- 2 years ago
Joe Nicholson is joined by West Brom writer Jonny Drury from the Express & Star to preview Sunderland's Championship fixture against the Baggies.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo. We're back
00:25 for another preview podcast ahead of Sunderland's championship match against West Brom at the
00:31 Hawthorns. So joining myself, Joe Nicholson. We are joined by Albion writer, Johnny Drury
00:38 from the Express and Star. Johnny, how are you this morning?
00:41 Yeah, good. Good. Thanks for having me.
00:44 Yeah. So big game coming up for West Brom. Sunderland not as much to play for, although
00:49 West Brom look like they're kind of secure in the playoff places from the outside looking
00:53 in, just looking at their last few results. They haven't lost in 10 games in the league,
00:59 got a 2-0 win over Rotherham in midweek and as I said, got a bit of a buffer now between
01:05 them and seventh place in the playoffs. So how have Carlos Corbijn's side been playing
01:09 in recent weeks?
01:10 Yeah, they've been playing well. I think it's a strange situation because I think the stats
01:17 are sort of like you said there, unbeaten in 10. I think they've lost one in 14 or something.
01:21 But the last few weeks, certainly over the Easter weekend, they've sort of stuttered
01:25 a little bit. They're still unbeaten. They've picked up draws, you know, Millwall and Watford
01:29 and Stoke last week as well, beat Rotherham in midweek. So they're playing okay. They're
01:35 almost getting the job done, not in the most sort of entertaining way, but they are getting
01:41 there and I think a win on Saturday would be massive. I think a win all, but I don't
01:46 think it can mathematically secure the playoffs, but I think a win over Sunderland, they're
01:51 probably all but there then.
01:52 Yeah, as we said before, a 2-0 win over Rotherham on Wednesday night and just looking at their
01:59 home record as well, West Brom, one of the best home records in the league. They've only
02:03 lost three times at the Hawthorns this season. So how do you think they will set up against
02:08 Sunderland with Sunderland coming there, got a decent goalless draw away at Leeds last
02:12 time out? How do you think Corbijn will set his side up?
02:15 I think he's usually pretty similar. I think we've only really seen Albion set up differently
02:20 to the big teams this season in terms of when they played Leeds, Leicester, Southampton and
02:26 Ipswich. Albion were very much sort of soak it up, defend, hit on the break and it worked
02:31 against Ipswich, they beat Ipswich. It worked against Leeds, they beat Leeds. It didn't
02:35 work against Southampton, Sunderland were just a bit too good for them. And against
02:39 Leicester, they just shot themselves in the foot and conceded later on when they were
02:42 pushing for a winner. So usually they're the same system every time, 4-2-3-1, they always
02:47 play a 1 up front. They'll try and get on the front foot, they'll try and play but I
02:51 think against a side like Sunderland, I haven't seen a lot of Sunderland since Tony Mowbray
02:55 hasn't been in charge but they've got decent players. Obviously lack of strike had killed
03:02 them earlier in the season but they have got decent players who can hurt you. So I'm sure
03:07 Corbijn will be wary of that but Albion will, against a side like Sunderland where they
03:11 are on the table, they'll try and be front footed and they'll try and dominate the ball.
03:14 You say that, it's interesting because I was just looking at the game from last season,
03:19 Sunderland fans will remember well, West Brom fans won't have as many fond memories of it
03:23 where Sunderland went to the Hawthorns and won 2-1 and Sunderland actually had 61% possession
03:28 that day. Obviously Sunderland were in a lot better form than what they are now but you
03:32 think West Brom will try and dominate the ball more than they did this time last season?
03:37 Probably I think Sunderland are probably a different team. I think a Tony Mowbray team
03:40 will always dominate the ball. He's a god at our place because we've got such fond memories
03:46 of him. His sides will dominate the ball. I think I remember that day, I think Jack
03:51 Clarke would have been playing, I think there's a few others who really are technicians and
03:56 get on the ball and keep it ticking over and try and play. Yeah, Albion just struggle to
04:00 get to grips with it. I think Albion are a different team than they were this time last
04:03 season. They were playing catch up in the race for the playoffs, Corbijn had lifted
04:07 them from the bottom of the table to top six contention. I think that Sunderland game all
04:12 but killed their playoff hopes I think in the end. They are a different team. He's had
04:17 another 12 months with them and yeah, they're a very well-oiled machine, Albion are almost.
04:23 Apart from like I said the big sides, they will dominate the ball at home.
04:27 I'll ask you now because you just mentioned Tony Mowbray, we usually just ask our guests
04:32 from an outsider looking in what you've made of Sunderland and obviously the decision to
04:36 part company with Tony Mowbray and you say you haven't seen them as much since he's gone
04:40 but what have you kind of made of their season?
04:43 I think the decision to get rid of him was ridiculous to be honest. I think he is one
04:48 of the most underrated managers in the EFL. He's had one season manager in the Premier
04:53 League and that was with West Brom and he earned plaudits even though they got relegated.
04:57 How he hasn't got a job for me in the top division, certainly for the sides lower down,
05:04 I think he's still got that to come and fingers crossed he recovers from his illness now at
05:08 Birmingham. I think the decision to get rid of him was just so poor. He got them to a
05:12 place where they didn't expect to be last season in the playoffs and obviously I think
05:17 they lost to Luton but the decision to get rid of him, obviously the Michael Beale situation,
05:22 all of a sudden Hans will be well aware of that. There's not many better managers you
05:27 can get in a championship. He actually came down to, just after he'd taken over at Sunderland,
05:36 he was a manager for a testimonial, Chris Brunt against James Morrison and he spoke
05:41 in great detail about getting to know the culture of Sunderland and the fan base and
05:47 I think any club who has him in charge now, I think Birmingham are very lucky. When he
05:51 returns I think he'll do very well at Birmingham. But Sunderland are a club that should be doing
05:57 well, should be competing at the top end of the table for me. I know you've had a takeover
06:00 a few years ago. I think it's imperative probably they get their next appointment right and
06:05 get someone in. I imagine it's probably going to be a continental manager given the ownership
06:09 situation there. I don't know if they have underachieved. I know when Alvin played him
06:16 up at Stadium Elite, like West Brom, they've suffered from a lack of a centre forward for
06:22 the long period of the season. But they've got technical players in there, they have
06:26 got really good players, young players that have come through and have established now.
06:30 I probably did expect them to do a little bit better than they have done this season.
06:34 That game you mentioned at the Stadium of Light back in December, that was probably
06:37 one of the highlights of Sunderland's season where they beat West Brom and Leeds back-to-back
06:41 at the Stadium of Light. I just wanted to come on to one player who got injured that
06:45 day, an ex-Sunderland player, Josh Madger, who has been injured since that game at the
06:50 Stadium of Light. He injured his ankle, didn't he? But he was back in the squad for West
06:55 Brom's game against Rotherham on Wednesday night. I think he came off the bench for about
06:59 seven minutes at the end. So how much of a part do you think he will play in this fixture
07:04 coming up on Saturday?
07:05 I'm sure if he does play he'll be gunning for your centre half. I can't remember his
07:09 name now.
07:10 Yeah, Ballard.
07:11 Yeah, Ballard. Interesting, Carlos Corbett, yeah, he did come on but he was only in the
07:15 squad on Tuesday night because of an illness to Jed Wallace. Carlos Corbett, I said it
07:20 all depends. He may play for the under-21s tonight. If he plays for the under-21s tonight
07:25 he won't be involved tomorrow. But it all depends really. I think he's fit. He's obviously
07:31 not match-up but he's fit. He's been a massive blow for Alban. He got injured in that Sunderland
07:37 game and he could be key in the last few games. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Obviously
07:41 if he plays tonight then he won't be involved tomorrow.
07:45 How much have they missed him and who's been leading the line in his absence?
07:49 It's hard to gauge how much they've missed him because he got injured literally about
07:53 two games in or three games in against Bristol City. Came back, scored an equaliser against
07:58 Leicester and we thought, you know, really good poachers finish. Then got injured against
08:03 Sunderland so we haven't seen an awful lot of him. Then shortly after that we lost Brandon
08:07 Thomas-Sassante who has been Albion's only striker really. We had Daryl Dike back for
08:12 a very brief period, he's injured again. So it's been Jed Wallace up front. We haven't
08:17 really had a striker. Thomas-Sassante has returned in recent weeks and bagged himself
08:22 a couple of goals. But yeah, I think that's why Sunderland and Albion's situations in
08:27 the top end of the field are quite similar really. In the fact that we've had to go for
08:32 long periods without a recognised centre forward.
08:35 Another former Sunderland player in West Brom's squad is Jan Amvier, a player who was on loan
08:41 at Sunderland when they were back in the Premier League. Sunderland were then linked with re-signing
08:45 him in January. The manager at the time, head coach at the time, Michael Beale, kind of
08:50 poured cold water on that a little bit. Then he ended up at West Brom. So how has he done
08:55 since moving to the Hawthorns?
08:56 Yeah, he's done OK. He's been off the bench a few times, come off the bench a few times.
09:01 Made a really rash decision and give away a penalty at Stoke on Saturday. Then he started
09:06 against Rotherham. I think you can tell he's not had a club since May. He looks a little
09:12 bit, not out of shape, but you can tell there's a little bit of lack of sharpness there. But
09:15 some good stuff. I remember Jan Amvier having been linked with massive moves to Arsenal,
09:19 big clubs in the Premier League. You can see why he's got it a little bit, almost a little
09:23 bit too eager to please on his full debut on Wednesday night. I doubt he will start
09:27 against Sunderland. But as a free agent coming in on pretty minimal wages, I imagine it's
09:34 not a bad sign really. He might have a few touches of magic that can help Albion between
09:40 now and the end of the season and hopefully go into the play-offs.
09:42 Yeah, as you said before, both sides have seemed to lack a striker this season. Sunderland
09:47 have for a while as well. Seemed to lack an experienced holding midfielder. Amvier seems
09:52 to be someone that can maybe come in and slot into that role and just not play every game,
09:56 not start every week, but just play a handful of games and be an experienced player. Someone
10:01 that can have an influence in the team. It seems like he's done that at West Brom, even
10:04 though I think he's only played four games. But just the sort of player when you've got
10:07 that relentless Saturday, Tuesday schedule that he can just come in and do a job for
10:12 a couple of games. So it seems like he's been a decent signing on a free transfer, as you
10:16 say there. But just looking at the rest of the West Brom squad, are there any other players
10:20 that Sunderland will need to watch out for? One player that always seems to pop up when
10:24 I look at West Brom scores or watch the highlights is Mikey Johnson, who's signed on loan from
10:29 Celtic in January. Seems to score kind of every other game that he plays.
10:33 Yeah, he's absolute mustard. I think this morning he's just won Player of the Month
10:37 for March. He is quality. He came in from Celtic, he was a signing that Corbran himself
10:43 wanted. It wasn't really the recruitment team. I think Corbran had outlined signing Johnson
10:48 and he's just hit the ground running. I think he took a couple of games off the bench to
10:51 sort of get going. He doesn't score easy goals either. He scores absolute worldies. He's
10:58 just been a revelation. I think he's been the difference really that's dragged Dalvion
11:02 over the line and he's just so direct. He's got low centre of gravity. He's good on the
11:06 ball, just technically a very good player. He's certainly one if they go up, they will
11:10 probably try and sign. But yeah, he's one you've got to be wary of. Grady Dungane is
11:15 another one. He's hit a little bit of form lately. I think he's been grabbing assists
11:21 for fun in the last few weeks and I'm pretty sure he will start against Sunderland. So,
11:26 he's another one who's in form. And they are generally a side in form at the moment. There's
11:31 not too many players that are lagging behind. There's probably players you want more from.
11:35 But yeah, I think they're just, like we said, a well-oiled machine is probably the best
11:39 way to describe them at the moment.
11:42 What's the latest in terms of team? I know Carlos Corbran is holding his press conference
11:45 this morning, but Jed Wallace missed the Rotherham game with an illness. Are there any other big
11:50 doubts ahead of the game on Saturday?
11:52 No, I think they're pretty, from what we know, from what the players that are already out,
11:57 the likes of DK, etc. The only other question mark is around Madja. Hopefully he'll be fit
12:03 because it will be really good to see him. Obviously, dependent on if he plays this evening
12:07 with the under-21s. And the other one is Wallace, but I think Corbran was pretty confident on
12:13 Wednesday night that he would be involved. And I think if he is involved, he probably
12:20 starts as well.
12:21 Just finally, before we finish, what's the mood like at the Hawthorns? Obviously, they're
12:27 in this position where they're not going to get in the top two. They're probably going
12:31 to get in the playoffs unless they completely collapse. What's the atmosphere going to be
12:35 like on Saturday with Sunderland coming, knowing that the season is probably going to be extended
12:40 by at least another two games?
12:41 Yeah, it's a strange atmosphere at the moment. I've actually got a piece going out about
12:45 this today. Albion have been in fifth for about five months now and it's almost been
12:51 prolonging the inevitable. And then the atmosphere, there's a section of Albion fans that can
12:56 kind of get frustrated with Carlos Corbran's style of play sometimes in terms of the build-up
13:00 is quite slow, it's quite ponderous. They're just waiting for teams to move or make a mistake
13:04 and pick a gap. And some sections of fans get quite annoyed. And that sort of crept
13:10 back in in the last few weeks with results, only picking up a few draws. But I imagine
13:15 it'll be pretty good. It's close to a sell-out on Saturday, which Albion have had an awful
13:20 lot of this season, which is quite strange in the Championship, certainly in recent years.
13:24 But I think it'll be a good atmosphere. Sunderland always bring a very well-supported side and
13:30 the atmosphere from that end will be fantastic. It'll certainly be a lot different to Tuesday
13:33 night, there was about 100 Wells' Run fans made the trip on Wednesday night. But yeah,
13:38 it should be pretty good. I think the anticipation is there. I think it's just a will now to
13:43 get it signed off so we can just enjoy the last couple of games of the season and then
13:47 prepare for the play-off. So yeah, hopefully it'll be pretty raw because it's the All
13:50 Thorns on Saturday.
13:51 And we just finished by just asking our guests for a quick score prediction. How do you think
13:57 the game's going to go and how West Brom will match up against Sunderland?
14:01 I think it'll be quite tight. I think Sunderland have still got players, and despite having
14:05 a disappointing season, they've got players in there who can hurt you. So I'm going to
14:10 go 2-1 to Albion, but I'm going to say that Sunderland will take the lead.
14:13 Yeah, as you mentioned, Sunderland do have some of their kind of injured players, more
14:18 attacking players coming back now. Jack Clarke's back. He started against Leeds and Bristol
14:22 City the last two games. Patrick Roberts is back now. He started against Blackburn, didn't
14:27 look ready, has come off the bench the last few games. So he's going to be, if they can
14:31 get him back up to full fitness, that'll be a boost. But I was going to go for a West
14:36 Brom win as well. So I think I might go 2-0. I think Corbyn on the side, they always seem
14:41 to be very well drilled, very well organised, hard to break down. So I think it might be
14:45 tough on Sunderland. But they did keep Leeds out in midweek, got a very respectable goalless
14:52 draw there at Allen Road. So that'll be something for them to build on. But I think West Brom
14:56 might be too strong on Saturday, but we'll see how it goes.
15:00 Johnny, thanks a lot for joining me on the latest episode of the Raw podcast. And for
15:06 all the latest Sunderland news and build-up ahead of Saturday's match, you can head over
15:10 to the SAFC section of the Sunderland Echo website. Interim head coach Mike Dodds will
15:16 be speaking to the media on Friday afternoon. So look out for his quotes and what he says
15:21 over on the website as well. And we'll also have live updates, analysis, reaction and
15:26 more from the Hawthorns as Sunderland face West Brom. So once again, thanks a lot for
15:31 listening to the Raw podcast.
15:33 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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