00:00When we speak about technology, we speak about the benefits that it provides us.
00:05But on the other side of the coin are risks.
00:09Technology empowers good people and bad people.
00:16So as we go along, we've got to understand that first we are dealing with technology that changes at great speed.
00:24As I said to you, from 2018 to 2024, we have seen a significant shift in the way people do things using technology.
00:31We have seen a significant change towards digitalisation, the transformation that we speak about.
00:37We have seen governments emphasise on how it is its people must transform, transit, change,
00:44so that they can keep up with the times and of course compete regionally and ultimately globally.
00:51Just in a period of 7 years, 8 years.
00:55But we now rely on legal systems that have been built over 50 years, 100 years.
01:05We have the Penal Code, we have the Federal Constitution, which form provisions of law that deal with crime.
01:17These are provisions of law that were created a long time ago.
01:21The question is, are these laws up to date with technology?
01:26Do these laws provide for new types of crime that we see today and that we will see moving ahead?
01:34Are the laws that we currently have sufficient for that purpose?
01:37When you go to lodge a report, who do you complain to?
01:41And after you complain, what happens next?
01:44Do we not have a system that is friendly to people who have complaints to make,
01:49that is easy to understand, that is efficient and that delivers justice swiftly?
01:55You and I know a lot of people, they stay away from legal systems sometimes because of the complexity involved.
02:04People don't want to get involved.
02:05People say, it's hard to go to the police station, you have to bring a statement, the police will arrest you and so on.
02:12Sometimes this happens because the system that we have makes it overly difficult for people to reach out to the enforcement agencies
02:22so that their complaints can be dealt with.
02:24So when we say it's related to a method, how can we change the existing laws so that we can simplify the process?
02:36I don't want it to be done, then it will be done.
02:38It will not be taken away.
02:40In the near future, we will see the impact.
02:43And I think when we look at the kind of scams, the kind of abuse that we see today,
02:49there are different clusters that we have to look at.
02:52Different categories of people that we have to focus on.
02:56You have crimes that deal with sexual offences.
03:02You have crimes which relate to children.
03:06You have crime that relates to the vulnerable.
03:11You have crime that at the end of the day deals with the three R's, like Wai Wikula said earlier,
03:19which all need to be looked at differently.
03:33I think what we need to do is understand that as technology develops,
03:37you are going to find a lot of crimes happening online,
03:41as a result of which we need to start to shift the way we think about how we approach procedural requirements when it comes to investigations.
03:51So one of the things that we have been discussing at my ministry
03:55is about whether or not we can develop a more efficient system by which complaints can be made,
04:03investigations carried out, and of course ultimately action taken.
04:07But this is still at discussion stage.
04:09I think it is something we need to look at as we go along.
04:12We are going to find that things are going to move a lot faster.
04:15There is going to be a lot more complaints coming in because of the nature of things,
04:20and the scale at which people will be transacting online is going to be something that we need to think about.
04:27So if we operate as we have traditionally, where there is a need for you to physically appear to make complaints,
04:34lodge complaints, investigations will take place and all that,
04:37I think that may be a system that may not be very efficient.
04:43So the question is how do you improve efficiency?
04:45How do you create an ecosystem that enables more efficient investigations
04:52and of course action taken a lot faster when cases like this, cases online occur.
05:06Not necessarily.
05:07I think at the end of the day you must understand that the law is broken up into different segments.
05:11Number one, where an incident occurs, then there is a mechanism for which a complaint can be made.
05:19And of course they call this complaint normally the police report.
05:24And after a police report is lodged, then the IP is open,
05:28as a result of which an investigating officer is assigned to the file.
05:35He looks at the facts and then he decides on the facts, preliminary facts, what the nature of the offence is.
05:42And then he will get a team together that will investigate that.
05:45The team will then call in people for the purpose of taking statements.
05:48They will make arrests. They will also look for evidence.
05:52They may have to go into premises to get items.
05:56They may have to go online to take down what they call postings or what have you not.
06:03There is a whole series of things that occur, that unfold in an investigation.
06:08So the question is how much of this can you make more efficient using what you call online methods.
06:13And that is something that I think we need to look at.
06:15The question of course would be not just how you can transform it,
06:19but also how you can ensure that the areas of admissibility is dealt with.
06:26Because you want to make sure that once you adopt these new measures,
06:30then these new measures are measures that are admissible in court.
06:34Because ultimately if it goes to court, then you need to use the findings from this investigation in court.
06:42You talked about legal recourse and complexity.
06:47You might have all the legislations in place, but what is the government doing to treat?
06:55Because the main problem is when it reaches the police, when it reaches the agency,
07:00what is the government's effort to train personnel on the ground,
07:05the police and of course the agency members who know them,
07:09with regard to sensitising them and educating them on online methods?
07:25We are currently trying to scale what we call operations.
07:29In other words, we recognise the fact that there is a need for us to increase the amount of personnel.
07:35We recognise the fact that there is a need for us to look at how we can train more officers,
07:39particularly the complexities of the law that exist today
07:42and also the complexity of crime when it comes to cyber crimes.
07:46So those are areas that we are looking at and we are going to put up suggestions to the Cabinet on this,
07:51hopefully by the end of this year.
07:53My team is already working on it.
07:55Hopefully we will be able to see some developments on that soon.
08:01It is in this conversation that the whole discussion about how we can make things more efficient has arisen.
08:07It is when you discuss this, questions have been put to us as to whether or not you can,
08:11instead of having physical officers dealing with certain things,
08:13whether online mechanisms will allow things to be done a lot faster and how we can achieve that.
08:21So yes, you are right, there is a need for us to look at,
08:23again it comes back to us recognising the fact that things are going to move a lot quicker as we go along
08:28and a lot more people are going to adopt technology and they are going to use online services and facilities.
08:33In that context, you are going to see more problems, you are going to see a need for more investigations,
08:38more probes and we will need to have not just personnel but also new approaches to solve the problem.
08:48For example, as I said earlier, looking at how we can develop online mechanisms
08:53so that you can escalate and make investigations a lot easier and more efficient.
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