- 4/16/2024
Grenada's Prime Minister Dickon Mitchell gave a special interview to the teleSUR news multiplatform. In the context of the dialogue, Mitchell declared that it is not for any external actors to impose any solutions on the Haitian people. teleSUR
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00:00 [Music]
00:08 Hello and welcome to Tell Us Your English.
00:10 My name is Belén de los Santos and in this case I'm in Havana, Cuba
00:14 and honored to present a very special guest for us,
00:18 Prime Minister of Grenada, Mr. Deacon Mitchell.
00:21 It's a pleasure to have you with us.
00:23 Thank you for taking this time with Tell Us Your English.
00:25 Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure to be here.
00:28 Of course. So, Mr. Prime Minister, you are here in Cuba
00:32 celebrating the 45th anniversary of relationships between Grenada and Cuba.
00:38 What's your view on this 45 years of relationships between the nations
00:43 and the current state of the bilateral relations?
00:46 Well, first of all, I want to start by saying that we are very proud
00:49 of the relationship that Grenada and Cuba has had over the last 45 years.
00:53 It's actually one of the closest bilateral relationship
00:57 that Grenada has had. The citizens of Grenada are quite fond of Cuba,
01:02 quite fond of the citizens of Cuba. And similarly, we know that Grenada
01:06 holds a special place in hearts and minds for Cuban friends.
01:10 So, we are honored to be here to mark this great occasion.
01:14 We look forward to the strengthening of the relationship
01:18 and we have excellent relations at this time and we certainly expect it to
01:21 remain that way. Of course. Are there any ongoing projects
01:25 that you're fostering and working on, taking advantage of this visit that you
01:31 are having here in Cuba today? Yes, there are several of them.
01:34 In fact, we anticipate signing a 4-5 memorandum of understanding
01:39 with the Cuban government later on this afternoon as part of
01:44 marking our 45th anniversary of bilateral relations.
01:47 They range from education to infrastructure to tourism
01:51 and the creative economy. So, we're certainly looking forward
01:55 to commemorating the event later this afternoon.
01:59 But of particular significance, Cuba has proven to be
02:03 immeasurably helpful to Grenada, particularly in the areas of education
02:07 and healthcare, something that I think we all know Cuba is known for
02:11 in terms of its generosity to not just Grenada and the Caribbean, but to the
02:15 world. So, we've benefited a lot. We've got
02:18 Cuban missions in Grenada, both in healthcare and in education.
02:23 Later on today, I meet with several Grenadian students who are studying
02:27 in Cuba on the scholarships provided by the Cuban government.
02:31 So, we're looking forward to signing these agreements and to continue the
02:34 collaboration between Grenada and the people and government of Cuba.
02:38 You were talking about the ties of solidarity between Cuba and Grenada
02:44 and what you were mentioning, the ties that have to do with education, with
02:49 health, are some of the most important ties that
02:52 bond most Caribbean nations. And I wanted to ask you about how you view
02:58 the state of integration, of solidarity between
03:02 all Caribbean nations facing the hardships, the challenges of
03:06 the present. How do you see the state of this solidarity today?
03:11 I think the solidarity is very good. We are having some challenges, obviously, in
03:15 the region. We've got the situation in Haiti.
03:18 We've got the controversy between Guyana and Venezuela.
03:22 But we recognize that it's our solidarity that will allow us to find
03:25 common solutions to these challenges. So, more than ever,
03:29 I think, within CARICOM, between Cuba and CARICOM,
03:33 the wider region, we recognize that we need to
03:37 reinforce multilateralism. We need to reinforce
03:40 diplomatic conversations with each other.
03:44 We need to reinforce our solidarity because the challenges we face,
03:49 in many instances, are not of our own doing. They're external to us, whether it's
03:52 wars, economic shocks, the climate
03:56 issues that we all face, the climate crisis issues. So we do recognize that we
04:01 have to, in fact, remain more united. We need to remain closer with each other
04:05 to foster solidarity, to make sure we can find common solutions to the challenges
04:08 that we face, which is part of the reason why I'm here
04:11 in Cuba. So I was about to ask, you were talking about the need to
04:16 foster these ties of solidarity. So which type of actions do you think,
04:22 in your opinion, are the most important to ensure that this
04:26 happens? Are they the bilateral visits,
04:30 the signing of projects of collaboration?
04:34 What can we think that government should do or could do
04:39 in these years to foster this integration?
04:42 Well, I think a number of approaches. Bilateral visits,
04:45 multilateral fora, signing, not just signing, but implementing of agreements.
04:50 And I think, crucially, people exchanges. When our citizens
04:54 visit the islands or the countries within the region, we get a greater
04:58 understanding of what unites us and it makes it
05:01 easier, therefore, for governments to work
05:03 in our collective interests. So it's not just about at the leadership level,
05:07 but it's also important for it to happen at the people level.
05:11 And I think a program like yours is a good way of doing so. Oftentimes, we
05:14 underestimate the importance of the media in teaching
05:18 each other about each other. And obviously, when we do that, it makes it
05:21 easier for our people to understand that we are more similar rather than
05:26 dissimilar, that we face common challenges,
05:29 and that we can help each other. So certainly, in the case of Cuba, for
05:32 example, cultural exchanges, I think, between our citizens, whether
05:35 it's music, art, sport, these things help quite a lot.
05:40 In Grenada, we recently held the Carista Games, which is
05:43 a multilateral track and field event, and there were 28 countries
05:48 taking part. And so when young people come
05:52 to an island like Grenada from Curacao, Bahamas, Jamaica,
05:57 it gives them an opportunity to learn about Grenada. It gives
05:59 Grenadians an opportunity to learn about them,
06:02 and it makes it easier for us to find common solutions to the challenges we
06:05 face. And it also shows that despite our small size,
06:08 oftentimes, that our people are very talented, very resilient,
06:11 and oftentimes can become champions on the world stage.
06:15 Right. I was thinking how important this, what you were saying about the exchange
06:20 of people, right, uniting the people, bringing the peoples of the different
06:24 nations of the Caribbean together, just following maybe the initiatives
06:30 from the heads of state, and also jumping through
06:34 the language barrier. And that is something that we are trying to do here
06:38 today, bringing this interview to also Spanish-speaking countries as
06:43 well. So you, Prime Minister, you mentioned the
06:47 difficult situation that Haiti is going through, that the
06:50 brotherly people of Haiti are going through. And of
06:54 course, this involves the whole Caribbean
06:56 community, responsible for caring for
07:01 this very important people to this region of the world.
07:05 What is your opinion on the situation, the current situation there,
07:09 and the role that other Caribbean nations
07:13 could take in really aiding and meeting the needs of the Haitians right now?
07:19 Well, we've been playing a leading role in trying to ensure that we can get the
07:23 Haitians themselves to find solutions to the challenges that
07:27 are confronting them. CARICOM has spent an enormous amount of time
07:32 at the leadership level, engaging with all sectors of
07:36 Haitian society on this issue, from the churches,
07:39 the NGOs, the business community, you know, the formal politicians, Prime
07:45 Minister Henri, to ensure that we encourage them to
07:50 in fact take ownership of this situation. We are
07:53 acutely aware of the history of intervention in Haitian society and
07:57 Haitian politics, and so we are very, very mindful that it
08:01 is not for any external actors to impose any solutions on the Haitian people.
08:06 What we really want to do is to play a conciliatory, mediatory,
08:10 facilitative role to ensure that the Haitians themselves,
08:14 with our help, with our solidarity, can in fact find
08:18 a solution to the challenges they face. And I think it's important to highlight
08:22 that this is not going to be an instant magic fix, but something that is going to
08:27 require long, consistent, persistent support.
08:31 And I think certainly at the Caribbean and regional level,
08:34 we are all ready to do that. Of course, there are many persons who are facing
08:40 economic disruption, the security challenge, food shortages,
08:45 so on a humanitarian level, we are quite eager
08:49 to help with the entire community. We've spoken extensively about the need to provide
08:53 food and other medicines and support for Haitians,
08:57 sisters and brothers, but obviously the security issue is a challenge,
09:01 and we are prepared to help work with all stakeholders,
09:04 the international community, the United Nations, to help
09:07 both on a humanitarian level but also at a political level.
09:11 But it's important to re-emphasize that this has to be done
09:16 by Haitians themselves for Haitians. Right. I was thinking Cuba has a
09:22 long-standing – you were mentioning it before –
09:26 history of aiding the Haitian people specifically on the fields of health, for
09:31 example. So maybe we could be looking into those
09:35 type of collaborations specifically in this area besides the security aspect?
09:41 Certainly. I think actually that aspect is more
09:44 important because healthcare, education, food is what the
09:48 average Haitian needs. And so the emphasis on this, I
09:52 think, is also crucial to ensure that Haitians themselves
09:55 are not mistrustful of any external help, because I think when it comes to a
10:00 political situation, generally we respect the sovereignty of
10:04 each island. The politics is really for the citizens,
10:07 but certainly in a time of need, if people are hungry,
10:10 if they need healthcare, if they need education, then it's the humane thing to
10:14 do. And so from a humanitarian perspective,
10:16 it's incumbent on all of us to ensure that we can provide assistance
10:19 and provide aid to our brothers and sisters in Haiti.
10:22 Prime Minister, I would like to ask you, one of the most
10:25 important and most challenging problems facing the whole of humanity right now
10:31 has to do with the climate emergency. At the last
10:35 General Assembly of the UN, you spoke about
10:38 climate justice and how in many cases the people who contribute the
10:45 less to this problem are the most affected.
10:49 I wanted to ask you, in your opinion, how do you value the
10:55 effect and the response the international community
10:58 has had so far to this emergency, and what could be done
11:03 to continue the action on a regional, on a local, and on a
11:10 global level to target this thing that is impacting
11:14 the whole world? Well, I would certainly say I think
11:17 we have a lot of talk within the international
11:22 community, and particularly amongst the nations
11:24 that are responsible for this crisis, even more talk. The action is
11:29 really the challenge, and I think for small island
11:31 developing states, we are on the forefront of this
11:36 challenge, both in the Pacific and in the Caribbean. And so for us,
11:41 this is an existential issue. I think in places like Cuba, in places
11:46 like Grenada, we are already seeing the disruption of
11:49 our coastline. We're already seeing the impact of rising sea levels,
11:53 of warmer sea temperatures, of more ferocious hurricanes, and what it does.
11:58 So this is a situation that, you know, you don't have to prove the loss.
12:01 I mean, when we get the type of hurricanes that we get, the destruction
12:05 is self-evident. Oftentimes, you can't even quantify
12:08 the loss and damage that we suffer. So when we talk about climate justice,
12:12 this is a situation where the damage is, in many cases, monstrous.
12:17 It sets our countries back, oftentimes by the decades,
12:21 because we are made to borrow, oftentimes to rebuild,
12:24 and we are borrowing on non-favorable terms in many, many instances.
12:28 So the need to ensure that those who have, in fact, created the situation
12:32 as a matter of justice, compensate those who suffer,
12:37 and ameliorate the impact on us, is something that is absolutely critical.
12:42 And although it is a long and difficult fight, it is a fight for our very
12:45 existence. So it is something that we are duty-bound
12:48 to do. We certainly need to work closer. I think those of us who are impacted by
12:53 this issue, it's not a global issue, and I think the
12:56 developed world is finally starting to pay attention to the fact that they, too,
13:00 are not immune from the ravages of climate change. The
13:03 problem is they are richer, far richer, so they are able to cope and recover
13:07 much faster than island states are able to. So it's absolutely vital
13:13 that, in fact, the financing arrangements of the world
13:16 are amended to reflect the reality that small island states face.
13:21 So in Antigua in May, Antigua will be hosting
13:26 the Small Island Developing States, or SIDS, conference.
13:29 We certainly look forward to championing, again, the need for
13:32 climate financing for small developing island states
13:36 to confront not just issues of mitigation, adaptation,
13:40 but crucially actual compensation for the sort of loss and damage
13:44 that we've faced and that our people continue to face. So
13:48 it is going to be a difficult road ahead, we have no doubt about that,
13:52 but I think we certainly believe the cause is just.
13:56 We certainly believe that if we collaborate and work closely,
14:00 particularly amongst the nations of the south,
14:03 that we will get the justice that we're seeking, no matter how long it takes.
14:07 As you were mentioning last year here in Havana as well,
14:11 well, the Global South came together at the G77 and China Summit,
14:16 and this was one of the most important topics that most heads of state
14:20 coincided in the need to have a joint front demanding, for example,
14:26 concrete action regarding financing so that it's not all left to talk
14:32 at big summits that also include northern countries.
14:37 So have there been any progress, and are there talks in motion regarding
14:43 this claim? Well, I mean, the progress has not been
14:46 certainly at the pace we want, but I think there are some basic things
14:50 that we are seeing incremental movement on. So for example,
14:53 in most of the debt instruments that developing states now treat with, you
14:59 would see that there are what we call suspension clauses in
15:02 terms of repayment of the debt if an island is struck by natural
15:06 disaster, for example. So in Grenada's case, we do not borrow
15:10 unless our instruments have that clause that says if we're hit by a hurricane,
15:14 for instance, that we can suspend the debt payments
15:17 and use the funds to rebuild. And that's basically
15:21 fundamental to our fiscal policy. In fact, we will not accept funds from anyone
15:25 who's not prepared to have such a clause. And that's just one example. It's small,
15:29 but it's significant because the reality is if you have to
15:32 keep financing debt while you have to rebuild from a natural
15:35 disaster, that's very, very difficult to do.
15:38 We have been championing the use of the multinational index
15:42 as a means of determining rather than, in a sense, GNP per capita or GDP per
15:48 capita as the sole basis for determining whether or not
15:51 countries can borrow on concessional rates. Many of our islands
15:55 are punished because we've made small incremental improvements in the
16:01 standard of living of our people. And so we go from, quote unquote,
16:04 less developed to more developed. And then you find that the terms
16:08 that you can access financing on then becomes, in many
16:12 cases, very unfavorable, or you actually don't have access
16:15 to any concessionary financing. And again, that is,
16:18 in all of you, quite unfair. It doesn't take into consideration
16:21 or realities. And you are essentially punishing a country
16:25 because its people have made the effort to try and improve
16:29 their standard of living. So again, going away from a one-dimensional
16:33 GNP per capita or GDP per capita to a multi-dimensional
16:37 index, we think, is crucial. Within the region, we are supporting the Bridgetown
16:42 Initiative, led by Prime Minister Mir Mowgli of Barbados,
16:46 which is seeking to have reform of the international financing system. The
16:50 Bretton Woods institutions, the IMF, the World Bank,
16:53 these things were conceived many, many decades ago, coming out of
16:57 the European wars, which, you know, were styled world wars.
17:01 And we certainly feel the need for reform is self-evident.
17:04 The world has changed dramatically. There are countries
17:08 who, when we look at population size, when we look at
17:12 GDP, their contribution to the world, who don't have a seat at the table.
17:16 And many of those countries, almost all of them, are in the south.
17:19 You know, and it's absolutely critical to make sure that these institutions are
17:22 reformed to reflect the reality of our times
17:27 and the crucial issues that we need to address. So these are just some of the
17:30 initiatives that we're working on. The final one, the need to really fund
17:35 the loss and damage fund, to actually put the money there,
17:38 and to make it accessible to the developing states,
17:43 particularly the island states, that depends on it, is absolutely crucial.
17:47 Many of these funds are placed in trust funds,
17:50 administered from the developed world, and it takes you almost a decade
17:54 to comply with everything that they ask you to comply with before you can get
17:58 the funding. And one decade later, you know, you're
18:02 worse off than you were before. So that's what I mean about, you know,
18:05 there's a lot of talk, but the reality is it's very difficult
18:08 on the financing front. So that's an area where, crucially,
18:12 a lot of work still needs to be done. That's clear.
18:15 So, Prime Minister, you came to office in Grenada
18:19 at a very challenging time worldwide, after
18:22 the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, for example, and all the repercussions it
18:27 had in the region and in the world. So,
18:31 how do you value the time so far and the progress made
18:35 since that moment? And also, what are the challenges facing ahead?
18:40 Yes, it was a challenging time, but I think it was also an exciting time.
18:44 The truth is, I think, the world and Grenada was no different. Coming out of
18:47 COVID, to some extent, was a bit dazed. You know,
18:50 the world had literally come to a halt and we were restarting.
18:54 But I think people recognize the importance of social interaction.
19:00 I think it made us not take, you know, our lives for granted, not take our
19:04 societies for granted. And so, certainly for me, it's been an
19:07 exciting time, though challenging. The citizens of Grenada, I think, have been
19:11 very supportive, especially with having a new and
19:15 inexperienced politician take the helm. I want to
19:19 certainly say that my team has been very supportive.
19:22 And we've done a lot of the things that we said we would do, and I think that was
19:25 important because you have to build trust, you have to build credibility.
19:29 We now need to stay the course. We now need to continue delivering
19:33 for our people and, crucially, engaging with them. Because oftentimes, I think,
19:36 one of the criticisms of political leadership is the fact that the leaders
19:40 oftentimes don't engage sufficiently with our citizens in a direct and
19:44 straightforward manner, so that we can get their feedback, we can
19:46 get their input on what we need to do to improve their lives and the overall
19:51 well-being of the country. So that's one of the things we are very keen
19:54 to continue doing. But there are a number of issues we face,
19:59 from challenges in our education and system, and the need to reform it,
20:03 to health care, and the need to significantly improve it,
20:07 the need to make our society more productive by leveraging technology.
20:11 Those are some of the areas that we intend to tackle, but also a sense of
20:14 ensuring that our people understand the history, understand the
20:18 resilience and the struggle that our foreparents went through to
20:21 create a society so that we can commit to making it better for the next
20:25 generation of Canadians. That's great to hear. And I was thinking
20:30 this period of time that you were mentioning, both, of course,
20:34 challenging and maybe a crisis of opportunity in many cases,
20:39 was particularly hard for some nations in the Caribbean,
20:42 particularly the ones facing coercive measures
20:45 from the exterior, as is the case of Cuba, where we are now,
20:49 and Venezuela as well. So I wanted to ask you about this. What is your stance
20:55 as a member of - as a head of state and also a member of a Caribbean nation
21:01 of these coercive measures, such as the U.S. embargo,
21:04 that have put such a pressure on these nations?
21:08 Well, we've been unequivocal in our condemnation
21:12 of the U.S. blockade and embargo against Cuba,
21:15 and they're listing Cuba as a state that sponsors terrorism.
21:19 We are quite clear that it's wrong, it's unjust, and we will continue to, at
21:26 every opportunity, condemn it and to continue supporting the people
21:30 and the government of Cuba. It really is honestly shameful that
21:35 decades on, and despite the fact that every year
21:41 all nations line up at the United Nations to condemn this action,
21:45 that Cuba and the people of Cuba are still made to suffer
21:48 as a result of this. But the resilience, the creativity, and the innovation of the
21:53 Cuban people are clear. We stand in solidarity with
21:58 them. We have no doubt that one day this
22:00 blockade will be lifted because it is unjust, and I always say
22:05 the wrong is wrong and the right is right. You know, and we
22:10 talk a lot about democracy, we talk about respecting the sovereignty of nations,
22:14 and so we cannot, in a situation where simply because the political system is
22:18 different, where people have exercised their own
22:20 choice, accept that it is right for another nation to
22:24 impose an embargo or economic blockade against them, if we
22:28 accepted that it would mean the law of the jungle,
22:30 that the powerful will always take advantage of the
22:34 the smaller or the weaker. But I think Cuba has shown its
22:37 resistance. CARICOM and Grenada stands in complete solidarity with the
22:43 government and people of Cuba on this issue, and we will continue
22:47 advocating and speaking to American friends
22:50 and reminding them and encouraging them to lift the blockade and to remove Cuba
22:55 from the list of countries that sponsor state tourism.
22:58 Excellent, and Prime Minister, finally I wanted to ask
23:02 about the coming years and just your hopes and vision for the
23:07 future and the region. Well, I would certainly say it
23:11 will help us in the region if more of us speak in bilingual, that includes me,
23:15 because it will certainly overcome the barrier issue and I think move our
23:17 people even closer together. So I think that's
23:20 one of the things for Grenada, an English-speaking country,
23:24 and we are keen to work on making sure that more of our citizens become
23:27 bilingual, particularly in Spanish since the
23:30 majority of our neighbors, including Cuba, is a Spanish-speaking
23:33 country. So that's on a people level one of the things we're keen to
23:36 to do. We certainly want to have more cultural,
23:39 sporting, creative exchanges amongst our people.
23:43 We need to dramatically improve the transportation system within the region
23:48 so that our citizens can get to each other a lot
23:51 cheaper and a lot more effectively and efficiently. So that's one of the things
23:54 that I think within the region we need to spend a lot more time
23:58 looking at. And then we want to, obviously on the economic front,
24:02 continue working closer with each other to make sure that we can benefit
24:06 from trade, from economic growth and development and opportunities
24:10 that are there. I think too often we look to the north rather than across,
24:14 you know, and so that's one of the things that I think is
24:17 vitally important. And part of my trip here in fact
24:21 is to look at how we can have closer cooperation
24:25 on the economic front between Grenada and
24:28 Cuba. Yes, we've done a lot in health care and education, but I think there's also a
24:32 lot we can do in terms of economic trade
24:34 and development and those are some of the issues we certainly will be
24:36 exploring as well. Thank you. Thank you, Prime Minister, for
24:40 your time with us. It's really been an honour
24:42 for us in Telesur and Telesur English to have you with us in this
24:47 very good conversation. Thank you very much. You're welcome.
24:50 So like this we put an end to this football conversation
24:54 with Mr. Dickon Mitchell, Prime Minister of Grenada.
24:57 Stay with us.
25:00 [Music]