This society where I'm living in does not accept this kind of
05:40behavior. But out here, when we come back to our own country or look at our own country,
05:45we have got a great, magnanimous, fatalistic heart and an opinion of our society.
05:52So, but today it's much clearer. So, let him burn. It's not a question of today,
06:02it is much clearer. It's a question of leaving a certain habit, a certain regimen of living
06:09that this is how you live. Not because the air is perfect, therefore, I can burn. The air is
06:14not perfect, therefore, I should not burn. The question is, first of all, the very basic
06:20ground rule is that you shall not burn, full stop. Now, for example, the ban on crackers up
06:25to first January of next year. I don't see that. I don't see that in Delhi.
06:33Because we are talking of modifying the social norms, the social conduct
06:41of the people and as an administrator when you are there. So, you don't bring about that you'd
06:47be a good man for three months after that you can be naughty. It makes no sense to me.
06:52I just wanted to ask that you were mentioning about the laws and those civic bodies which
06:59could make the environment better. You have a huge experience in legal framework. So, I just wanted to
07:06in India, are there any specific laws or regulations that you believe need strengthening
07:13or better enforcement which could help us combat this air pollution crisis?
07:19I think our country is the richest, is the most richest in the form of laws. We have got no doubt
07:26of that. There can't be a richer country when we look at laws because there are laws on every
07:31subject, on every topic. Though maybe the permissible pollution levels are slightly
07:41relaxed compared to other European countries. But nevertheless, even those parameters which
07:47have been fixed by the law, how many people actually comply with it? I doubt it, including
07:53myself. I'm being honest about it that the vehicle which I drive, which is a petrol vehicle,
07:59it says it is compliant but I know that the norms at which it has been put at is far more relaxed
08:06than a vehicle. If I had used the same vehicle in Europe, I would have been charlatan.
08:11But the same vehicle in India, in Delhi, is permitted because the upper limit is far more
08:17relaxed and it's practical because you can't bring about a certain drastic change to such an extent
08:23that you must reach at the same level. No. So, as for the contribution by each one of us is concerned,
08:30we have to look into ourselves and therefore the question which you put was about the laws
08:36laws are many, many, many and when you look at the implementation and I'll be very candid about
08:42the implementation part of it. For example, I won't name the state. The state formed what we
08:48call the fuel policy and of a certain area and it was made mandatory that you shall use PNG.
08:57Okay. All, I'm talking about of an industrial area, all units which are having furnaces,
09:05blast furnaces or furnaces or arcs or brick furnaces, all those are prohibited. You'll use
09:16only PNG. Now, what happens is and we are not talking of large number of units. We are just
09:21talking about 24 of them and this was a case which I was arguing just day before on Friday.
09:28The state policy came in sometime on 4th of October last year. Case was filed and I'm
09:36following up the case. So, the court is after them. You please implement your own policy,
09:42your own decision. Now, what happens? The government is very quick to take a call,
09:49take a decision but when it comes down to see that a person is actually complying and we are
09:55talking of large number of citizens. We are talking of 24 industries. That's about all.
10:00You won't believe it. Out of 24, only 21 till date have connected. So, I said they are not
10:08connected. Yes, they are not connected. You have issued so-called notice. You have passed an order
10:13that you shall not produce or operate without shifting to PNG. I said even today they are
10:21carrying on. So, why haven't you shut them down?
10:24Yeah, I think the government should take strict action against these people who are not following
10:30it. That goes without saying. So, you have to make example. It may be a harsh example.
10:38When you read it, it may look harsh. It may even be surgical. At times,
10:45we have to take surgical decisions and rightly so because there's an abscess or a cancerous
10:51part in the body. It has to be cut off. No two is about. So, you have to create an example. You have
10:58to show to others that if the non-compliance will have certain consequences. Okay, let's take
11:04another example of this crop burning. Yeah, stubble burning in Punjab and Haryana.
11:17Now, the committee is there. Committee had the power to initiate prosecution.
11:22The committee had the power to issue directions to the government. Okay, you start prosecution.
11:28You should the court come down and tell the committee that this is your power. Please
11:34exercise it. What are they waiting for? Obviously, they are waiting for nothing because there's a
11:40certain political agenda and that political agenda is predominantly controls the political will.
11:47So, when we talk of political will, it is nothing else but the political agenda
11:52of not displeasing a certain segment who may be contributing to the political party or who
12:00may be contributing by getting more votes or who may be contributing influence residents who stay
12:06out in the vicinity of that area. So, all those factors. So, it is very easy. That's what I'm
12:11saying. Therefore, it is like how should I put you take a decision if there's some resistance
12:18to that decision form a committee. Then that committee gives the recommendation. Then you
12:24allow things to cool down because if you say we have formed a committee. Thereafter, you say,
12:29okay, now let's start implementing this committee. When people ask what happened to the committee
12:34report, we are we are looking into it and we'll implement. Then they say, no, no,
12:38some more objections have come. So, we'll constitute another committee and we'll go
12:42through the process of another committee and the most glaring example, we lose everything.
12:48We lose our health, our children and then you say, oh, it's too late. Now, I promise I'll do it.
12:55Now, it's a promise we have. Damage has been done.
12:59So, lastly, before I let you go, I would very briefly want to know the three precautions which
13:06you would like to give our audience to deal with tele air quality right now. The three precautions
13:13please use public transport as much as possible. Okay. Do not opt out for auto rickshaws,
13:20which are non electric. That's part number one. Number two, if you see any building activity,
13:29construction activity or leaves being burned, please report. There are certain numbers. All
13:36you have to do is I'm sure those numbers are very easily available. Please.
13:43Yeah. And you must put it forth there and then that these are the activities. This is your
13:49responsibility. Therefore, it's pointless of sitting at home or stepping. Oh, I can't even
13:54step out. There's bad air. Do something about it. Okay. Just dial a number. You are not even
14:00willing to dial a number. And then you keep on tripping, tripping, tripping and saying,
14:05oh, it's their job. It's a policeman job. It's so and so job. It's the government's job.
14:10Yeah. So these are the two basic things which I think will bring about a lot of difference
14:17as long as we do it. And number three, I feel is, please wear your mask.
14:23Yeah, very important. And use the air purifier.
14:28If you don't want to go out, you don't want to make a phone call, wear a mask and use the air
14:33purifier. Yeah. Thank you Mr. Raj for showing your valuable insights on the pressing issue
14:39of air quality in Delhi. It's very clear that addressing this crisis requires a collective
14:45effort, which you were mentioning from the government, from the legal advocates and from
14:50the community and people they need to feel that they have to live in a safer environment.
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