Supermarket denies sending spy to NSW farmer meeting

ABC NEWS (Australia)

Woolworths has rejected allegations of spying after one of its employees was kicked out of a New South Wales farmers meeting this week for failing to disclose who they were.

Transcript

00:00Yeah, hi, Jo. Thanks. Oh, look, it was our AGM for our New South Wales Farmers Horticultural

00:07Committee. And so as a group of farmers, we don't get together very often from across

00:13the state. And it's somewhere where we can talk about our issues and come together and

00:16speak openly and freely. And we were actually alerted that someone had registered for the

00:23event because we do have people that come and observe. And they registered for the event

00:28under a Gmail address. And as a new chair to the committee, I was quite keen to find

00:34out who was attending so I could know if there's maybe some new growers, you know. So we looked

00:39into it when we searched the name. The name came up as a person who worked for the head

00:47of technology in Woolworths. So we were quite concerned, naturally. And at the start of

00:51the meeting, they hadn't arrived. So we thought they obviously weren't coming because we did

00:54want to question them on arrival. But they'd come in during the meeting. And then during

00:59the actual meeting, we did discuss competition. And I don't think anybody, you know, surely

01:07there's nobody still around that would think we haven't been seeing this in the media,

01:11the issues that we've been having with the supermarkets over the last especially 12 months

01:16with all the inquiries that are going on. And so when we started to talk about these

01:22competition issues, and we had people there that thought they could speak freely who don't

01:27generally go out publicly because they have a lot, you know, the fear of retribution again.

01:32So they were speaking freely. So I made a note to talk to my staff to ask them, had

01:36that person arrived? And in fact, they had. So we stopped the meeting and asked, was there

01:41anybody from Coles or Woolworths in the room? And three times that was asked, they didn't

01:47say anything. So then the staff went over to, and quietly on the side and asked this

01:53person where they're from. And they said they're actually from the University of Sydney. And

01:57we asked, but do you work for Woolworths? And they said, yes, they do. Now, she may

02:02have been here in the capacity under the university, but when your full time role is with the head

02:08of technology in Woolworths, you've got to question why she didn't show that's what she

02:14was doing. So we're very sceptical of her intent. You know, we asked Woolworths to come

02:20to one of our AGMs, I think it was just last year, but they declined. So, you know, and

02:25then to have this sort of happen, it's really, it's really concerning.

02:29Yeah. So why is it so sensitive in terms of farmers discussing things?

02:34Well, you're discussing the pricing. And when you've got two supermarkets that hold over

02:4165% of the market share, as growers, there isn't a lot of negotiation there, because

02:46you have to sell to them if you're quite a large commercial grower. So with, and we've

02:54seen with these inquiries and for the last two decades, growers have been complaining

02:57about the unfair, basically contract terms that we've had to adhere to. You know, there's

03:02so much that goes, that's been going on. We've been trying to have, you know, dialect with

03:09them over the years to, you know, helping, you know, with the cost of living crisis,

03:13we're feeling it just as much as farmers and all of our increased input costs, and we're

03:16not getting the outcomes we need in order to be able to survive in our businesses financially.

03:22And so they're the sorts of things we're discussing and how we go about it. And with having our

03:27Coles and Woolworths in the room, of course, there's always a fear of retribution, that

03:30they could turn around and potentially stifle your sales because you're speaking out publicly

03:35against them.

03:36Now, you've already kind of mentioned this, but Woolworths says this was a bit of a misunderstanding

03:41and this person doesn't have anything to do with commercial buying teams. What did you

03:46make of that explanation?

03:48Well, look, maybe, maybe they don't, but we want to know. She didn't identify herself

03:53and by not asking three times initially in the meeting to come forward with that information

03:58and they didn't, you know, we were of course a bit suspect about it. And you can't tell

04:03me that the head of technology isn't aware of the current, you know, environment that's

04:09been going on with, you know, the Woolworths, the Coles, the supermarkets and suppliers

04:15saying how unfairly they've been treated for the last two decades, basically, and longer.

04:22And I understand that Woolworths has made some undertakings in terms of this person

04:25not discussing anything that was aired at the meeting. Are you satisfied with those

04:30undertakings?

04:32You know, what do you believe? When you were lied to in the meeting a number of times,

04:41it's hard to take that as, you know, that that's going to be the case. I'm just genuinely

04:48worried for my growers that thought that they were speaking in private and with like-minded,

04:54you know, growers and things. Yeah, it's again, the trust there has just been, you

05:01know, broken, but I welcome Woolworths. We will naturally send a letter to them showing

05:08our disappointment. We've just had our annual conference following our AGM. So it's been

05:12a bit of a hectic few days, but we will be sending them a letter and we hope to actually

05:17meet with them in person to discuss this issue and a lot of other issues.

05:22Yeah. And speaking of that, and as you mentioned, there've been a number of inquiries into what's

05:27happening with supermarkets and pricing and the deals that farmers are getting for their

05:31produce from the big supermarkets. What do you make of the recommendations that have

05:36been made so far? And are they making any difference in terms of the prices that farmers

05:44are getting?

05:46Look, at the moment, we're not seeing really any difference. We've had the federal Senate

05:52inquiry and there was some really good recommendations came out of that. And two of the top two recommendations

05:59was divestiture and price gouging. And they have been on our radar with New South Wales

06:04farmers for a long time. We like to think that divestiture powers will be enacted, but

06:09won't have to be used or the legislation will be available, but it won't have to be used.

06:13That will be enough for them to really take serious that, you know, we need some fairness

06:19back in the system because there's a lot of growers that are not meeting even their cost

06:23of production and they're going backwards. And we are seeing companies make billions

06:27and billions of dollars that there's money there that needs to come back to the full

06:31supply chain.

06:32Yeah, but but doesn't that have to happen soon for farmers? Is it? What do you make

06:37of these recommendations so far in terms of how long it's going to take for that to have

06:42an impact on the prices that farmers are getting for their products? Because that's

06:46what it boils down to, huh?

06:48Well, look, it does. But this has been decades, decades and decades. And we've got a huge

06:53market share and, you know, we'd love for them to be just tomorrow, you know, pay an

07:00extra, you know, and often it's only about another 10, 20, 30 cents a kilo that that

07:06equates to two, three, four hundred dollars a ton back to the grower. But for some reason,

07:10it's so difficult for them for us to get out of the out of their system. But look,

07:16I'd love to see it happen tomorrow. But these things obviously take time and, you know,

07:21they're in a good position. They don't want to give it up too easily. So obviously, we're

07:25going to have to get the governments to be harsher with regulation in order to pull them

07:28into line and start to see changes.

07:31And so what do you mean by that specifically, the government to be harsher with regulation

07:37and quicker? What would you like to see happen quicker over the coming months?

07:42Well, I do believe that there's going to be through the ACCC, hopefully a confidential

07:47line that growers can actually report, you know, unconscionable conduct and certain issues

07:52they're having with pricing and amongst other things. And that because that fear of retribution,

07:57that the ACCC will be able to take that on and they will be able to quickly initiate

08:03potentially fines, which will hopefully, you know, these fines and they're going to

08:07be fines that are not just cost of doing business fines, quite quite excessive fines that will

08:12make them pull them into line and ensure that they're doing the right thing.

08:16And what are some of the worst examples that you've come across of farmers, the price that

08:21farmers are being paid for something, and then the price that they're being charged

08:26to customers in the supermarkets?

08:29And I guess that's what we call price gouging, where you're seeing what the farmer gets

08:33versus what it's then retailing for. Huge, huge disparity. And, you know, there's things

08:38like sometimes you'll see limes that they're probably only buying for $3 or $4 a kilo,

08:42but they're selling consistently for $14 a kilo. That's just crazy. And what's upsetting

08:47for the farmer is, we could be shifting a lot more product, consumers could be buying

08:51a lot more product of things like limes and lemons a lot cheaper, for example. But because

08:56the price at the actual retail is so high, they're only buying one or two pieces. And

09:05we're not being able to sell as much through the supermarkets because the sales are slower.

09:09But if they, we'd be happy to probably take a little bit less, we'd open the parameters

09:12up and sell a lot more produce. And that will bring the price down consumers and they'll

09:16be able to buy a lot more product. And that happens across the board.

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