00:00Mr. McCormick, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
00:02Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
00:03Mr. Abt, you just brought up an interesting point about the
00:05ocean rising. How much has it risen in the last 50 years?
00:07Mr. Abt. I will have to get back with you on that,
00:12Congressman.
00:13Mr. McCormick. Not a significant amount. Obviously, 50
00:15years. Since 1970, what is the carbon emissions, the carbon
00:20content of the atmosphere? Is it greater or less than what it
00:22was in 1970?
00:23Mr. Abt. Could you repeat that question again?
00:27Mr. McCormick. The carbon content, the carbon dioxide
00:28levels in the entire earth atmosphere, was it greater or
00:31less than it was in 1970?
00:32Mr. Abt. I would say greater.
00:34Mr. McCormick. Do you care to state that, bet money on
00:38that?
00:39Mr. Abt. I will let you answer the question, either that I am
00:43right or wrong.
00:44Mr. McCormick. Okay. What percentage of the atmosphere is
00:48made up of carbon dioxide, percentage of the atmosphere?
00:50Mr. Abt. It is a little over 400 parts per billion.
00:53Mr. McCormick. So 0.04 percent, right? Of that, how much comes
00:57from human beings?
00:58Mr. Abt. About 11 percent.
01:01Mr. McCormick. About how much comes from the United States?
01:03Mr. Abt. 14 percent.
01:05Mr. McCormick. Of that, how much comes from trains in the
01:08United States?
01:09Mr. Abt. 0.5 percent. So we are talking about eliminating
01:130.000003 percent of the earth's atmosphere carbon dioxide.
01:21That is what we are talking about. Is that a negligible
01:25effect when it is compared to nitrogen, 71 percent?
01:28Yes. Thank you. So I love science. I love science. Let's
01:32talk about science, no, not as a religion, but as science,
01:36because that is what this is about. And how much heat is
01:39produced when we have to produce massive amounts of
01:41electricity? That is what this is about. Do we want to
01:46hamstring ourselves by spending trillions of dollars based on
01:49some California code of a religion of carbon dioxide?
01:54Georgia's ports, along with the intertwined railroads and
01:57highways, and I would say Georgia is famous for its
02:00railways for a long time now, are the epicenter of both
02:03Georgia and the southwest U.S. economy. Ironically, Georgia
02:06typically benefits from California's outrageous regulations
02:11because we get a lot of business that move to our State
02:13because of it. However, California's Air Resource Board's
02:18CARB latest rule to make freight rail zero emissions
02:21jeopardizes the interconnected freight rail network.
02:25Meanwhile, the EPA's own study stated that freight railroads
02:29contribute to, what did I say, 0.5 percent, 0.5 percent of
02:33the total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. I already talked
02:35about the negligible effect we began with. As a matter of
02:39fact, if you eliminate all the cars' emissions in the United
02:42States, 0.000167 percent, in case you are wondering, is how
02:47much of the atmosphere we are talking about. Negligible.
02:50Guys, that's science. If California were to receive this
02:53waiver from the EPA for the proposed rule, it would allow
02:57California to dictate the emissions policy for the entire
02:59country at devastating economic impact. What could we spend
03:04that money on? If you want to have a scientific discussion
03:06about how we save the Earth, don't start with that. Because,
03:09by the way, based on a Senate scientific study, Pluto, Mars,
03:14Jupiter are all heating too. Is it because of their carbon
03:18emissions? Of course not. Let's have a real scientific
03:21discussion about climate change. This is what is driving me
03:27crazy, guys. When we have these conversations, Mr. Jeffries,
03:30can you further explain how a California decision would
03:32impact railroads, the supply chain and military bases in
03:35Georgia?
03:36Mr. Jeffries. Well, because we operate a nationwide
03:39interconnected network, whatever happens in California,
03:42whatever regulations in California are effectively national
03:44regulations because 70 percent of our locomotives move in and
03:47out of the State of California. And I should just point out
03:50that maybe most folks on this committee may not be aware, but
03:53we are self-funded. We fund all of our own infrastructure, all
03:57of our own investments to the tune of about $21 billion a year.
04:00This is not coming from the Federal Government. These are
04:03business decisions that we are making. And so it has
04:06to come back from the Federal Government.
04:07Mr. Laird. Unfunded mandates, right?
04:08Mr. Jeffries. Absolutely.
04:09Mr. Laird. Love it when the government does that.
04:10Mr. Baker, in your testimony you mentioned that the
04:12California Air Resource Board acknowledged that their rule
04:15would potentially bankrupt the short-line industry and stated
04:19that it is possible some of these businesses would be
04:21eliminated if they fail to comply. California sees the
04:25elimination of critical player in the supply chain as a cost
04:29of doing business. It's crazy. The Georgia Northeast Railroad
04:34is a Class III short line that runs through my district. Can
04:37you speak to the unique nature of the short-line business
04:40practices and why meeting California's mandate by 2035 is
04:44not feasible?
04:45Mr. Laird. Yes, sir. The Georgia Northeastern Railroad is a
04:48great example of a typical short line, but they are
04:51maintaining lines in small towns in rural America that are
04:56marginal, frankly, that otherwise are at risk of not
04:59existing. And to do that, they have to run efficiently, smart,
05:04and clean. And so they do everything they can to get
05:07cleaner, including upgraded cleaner locomotives when they
05:10can, but they just can't afford this mandate. It would force
05:14many of them out of business in California and if it went
05:18national in Georgia, too.
05:19So with that, I'm going to rest my case that this is not
05:22based on science. It's based on California's religion that
05:26doesn't have any effect on the outcome of the atmosphere, that
05:30there is global climate change, but it's not due to trains. We
05:34don't need to spend we don't need to put businesses out of
05:38order and change everything based on California's idea that
05:41they're going to fix the world with electronic trains. I'm
05:44sorry. With that, I yield.
05:46Gentleman yields back. We'll go next to the gentlewoman from
05:48New York, Congresswoman Tenney.
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