00:00Hello and welcome to this special discussion on the deteriorating air quality index in
00:11the national capital and the adjoining NCR. It's not a new thing. I know it's not a new
00:16thing. It's not news anymore. Something is that we need to look beyond. What are the
00:22reasons? How can we counter it? What are our responsibilities? Where does the buck stop?
00:28All these things. To look beyond, today we are joined by Vimlindu Jha. He is an environmentalist
00:34and founder of Swecha India. Vimlindu, thank you so much for speaking to OneIndia.
00:42Thank you, Pankaj. It's a pleasure indeed.
00:44Pleasure. Vimlindu, as I mentioned, this whole brouhaha over the air quality index at times
00:54takes the debate away from the core issue. In your opinion, what are the primary sources
01:01that are driving this alarming rise in pollution levels across Delhi and NCR, first of all?
01:07And how can immediate measures target these contributors effectively?
01:13First of all, I'll answer the last question that there's no immediate measures. It's high
01:19time that we actually go beyond band-aid solution to problems like air pollution. And therefore,
01:26we should not focus on immediate because what happens that immediate solution
01:30or chasing immediate band-aid solutions is the main problem also. But coming back to your first
01:38part of the question, which was about what are the main sources? So largely, there are two sources
01:42of pollution or two categories of sources of air pollution that we talked about in Delhi NCR. One
01:47is the perennial sources of pollution, which is basically by perennial, I mean,
01:52pollution that happens throughout the year, right? So vehicle pollution, for example, almost
01:5725 to 30 percent of the contribution to ambient air quality or in terms of pollution is of
02:03vehicular pollution, be it the private cars that we're talking about or the trucks that we have
02:08or other vehicles, or it could be the two wheelers that we have in lakhs in Delhi NCR.
02:16Second main source of perennial source of pollution is dust. And when we talk about dust,
02:22then we're talking about construction demolition dust, and also the roadside dust. So we're
02:26actually looking at Delhi is always under construction or Delhi NCR, there's always
02:31some form of repair that's always on when the authorities, be it private authorities or
02:37government authorities, remember to dig the road, but they don't remember to actually plaster it
02:43back, or fix that pavement or fix that cabling work that they've done, or similarly, the demolition
02:50or construction activities that keeps happening. And the third source, the perennial
02:55source is open burning of garbage, be it the roadside burning of garbage, the landfills that
03:00are constantly on fire that we're talking about in Delhi NCR, be it in Ghazipur or Balasore,
03:06or in other places. And then there are also in Delhi NCR region, there are
03:12there are industries and there are thermal power plants in the 300 kilometer radius.
03:16And these are the four or five sources of pollution. That is the main reason of main cause
03:23why Delhi's AQI on an average is almost 200 to 250. Indeed, now when we talk about every
03:30time there's a conversation around air pollution, the most convenient argument that is put forth,
03:36even irresponsibly by the Supreme Court of our country, is that Parali is the main source.
03:44So we have to understand that other than the perennial sources, there are periodic,
03:50occasional, episodic sources of pollution and open burning of Parali that we're talking about,
03:56or farm fires that we talk about, or the firecrackers that will take place in Diwali
04:00or in Dhanteras or otherwise, these are episodic sources of pollution that makes the situation
04:06worse. But the moment you build your entire narrative of the problem and the solution,
04:12only around the episodic sources of pollution, then you're doing a grave injustice to the actual
04:18problem, which is the lack of public transport, which is lack of governance around dust management,
04:25be it the roadside dust or construction, demolition activities, you know, then we're doing
04:29injustice to in our understanding of open burning of garbage. So these are the varied sources. And
04:36by the way, this is not just in a lot of times, the conversation is of Delhi's AQI, it's a regional
04:41problem, AQI, air doesn't have a political boundary, as in, imagine, in fact, you know,
04:47farm fires of Lahore actually pollutes the air of Amritsar as well. So it's not as if, you know,
04:53we can actually seal our boundaries, national boundary or interstate boundary in that sense.
04:58So that's the problem. A lot of our focus in terms of air pollution governance has been in those
05:03immediate, you know, solutions to find, be it creating the smoke towers or switch on, switch off.
05:10These are mostly PR gimmicks, rather than ecological long term solutions to a grave
05:17public health crisis called air pollution in Delhi NCR.
05:21Well, Mehterji, I would definitely say you have touched upon a lot of aspects which are very much
05:27they are staring at our faces as we speak. It has often been seen that there is a human tendency,
05:35if we can put a human or an inhuman face to this pollution,
05:40we don't react until the problem is knocking at our doorstep.
05:44You have repeatedly mentioned periodic problems, be it Diwali or Parali, which happen at a particular
05:49time and are a continuous source of pollution.
05:52At this point of time, during this year, normally AQI starts making headlines in the winter season.
06:03Do you believe that there's some sense of apathy also? And I'm not just talking about
06:07government apathy, I'm talking about, you know, our communities, our own neighborhood and backyard.
06:14Do you think that that is also something that needs to be looked into and to be worked upon?
06:19Absolutely, Pankaj. So if you look at, you know, in many other countries,
06:24many other parts of the world, when the air quality index reaches 200 or 250,
06:30the cities are shut down, cities are evacuated, because it is considered to be completely unsafe
06:36and unsafe, especially for the elderly, pregnant women and children. And here we are,
06:43as I'm very, very sure the next week, the air quality index will actually be crossing 999.
06:49999 in several parts of Delhi, it's already 450 in various parts and in Bihar and many other parts,
06:57the 13 hotspots that we talked about. But we have normalized it for us as in this is just a number,
07:02when the entire document, you know, the media or the scientific community or the doctors tell us
07:09the impact, long term impact that it has in terms of life expectancy, be it or how, you know,
07:15one in three children in Delhi are actually suffering from some pulmonological disorder or
07:21the other. So your life, your morbidity, and your mortality both gets affected. But we as a
07:28society, and it gets very convenient for the government also, because then the government
07:32doesn't have to really feel embarrassed about it. As a society, we have normalized 400, 450, 500
07:39AQI. So there is civic apathy, there's almost ignorance. And also we speak up or we at least
07:48pretend to speak up only in the month of November, when the pollution is visible,
07:55you know, because of meteorological conditions, we need to understand that as if
07:59suddenly the pollution increases, there's more farm fire or there's more vehicles that have been
08:04brought into Delhi. It's just that because of meteorological conditions and geographical
08:09disadvantage that Delhi has, and, you know, low wind speed that we talk about right now,
08:15the direction of farm fire, and the wind from the northern states, a lot of those factors,
08:22dip in temperature, those are the factors because of which the AQI, which otherwise is around 250,
08:28300. And in other times of the year, the pollution gets displaced. So pollution
08:34displace as much, pollution flows away. So we say that there is no pollution,
08:38because of geographical and meteorological conditions, it is not spread out,
08:42so we see it, and at that time, we start discussing a few things.
08:51I was visiting the banks of river Yamuna from the Kalindi Kun side,
08:57and just as a precursor to pollution, there is Yamuna Froth that makes headlines.
09:03Unfortunately, it makes headlines at the same time of the year, when Chhatt Pooja
09:08comes into picture, and then there is a media gathering there. We also became a part of it,
09:12we also went there. Mr. Vimrandu, let me tell you, I wasn't able to stand there for very long.
09:18We spent around a couple of hours there speaking to the people, the young volunteers,
09:23and others who had come there to take a quick look at what is the scenario.
09:30But what I realized is that as long as there is no constant problem at our doorstep,
09:39as a society and as a government, we don't pay attention to it. It's a very long shot
09:46to have air pollution as one of the election issues.
09:58If the air quality touches 200, I mean, people stop their vehicles, they come to cycling,
10:03even if they have to travel.
10:08In your opinion, what could be the message, what could be the steps that you and I can take,
10:15at least to curtail it, to counter it?
10:45Largely, I think we need to really understand the first part that you rightly said,
11:01that we need to make this a political issue, make this an electoral issue.
11:15This is no more just a romantic environmental crisis that environmentalists
11:22write about and speak about and discuss in conferences, it's actually become a public
11:26health issue, because every second household has an asthma patient or a cancer patient,
11:31or intestinal disorder or gastro disorder person. So when you have a public health crisis,
11:38which affects your overall performance and overall life expectancy, then the government
11:43better take cognizance. Of course, the only institution in the country that has taken
11:48somewhat cognizance of this, which is not its responsibility primarily is the courts of our
11:53country, like governance is not a job of the Supreme Court, or the high courts of our country.
12:00But you know, anything that we see that has happened in the name of environmental governance
12:05in the country in the last 20-30 years is primarily because there is a danda from the
12:10courts of our country. Whether we talk about CNG, or we talk about CAQ, GRAP 1, GRAP 2,
12:15GRAP 3, all these campaigns, even if there has been pressure, it is because of the courts.
12:22So if we have to find a solution to this, we will have to find a comprehensive, collaborative,
12:29systemic solution. For this, we can all, the government, we and you can save,
12:37If I am having trouble breathing, then I can't wait for a government program,
12:46because I don't know if the government will be established in 10 years or not. So a lot of times we say that,
12:51you know, unfortunately, if people can avoid exposure to air pollution, one should do that.
12:58But again, this is a very elitist concept that we should not leave the house.
13:03We and you, suppose we are talking on Zoom, we can do work from home, but a rickshaw driver,
13:09a milkman, a vegetable vendor, a farmer, and a factory worker, they don't have work from home.
13:16Majority of people can't, you know, when the government's advisory comes that work from home,
13:23avoid it, then what will be the financial loss? You block construction activities,
13:28and all the lakhs of workers who come on the streets, and their daily income is enough to feed their stomachs,
13:35we completely tell them that in the name of pollution, you will be blocked from your basic source of livelihood.
13:41So we will have to really look at this from the lens of environmental justice also,
13:47because pollution affects the poor the most. We feel that this is the air,
13:53everything is the same, it is very uniform, it is the same for everyone, whether he is the prime minister or someone else,
13:59the air is not the same, that is not the case. The air of our rich people is different, the air of the poor is different,
14:05exposure to air is different. Second, exposure to, you know, the remedies when you are actually suffering because of air pollution,
14:13there also there is a problem of environmental justice. Poor people don't have access to an air purifier,
14:19don't have access to work from home, don't have access to luxury of going to a fancy hospital and get themselves treated.
14:27You know, there's a ward that's been made in some of the government hospitals right now and last year as well,
14:33a pollution ward, so there are ICUs for pollution, which is good, but again, that can't be, you know,
14:39you don't have to find a solution to the end of the pipe, you have to find a solution to the beginning of the pipe.
14:45Absolutely. In the beginning, we do pollution and then we spray it. What is happening in Yamuna right now,
14:51you are putting chemicals in a completely toxic river and you are hiding it by spraying it with water.
15:01The main problem of Yamuna is the perennial pollution or the quality of water that actually exists and not necessarily the froth.
15:07Similarly, in air quality, it's not the smog that you see, it's the air that is not just necessarily,
15:15the visual should not be the only alarming statistics for our citizens, it should be the quality of air and quality of water.
15:23Absolutely, it gives me immense pleasure, you know, to have spoken to you, to have understood that there are so many people and voices
15:31who are very seriously approaching this and media plays a very vital role and it should be asking the right questions
15:39and promoting the good deeds done by lots of youngsters whom I met during my visit to the banks of river Yamuna differently.
15:49One final question, I see Swetha India is what, you know, you are the founder for.
15:55Swetha is also related to cleanliness and when I was saying, where does the bug stop, I feel that it is our responsibility.
16:03Tell us about Swetha, about Swetha India.
16:06Swetha is our responsibility and responsibility is personal responsibility which is individual responsibility
16:13and at the same time, collective social responsibility talks about both.
16:17For the last 25 years, on different issues, whether it is air pollution or Yamuna issues,
16:24we work on it and there are two types of approaches.
16:2750% of our energy goes to collaborative solution to these crises, which is where we work with young people,
16:35work in schools and communities in terms of finding solutions to many of these environmental problems
16:42or climate change related problems that we're talking about.
16:45We do research, awareness or hand-holding work or exposure work that we actually do
16:50and the 50% of our energy also goes in somewhat confrontation and asking those difficult questions of people who are responsible for it
16:57because in a healthy civil society, it's very, very important that we just don't become status quoist
17:03but we'll have to break the status quo and that's where Swetha takes pride in playing that role of being advocate
17:10and asking those hard, difficult, uncomfortable questions of the government, of the courts or of people in power.
17:19That's what Swetha does through the year.
17:22Absolutely, we have to walk this road ourselves or Swetha, as you said,
17:27if you don't walk on your own, you will fall.
17:30There is a situation like this that until you don't walk on your own, you won't be able to give the clear picture.
17:36Mr. Vimlandhu, an environmentalist and also founder of Swetha India, thank you very much for talking to us.
17:42We end up learning more from you and people like you.
17:48Thank you. Thank you, Pankajit. It was a pleasure.
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